its not that bad, its a good card but its no worse for artifact or enchantment based strategies than any of the large amounts of creature field wipe. if this is all it takes to stop your game and its big in your play group the reevaluate your deck to not be sooo fragile
I'm not a Commander player, but I find funny that people complain about this card. Like, how many times are you really going to see it? And how many times are you going to see it interacting with other specific cards? It's one card in a 100-cards deck. Other constructed formats see four copies on 60-cards deck and still work fine IMHO.
But, as I started, I am not a Commander player. Maybe Commander isn't what I think and it's actually full of toolbox-like decks.
I never liked how green was the Enchantress colors and still blew them up all the time. But hey, can't complain that the color that does everything can do everything.
Obviously you play lots of enchantments so your Bane of Progress can eat them and get bigger.
Really, though, Green liking enchantments is pretty weird considering its philosophy of accepting things in their natural state. Even Giant Growth should logically be taboo, since it's an unnatural alteration of a creature's form.
I'd be much happier if Blue was one of the main enchantment-loving colors. Blue is all about alteration and change, as well as intangible magical effects. If I could reboot Magic that's one of the color pie changes I'd make.
I'm not a Commander player, but I find funny that people complain about this card. Like, how many times are you really going to see it? And how many times are you going to see it interacting with other specific cards? It's one card in a 100-cards deck. Other constructed formats see four copies on 60-cards deck and still work fine IMHO.
But, as I started, I am not a Commander player. Maybe Commander isn't what I think and it's actually full of toolbox-like decks.
Commander also have access to all the best tutors ever made.
Well, Really I meant both. Ashen doesn't have any benefit OVER Angel in that scenario, except that now I can effectively have two copies of Angel in the same list.
But you all must know that someone's going to run Mycosynth Lattice + Darksteel Forge + Bane of Progress...
"dies to removal" is kind of a funny running-joke in magic. Anyone with some perspective understands that it isn't exactly a good belief to hold but there is always some truth to it.
"it dies to Jester's Cap" is actually one of the dumbest things any magic player could possibly say when evaluating a card. I hope that you are still new to the game and that that card is one of the very few you are familiar with so far.
I'm not a Commander player, but I find funny that people complain about this card. Like, how many times are you really going to see it? And how many times are you going to see it interacting with other specific cards? It's one card in a 100-cards deck. Other constructed formats see four copies on 60-cards deck and still work fine IMHO.
But, as I started, I am not a Commander player. Maybe Commander isn't what I think and it's actually full of toolbox-like decks.
It's a creature which means that it's really easy to tutor for and cheat into play as compared with the usual Instant/Sorcery board wipes. The decks that can use this can use it effectively and regularly. Basically it's the tool in the box that a lot of decks have been missing.
I kinda want to go to MTGCommander rules discussion and refresh the page until it has a "BAN BANE OF PROGRESS1!!!1!one!eeONEonO!" thread, because there WILL be one by tomorrow morning.
For what it's worth, the opposite of evergreen is "deciduous" so I suggest we start using that from now on to refer to shroud, banding, islandhome, etc.
This seems like a reasonable Commander card if you ask me. I'm not sure why people seem to be upset about it.
Because it's horrifying. This guy is absolutely nuts!
It does hose a lot of unfair strategies, though, so I think it's a good meta check. I kind-of think it's undercosted, or should be 4RG. At least it's hard to be degenerate with him, since the strongest iteration will be the first time he hits play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Treasure maps, fallen trees, operator please
Patch me back to my mind
You don't see these played much do you? I lose a Sol Ring and the rest of the table loses 12 cards.
Don't get me wrong, it's very very powerful. All I'm saying is that if it were that tiny bit more powerful, I would have considered it too good. As it is, it's fair.
[CARD]
Purify[/CARD] and Austere Command haven't destroyed the format yet, I don't think this will either.
A couple people have mentioned Animar, but tbh, I wouldn't run him there, because he nukes Cloudstone Curio and Equilibrium, two of the better Animar combo pieces. Then again, I willfully don't play Deadeye Navigator in mine, so maybe I'm just crazy.
I'm not a Commander player, but I find funny that people complain about this card. Like, how many times are you really going to see it? And how many times are you going to see it interacting with other specific cards? It's one card in a 100-cards deck. Other constructed formats see four copies on 60-cards deck and still work fine IMHO.
But, as I started, I am not a Commander player. Maybe Commander isn't what I think and it's actually full of toolbox-like decks.
In a competitive environment, just about everybody runs 10-20 tutors. You will see this guy. The format is riddled with artifacts and enchantments, many of which are integral to how certain commanders work. I personally don't mind the card, it's just another thing to worry about, and there's already plenty of things to worry about.
Also, as Galspanic pointed out, this is a creature. You're going to see it being Briberied, cloned, reanimated, and blinked at all of the most opportune (or inopportune) moments.
I get that not everyone agrees that this is a bad card for the format ("bad" might be a strong word here), but I think what the critics are trying to get across is that this is a big, dumb creature that doesn't require creativity or foresight on behalf of the caster.
Take Acidic Slime. It kills one artifact or enchantment upon ETB, meaning the caster has to weigh his or her options given their circumstances. It allows for plays that can be looked back upon as either good or bad and allows the player's EXP to go up. Bane of Progress just blows everything up then rewards you for it. The only thing the player has to do is count how many counters his or her creature will have after his ability resolves. It will almost always be a good play (barring shenanigans!!!) that could've been better. Those are your choices: good or better.
I'll go ahead and leave you with another example of why people feel like WotC might be trying too hard here: Living Death is a mass reanimation spell that creates a very interesting board state. If the caster isn't careful, they could be giving their opponents creatures that might be problematic down the line. It creates tension and keeps all the players involved rather than politely asking them to just put down the cards because you'll take it from here. Rise of the Dark Realms does exactly the opposite. It's a big dumb spell that, again, can either be cast for a good benefit, or a better benefit.
Anyway, just my two cents. I'm [EDIT: NOT] saying anyone who disagrees is wrong or dumb or anything like that; I'm just trying to help voice something that I feel and seems to be echoed on here and in my LGS from time to time.
DISCLAIMER: I know almost anything can be countered and stuff dies to removal, and there are always shenanigans!!! afoot, so my argument won't always hold weight.
Huh? How do you know the people complaining about this card are netdeckers? And really, is that at all relevant?
Not everyone complaining about this card is a netdecker
But you can be sure that all the netdeckers with pre-made decks heavy on artifacts and enchantements are hating it "this ruins my deck that I ripped off the internet and that I spent a bunch of money on!"
(22 Total) - October 2014; December 2014; January 2015; April 2015; June 2015; August 2015; September 2015; November 2015; December 2015(T); January 2016; March 2016(T); April 2016; June 2016; October 2016; December 2016(T); February 2017; April 2017; December 2017; November 2018(T); January 2019; April 2019; June 2019
(8 Total) - May 2015; May 2016; June 2016; August 2016; October 2016; December 2016; October 2017; May 2019
(7 Total) - September 2015; October 2015; January 2016; March 2016; April 2016; July 2016(T); March 2019(T)
Not everyone complaining about this card is a netdecker
But you can be sure that all the netdeckers with pre-made decks heavy on artifacts and enchantements are hating it
And that make me very happy
Yeah, that's a strange leap of logic that pre-made decks are artifact heavy as compared to non pre-made decks. I just haven't ever seen that pattern in the years of playing EDH and posting here.
Except counter or cap the damn thing.
I meant I couldn't stop it from being printed. Oh, I can probably deal with it in 90% of decks, excluding only my Diaochan, Artful Beauty.
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
But, as I started, I am not a Commander player. Maybe Commander isn't what I think and it's actually full of toolbox-like decks.
[Clan Flamingo]
The clan for custom card creators!
Obviously you play lots of enchantments so your Bane of Progress can eat them and get bigger.
Really, though, Green liking enchantments is pretty weird considering its philosophy of accepting things in their natural state. Even Giant Growth should logically be taboo, since it's an unnatural alteration of a creature's form.
I'd be much happier if Blue was one of the main enchantment-loving colors. Blue is all about alteration and change, as well as intangible magical effects. If I could reboot Magic that's one of the color pie changes I'd make.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Commander also have access to all the best tutors ever made.
But you all must know that someone's going to run Mycosynth Lattice + Darksteel Forge + Bane of Progress...
"dies to removal" is kind of a funny running-joke in magic. Anyone with some perspective understands that it isn't exactly a good belief to hold but there is always some truth to it.
"it dies to Jester's Cap" is actually one of the dumbest things any magic player could possibly say when evaluating a card. I hope that you are still new to the game and that that card is one of the very few you are familiar with so far.
It's a creature which means that it's really easy to tutor for and cheat into play as compared with the usual Instant/Sorcery board wipes. The decks that can use this can use it effectively and regularly. Basically it's the tool in the box that a lot of decks have been missing.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
EAT ALL THE THINGS!
#saltyenchantressplayers
Quotes:
Because it's horrifying. This guy is absolutely nuts!
It does hose a lot of unfair strategies, though, so I think it's a good meta check. I kind-of think it's undercosted, or should be 4RG. At least it's hard to be degenerate with him, since the strongest iteration will be the first time he hits play.
Patch me back to my mind
The amount of butthurt he's generating only helps me like him even more
Seeing bad netdeck players cry is why I live
Don't get me wrong, it's very very powerful. All I'm saying is that if it were that tiny bit more powerful, I would have considered it too good. As it is, it's fair.
[CARD]
Purify[/CARD] and Austere Command haven't destroyed the format yet, I don't think this will either.
PucaTrade Invite. Sign up and enjoy the first 500 points ($5) free!
Huh? How do you know the people complaining about this card are netdeckers? And really, is that at all relevant?
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
In a competitive environment, just about everybody runs 10-20 tutors. You will see this guy. The format is riddled with artifacts and enchantments, many of which are integral to how certain commanders work. I personally don't mind the card, it's just another thing to worry about, and there's already plenty of things to worry about.
Also, as Galspanic pointed out, this is a creature. You're going to see it being Briberied, cloned, reanimated, and blinked at all of the most opportune (or inopportune) moments.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Take Acidic Slime. It kills one artifact or enchantment upon ETB, meaning the caster has to weigh his or her options given their circumstances. It allows for plays that can be looked back upon as either good or bad and allows the player's EXP to go up. Bane of Progress just blows everything up then rewards you for it. The only thing the player has to do is count how many counters his or her creature will have after his ability resolves. It will almost always be a good play (barring shenanigans!!!) that could've been better. Those are your choices: good or better.
I'll go ahead and leave you with another example of why people feel like WotC might be trying too hard here: Living Death is a mass reanimation spell that creates a very interesting board state. If the caster isn't careful, they could be giving their opponents creatures that might be problematic down the line. It creates tension and keeps all the players involved rather than politely asking them to just put down the cards because you'll take it from here. Rise of the Dark Realms does exactly the opposite. It's a big dumb spell that, again, can either be cast for a good benefit, or a better benefit.
Anyway, just my two cents. I'm [EDIT: NOT] saying anyone who disagrees is wrong or dumb or anything like that; I'm just trying to help voice something that I feel and seems to be echoed on here and in my LGS from time to time.
DISCLAIMER: I know almost anything can be countered and stuff dies to removal, and there are always shenanigans!!! afoot, so my argument won't always hold weight.
Which is exactly why I love this card
Not everyone complaining about this card is a netdecker
But you can be sure that all the netdeckers with pre-made decks heavy on artifacts and enchantements are hating it "this ruins my deck that I ripped off the internet and that I spent a bunch of money on!"
And that make me very happy
Cold me heart and hand and bone,
Cold be travelers far from home.
Standard
:symw::symg::symb: Morbid Gifts :symb::symg::symw:
Commander
:symg::symw: Rider of the Dawn :symw::symg:
Modern
:symg::symb::symw: Nomads of a Fallen Land :symw::symb::symg:
[Primer]
No need. Mycosynth Lattice + Darksteel Forge + Nevinyrral's Disk already works nicely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Yeah, that's a strange leap of logic that pre-made decks are artifact heavy as compared to non pre-made decks. I just haven't ever seen that pattern in the years of playing EDH and posting here.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.