Imagine if Xenagos costs <4 and his static ability is haste to creatures you control. Have Xenagos out, play Rubblebelt Raiders, attack with both and get counters on them.
Better idea:
Turn 1 Elvish Mystic
Turn 2 Burning Tree Emissary>Burning Tree Emissary>Xenagod. Swing for 4+Whatever Xenagos's power is.
It makes no sense to me that a permanent with 3 mana symbols could give you 6 devotion counters, but well, I suppose we'll see it on monday.
Ehh. While I hope that is in fact not how it works, I wouldn't be surprised. They design blocks to have synergy with the block before and the block after. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out those two creatures were meant as enablers for their colors' respective minor gods.
Bleh...
Despite having opinions on the matter myself, I really wish the arguing would stop.
It really is pointless until we know for sure,
as someone can just contradict you until you know for a fact.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It makes no sense to me that a permanent with 3 mana symbols could give you 6 devotion counters, but well, I suppose we'll see it on monday.
Devotion is not counted as counters; you can't remove or reduce "Devotion" barring removal of permanents from the board (Or the printing of a hoser card along the lines of "Choose a color and a target player. That player's devotion to the chosen color is considered 0).
Reckoner gives 3 devotion to red and 3 devotion to white. These are entirely seperate from one another.
A simple analogy:
You have two Reckoners out, a Purphoros and a Heliod. What happens here? If Boros reckoner counts as "Devotion to white or red", then you have to choose which is a creature and which is not. But the reality is that *both* gods are in play as a creature, as you Devotion to red is 6, and your devotion to white is 6. The mulicolored gods work exactly the same way, but rather than having two cards it's one. Same thing happens, however.
In the same vein, something worded as "If your devotion to Red and White is equal or greater than 7..." would count Reckoner as 6. Reckoner counts for 3 red devotion and 3 white. Pure and simple. The two devotions are exclusive from one another, and don't care where or how that devotion is occurring.
soo people( non judges) are saying that hybrid X/Y don't gives 1 devotion to X and 1 devotion to Y ?
make a simple calculation
= devotion to X + devotion to Y= devotion to Y and devotion to X
If yes Then lets see this game posibility: i have 2 BTE ( MC: {G/R}{G/R}) and i control 1 Nylea, God of the Hunt and 1 Purphoros, God of the Forge. Do i have 5 devotion to R and 5 devotion to G ( thus purphoros and nylea are creatures ) or i have 5 devotion to 1 color and 1 to the other?
if you say i have 5 devotion to G and 5 devotion to R question solved . If you say i have 1 devotion to 1 color and 5 to the other ..... i have to say: i think you need to study more.
But it already does. What do you not get about this?
How do we know it already does, nothing counts devotion in more than one color? Two sources can count two different colors and each count the from a Hybrid mana, but those are different cards.
How do we know it already does, nothing counts devotion in more than one color? Two sources can count two different colors and each count the from a Hybrid mana, but those are different cards.
For reasons that I've already stated over the past two pages, which I really shouldn't have to repeat. I think I put it most succinctly here:
soo people( non judges) are saying that hybrid X/Y don't gives 1 devotion to X and 1 devotion to Y ?
if no then do it: make a simple calculation
= devotion to X + devotion to Y= devotion to Y and devotion to X
If Yes Then lets see this game posibility: i have 2 BTE ( MC: {G/R}{G/R}) and i control 1 Nylea, God of the Hunt and 1 Purphoros, God of the Forge. Do i have 5 devotion to R and 5 devotion to G ( thus purphoros and nylea are creatures ) or i have 5 devotion to 1 color and 1 to the other?
if you say i have 5 devotion to G and 5 devotion to R question solved . If you say i have 1 devotion to 1 color and 5 to the other ..... i have to say: i think you need to study more.
Yes people dual gods will be kind of broken with hybrids ( if they are on the same power level as the mono colored ones)
Which is why the Minor Gods requiring a devotion of 7 makes perfect sense; no single creature will ever be able to turn them on (Well, sort of anyway-te gods will count for the last devotion needed).
You guys are really starting to crush my faith in the common sense of posters here. Of course we don't know exactly what the text on the gods is, but that's not what we're talking about right now. As the rules stand right now, Reckoner gives a total of 6 devotion - 3 white and 3 red.
Is this the royal plural? Because what the wording actually is, and therefore how Reckoner etc. should be counted, is absolutely what I'm talking about. What would be the point of talking about a hypothetical hybrid mana ruling with no relevance to any real card?
It's either very strange or very convenient that so many of you are willing to accept the rest of OP's hint at face value, but when it comes to deciding if he's mistaken about devotion you choose to reserve judgment until you actually see the cards. Given that your apparent disbelief can not be logically assuaged in any other way, I can only assume that it must be the latter.
Um, no, it's not strange at all. I don't doubt that the poster's hint is true because the mods have given him a semi-green light. I choose to reserve judgment on the part where the actual wording is all-important. That this confounds you so much is baffling to me as it's pretty obvious, but you do seem pretty riled up about the whole issue, so who knows what's up.
Is this the royal plural? Because what the wording actually is, and therefore how Reckoner etc. should be counted, is absolutely what I'm talking about. What would be the point of talking about a hypothetical hybrid mana ruling with no relevance to any real card?
Um, no, it's not strange at all. I don't doubt that the poster's hint is true because the mods have given him a semi-green light. I choose to reserve judgment on the part where the actual wording is all-important. That this confounds you so much is baffling to me as it's pretty obvious, but you do seem pretty riled up about the whole issue, so who knows what's up.
The gods of Born of the Gods!
Ephara UW
Phenax UB
Mogis BR
Xenagos RG
Karametra GW
All gods become creatures when their devotion to Color A and Color B is higher than 7.
They all still have indestructibility and they have one static or triggered ability, but no activated ability.
Quoting the original post makes no sense. You're becoming more and more erratic about all of this.
Erratic how, by presenting a simple solution to a simple argument? You just said you're fine with the OP's hint, which clearly states that the new gods calculate devotion by "color A and color B," not "color A or color B," hence the bolded words. Since we already know that the hybrid cards contribute both colors in equal measure, there's really no other way to look at it, unless you choose to believe that OP was somehow mistaken - which you just said you don't. As for the "we" reference, there seems to be a number of posters who can't seem to grasp that Reckoner does, in fact, contribute 6 devotion, and it was to them whom I was referring.
Erratic how, by presenting a simple solution to a simple argument? You just said you're fine with the OP's hint, which clearly states that the new gods calculate devotion by "color A and color B," not "color A or color B," hence the bolded words.
No, I said I believed the poster's hint was true, as in he wasn't making it up, but that I choose to reserve judgment on the part of the hint where the official wording is all-important. His 'color A'/'color B' explanation obviously isn't the rules text on the card, so it could be interpreted in more than one way. Additionally, he could be paraphrasing because he wasn't aware there could be confusion. Therefore, quoting his post doesn't make sense.
Just to non believers feel fine:
if the gods says:
^^^ your devotion to [color] and your devotion to [another color] ^^^^
Then reckoner will not turn Iroas on just on sight ( a joke. weird)
If the text is
^^^^^ your devotion to [color] and [another color] ^^^^
then it turns it into a creature.
No, I said I believed the poster's hint was true, as in he wasn't making it up, but that I choose to reserve judgment on the part of the hint where the official wording is all-important. His 'color A'/'color B' explanation obviously isn't the rules text on the card, so it could be interpreted in more than one way. Additionally, he could be paraphrasing because he wasn't aware there could be confusion. Therefore, quoting his post doesn't make sense.
If you think he's credible, then what reason do you have to doubt any portion of his hint? Let me give you a hint: there is no such reason, except that there's no other way for people to accept that these gods are, in fact, going to be enabled by hybrid cards. The way he phrased the devotion portion isn't the slightest bit ambiguous to me.
"Oh, if one hybrid creature counts as 6 devotion these new gods are going to be broken as hell, even though they could be complete jank for all I know. OP clearly must have gotten that part of the hint wrong, even though I have no other reason to doubt him."
Why are major gods worded as "as long as your devotion is less than 5, X isn't a creature" but these are "as long as you have devotion greater than 7"? Or is that just the OP not what is actually on the cards?
Also, hybrid wil 100% count as double and it legitimately baffles me that people think otherwise as Wizards has already said it counts as devotion to both.
If this is all true they better make Pharika as baller as Pernicious Deed or as boss as Spiritmonger since we're not going to get either her or the scryland until the end of the set. Almost seems they want to keep Jund down but still allow people to make the aggro/burn B/R deck or the more creature oriented R/G deck.
(Devotion to A) and (your) (Devotion to B) equal to or greater than 7
where the first option seems more likely, as it wouldn't count hybrid mana symbols twice while the latter would.
The issue I see with your initial wording is that it would require a certain amount of devotion to both colors, which would make the multi-colored gods very difficult to turn into creatures.
the 1st makes hybrid count only 1 time ( but needing 7 of each devotion) the second one count 2 times
Seeing as reckoner counts for 3 red or 3 white in devotion terms it stands to reason Reckoner would count as 6 for the RW god.
EDIT: I also think these should be 1-3 mana gods, seeing as they are "lesser" gods then it wouldn't make sense for them to have higher casting costs.
I highly doubt Reckoner counts for six. That would be stupid broken. Seeing as the Reckoner's CMC is 3, it stands to reason that that would be how much he would contribute to the overall R/W devotion requirement of seven for the R/W god.
I highly doubt Reckoner counts for six. That would be stupid broken. Seeing as the Reckoner's CMC is 3, it stands to reason that that would be how much he would contribute to the overall R/W devotion requirement of seven for the R/W god.
Please re-read the past several pages. Devotion has nothing to do with CMC.
The problem here is, if hybrid symbols count twice then these "gods" are going to have to be stupid weak to not be broken.
We already know they're losing active abilities, and if hybrid symbols count twice there's no way they can give us a 5/5 indestructible for CMC4 that can be flipped on by one card (not to mention that the one card is a card that everyone is playing anyway, not one people are putting in just for devotion).
It means either these things are going to be 3/X creatures or they're going to be more expensive to cast. Either way, it means they'll probably be pretty boring as a creature threat and with no active ability they'll have to have a lot more impressive passive ability than the current gods to be even borderline playable.
I'd much rather have hybrids not count twice and get god cards that are actually interesting, instead of the gods being dumbed down altogether to make sure they're not broken due to a few other cards.
The problem here is, if hybrid symbols count twice then these "gods" are going to have to be stupid weak to not be broken.
We already know they're losing active abilities, and if hybrid symbols count twice there's no way they can give us a 5/5 indestructible for CMC4 that can be flipped on by one card (not to mention that the one card is a card that everyone is playing anyway, not one people are putting in just for devotion).
It means either these things are going to be 3/X creatures or they're going to be more expensive to cast. Either way, it means they'll probably be pretty boring as a creature threat and with no active ability they'll have to have a lot more impressive passive ability than the current gods to be even borderline playable.
I'd much rather have hybrids not count twice and get god cards that are actually interesting, instead of the gods being dumbed down altogether to make sure they're not broken due to a few other cards.
I remember Phylactery Lich sucking pretty badly despite working with any artifact. There's only a small number of cards that would turn the gods on anyway.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Q: Does Boros Reckoner count as 3 red devotion and 3 white devotion, or does it count as 3 devotion in any combination of red and white? Ex: I have Purphoros, Heliod, and two Reckoners on field. Are both gods creatures?
A: Both Gods are creatures. Are there 5 or more red mana symbols? Yes. Are there 5 or more white mana symbols? Yes.
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What do you not get about "it does not make sense TO ME"?. I'll see it on monday, I hope you are right though, if not you're gonna be flamed.
Better idea:
Turn 1 Elvish Mystic
Turn 2 Burning Tree Emissary>Burning Tree Emissary>Xenagod. Swing for 4+Whatever Xenagos's power is.
Ehh. While I hope that is in fact not how it works, I wouldn't be surprised. They design blocks to have synergy with the block before and the block after. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out those two creatures were meant as enablers for their colors' respective minor gods.
Despite having opinions on the matter myself, I really wish the arguing would stop.
It really is pointless until we know for sure,
as someone can just contradict you until you know for a fact.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Devotion is not counted as counters; you can't remove or reduce "Devotion" barring removal of permanents from the board (Or the printing of a hoser card along the lines of "Choose a color and a target player. That player's devotion to the chosen color is considered 0).
Reckoner gives 3 devotion to red and 3 devotion to white. These are entirely seperate from one another.
A simple analogy:
You have two Reckoners out, a Purphoros and a Heliod. What happens here? If Boros reckoner counts as "Devotion to white or red", then you have to choose which is a creature and which is not. But the reality is that *both* gods are in play as a creature, as you Devotion to red is 6, and your devotion to white is 6. The mulicolored gods work exactly the same way, but rather than having two cards it's one. Same thing happens, however.
In the same vein, something worded as "If your devotion to Red and White is equal or greater than 7..." would count Reckoner as 6. Reckoner counts for 3 red devotion and 3 white. Pure and simple. The two devotions are exclusive from one another, and don't care where or how that devotion is occurring.
make a simple calculation
= devotion to X + devotion to Y= devotion to Y and devotion to X
If yes Then lets see this game posibility: i have 2 BTE ( MC: {G/R}{G/R}) and i control 1 Nylea, God of the Hunt and 1 Purphoros, God of the Forge. Do i have 5 devotion to R and 5 devotion to G ( thus purphoros and nylea are creatures ) or i have 5 devotion to 1 color and 1 to the other?
if you say i have 5 devotion to G and 5 devotion to R question solved . If you say i have 1 devotion to 1 color and 5 to the other ..... i have to say: i think you need to study more.
Yes people dual gods will be kind of broken with hybrids ( if they are on the same power level as the mono colored ones)
How do we know it already does, nothing counts devotion in more than one color? Two sources can count two different colors and each count the from a Hybrid mana, but those are different cards.
For reasons that I've already stated over the past two pages, which I really shouldn't have to repeat. I think I put it most succinctly here:
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Which is why the Minor Gods requiring a devotion of 7 makes perfect sense; no single creature will ever be able to turn them on (Well, sort of anyway-te gods will count for the last devotion needed).
Is this the royal plural? Because what the wording actually is, and therefore how Reckoner etc. should be counted, is absolutely what I'm talking about. What would be the point of talking about a hypothetical hybrid mana ruling with no relevance to any real card?
Um, no, it's not strange at all. I don't doubt that the poster's hint is true because the mods have given him a semi-green light. I choose to reserve judgment on the part where the actual wording is all-important. That this confounds you so much is baffling to me as it's pretty obvious, but you do seem pretty riled up about the whole issue, so who knows what's up.
Well then, case closed.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Quoting the original post makes no sense. You're becoming more and more erratic about all of this.
Erratic how, by presenting a simple solution to a simple argument? You just said you're fine with the OP's hint, which clearly states that the new gods calculate devotion by "color A and color B," not "color A or color B," hence the bolded words. Since we already know that the hybrid cards contribute both colors in equal measure, there's really no other way to look at it, unless you choose to believe that OP was somehow mistaken - which you just said you don't. As for the "we" reference, there seems to be a number of posters who can't seem to grasp that Reckoner does, in fact, contribute 6 devotion, and it was to them whom I was referring.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
No, I said I believed the poster's hint was true, as in he wasn't making it up, but that I choose to reserve judgment on the part of the hint where the official wording is all-important. His 'color A'/'color B' explanation obviously isn't the rules text on the card, so it could be interpreted in more than one way. Additionally, he could be paraphrasing because he wasn't aware there could be confusion. Therefore, quoting his post doesn't make sense.
if the gods says:
^^^ your devotion to [color] and your devotion to [another color] ^^^^
Then reckoner will not turn Iroas on just on sight ( a joke. weird)
If the text is
^^^^^ your devotion to [color] and [another color] ^^^^
then it turns it into a creature.
If you think he's credible, then what reason do you have to doubt any portion of his hint? Let me give you a hint: there is no such reason, except that there's no other way for people to accept that these gods are, in fact, going to be enabled by hybrid cards. The way he phrased the devotion portion isn't the slightest bit ambiguous to me.
"Oh, if one hybrid creature counts as 6 devotion these new gods are going to be broken as hell, even though they could be complete jank for all I know. OP clearly must have gotten that part of the hint wrong, even though I have no other reason to doubt him."
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Also, hybrid wil 100% count as double and it legitimately baffles me that people think otherwise as Wizards has already said it counts as devotion to both.
the 1st makes hybrid count only 1 time ( but needing 7 of each devotion) the second one count 2 times
I highly doubt Reckoner counts for six. That would be stupid broken. Seeing as the Reckoner's CMC is 3, it stands to reason that that would be how much he would contribute to the overall R/W devotion requirement of seven for the R/W god.
Please re-read the past several pages. Devotion has nothing to do with CMC.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
We already know they're losing active abilities, and if hybrid symbols count twice there's no way they can give us a 5/5 indestructible for CMC4 that can be flipped on by one card (not to mention that the one card is a card that everyone is playing anyway, not one people are putting in just for devotion).
It means either these things are going to be 3/X creatures or they're going to be more expensive to cast. Either way, it means they'll probably be pretty boring as a creature threat and with no active ability they'll have to have a lot more impressive passive ability than the current gods to be even borderline playable.
I'd much rather have hybrids not count twice and get god cards that are actually interesting, instead of the gods being dumbed down altogether to make sure they're not broken due to a few other cards.
I remember Phylactery Lich sucking pretty badly despite working with any artifact. There's only a small number of cards that would turn the gods on anyway.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
http://tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/73053558247/does-boros-reckoner-count-as-3-red-devotion-and-3-white
Q: Does Boros Reckoner count as 3 red devotion and 3 white devotion, or does it count as 3 devotion in any combination of red and white? Ex: I have Purphoros, Heliod, and two Reckoners on field. Are both gods creatures?
A: Both Gods are creatures. Are there 5 or more red mana symbols? Yes. Are there 5 or more white mana symbols? Yes.