A little patience from magic players would go a long way in helping the market settle. It feels like magic card prices have reached an unsustainable level of volatility, in terms of both the frequency of price hikes and their magnitude.
It's amazing how much just stores are becoming the villains when stuff goes above MSRP, despite the fact that any sealed product that comes out and ends up going for more then MSRP will get bought out by scalpers to ebay if the stores leave the prices the same, making sure people who actually want the product not able to get it.
It's amazing how much just stores are becoming the villains when stuff goes above MSRP, despite the fact that any sealed product that comes out and ends up going for more then MSRP will get bought out by scalpers to ebay if the stores leave the prices the same, making sure people who actually want the product not able to get it.
The problem is on multiple levels, but the biggest is probably wizards themselves not balancing the decks properly. Leading to an uneven demand, as well as short selling the first run and not doing anything to counter the scarcity rummors until they have set in.
The real risk is that stores will sell out of 1-2 decks and be left with stockpiles of another deck or 2, then not order any more and as a result they think demand has been met before it actuallynhas for some of these cards. But if stores can order a case of a specific deck that would be avoidable, and is the only thing that would fix the price gap in these decks and make suredemand is met.
I have 1 of each pre-ordered, and am thinking of ordering another 3 sets if the price is right over the next couple months.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
People are selling a few of the Mind Seize decks on eBay for way over the MSRP and no bites yet. That's good news.
Spotted an auction for 4x True-Name Nemesis going for ~1000 DKK, that's ~185$ and would pay for multiple Grixis-decks, even at current prices. Sadly some bites the bait.
It's amazing how much just stores are becoming the villains when stuff goes above MSRP
I think a vast majority are complaining about sellers who tries to press profit out of this scarcity rumor. LGSs is often the first link so if all LGSs charges high prices you have nowhere to go (except at least americans can wait and aim for Walmart and Target) and will be forced to not purchase the product or pay the heavily mark-up'ed product.
Like some have already mentioned: It doesn't cost extra for Wizards, I doubt very much they charge more of LGSs in case secondary market value is above MSRP. So it's 100% mark-up adjusting by LGSs. Some may try to justify that they do it to disable second hand sellers who goes on eBay, but in reality it's just an attempt for personal gain rather than let those dirty speculators run off with the profit - in case people actually bites the bait.
The problem is on multiple levels, but the biggest is probably wizards themselves not balancing the decks properly.
Wizards cannot balance decks based on secondary market values entirely. Obviously they've tried by including Portal cards in each deck which doesn't even secure good spells but grants some "cash" for rarely seen cards.
However considering the print-run for this product, I wonder if those Portal cards will still have value in half a year.
I really hope Wizards will make LGSs able to purchase each deck separately so they wont get stuck with even more of Deck-not-selling #1 and 2.
Strange observation: Jund's decklist seems to sell the least and have been dropped in value to 20€ while the rest is dancing around 23-25€ and Mind Seize at crazy 40€.
Guys, are you sure it's not limited print run ???
When Modern Master come out, every shop get 12 to 24 boxes each (depends on the shop level)
but just today, I got the news, every shops on my city got only 2 sets of Commander each.
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
Wizards cannot balance decks based on secondary market values entirely. Obviously they've tried by including Portal cards in each deck which doesn't even secure good spells but grants some "cash" for rarely seen cards.
The problem is not just the secondary market value of the cards (which only really matters for cards without numerous printings), it is also the legacy/vintage playability of the cards. If they are going to put a new card in that is obviously going to be played in one of these formats, and will drive sales of that deck from people looking for 4 copies, then every deck should have such a card. That was the problem last year with planechase, 2 decks had new legacy staples and sold out, the other 2 did not and were still on the shelves months later.
Time to play "Spot the guy who didn't read the link in the first post of the thread"!
sorry, i don't understand your meaning
of course i read the first post
"Absolutely not. We will reprint Commander 2013 if the current supply does not meet demand."
so not limited, and they will reprint if supply does not meet demand,
but the problem is, at least there about 50++ people on my city each want to buy 1 sets of commander (1 of each type), some of them even want to buy 2 - 3 sets.
but the supply only 16 sets (my city have 8 LGS),
and i have ask many of the shop owners, and all of them said the same thing "the distributor only give them 2 sets, and no more follow up order"
right now, there's an outrage on my city, because 80% of the people who already Pre Order and Paid won't get the product and got refund
note: btw, on my city, Commander and Highlander (singleton) is a very popular format, even more than Standard, thus why products like Commander sold out the instant it goes to Pre Order.
because almost every player have Commander and only just about 20-30% plays Standard.
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
It is impossible to make every deck have the same secondary market value. Instead, they design for balanced and unique gameplay in each deck, and then make some adjustments to keep any one deck from being way over or under value. For example, putting Wrath of God in a deck instead of some lesser board wipe, or adding Nev's disk to another.
In the end this is a fungible good in a free and world-wide market economy. There will be variance and there will be arbitrage. With a little effort I'm sure most buyers can get MSRP, but its nobody's "fault" if you can't - its just the way the world works.
of course i read the first post
"Absolutely not. We will reprint Commander 2013 if the current supply does not meet demand."
so not limited, and they will reprint if supply does not meet demand,
but the problem is, at least there about 50++ people on my city each want to buy 1 sets of commander (1 of each type), some of them even want to buy 2 - 3 sets.
but the supply only 16 sets (my city have 8 LGS),
and i have ask many of the shop owners, and all of them said the same thing "the distributor only give them 2 sets, and no more follow up order"
right now, there's an outrage on my city, because 80% of the people who already Pre Order and Paid won't get the product and got refund[/quote]
Mind if I ask where your city is? I'm assuming not in the uS, otherwise you'd be able to just go t a walmart, or a target, or a meijer, or a shopko, or a *insert regional big box store here* and pick them up.
These are not going to be in short supply. Thye might be for about a month or so, until the second printing gets to the market, but these won't be exactly hard to find.
Guys, are you sure it's not limited print run ???
When Modern Master come out, every shop get 12 to 24 boxes each (depends on the shop level)
but just today, I got the news, every shops on my city got only 2 sets of Commander each.
my city is Surabaya. and since in Surabaya maybe there's only about 150 people who play MtG,
we know each other so well, i know all of the shop owner on my city, and really close to 3 of 'em,
that's why i know about the stock and all.
and even then, i can't get my Pre Order Commander,
because my shop owner Pre Order 16 sets to the distributor, but only got 2. because of that, the shop owner just throw dice to determined which 2 of us who get the commander sets, and then he refunded the money to the rest who got cancelled. then 10 of us, goes from shop owner to shop owner, they all said only got 2 and, of course, already sold out (i go and asked to 3 other shop myself).
and lastly, the other shop i know very well, order 20 sets, and also only got 2.
edit: we have Hypermart, Carrefour, and Giant here. but of course, they not sell MtG product.
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
I'm still waiting to hear from the LGS in my area that said they'd accept preorders... They said they were trying to figure out how much they were going to sell them for which is rather worrisome.
My "main" LGS isn't doing preorders so I'd have to lineup with all the super nerds on a Friday morning and might even have to call in sick at work (or come in pretty late): not very enticing.
Do you have similar issues with other boutique products? It seems to me that the issue here is not with WotC's production run, but the supply chain between WotC and Indonesia.
It may not (directly) help you that Wizards is releasing these in big box stores, but they are. And they will continue printing it as long as there is demand. I garuntee you the LGS will be able to get more versions of it after the second print run hits the streets.
Do you have similar issues with other boutique products? It seems to me that the issue here is not with WotC's production run, but the supply chain between WotC and Indonesia.
It may not (directly) help you that Wizards is releasing these in big box stores, but they are. And they will continue printing it as long as there is demand. I garuntee you the LGS will be able to get more versions of it after the second print run hits the streets.
this is the first time it's happening.
usually we could just Pre Order and everything will be fine like Modern Master, Commander's Arsenal, and FTV:20
For the Modern Master i even Pre Order 3 boxes, 1 each from 3 different store, since they limit only 1 per customer because of the limited availability
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
Yeah just order it online and get it in the mail. Granted I dont know how reliable the mail is in Indonesia.
I don't think there are a lot of online retailers in Indonesia, unless that person doesn't really care about outer packaging and the pamphlets and only wants the cards, and in that case, buying 100 singles can be done at any online retailer.
The problem is not just the secondary market value of the cards (which only really matters for cards without numerous printings), it is also the legacy/vintage playability of the cards. If they are going to put a new card in that is obviously going to be played in one of these formats, and will drive sales of that deck from people looking for 4 copies, then every deck should have such a card. That was the problem last year with planechase, 2 decks had new legacy staples and sold out, the other 2 did not and were still on the shelves months later.
And that's the problem with creating new stuff for commander: It spreads to other formats if it's early-efficient enough.
Within commander True-Name Nemesis is not particularly powerful, no doubt it's still sweet, but nowhere near the top power cards.
For Legacy it may be an auto-include for Merfolk Tribal and perhaps even more.
I don't think there are a lot of online retailers in Indonesia, unless that person doesn't really care about outer packaging and the pamphlets and only wants the cards, and in that case, buying 100 singles can be done at any online retailer.
I cannot say for sure but I'm pretty certain Asia has an equivalent to a secondary marketplace like MagicCardMarket.eu - from which you can also pre-order singles, decks or boxes from.
I'm not too keen about MCM.eu's shipping policy but it wouldn't surprise me if they could ship to Indonesia.
Wizards cannot balance decks based on secondary market values entirely. Obviously they've tried by including Portal cards in each deck which doesn't even secure good spells but grants some "cash" for rarely seen cards.
The problem is not just the secondary market value of the cards (which only really matters for cards without numerous printings), it is also the legacy/vintage playability of the cards. If they are going to put a new card in that is obviously going to be played in one of these formats, and will drive sales of that deck from people looking for 4 copies, then every deck should have such a card. That was the problem last year with planechase, 2 decks had new legacy staples and sold out, the other 2 did not and were still on the shelves months later.
You are assuming they want to have that large of an impact on Legacy. It is much more likely they only want to introduce 1 or 2 cards into the Legacy card pool. That means they are unable to balance them in that way.
Any store having trouble getting the decks likely just didnt order enough product to start with. My LGS not only got an initial order of 8 sets (8 of each deck) but sold them all and ordered an additional 5 sets which will be fulfilled within 1 week of the release.
Something that I do suggest some people to do is to talk about possible price gouging by the store. Stories such as "My LGS wouldnt give me the price until the lists were released" are appalling, and stores who are attempting to do that should be reported to the WPN so they lose their accreditation or benefits. If theyre going to be douches about it and charge as if theyre some ebay seller then they can lose the benefits of being able to buy at lower pices from the official distributors in the first place.
this is the first time it's happening.
usually we could just Pre Order and everything will be fine like Modern Master, Commander's Arsenal, and FTV:20
If you were able to get CA there, I wouldn't worry too much.
We already know the print run is going to be much, *much* bigger than CA was.
The initial print run/shipments may not be very big,
but they have every intention of correcting it.
I know it isn't ideal, but if you wait a month or so,
it should be a lot easier to find.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Or people could stop flipping out about it and being in "OMG NEED IT NOW" mode and wait to get it a couple of weeks after release and the initial rush when they are likely to be sitting on shelves.
Yeah just order it online and get it in the mail. Granted I dont know how reliable the mail is in Indonesia.
yeah, sadly there is no online retailer in Indonesia,
and i also can't order from Starcitygames since wotc have a policy of "not allowed to sell sealed product to outside of US"
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
Does that about sum things up?
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Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
The problem is on multiple levels, but the biggest is probably wizards themselves not balancing the decks properly. Leading to an uneven demand, as well as short selling the first run and not doing anything to counter the scarcity rummors until they have set in.
The real risk is that stores will sell out of 1-2 decks and be left with stockpiles of another deck or 2, then not order any more and as a result they think demand has been met before it actuallynhas for some of these cards. But if stores can order a case of a specific deck that would be avoidable, and is the only thing that would fix the price gap in these decks and make suredemand is met.
I have 1 of each pre-ordered, and am thinking of ordering another 3 sets if the price is right over the next couple months.
Or is it possible future print runs will adjust by sending more Mind Seizes?
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I think a vast majority are complaining about sellers who tries to press profit out of this scarcity rumor. LGSs is often the first link so if all LGSs charges high prices you have nowhere to go (except at least americans can wait and aim for Walmart and Target) and will be forced to not purchase the product or pay the heavily mark-up'ed product.
Like some have already mentioned: It doesn't cost extra for Wizards, I doubt very much they charge more of LGSs in case secondary market value is above MSRP. So it's 100% mark-up adjusting by LGSs. Some may try to justify that they do it to disable second hand sellers who goes on eBay, but in reality it's just an attempt for personal gain rather than let those dirty speculators run off with the profit - in case people actually bites the bait.
Wizards cannot balance decks based on secondary market values entirely. Obviously they've tried by including Portal cards in each deck which doesn't even secure good spells but grants some "cash" for rarely seen cards.
However considering the print-run for this product, I wonder if those Portal cards will still have value in half a year.
I really hope Wizards will make LGSs able to purchase each deck separately so they wont get stuck with even more of Deck-not-selling #1 and 2.
Strange observation: Jund's decklist seems to sell the least and have been dropped in value to 20€ while the rest is dancing around 23-25€ and Mind Seize at crazy 40€.
When Modern Master come out, every shop get 12 to 24 boxes each (depends on the shop level)
but just today, I got the news, every shops on my city got only 2 sets of Commander each.
sorry, i don't understand your meaning
of course i read the first post
"Absolutely not. We will reprint Commander 2013 if the current supply does not meet demand."
so not limited, and they will reprint if supply does not meet demand,
but the problem is, at least there about 50++ people on my city each want to buy 1 sets of commander (1 of each type), some of them even want to buy 2 - 3 sets.
but the supply only 16 sets (my city have 8 LGS),
and i have ask many of the shop owners, and all of them said the same thing
"the distributor only give them 2 sets, and no more follow up order"
right now, there's an outrage on my city, because 80% of the people who already Pre Order and Paid won't get the product and got refund
note: btw, on my city, Commander and Highlander (singleton) is a very popular format, even more than Standard, thus why products like Commander sold out the instant it goes to Pre Order.
because almost every player have Commander and only just about 20-30% plays Standard.
In the end this is a fungible good in a free and world-wide market economy. There will be variance and there will be arbitrage. With a little effort I'm sure most buyers can get MSRP, but its nobody's "fault" if you can't - its just the way the world works.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
right now, there's an outrage on my city, because 80% of the people who already Pre Order and Paid won't get the product and got refund[/quote]
Mind if I ask where your city is? I'm assuming not in the uS, otherwise you'd be able to just go t a walmart, or a target, or a meijer, or a shopko, or a *insert regional big box store here* and pick them up.
These are not going to be in short supply. Thye might be for about a month or so, until the second printing gets to the market, but these won't be exactly hard to find.
Where did you get this news? What city?
my city is Surabaya. and since in Surabaya maybe there's only about 150 people who play MtG,
we know each other so well, i know all of the shop owner on my city, and really close to 3 of 'em,
that's why i know about the stock and all.
and even then, i can't get my Pre Order Commander,
because my shop owner Pre Order 16 sets to the distributor, but only got 2. because of that, the shop owner just throw dice to determined which 2 of us who get the commander sets, and then he refunded the money to the rest who got cancelled. then 10 of us, goes from shop owner to shop owner, they all said only got 2 and, of course, already sold out (i go and asked to 3 other shop myself).
and lastly, the other shop i know very well, order 20 sets, and also only got 2.
edit: we have Hypermart, Carrefour, and Giant here. but of course, they not sell MtG product.
My "main" LGS isn't doing preorders so I'd have to lineup with all the super nerds on a Friday morning and might even have to call in sick at work (or come in pretty late): not very enticing.
I just hope Walmart gets them quickly
Do you have similar issues with other boutique products? It seems to me that the issue here is not with WotC's production run, but the supply chain between WotC and Indonesia.
It may not (directly) help you that Wizards is releasing these in big box stores, but they are. And they will continue printing it as long as there is demand. I garuntee you the LGS will be able to get more versions of it after the second print run hits the streets.
this is the first time it's happening.
usually we could just Pre Order and everything will be fine like Modern Master, Commander's Arsenal, and FTV:20
For the Modern Master i even Pre Order 3 boxes, 1 each from 3 different store, since they limit only 1 per customer because of the limited availability
I don't think there are a lot of online retailers in Indonesia, unless that person doesn't really care about outer packaging and the pamphlets and only wants the cards, and in that case, buying 100 singles can be done at any online retailer.
Within commander True-Name Nemesis is not particularly powerful, no doubt it's still sweet, but nowhere near the top power cards.
For Legacy it may be an auto-include for Merfolk Tribal and perhaps even more.
I cannot say for sure but I'm pretty certain Asia has an equivalent to a secondary marketplace like MagicCardMarket.eu - from which you can also pre-order singles, decks or boxes from.
I'm not too keen about MCM.eu's shipping policy but it wouldn't surprise me if they could ship to Indonesia.
You are assuming they want to have that large of an impact on Legacy. It is much more likely they only want to introduce 1 or 2 cards into the Legacy card pool. That means they are unable to balance them in that way.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Something that I do suggest some people to do is to talk about possible price gouging by the store. Stories such as "My LGS wouldnt give me the price until the lists were released" are appalling, and stores who are attempting to do that should be reported to the WPN so they lose their accreditation or benefits. If theyre going to be douches about it and charge as if theyre some ebay seller then they can lose the benefits of being able to buy at lower pices from the official distributors in the first place.
If you were able to get CA there, I wouldn't worry too much.
We already know the print run is going to be much, *much* bigger than CA was.
The initial print run/shipments may not be very big,
but they have every intention of correcting it.
I know it isn't ideal, but if you wait a month or so,
it should be a lot easier to find.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
yeah, sadly there is no online retailer in Indonesia,
and i also can't order from Starcitygames since wotc have a policy of "not allowed to sell sealed product to outside of US"