Firstly - The distribution hasn't been revealed for the p9. Notice the very specific wording of the statement " 1 premium foil card (any rarity, including the extremely rare premium foil Power Nine card)". Unless the p9 are only available foiled, this suggests they are in the normal distribution. But we don't know.
Secondly - Wizards have previously stated that they want the p9 to be special and if possible a class above mythic as those cards should be as rare as they are in real life (within reason). While I would like to be able to use these cards online I do agree that it would feel very strange for them to be more common and cheaper than cards like fow and rishadan port (assuming they aren't in vintage masters)
Um, no, actually it says "1 premium foil card (any rarity, including the extremely rare premium foil Power Nine card), OR 1 Power Nine card." That means that the normal P9 cards are competing with foils rather than with other rares/mythics. This could mean they're more or less common than a mythic, we don't know, but it certainly means they aren't mixed in with the normal cards.
The second point makes no sense. They consider the secondary market, even though they shouldn't, so real life is different. There is no secondary market for the P9 on MTGO because they don't exist. There's no reason to make them scarcer than other cards if they're trying to get more people to play the format.
Plenty do and SCG is promoting/posting videos of pros/staff playing on there. Online magic is a great way to test. Due to the speed and availability. They actually make more money then paper in regards to scale. yes, you can care less - good for you. Times are changing. yes it is a pain to buy 2 collections. It is not for everyone.
Unfortunately for paper magic, there will come a time when printing vast amounts of cardboard and shipping it across the globe becomes very expensive and wizards stops doing it.
You may be right about the first part, I forgot the super secret tech of reading everything! It could also be read that the p9 appearing in the foil slot could be in addition to the other slot, similar to the gtc/rtr lands in the gate slot in dragon maze. But I would say that you're probably correct.
The source for the second point is this article which is a community cup competitor's q+a with Worth (head of mtgo and the source of all shuffler problems) and other big wigs - http://puremtgo.com/articles/ars-arcanum-community-cup
Wotc also said the same in the article talking about power 9 coming online last year. I'll try and link that. Like I said I'm not totally sure if this is the right way to go but I can understand their aim.
I didn't say you were wrong that they said it, I said that it makes no sense. I don't understand their aim at all. It's idiotic if they're trying to get people to play the format.
Unfortunately for paper magic, there will come a time when printing vast amounts of cardboard and shipping it across the globe becomes very expensive and wizards stops doing it.
As much as I love playing with the cards IRL, I must agree. I see a day when there will only be digital Magic. It could be 10 years from now, maybe 20 years, but I can see a day when the logistics involved with paper become "a thing of the past." I don't mean this is something I want because the face to face game play at a store cannot come close to the cold and impersonal digital play, but I can see it happening.
On topic: I mostly play online and this is just plain awesome. I pulled a phantom Black Lotus in Cube play and that was a lot of fun.
Wow...people are really mad that this isn't coming to paper Magic? Time to poke holes in every argument idiots have thrown up.
Ok! Let's say tomorrow, Wizards says this is coming to your local game store, in the flesh, paper Vintage Masters packs. You will *not* be able to buy *any* of these at what...$6.99 is the price? Wizards can only suggest a price (The S in MSRP), more of these cards will be printed, yes, but they will still be extremely expensive. You won't be able to buy $700 for $7 lol.
And that brings us to point two, the reserved list. People actually want them to break it? Guess you can never take WotC at their word again. When a company promises something, I expect them to keep it. Otherwise *every single person* who owns an expensive card is screwed over.
But let's forgo that conclusion, let's say everyone who owns power, dual lands, whatever, is ok with them reprinting these cards in future sets. Wait, they'll never be in future sets, development is still an issue for standard. You won't see any old, powerful cards in there.
So this puts them in supplemental products. FTV: Dual lands, all the Moxen in this years commander product. *Again* the price of these things would shoot up extremely, putting them out of reach of the casual player. (A player, by the way, that has no need for such powerful cards.)
Players like most of the people ITT are extremely entitled. Just because you bought into a Theros draft and own a horrible Commander deck doesn't mean you deserve to own a full set of duals and power. So many businesses (Including WotC themselves) live and die on this game, throwing it's economy into chaos just so you can own cards you have no business playing is being selfish.
I'm not too excited for Vintage Masters, I don't play Magic online. But I'll probably shanghai a friend who does into letting me draft with him if the environments looks fun enough.
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Whenever someone claims to hate blue I automatically assume they're a bad player.
And that brings us to point two, the reserved list. People actually want them to break it? Guess you can never take WotC at their word again. When a company promises something, I expect them to keep it. Otherwise *every single person* who owns an expensive card is screwed over.
I own duals and could give two sh!ts if they reprint the cards and allowed me to play a format I love more than just once a month....
Unfortunately for paper magic, there will come a time when printing vast amounts of cardboard and shipping it across the globe becomes very expensive and wizards stops doing it.
You're kidding right? Like, seriously? You think shipping costs are going to stop WotC from making paper magic cards? If WotC stops producing paper cards I don't know about you but I'd abandon ship immediately and sell my whole collection because if magic is digital only like solforge, hearthstone, hex, etc. etc. I see no reason why I should play it when the magic online client sucks ass.
Extremely excited for this set. I assume they'll be putting dual lands in here, LED, FoW, mana drain, etc. etc. and that is AWESOME for the eternal scene on magic online. I'm also excited for what the limited environment will look like. Yawgmoth's will seems like it will be a shoe in. Wonder what else will be. Can't wait for this to come out.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Remember that time anecdotal evidence was accepted as worth anything in any argument...ever?
Yeah me neither.
Remember that time a company made a bad decision and made an even worse one for a small minority that doesn't add value to the community or game? The people that try to defend it are idiots.
Remember that time anecdotal evidence was accepted as worth anything in any argument...ever?
Yeah me neither.
You say that *every single person* who owns an expensive card is screwed over. Some people actually, shockingly, ENJOY playing this game and would rather not have binders full of cards collecting dust and bragging about what they have collected. I'm not the only one. Even if I was, though, that negates your claim that *every single person* is screwed because the enjoyment for me comes from playing; if duals, FOW, Mana Drains, all become worthless tomorrow whatever. I'm not going to cry over it.
Extremely excited for this set. I assume they'll be putting dual lands in here, LED, FoW, mana drain, etc. etc. and that is AWESOME for the eternal scene on magic online.
I wouldn't assume that. Power by itself is enough to sell this. Putting all those in here as well reduces their potential to monetize them in the future.
If their primary goal were actually to make Vintage more accessible, Power would just be normal mythics.
Wow...people are really mad that this isn't coming to paper Magic? Time to poke holes in every argument idiots have thrown up.
Ok! Let's say tomorrow, Wizards says this is coming to your local game store, in the flesh, paper Vintage Masters packs. You will *not* be able to buy *any* of these at what...$6.99 is the price? Wizards can only suggest a price (The S in MSRP), more of these cards will be printed, yes, but they will still be extremely expensive. You won't be able to buy $700 for $7 lol.
And that brings us to point two, the reserved list. People actually want them to break it? Guess you can never take WotC at their word again. When a company promises something, I expect them to keep it. Otherwise *every single person* who owns an expensive card is screwed over.
But let's forgo that conclusion, let's say everyone who owns power, dual lands, whatever, is ok with them reprinting these cards in future sets. Wait, they'll never be in future sets, development is still an issue for standard. You won't see any old, powerful cards in there.
So this puts them in supplemental products. FTV: Dual lands, all the Moxen in this years commander product. *Again* the price of these things would shoot up extremely, putting them out of reach of the casual player. (A player, by the way, that has no need for such powerful cards.)
Players like most of the people ITT are extremely entitled. Just because you bought into a Theros draft and own a horrible Commander deck doesn't mean you deserve to own a full set of duals and power. So many businesses (Including WotC themselves) live and die on this game, throwing it's economy into chaos just so you can own cards you have no business playing is being selfish.
I'm not too excited for Vintage Masters, I don't play Magic online. But I'll probably shanghai a friend who does into letting me draft with him if the environments looks fun enough.
And what about players like me who own Power and just want a few other people to play Vintage with? I wouldn't want my duals or power to lose its value completely, but I'd like it to be more accessible to others so that my friends who are willing to drop the money on a Legacy deck wouldn't shy away so hard from dropping money on a Vintage deck, both in terms of how expensive it is and in terms of how hard it is to find people to play with.
I don't play on MODO, and some decks aren't even playable there due to the lack of short cuts, so this product isn't super relevant to me. Please do consider the opinion of people who own these cards, and not just what you believe it is.
You say that *every single person* who owns an expensive card is screwed over. Some people actually, shockingly, ENJOY playing this game and would rather not have binders full of cards collecting dust and bragging about what they have collected. I'm not the only one. Even if I was, though, that negates your claim that *every single person* is screwed because the enjoyment for me comes from playing; if duals, FOW, Mana Drains, all become worthless tomorrow whatever. I'm not going to cry over it.
By losing money, a substantial amount, they've been screwed over. They might enjoy it, but they've lost plenty of value nonetheless.
Remember that time a company made a bad decision and made an even worse one for a small minority that doesn't add value to the community or game? The people that try to defend it are idiots.
I think you quite underestimate how large the group of people who support the reserved list is. The idiots who just want everything handed to them are far more vocal than their opposition.
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Whenever someone claims to hate blue I automatically assume they're a bad player.
This is a totally rad idea. I doubt I'd invest more than a single event or two's worth of money into it, but it definitely peaks my interest. After all, who doesn't love casting Time Walk?
I wouldn't assume that. Power by itself is enough to sell this. Putting all those in here as well reduces their potential to monetize them in the future.
If their primary goal were actually to make Vintage more accessible, Power would just be normal mythics.
Vintage masters implies that all the classical goodies from 1993-94 will be in. Force of will is what makes vintage at least playable. They say they want LED to cost less than power 9, and if it isn't reprinted it will be on par or worth more than P9.
The extremely limited amount of p9 entering doesn't really matter much unless absolutely everyone has to have p9 online. A playset is a single copy/you don't need more. People don't need 4 copies, and that is the deciding factor in terms of pricing. A lot easier to get one copy versus four copies.
Underestimate the number who support the reserved list? Please. Show me all these people who don't want dual lands reprinted, because I'm not seeing it. A huge collector from my area who owns playsets of moat and such wants it abolished so you could open a foil underground sea in a pack or what not.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
By losing money, a substantial amount, they've been screwed over. They might enjoy it, but they've lost plenty of value nonetheless.
I think you quite underestimate how large the group of people who support the reserved list is. The idiots who just want everything handed to them are far more vocal than their opposition.
If you're counting them as actual money, you should be putting your money into something far more reliable than pieces of cardboard (not that a mythic rarity reprinting of them in a limited run set would affect the value much at all). If you care about them because of their value and not because of their rarity (a reprinting doesn't affect the rarity of ALPHA P9 cards), you're not much of a collector. That only really leaves people who simply want to own something that's useful in game that most others don't have - AKA: crappy people.
The idiots who just want everything handed to them are far more vocal than their opposition. Hurr durr.
Look! It's the not-at-all-overused 'entitlement' meme. I've never seen that used as some sort of invincible trump card to win arguments before in the history of anything ever.
Anyways . . . $7 for virtual packs. I was semi-interested, and now I'm not. There's a huge swath of players who love MtG, but, for various reasons, hate MtGO. This isn't going to help.
Vintage masters implies that all the classical goodies from 1993-94 will be in.
Not at all. Remember, people incorrectly thought that Modern Masters implied that stuff like Thoughtseize would be in.
The extremely limited amount of p9 entering doesn't really matter much unless absolutely everyone has to have p9 online. A playset is a single copy/you don't need more. People don't need 4 copies, and that is the deciding factor in terms of pricing. A lot easier to get one copy versus four copies.
Yes, a playset is a single copy of each card. But Vintage decks generally run a "playset" of most power. Compare to Modern Masters — most Modern decks don't run more than 1-2 of the mythics in that set. So if you're looking to make a Vintage deck you'll need 7ish of the power cards. That's enough to make them quite expensive.
Look! It's the not-at-all-overused 'entitlement' meme. I've never seen that used as some sort of invincible trump card to win arguments before in the history of anything ever.
Entitlement sure applies when the situation is about adults whining over the sheer injustice that certain pieces of cardboard are inaccessible to them. Magic cards aren't anything essential and the whining over how Wizards should give you the chance of an actual Black Lotus for $7 is absolutely ridiculous.
Look! It's the not-at-all-overused 'entitlement' meme. I've never seen that used as some sort of invincible trump card to win arguments before in the history of anything ever.
Anyways . . . $7 for virtual packs. I was semi-interested, and now I'm not. There's a huge swath of players who love MtG, but, for various reasons, hate MtGO. This isn't going to help.
lol A. You don't even really know what the word "meme" means, do you?
B. When the issue is people complaining about a company not giving them something, it's pretty much entitlement.
C. It's pretty funny how you complain about the mention of the word "entitlement" sidestepping any kind of counterargument, itself being a "trump card", when your only response is to *also* sidestep any discussion and not refute any point I brought up.
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Whenever someone claims to hate blue I automatically assume they're a bad player.
Entitlement sure applies when the situation is about adults whining over the sheer injustice that certain pieces of cardboard are inaccessible to them. Magic cards aren't anything essential and the whining over how Wizards should give you the chance of an actual Black Lotus for $7 is absolutely ridiculous.
You mean adults whining about wanting to play a game on a level playing field without spending thousands of dollars? What *******s. If people wanted free copies of the entire P9 every time they walk into a game store, you may have a point. That's not even sort of what's being discussed here. Not to mention that it would undeniably make the company money.
You mean adults whining about wanting to play a game on a level playing field without spending thousands of dollars? What *******s. If people wanted free copies of the entire P9 every time they walk into a game store, you may have a point. That's not even sort of what's being discussed here.
Competitive Magic isn't for everyone. If you can't afford expensive cards/afford to spend a lot of money on the game, it's not for you.
Even in a much less expensive format like Standard, where every card is widely available, you *still* need to be able to pay large amounts to constantly change your deck as the meta shifts and new sets come out.
Thinking that the ability to play competitively should just be handed to you *is* entitlement.
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Whenever someone claims to hate blue I automatically assume they're a bad player.
Competitive Magic isn't for everyone. If you can't afford expensive cards/afford to spend a lot of money on the game, it's not for you.
Even in a much less expensive format like Standard, where every card is widely available, you *still* need to be able to pay large amounts to constantly change your deck as the meta shifts and new sets come out.
Thinking that the ability to play competitively should just be handed to you *is* entitlement.
Standard costs a few hundred. That's a lot, sure, but not even remotely close to the same thing. It's an expensive hobby because it's an expensive hobby - there's absolutely no actual reason for it to be besides greed. It's not like having money makes you more worthy of being a competitive MTG player. Working in the private sector rather than in a non-profit doesn't make you a more competent player. People aren't entitled because they want to play a game that uses little pieces of cardboard. Would video game players be "entitled" if the next console generation cost $500,000 for a console, $10,000 for controllers and $60,000 for games and they complained about it?
If you can't see why your argument is idiotic, there's no help for you.
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Vintage is too bah row keen for FoW. You use Mana Drain bro.
Wasteland is just a crappy Strip Mine, play 4x:nod::nod::nod::nod:
Um, no, actually it says "1 premium foil card (any rarity, including the extremely rare premium foil Power Nine card), OR 1 Power Nine card." That means that the normal P9 cards are competing with foils rather than with other rares/mythics. This could mean they're more or less common than a mythic, we don't know, but it certainly means they aren't mixed in with the normal cards.
The second point makes no sense. They consider the secondary market, even though they shouldn't, so real life is different. There is no secondary market for the P9 on MTGO because they don't exist. There's no reason to make them scarcer than other cards if they're trying to get more people to play the format.
Unfortunately for paper magic, there will come a time when printing vast amounts of cardboard and shipping it across the globe becomes very expensive and wizards stops doing it.
I didn't say you were wrong that they said it, I said that it makes no sense. I don't understand their aim at all. It's idiotic if they're trying to get people to play the format.
As much as I love playing with the cards IRL, I must agree. I see a day when there will only be digital Magic. It could be 10 years from now, maybe 20 years, but I can see a day when the logistics involved with paper become "a thing of the past." I don't mean this is something I want because the face to face game play at a store cannot come close to the cold and impersonal digital play, but I can see it happening.
On topic: I mostly play online and this is just plain awesome. I pulled a phantom Black Lotus in Cube play and that was a lot of fun.
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Ok! Let's say tomorrow, Wizards says this is coming to your local game store, in the flesh, paper Vintage Masters packs. You will *not* be able to buy *any* of these at what...$6.99 is the price? Wizards can only suggest a price (The S in MSRP), more of these cards will be printed, yes, but they will still be extremely expensive. You won't be able to buy $700 for $7 lol.
And that brings us to point two, the reserved list. People actually want them to break it? Guess you can never take WotC at their word again. When a company promises something, I expect them to keep it. Otherwise *every single person* who owns an expensive card is screwed over.
But let's forgo that conclusion, let's say everyone who owns power, dual lands, whatever, is ok with them reprinting these cards in future sets. Wait, they'll never be in future sets, development is still an issue for standard. You won't see any old, powerful cards in there.
So this puts them in supplemental products. FTV: Dual lands, all the Moxen in this years commander product. *Again* the price of these things would shoot up extremely, putting them out of reach of the casual player. (A player, by the way, that has no need for such powerful cards.)
Players like most of the people ITT are extremely entitled. Just because you bought into a Theros draft and own a horrible Commander deck doesn't mean you deserve to own a full set of duals and power. So many businesses (Including WotC themselves) live and die on this game, throwing it's economy into chaos just so you can own cards you have no business playing is being selfish.
I'm not too excited for Vintage Masters, I don't play Magic online. But I'll probably shanghai a friend who does into letting me draft with him if the environments looks fun enough.
I own duals and could give two sh!ts if they reprint the cards and allowed me to play a format I love more than just once a month....
BUG Reanimator
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BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
Remember that time anecdotal evidence was accepted as worth anything in any argument...ever?
Yeah me neither.
You're kidding right? Like, seriously? You think shipping costs are going to stop WotC from making paper magic cards? If WotC stops producing paper cards I don't know about you but I'd abandon ship immediately and sell my whole collection because if magic is digital only like solforge, hearthstone, hex, etc. etc. I see no reason why I should play it when the magic online client sucks ass.
Extremely excited for this set. I assume they'll be putting dual lands in here, LED, FoW, mana drain, etc. etc. and that is AWESOME for the eternal scene on magic online. I'm also excited for what the limited environment will look like. Yawgmoth's will seems like it will be a shoe in. Wonder what else will be. Can't wait for this to come out.
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Remember that time a company made a bad decision and made an even worse one for a small minority that doesn't add value to the community or game? The people that try to defend it are idiots.
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You say that *every single person* who owns an expensive card is screwed over. Some people actually, shockingly, ENJOY playing this game and would rather not have binders full of cards collecting dust and bragging about what they have collected. I'm not the only one. Even if I was, though, that negates your claim that *every single person* is screwed because the enjoyment for me comes from playing; if duals, FOW, Mana Drains, all become worthless tomorrow whatever. I'm not going to cry over it.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
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I wouldn't assume that. Power by itself is enough to sell this. Putting all those in here as well reduces their potential to monetize them in the future.
If their primary goal were actually to make Vintage more accessible, Power would just be normal mythics.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
And what about players like me who own Power and just want a few other people to play Vintage with? I wouldn't want my duals or power to lose its value completely, but I'd like it to be more accessible to others so that my friends who are willing to drop the money on a Legacy deck wouldn't shy away so hard from dropping money on a Vintage deck, both in terms of how expensive it is and in terms of how hard it is to find people to play with.
I don't play on MODO, and some decks aren't even playable there due to the lack of short cuts, so this product isn't super relevant to me. Please do consider the opinion of people who own these cards, and not just what you believe it is.
And yea, I've played in Sanctioned Vintage events, and this is the level of bling you'll see at those events: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLS9zhJ-kkQ&list=UUoEQBwcDaI5ZsKUZMB9qeRQ
By losing money, a substantial amount, they've been screwed over. They might enjoy it, but they've lost plenty of value nonetheless.
I think you quite underestimate how large the group of people who support the reserved list is. The idiots who just want everything handed to them are far more vocal than their opposition.
Vintage masters implies that all the classical goodies from 1993-94 will be in. Force of will is what makes vintage at least playable. They say they want LED to cost less than power 9, and if it isn't reprinted it will be on par or worth more than P9.
The extremely limited amount of p9 entering doesn't really matter much unless absolutely everyone has to have p9 online. A playset is a single copy/you don't need more. People don't need 4 copies, and that is the deciding factor in terms of pricing. A lot easier to get one copy versus four copies.
Underestimate the number who support the reserved list? Please. Show me all these people who don't want dual lands reprinted, because I'm not seeing it. A huge collector from my area who owns playsets of moat and such wants it abolished so you could open a foil underground sea in a pack or what not.
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If you're counting them as actual money, you should be putting your money into something far more reliable than pieces of cardboard (not that a mythic rarity reprinting of them in a limited run set would affect the value much at all). If you care about them because of their value and not because of their rarity (a reprinting doesn't affect the rarity of ALPHA P9 cards), you're not much of a collector. That only really leaves people who simply want to own something that's useful in game that most others don't have - AKA: crappy people.
Look! It's the not-at-all-overused 'entitlement' meme. I've never seen that used as some sort of invincible trump card to win arguments before in the history of anything ever.
Anyways . . . $7 for virtual packs. I was semi-interested, and now I'm not. There's a huge swath of players who love MtG, but, for various reasons, hate MtGO. This isn't going to help.
Not at all. Remember, people incorrectly thought that Modern Masters implied that stuff like Thoughtseize would be in.
Yes, a playset is a single copy of each card. But Vintage decks generally run a "playset" of most power. Compare to Modern Masters — most Modern decks don't run more than 1-2 of the mythics in that set. So if you're looking to make a Vintage deck you'll need 7ish of the power cards. That's enough to make them quite expensive.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
lol A. You don't even really know what the word "meme" means, do you?
B. When the issue is people complaining about a company not giving them something, it's pretty much entitlement.
C. It's pretty funny how you complain about the mention of the word "entitlement" sidestepping any kind of counterargument, itself being a "trump card", when your only response is to *also* sidestep any discussion and not refute any point I brought up.
You mean adults whining about wanting to play a game on a level playing field without spending thousands of dollars? What *******s. If people wanted free copies of the entire P9 every time they walk into a game store, you may have a point. That's not even sort of what's being discussed here. Not to mention that it would undeniably make the company money.
Competitive Magic isn't for everyone. If you can't afford expensive cards/afford to spend a lot of money on the game, it's not for you.
Even in a much less expensive format like Standard, where every card is widely available, you *still* need to be able to pay large amounts to constantly change your deck as the meta shifts and new sets come out.
Thinking that the ability to play competitively should just be handed to you *is* entitlement.
Standard costs a few hundred. That's a lot, sure, but not even remotely close to the same thing. It's an expensive hobby because it's an expensive hobby - there's absolutely no actual reason for it to be besides greed. It's not like having money makes you more worthy of being a competitive MTG player. Working in the private sector rather than in a non-profit doesn't make you a more competent player. People aren't entitled because they want to play a game that uses little pieces of cardboard. Would video game players be "entitled" if the next console generation cost $500,000 for a console, $10,000 for controllers and $60,000 for games and they complained about it?
If you can't see why your argument is idiotic, there's no help for you.