No, I really don't. The articles says that they wanted Esper to be a control shard (because it's blue centered) and an artifact shard. It says absolutely nothing about the two being correlated, which the comment I initially replied to stated. That article is referring to Esper. That's it. It's not actually referring to BWU as a group of colors on its own.
I never once said Esper didn't make sense. It was fine. But artifacts and control aren't even remotely related. Artifacts exist in all strategies and work well with all colors.
This is what I responded to, in case you've forgotten. This is blatantly incorrect in MTG in general. They jammed that into Alara block to make Esper make sense. It has no support anywhere else, as the massive amount of white artifact hate demonstrates and the huge number of red/green artifact supporting cards demonstrates.
You responded by saying "white and blue can kill artifacts" which was honestly not a remotely relevant point.
The release of Shards of Alara made many fans of control disappointed because it ignored the obvious by forcing a mini-mirrodin theme on a wedge in which only one of its colors cared about artifacts.
Blue is the artifact color. White is the equipment color. Black is the only odd one on Esper. But Black isn't opposed to creative use of artifice, it will use anything in order to further its goals.
Thematically artifacts and control (in the way Esper was done) flowed very well and fit both thematically and mechanically. To say it was "forced" is simply incorrect. You may dislike it, but that does not mean it was in any way shoehorned in.
Drawing cards without some form of life payment isn't in B/. I mean, thematically you can pretend the life payment is coming from your opponents, but in terms of the color pie, that's not what's going on. The lifegain comes from W, the card draw from U, and the life loss for your opponents from B.
The problem is with the cards built to support that effect. Since what you rely on for the U effect is Lifegain, which both White and Black do very well, you'll have a lot more White and Black in the deck than you will Blue.
Since White is straight lifegain, and Black is lifestealing lifegain.
Um, did you even read those links? The first one simply explains that Esper is the control shard (which no one disagreed with). It doesn't say a word about artifacts being linked to control. It talks about artifacts being linked to blue, I suppose, but that's not at all the same thing. The second link literally has the word "artifact" appear once - which links to a page explaining how artifacts are meant to be used by every color of mage and every style of play. In fact, it says artifacts lend themselves best towards combo.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Did you even read those articles? Every creature in esper is an artifact creature. Why? Because esper is all about control. They want to control the weather, the terrain, their own bodies. Esper captures the very essence of control. They're not artifacts because they like metal, they're artifacts because they changed everything to be that way so the could better control it. This is not a difficult concept to grasp. If you think that esper is any less "control based" because it's creatures don't lend themselves to control strategies than you are either missing the point entirely or ignoring the flavor of the world.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Did you even read those articles? Every creature in esper is an artifact creature. Why? Because esper is all about control. They want to control the weather, the terrain, their own bodies. Esper captures the very essence of control. They're not artifacts because they like metal, they're artifacts because they changed everything to be that way so the could better control it. This is not a difficult concept to grasp. If you think that esper is an less "control based" because it's creatures don't lend themselves to control strategies than you are either missing the point entirely or ignoring the flavor of the world.
He responded 6ish minutes after my posting them. I doubt he even gave them more than a quick skim. They aren't long at all, but considering how sure he is of his point I'd expect several re-readings.
I like this guy a lot. Even if your deck isn't focused on life gain he can still sit in the command zone and gain you some extra life to spend on your black cards. If he's on the field he can also net you more cards which is something these colors love. Overall a fantastic commander I think and I'm torn between this and the bant general in which I like more.
well now. this is a very funny general. LETS DO THIS!!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sel'rahc, Beneficial Scholar 1WUR
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Haste RU Draw 2 Cards, this creature deals 2 damage to each other creature you control. RW Choose Two - Target Creature gains First Strike, Lifelink, or Haste until end of turn. UW Choose One - Return Target Creature to the top of it's Owner's deck, or Creatures your Opponent controls can't attack this turn. This creature doesn't untap during your next untap step.
"The level of supremacy the enemy has gained is negligble. I have gained advantage though means of intellect."
P/T: 3:3
The problem is with the cards built to support that effect. Since what you rely on for the U effect is Lifegain, which both White and Black do very well, you'll have a lot more White and Black in the deck than you will Blue.
Since White is straight lifegain, and Black is lifestealing lifegain.
It's possible. But the original question was what makes Oloro blue at all, and it's because he has easy card draw available. It's innately connected with his white and black sides, but that's true of a lot of multicolored cards.
It's possible. But the original question was what makes Oloro blue at all, and it's because he has easy card draw available. It's innately connected with his white and black sides, but that's true of a lot of multicolored cards.
Lets look at blue. It's stuck between white and black. Therefore it's eternally torn between morality and amorality, self and group. So Oloro's position can be one of aloofness (check out Zur's flavor text), separating himself from society while not drowning in his own ambition. The blue is a balancing factor.
Hopefully we get flavor snippets about these legends.
I guess I'm curious why his first and last abilities weren't summarized into one. "At the beginning of your upkeep, if ~ is in your command zone or on the battlefield, you gain 2 life."
He responded 6ish minutes after my posting them. I doubt he even gave them more than a quick skim. They aren't long at all, but considering how sure he is of his point I'd expect several re-readings.
He probably didn't. Can we talk about this card though and how amazing it is.
Two life every turn and you never even have to play the guy. Sure you can play him and he becomes a weak draw engine but the real power is in the 2 life gained every turn. Life gain is generally seen as being weak in EDH because there are so many ways to kill your opponent besides attacking. Between combo, mill, infect, and general damage it's not difficult to circumvent your opponent's life total at all.
The amazing thing about this guy is that he gives you the life for free though. That life gain could be a big deal for helping to deal with creature decks. Often times when people realize your playing combo, hard lock, stax etc. you become the focus of everyone at the table for playing such an "unfun" strategy. This guy could provide some much needed breathing room for players to stabilize.
People are really undervaluing this guy which is understandable. He does have some serious competition with Zur and Sharuum but he doesn't require the same build around that those guys do. I think of the 4 we have seen so far this guy is definitely the best. The only thing I don't like is that he is a giant soldier. Honestly if he were just a giant I wouldn't think anything of it. He just doesn't feel like a soldier to me.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I guess I'm curious why his first and last abilities weren't summarized into one. "At the beginning of your upkeep, if ~ is in your command zone or on the battlefield, you gain 2 life."
It looks like the template for Command Zone effects is end of card, it might also be due to how Command Zone effects are treated in 60 card games.
Wizards of the COast creating cards just for Commander reminds me of parents trying desperately to join in a video game with their kids or enter into a conversation with those kids about their recreational lives. That parent is trying SO HARD to be cool, and to act like they GET what their kids are excited about...but they don't get it at all and ultimately sound stupid.
It's possible. But the original question was what makes Oloro blue at all, and it's because he has easy card draw available. It's innately connected with his white and black sides, but that's true of a lot of multicolored cards.
what? Oloro is blue because he standstill's while your opponents go panic because of his BW color. He also enables UWB draw-go Decks viable in Commander EDH 1v1. that is blue!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Wizards of the COast creating cards just for Commander reminds me of parents trying desperately to join in a video game with their kids or enter into a conversation with those kids about their recreational lives. That parent is trying SO HARD to be cool, and to act like they GET what their kids are excited about...but they don't get it at all and ultimately sound stupid.
So... you don't run Command Tower in any of your EDH decks, and if you were given one you would throw it out?
So punisher decks can't even adapt or change/add cards to combat this, because it doesn't ever have to come out of the command zone?
Great.
If your Zozu deck can't out-damage an opponent who is gaining 2 life per turn, you may need to go back to the drawing board.
1) As numerous people have mentioned, there's plenty of anti-lifegain tech cards available in even just monored: Sulfuric Vortex and Stigma Lasher are two. A Skullcrack on a Stick could also work. If you're a Zo-zu the Punisher deck I can't imagine why you aren't already running at least Vortex.
2) You can also adapt by running more damage doublers for Zozu's effect (like Gratuitous Violence), or by changing strategy and aiming for a combo, infect, or commander damage kill (which all ignore your opponent's life total).
(More) On topic: I really, really like this guy. A lot. Repeatable card drawing, repeatable lifegain, and an effect even if he gets stuck in the Command zone? Sign me up!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I was tinkering with the idea of building an esper deck around the foil Merieke Ri Berit I dug out of my collection, but this guy looks more fun since I love extort. I'm snatching up this and the bant pack day one, hopefully the naya one won't be so appealing that my wallet won't be exsanguinated.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"People underestimate Bob at their peril." - Rayland Givens
Wizards of the COast creating cards just for Commander reminds me of parents trying desperately to join in a video game with their kids or enter into a conversation with those kids about their recreational lives. That parent is trying SO HARD to be cool, and to act like they GET what their kids are excited about...but they don't get it at all and ultimately sound stupid.
Yeah, because none of them have ever played it, right? Not the ones who only write about it? Or the ones that say it's their favorite to play? Out of you and them, wanna know who I think doesn't get it at all and ultimately sounds stupid?
You responded by saying "white and blue can kill artifacts" which was honestly not a remotely relevant point.
Here's what I have a problem with:
Blue is the artifact color. White is the equipment color. Black is the only odd one on Esper. But Black isn't opposed to creative use of artifice, it will use anything in order to further its goals.
Thematically artifacts and control (in the way Esper was done) flowed very well and fit both thematically and mechanically. To say it was "forced" is simply incorrect. You may dislike it, but that does not mean it was in any way shoehorned in.
The problem is with the cards built to support that effect. Since what you rely on for the U effect is Lifegain, which both White and Black do very well, you'll have a lot more White and Black in the deck than you will Blue.
Since White is straight lifegain, and Black is lifestealing lifegain.
Did you even read those articles? Every creature in esper is an artifact creature. Why? Because esper is all about control. They want to control the weather, the terrain, their own bodies. Esper captures the very essence of control. They're not artifacts because they like metal, they're artifacts because they changed everything to be that way so the could better control it. This is not a difficult concept to grasp. If you think that esper is any less "control based" because it's creatures don't lend themselves to control strategies than you are either missing the point entirely or ignoring the flavor of the world.
He responded 6ish minutes after my posting them. I doubt he even gave them more than a quick skim. They aren't long at all, but considering how sure he is of his point I'd expect several re-readings.
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Haste
RU Draw 2 Cards, this creature deals 2 damage to each other creature you control.
RW Choose Two - Target Creature gains First Strike, Lifelink, or Haste until end of turn.
UW Choose One - Return Target Creature to the top of it's Owner's deck, or Creatures your Opponent controls can't attack this turn. This creature doesn't untap during your next untap step.
"The level of supremacy the enemy has gained is negligble. I have gained advantage though means of intellect."
P/T: 3:3
It's possible. But the original question was what makes Oloro blue at all, and it's because he has easy card draw available. It's innately connected with his white and black sides, but that's true of a lot of multicolored cards.
Great.
Lets look at blue. It's stuck between white and black. Therefore it's eternally torn between morality and amorality, self and group. So Oloro's position can be one of aloofness (check out Zur's flavor text), separating himself from society while not drowning in his own ambition. The blue is a balancing factor.
Hopefully we get flavor snippets about these legends.
He probably didn't. Can we talk about this card though and how amazing it is.
Two life every turn and you never even have to play the guy. Sure you can play him and he becomes a weak draw engine but the real power is in the 2 life gained every turn. Life gain is generally seen as being weak in EDH because there are so many ways to kill your opponent besides attacking. Between combo, mill, infect, and general damage it's not difficult to circumvent your opponent's life total at all.
The amazing thing about this guy is that he gives you the life for free though. That life gain could be a big deal for helping to deal with creature decks. Often times when people realize your playing combo, hard lock, stax etc. you become the focus of everyone at the table for playing such an "unfun" strategy. This guy could provide some much needed breathing room for players to stabilize.
People are really undervaluing this guy which is understandable. He does have some serious competition with Zur and Sharuum but he doesn't require the same build around that those guys do. I think of the 4 we have seen so far this guy is definitely the best. The only thing I don't like is that he is a giant soldier. Honestly if he were just a giant I wouldn't think anything of it. He just doesn't feel like a soldier to me.
Erebos, God of the Dead, Sulfuric Vortex, etc.
Stigma Lasher will work just fine.
It looks like the template for Command Zone effects is end of card, it might also be due to how Command Zone effects are treated in 60 card games.
I can see this being banned in my EDH group pretty darn fast.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
what? Oloro is blue because he standstill's while your opponents go panic because of his BW color. He also enables UWB draw-go Decks viable in Commander EDH 1v1. that is blue!
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
So... you don't run Command Tower in any of your EDH decks, and if you were given one you would throw it out?
If your Zozu deck can't out-damage an opponent who is gaining 2 life per turn, you may need to go back to the drawing board.
1) As numerous people have mentioned, there's plenty of anti-lifegain tech cards available in even just monored: Sulfuric Vortex and Stigma Lasher are two. A Skullcrack on a Stick could also work. If you're a Zo-zu the Punisher deck I can't imagine why you aren't already running at least Vortex.
2) You can also adapt by running more damage doublers for Zozu's effect (like Gratuitous Violence), or by changing strategy and aiming for a combo, infect, or commander damage kill (which all ignore your opponent's life total).
(More) On topic: I really, really like this guy. A lot. Repeatable card drawing, repeatable lifegain, and an effect even if he gets stuck in the Command zone? Sign me up!
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I'm waiting for his backstory... Giant soldier from Dominaira (like Jotun Grunt)? Jelevia is from Innistrad eh?
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Yeah, because none of them have ever played it, right? Not the ones who only write about it? Or the ones that say it's their favorite to play? Out of you and them, wanna know who I think doesn't get it at all and ultimately sounds stupid?
I'm pretty sure they did that in the insert last time.
PucaTrade Invite. Sign up and enjoy the first 500 points ($5) free!