At :1mana::symb:, this is a very nice Commander card (the cost matters less there, but it means dropping it pre-counterspells and hopefully curving into Windfall, Wheel of Fortune, or something similar). I think it also has a shot at Standard playability depending on what discard is legal when it becomes legal (one decent specter, Thoughtseize, heck even Mind Rot).
I highly doubt this is playable in Modern, Legacy, or Vintage...but it probably wouldn't have been even at :symb:; it would have had to have "when this EtB, target player discards a card" stapled to it. Really, this is the best case scenario cost for a casual card: a blast in casual, strong in Commander, and capable of putting up some Ws at FNM.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Considering this card produces both mana and cards, I think you could very easily go off with this one in Legacy. You got Wheel of Fortune and Windfall to activate this thing turn 3 after you cast it turn 2.
I ignored this card for a while assuming that this thing would be at an uniterestingly high cost. I would have put this thing at three CMC. but 2? this looks like you could build around it with something like Wispering Madness.
the discard deck of my dreams may soon be reality!
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a small sentence for you to read while you ignore my post.
In competitive environments it's just so important to force the discard as early as possible... wasting your second turn to drop this could seriously cost you the game and once in top deck mode... you get nothing. And once you top deck a couple of these they will find themselves removed from your deck. Waste not, the deck space. The turn two. the binder slot.
The masses have spoken... and they still sound terrible at magic design.
You will forever be missed Blood in the Watering Can.
@Chaos
He asks if you've played because you named two illegal cards in legacy; while assuming an opponent won't simply abrupt decay the enchant (or counter it if it's actually a problem.)
Burning inquiry with this T2 (via deathrite shaman) is by far the best idea I've considered for this yet. You get a mix of mana, tokens, and/or cards; screw up the opponent's hand, and likely power yourself into a Hymn to Tourach in the same move. Given how explosive that is,
yeah, I'd say it has a chance at being legacy playable; either in Jund, Pox, or in a RB archtype that doesn't exist yet.
I think this thing gets around the drawbacks of Megrim, etc.---they dealt damage, but didn't affect the board or generate card advantage.
The first ability gives you blockers/attackers on top of your discard, and the third ability gives you card advantage as you eat their hand. Turning Thoughtseize into a potential cantrip, Duress into a cantrip, etc. Could get pretty powerful.
Should be interesting to have around. Glad less things are on fire now that it's 1B.
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Quote from Skullum »
that's not what happened at all. kamahl stabbed phage, akroma, and some old lady and they became korona. then korona got stabbed by her "prophets" and kamahl got drunk with a mutant centaur
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
In competitive environments it's just so important to force the discard as early as possible... wasting your second turn to drop this could seriously cost you the game and once in top deck mode... you get nothing. And once you top deck a couple of these they will find themselves removed from your deck. Waste not, the deck space. The turn two. the binder slot.
The masses have spoken... and they still sound terrible at magic design.
You will forever be missed Blood in the Watering Can.
I actually really like this at 1B. I was concerned it would be casted into unplayability, but this actually seems decent. Actually might be worth playtesting in Legacy Pox, Turn 1, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Waste Not + Thoughtseize seems decent, especially followed up by a Hymn to Tourach. Sure, I'd prefer a Turn 1 Liliana, but hey, this provides a solid threat/card engine for Pox.
I just wanna curve it into liliana for awesomeness. Liliana + will always net you advantage now, and (MAGICAL CHRISTMAS LAND) Turn 2 this -> turn 2 lili, they discard land, drop a Bob? **** YES
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
It's a 2 drop that needs to be played on turn 2 for it to actually be good while also being an awful late topdeck while also depending directly on other cards to do anything at all, making it much less powerful in multiples by merit of not having enough other gas to use it.
I dunno, it just seems like a huuuuuuge amount of what-if's before the card becomes remotely playable. The only thing I can think of that it will be sweet with is Rakdos's Return. Not sure if 8Rack in Modern wants this either since they spend so much of their early tempo on grinding down the opponents card before they have a chance to play them, and even if you have Racks down the opponent still doesn't hold cards back in hand since you always have Raven's Crime/Lili/more discard.
I believe you have an incredibly loose definition of "broken".
It just seems like an enchantment, the same cost as Bitterblossom that turns every discard spell into card/mana/creature advantage might be a bit dangerous.
Sure its dead late game or after you neuter your opponent's hand but until then, turns 2 through say 5, you can make a lot of hay as it were.
Yeah broken was too strong, but possibly arch-type warping might be applicable.
I guess there was some hyperbole there. At 2 mana its aggressively costed enough to have a chance at constructed play. I really didn't think they'd set it at 2. Aryakin is also correct though when stating that your turn two drop is pretty pivotal. And if you can't get value from it turn 2, it could be problematic. Hey, maybe its another strong card that 'll slide into some forms of the BG shell? DRS T1, Waste Not, Duress/IOK/Thoughtseize T2. IDK, but it seems possible.
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Liliana's Caress does not provide any form of tangible card advantage. This card does. In spades.
Granted, it is still a "do nothing enchantment" on its own, but at least it is cheap enough that one can push an effect that actually makes use of it in the same turn or very quickly afterwards.
Who cares about card advantage? In combo decks you want to be killing your opponent ASAP, not durdling around drawing cards or get summoning sick zombie tokens. As a kill condition Liliana's Caress is better. It will take cards that haven't been printed yet to make this card into something actively good.
Hmm, quite interesting. It's not even heavily color weighted. It will 100% be an include in Discard gimmick-decks in casual. I'll snatch it up if it's cheap enough. Constructed worthy in standard? Atm, not at all since Discard is not really much of a major theme. Rakdos Return and Thoughtseize is not enough to include it. Liliana 2 is out and there's not much for additional discarding.
If Theros or the block it will come in includes some discard-theme it will be 100% include-attempt in those.
Legacy will not flicker at all. Modern may see Raven's Crime try to abuse this card, possibly in a Life from the Loam.
I highly doubt this is playable in Modern, Legacy, or Vintage...but it probably wouldn't have been even at :symb:; it would have had to have "when this EtB, target player discards a card" stapled to it. Really, this is the best case scenario cost for a casual card: a blast in casual, strong in Commander, and capable of putting up some Ws at FNM.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
It still *does nothing* and costs mana, but it's the best Megrim ever (or close).
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Have you even played a single game of Legacy?
Mkay, thanks.
I ignored this card for a while assuming that this thing would be at an uniterestingly high cost. I would have put this thing at three CMC. but 2? this looks like you could build around it with something like Wispering Madness.
the discard deck of my dreams may soon be reality!
The masses have spoken... and they still sound terrible at magic design.
You will forever be missed Blood in the Watering Can.
In general it's a good idea to dismiss things until they prove their worth. I'm not seeing this card being good.
Every idea has inherent value? Not quite.
Both of the cards you listed are BANNED IN LEGACY.
He asks if you've played because you named two illegal cards in legacy; while assuming an opponent won't simply abrupt decay the enchant (or counter it if it's actually a problem.)
Burning inquiry with this T2 (via deathrite shaman) is by far the best idea I've considered for this yet. You get a mix of mana, tokens, and/or cards; screw up the opponent's hand, and likely power yourself into a Hymn to Tourach in the same move. Given how explosive that is,
yeah, I'd say it has a chance at being legacy playable; either in Jund, Pox, or in a RB archtype that doesn't exist yet.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Everyone doesn't just do that though. And that's why it's fine.
The first ability gives you blockers/attackers on top of your discard, and the third ability gives you card advantage as you eat their hand. Turning Thoughtseize into a potential cantrip, Duress into a cantrip, etc. Could get pretty powerful.
Should be interesting to have around. Glad less things are on fire now that it's 1B.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
I believe you have an incredibly loose definition of "broken".
I wish I could thank you twice.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Yep. At least this miserable contest is finished.
I dunno, it just seems like a huuuuuuge amount of what-if's before the card becomes remotely playable. The only thing I can think of that it will be sweet with is Rakdos's Return. Not sure if 8Rack in Modern wants this either since they spend so much of their early tempo on grinding down the opponents card before they have a chance to play them, and even if you have Racks down the opponent still doesn't hold cards back in hand since you always have Raven's Crime/Lili/more discard.
It just seems like an enchantment, the same cost as Bitterblossom that turns every discard spell into card/mana/creature advantage might be a bit dangerous.
Sure its dead late game or after you neuter your opponent's hand but until then, turns 2 through say 5, you can make a lot of hay as it were.
Yeah broken was too strong, but possibly arch-type warping might be applicable.
I guess there was some hyperbole there. At 2 mana its aggressively costed enough to have a chance at constructed play. I really didn't think they'd set it at 2. Aryakin is also correct though when stating that your turn two drop is pretty pivotal. And if you can't get value from it turn 2, it could be problematic. Hey, maybe its another strong card that 'll slide into some forms of the BG shell? DRS T1, Waste Not, Duress/IOK/Thoughtseize T2. IDK, but it seems possible.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Who cares about card advantage? In combo decks you want to be killing your opponent ASAP, not durdling around drawing cards or get summoning sick zombie tokens. As a kill condition Liliana's Caress is better. It will take cards that haven't been printed yet to make this card into something actively good.
If Theros or the block it will come in includes some discard-theme it will be 100% include-attempt in those.
Legacy will not flicker at all. Modern may see Raven's Crime try to abuse this card, possibly in a Life from the Loam.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
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Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa