This may be good, but damn, getting powered down reprints is disappointing both from "it can be more powerful" and "it can be something new" points. Especially when the spoilers are slow and you're waiting for something amazing and then see that.
Hooray more awful cards. Why not run Doubling Season instead of this? Literally zero reason.
I can name one...I mean other than group hug is more fun than solitaire combos. There is an Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder EDH in my play group, and this kind of shuts him down. This doesn't flat out stop him, but it slows him down a bit if he has to keep recasting his commander (hopefully you have a Leyline of Singularity or something to mess around with token decks as well).
I don't understand the dislike of symmetry in cards like this one.
My playgroup, none of whom are slouches, would be ecstatic for this card. Having to weigh the pros/cons of playing/not playing it doesn't faze us, and most of the time, symmetrical effects like this one lead to interesting board states and memorable games.
Then again, my group will also willingly partake in 4-player all-Sliver Commander games (we didn't like the new Sliver "you control" stuff, but that didn't stop me from putting some in my deck for redundancy purposes).
That said, I agree with both that Doubling Season shouldn't be reprinted so soon, and that expensive staples need to be made available to more people. Not necessarily me, but more people.
Then again, my group will also willingly partake in 4-player all-Sliver Commander games (we didn't like the new Sliver "you control" stuff, but that didn't stop me from putting some in my deck for redundancy purposes).
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ours plays 5 person choas commander planchase lol. weird games ftw
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
We do Planechase Commander from time to time (I own every plane except Tezzeem - no way I'm paying 40 bucks for cardboard), but it significantly slows the games down.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
In almost every instance in which I'd want to run this card, there are other enchantments that cost the same (or less) that do it better. I already have two cards with redundant effects, and several ways to find them or put them from my library directly on the field. Any deck running white as a supporting color has these tools and when I have that kind of consistency already, I'm not really in the market for another effect like this.
I'm certainly not going to look twice at anything that might share that effect with the rest of the table because that is potentially disastrous, even in those games where I think I've got everyone figured out.
Are players on this forum really that bad that they can't grasp the price of including a card over the hundreds of better options?
Ok so you play a five mana enchantment.
If you have a card in your deck that can reasonably be cut for this, your deck probably sucks.
Here's the funny thing:
1) Your attitude is obnoxious and entirely misguided in a format where people often do just play cards for fun and variety.
2) You're also wrong and bad at evaluating cards.
If you play Doubling Season, this card is probably good enough. That includes fairly good combo decks like Ghave, where this is a redundant combo piece. If your entire game experience consists of an awful and tedious meta of Azami.dec vs. Sharuum.dec vs. Hermit Druid combo, then yes, it might not make the cut, though it's probably still quite playable in a dedicated Ghave combo deck. In either case, the Commander precons clearly aren't for you, so whining about them is completely and utterly futile.
This may be good, but damn, getting powered down reprints is disappointing both from "it can be more powerful" and "it can be something new" points. Especially when the spoilers are slow and you're waiting for something amazing and then see that.
I know what you mean. Whilst, I don't personally play a token or counter based deck, so I have no need for cards like this, I can see some people having fun with this. Though, I wish Wizards would be at least a little bit more creative with their design for these speciality sets, I mean they just reprinted Doubling Season, also they printed Parallel Lives not too long ago. With such a small run of new cards, I wish I could see a little bit more inventive designs instead of ideas we've seen before.
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You know... they made doubling season symmetrical just to go with the asymmetrical evacuation (cyclonic rift) so you can be that guy while avoiding being that guy.
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I had a wordy signature here once.
URGRiku, Sorcerer SupremeGRU Who needs permanents anyways? WUBRGDeckbuilder's ToolboxGRBUW Warning:Contents include 34 decks and growing
Me and my playgroup (Ranging from 3 to 6 man games) have tried so many variants of commander.
Planechase
Archenemy
Assassin
all the above combined (In the Case of Archenemy and assassin combination it was fun coz we invented the concept of a Sleeper Agent)
And if your 2-3 card combo involves a five mana enchantment, and your opponents can't remove it/counter your combo, they deserve to lose lol
Right, because every single time you play a card, your opponent is going to have an answer to it, as well as the mana open to cast said answer. And it's not like you can run cards in your deck to protect your combo pieces. That'd just be silly.
Not sure how the thread got here, but I would like to add that I have tried planechase EDH three times, and each time, after about 20 minutes everyone hated it so much that we just stopped playing. This for anyone considering trying it.
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Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Try 12 person 9 on 3 Archenemy EDH games, with 3 archenemy decks. Game lasted 5 and a half hours.
The game with the single greatest Commander moment I can remember ran on the order of 5-6 hours. No Planechase.
Sliver Overlord (me) vs. Zedruu (Friend 1) vs. Mimeoplasm (Friend 1's Girlfriend) vs. Rhys the Redeemed (Friend 2) vs. Riku of Two Reflections (Friend 3) vs. Horde of Notions (Friend 4).
Friend 1 had most of the board locked down with Embargo+Celestial Dawn for most of the game (I think it was Dawn, there's another card that does a similar thing). Friend 4 killed it, then locked me down with Timbermare. Friend 2 lost and went to bed, Friend 3 got knocked out after Embargo left. Friend 1's Girlfriend kept wailing on me with a huge Lhurgoyf while Friend 1 tried to draw into his win. I finally got the advantage when I killed Horde enough to stop the Timbermare stuff, stuck Mycosynth Lattice and Hurkyll's Recall'ed the girlfriend's board back to her hand. I needed one more turn, so passed.
Nothing major happens, Friend 1 burns his library a little more. His girlfriend comes up, she plays an Island, considers for a bit and her eyes get wide. Friend 1 asks her sarcastically what she can do with one blue mana. She plays Minds Aglow. Friend 4 and I tap enough mana on the join forces to knock Friend 1 out when he can't draw. I won on the next turn, but we still give Friend 1 a hard time about that blue mana comment. It was amazing.
Not sure how the thread got here, but I would like to add that I have tried planechase EDH three times, and each time, after about 20 minutes everyone hated it so much that we just stopped playing.
Why was it?
Game was taking too long?
Planes are too complicated?
Other reasons?
Not sure how the thread got here, but I would like to add that I have tried planechase EDH three times, and each time, after about 20 minutes everyone hated it so much that we just stopped playing. This for anyone considering trying it.
Depends on what Planes you use. Some of them are just awful if you want the game to go anywhere.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Cards that are symmetrical seem bad in theory but in practice it's really not that bad. You're the only one who builds his or her deck with the symmetrical card in mind so really you should be getting the brunt of the advantage. It's the same reason why Balance is/was such a force. Anyone else who benefits from this card in a game will only do so incidentally and thus shouldn't be winning the game off of it 99% of the time. Yes, the 1% of the time they do win because of your card will suck for you. But it'll also be a great story.
It was more like the planes were doing too much, randomly distributing resources and tempo advantages every which way. It became so chaotic, it felt like whoever would end up winning was just completely up to random chance, and no decisions we could make would really affect the outcome of the game. Granted, regular EDH can feel like that at times, but not nearly to such an extent.
Regular EDH is complicated and chaotic enough on its own. You don't need to inject more chaos just for the sake of chaos.
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I am just as much excited and disappointed with the new "Doubling Season", really a weird feeling to have. My guess is when I have this kind of feeling it would mean the card is not good enough to warrant a slot in my tokens/+1/+1 counter deck.
The main deciding factor that disappoints me is the card's ability extends to all players. While it doesn't really matter much as we don't really see much players playing the tokens in a playgroup together, the effects are much worse when we add other considerations in. One such consideration is the amount of clone effects. They are rampant in the format, I can't really imagine when Primal Vigor is out, and an opponent decide to just Phanstamal Image my Avenger of Zendikar. Worst is a kicked Rites of Replication.
Personally I don't think that this a really good card to run if your meta has lots of blue players.
My group loves Planechase EDH. The chaos makes it interesting, especially when you get on one of those planes that is horrible and no one can roll off of it.
One game I hit chaos on Horizon Boughs, which came up really early. The next turn I cast Aurelia, the Warleader, enchanted her with Destructive Urge, gave her double strike with Boros Charm and attacked away at my friends clear board. He was a very sad panda.
On the topic of this card, my Thromok EDH deck wants it bad.
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I can name one...I mean other than group hug is more fun than solitaire combos. There is an Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder EDH in my play group, and this kind of shuts him down. This doesn't flat out stop him, but it slows him down a bit if he has to keep recasting his commander (hopefully you have a Leyline of Singularity or something to mess around with token decks as well).
My playgroup, none of whom are slouches, would be ecstatic for this card. Having to weigh the pros/cons of playing/not playing it doesn't faze us, and most of the time, symmetrical effects like this one lead to interesting board states and memorable games.
Then again, my group will also willingly partake in 4-player all-Sliver Commander games (we didn't like the new Sliver "you control" stuff, but that didn't stop me from putting some in my deck for redundancy purposes).
That said, I agree with both that Doubling Season shouldn't be reprinted so soon, and that expensive staples need to be made available to more people. Not necessarily me, but more people.
Lim-Dul Zombies
Kresh | Ghost Council | Sliver Overlord | Reaper King | Sharuum
Kaalia | Ghave | Zedruu | Mimeoplasm | Riku | Child of Alara (Kamigawa) | Anax and Cymede | Damia | Melek | Rakdos | Vela
Building:
Derevi | Maelstrom Wanderer (Primeval) | Nekusar | Borb, Enraged | Tymaret | Ur-Dragon | Marrow-Gnawer | Ruric Thar | Lavinia
ours plays 5 person choas commander planchase lol. weird games ftw
Lim-Dul Zombies
Kresh | Ghost Council | Sliver Overlord | Reaper King | Sharuum
Kaalia | Ghave | Zedruu | Mimeoplasm | Riku | Child of Alara (Kamigawa) | Anax and Cymede | Damia | Melek | Rakdos | Vela
Building:
Derevi | Maelstrom Wanderer (Primeval) | Nekusar | Borb, Enraged | Tymaret | Ur-Dragon | Marrow-Gnawer | Ruric Thar | Lavinia
Try 12 person 9 on 3 Archenemy EDH games, with 3 archenemy decks. Game lasted 5 and a half hours.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I'm certainly not going to look twice at anything that might share that effect with the rest of the table because that is potentially disastrous, even in those games where I think I've got everyone figured out.
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
Here's the funny thing:
1) Your attitude is obnoxious and entirely misguided in a format where people often do just play cards for fun and variety.
2) You're also wrong and bad at evaluating cards.
If you play Doubling Season, this card is probably good enough. That includes fairly good combo decks like Ghave, where this is a redundant combo piece. If your entire game experience consists of an awful and tedious meta of Azami.dec vs. Sharuum.dec vs. Hermit Druid combo, then yes, it might not make the cut, though it's probably still quite playable in a dedicated Ghave combo deck. In either case, the Commander precons clearly aren't for you, so whining about them is completely and utterly futile.
Ah, I see. To the ignore list.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
I know what you mean. Whilst, I don't personally play a token or counter based deck, so I have no need for cards like this, I can see some people having fun with this. Though, I wish Wizards would be at least a little bit more creative with their design for these speciality sets, I mean they just reprinted Doubling Season, also they printed Parallel Lives not too long ago. With such a small run of new cards, I wish I could see a little bit more inventive designs instead of ideas we've seen before.
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
URGRiku, Sorcerer SupremeGRU
Who needs permanents anyways?
WUBRGDeckbuilder's ToolboxGRBUW
Warning:Contents include 34 decks and growing
Planechase
Archenemy
Assassin
all the above combined (In the Case of Archenemy and assassin combination it was fun coz we invented the concept of a Sleeper Agent)
Tons of Fun were had
Right, because every single time you play a card, your opponent is going to have an answer to it, as well as the mana open to cast said answer. And it's not like you can run cards in your deck to protect your combo pieces. That'd just be silly.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
The game with the single greatest Commander moment I can remember ran on the order of 5-6 hours. No Planechase.
Sliver Overlord (me) vs. Zedruu (Friend 1) vs. Mimeoplasm (Friend 1's Girlfriend) vs. Rhys the Redeemed (Friend 2) vs. Riku of Two Reflections (Friend 3) vs. Horde of Notions (Friend 4).
Friend 1 had most of the board locked down with Embargo+Celestial Dawn for most of the game (I think it was Dawn, there's another card that does a similar thing). Friend 4 killed it, then locked me down with Timbermare. Friend 2 lost and went to bed, Friend 3 got knocked out after Embargo left. Friend 1's Girlfriend kept wailing on me with a huge Lhurgoyf while Friend 1 tried to draw into his win. I finally got the advantage when I killed Horde enough to stop the Timbermare stuff, stuck Mycosynth Lattice and Hurkyll's Recall'ed the girlfriend's board back to her hand. I needed one more turn, so passed.
Nothing major happens, Friend 1 burns his library a little more. His girlfriend comes up, she plays an Island, considers for a bit and her eyes get wide. Friend 1 asks her sarcastically what she can do with one blue mana. She plays Minds Aglow. Friend 4 and I tap enough mana on the join forces to knock Friend 1 out when he can't draw. I won on the next turn, but we still give Friend 1 a hard time about that blue mana comment. It was amazing.
Lim-Dul Zombies
Kresh | Ghost Council | Sliver Overlord | Reaper King | Sharuum
Kaalia | Ghave | Zedruu | Mimeoplasm | Riku | Child of Alara (Kamigawa) | Anax and Cymede | Damia | Melek | Rakdos | Vela
Building:
Derevi | Maelstrom Wanderer (Primeval) | Nekusar | Borb, Enraged | Tymaret | Ur-Dragon | Marrow-Gnawer | Ruric Thar | Lavinia
Why was it?
Game was taking too long?
Planes are too complicated?
Other reasons?
Depends on what Planes you use. Some of them are just awful if you want the game to go anywhere.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Cards that are symmetrical seem bad in theory but in practice it's really not that bad. You're the only one who builds his or her deck with the symmetrical card in mind so really you should be getting the brunt of the advantage. It's the same reason why Balance is/was such a force. Anyone else who benefits from this card in a game will only do so incidentally and thus shouldn't be winning the game off of it 99% of the time. Yes, the 1% of the time they do win because of your card will suck for you. But it'll also be a great story.
Altered Art Cards! | Commissions currently Closed
Regular EDH is complicated and chaotic enough on its own. You don't need to inject more chaos just for the sake of chaos.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
The main deciding factor that disappoints me is the card's ability extends to all players. While it doesn't really matter much as we don't really see much players playing the tokens in a playgroup together, the effects are much worse when we add other considerations in. One such consideration is the amount of clone effects. They are rampant in the format, I can't really imagine when Primal Vigor is out, and an opponent decide to just Phanstamal Image my Avenger of Zendikar. Worst is a kicked Rites of Replication.
Personally I don't think that this a really good card to run if your meta has lots of blue players.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
One game I hit chaos on Horizon Boughs, which came up really early. The next turn I cast Aurelia, the Warleader, enchanted her with Destructive Urge, gave her double strike with Boros Charm and attacked away at my friends clear board. He was a very sad panda.
On the topic of this card, my Thromok EDH deck wants it bad.