Aggro needs fast lands at, tap lands are slow. If you use it you can have to muligate more.... and be disapointed instead,
So, the possibility to prevent land screw in the mid-to late game with aggro is win more? Yes. I want to keep drawing lands instead of more threats when I play aggro.
If you draw all Dragonskull Summits and Rakdos Guildgates in your opening hand, I would much rather have Scry Lands.
Are you literate? Or are you just glancing at what is written and ready to fire back what you have already decided you were going to say?
Let me offer a different perspective on this. I understand Maro's point about how they were not necessary at Uncommon for a block oriented towards monocolor, so they printed them at Rare instead. It makes sense to me, and it's entirely appropriate when you consider the needs of Limited.
But it does lead one to ask the question: if it's a mostly monocolored block, do we need any dual lands at all? I think the answer is yes, but I also think the expectation of players is that there will be dual lands in every block now, even if they are crappy duals that aren't as good as a previous set's. So, yeah, they aren't the best rares, but not every set can have amazing duals.
What would you rather have 5 rare scry lands and 5 uncommon spells or 5 uncommon scry lands and 5 rare spells?
I could care less what the rarity of the card is. I look at the cards that are available in a set and make it happen. I don't pine over what "should be" or "this card printed in the past was better..."
Halimar Depths isn't scrying. You can't get a bad card out of the way. The two effects are similar but not necessarily equivalent. Personally I'd rather scry than have a free 3 card Index.
where the hell did anyone say, that they designed theros to support modern? they gave you thoughtseize, a 50$ staple. thats enough love for modern.
wizards never printed cards just to support an eternal format in a standard set, because they mostly would be so powerful that they would warp standard meta completly.
so if some cards are good enough for modern thats fine. but they will never print more powerful cards in standard, just to make them playable in modern.
who the hell told you that? or did you just dream it in your wet modern dream?
they only reprint some modern staples, because they became too expensive, if they are not that overpowered, that they completly dominate standard. like thoughtseize and soon fetchlands who are only too strong when you can fetch shocks.
but they will never start to print cards in a standard legal set just for modern. that will never happen.
All of those sets had cards that are played in top tier decks, but right now there are only 6 cards that even have a chance in Modern. Of those, maybe 2-3 will actually be played (I'm probably overvaluing Nykthos, Sylvan Caryatid, and Thassa). That is way less than Innistrad, Return to Ravnica, M13, or even Gatecrash and Dark Ascension. And I know, only half the set is spoiled, but multiply that number by 2. There are still only 4-6 Modern playable cards in the set, which is still less than Return to Ravnica and Innistrad.
I'm sorry you get consistently beat by this card. I didn't have a problem playing against it last night at FNM.
But it's an unfair card against decks that aren't prepared to play against it. What about the players who don't adequately prepare? Or are just beaten by bad draws? WHAT ABOUT THEM?!?!?!? /sarcasm
Did you people read what MaRo said? Do you guys actually see the juggling act WotC has deal with when it comes to so many different formats? Clearly people never look at context.
Apparently not, but that was probably a rhetorical question...
People really only look at power level for the formats they play; I know I do. And since I really only play Standard, Casual, and EDH, I tend to dismiss cards more targeted towards Modern, Vintage, and Legacy. (although, to be fair, many of the cards good in those formats are good in standard...)
I also think everyone that is complaining about these cards should quit. I'm always buying cards, please feel free to message me.
Never gonna happen. If you don't like complaining, I think staying away from the internet in general would be the best course of action.
That, and you know what they say. If Wizards started shipping $100 bills in boosters tomorrow, people would scream and cry and whine that they were folded the wrong way.
Apparently not, but that was probably a rhetorical question...
No, really. It is the first post on top of page 61 of this thread. It is a good read. I can't argue with what he says. I mean, the scry lands are above average (I'd rather have them than a guild gate).
Plus, I gotta put the advertisement out there for people to rage/quit. Maybe I can get some cards on the cheap
Step 1: Complain about pushed multicolor with perfect mana.
Step 2: Complain about slower multicolor lands, after complaining about pushed multicolor with perfect mana.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
People will always complain. I, for one, find slower but more "powerful" lands than the checks is a good thing. But I guess lack of complaining is frowned upon. So, uh, yeah.
ERMAGHERD ITS THE DERTH OF THE GAEM ERZ WE KNER ET!!11!!one!oneone!1!
...There. Now do I get to join the club of whiny ragenerds?
For what it's worth, the opposite of evergreen is "deciduous" so I suggest we start using that from now on to refer to shroud, banding, islandhome, etc.
Let me offer a different perspective on this. I understand Maro's point about how they were not necessary at Uncommon for a block oriented towards monocolor, so they printed them at Rare instead. It makes sense to me, and it's entirely appropriate when you consider the needs of Limited.
But it does lead one to ask the question: if it's a mostly monocolored block, do we need any dual lands at all? I think the answer is yes, but I also think the expectation of players is that there will be dual lands in every block now, even if they are crappy duals that aren't as good as a previous set's. So, yeah, they aren't the best rares, but not every set can have amazing duals.
You get major, major props for saying "lead one to ask the question" instead of "begs the question".
For those of you struggling to figure out how to build these into a deck, one very easy tip is this:
Count each land that comes into play tapped as a 1-drop. That way, when you're building your curve, you can help maximize the advantage that these provide.
For example, say that you're building a very aggressive R/G aggro deck. You might do 4x Legion Loyalist, 4x Rakdos Cackler, and then 4x of the R/G Scryland. That'll help ensure you hit all of your important drops on time, and it'll even synergize very nicely with making sure that your Burning-Tree Emissaries will be able to get maximum value.
All of those sets had cards that are played in top tier decks, but right now there are only 6 cards that even have a chance in Modern. Of those, maybe 2-3 will actually be played (I'm probably overvaluing Nykthos, Sylvan Caryatid, and Thassa). That is way less than Innistrad, Return to Ravnica, M13, or even Gatecrash and Dark Ascension. And I know, only half the set is spoiled, but multiply that number by 2. There are still only 4-6 Modern playable cards in the set, which is still less than Return to Ravnica and Innistrad.
u name cards from what 6 different sets? and expect theros to have as many? after not even the half is spoiled?
CIPT lands have to be really good in order to be playable in competetive formats and these are not. I mean Scry is a very helpful effect, but it gives your opponent a time walk way too often. Maybe some T2 control decks will find a place for like two copies.
These will obviously see play in standard
It has nothing to do with how good they are in a vacuum but the lack of better duals to use
48 cards/6 sets=average of 8 playable cards per set, which was the persons point.
and my point is, that not even the best players in the world can currently say: "this theros cards will see modern play, and this not" thats not even possible for standard.
do you remember when falkenrath aristocrat was already out for several month and its price dropped to like 3€? because noone wanted to play him?
and suddenly someone saw: "wow he is better than i thought", after he tested him and then he suddenly became a 15€ card.
so not even for standard its possible to tell which card will be good and which will not 100%. For the much bigger cardpool of modern its even more imposible... so if someone says now konwing 100 cards of the set: "only 4 of them are modern playable". is just very arrogant and denies the fact that actualy he has no idea which card will see modern play and which not.
(Reprints count from the first Modern legal set that they were printed in, which is why the shocklands aren't counted)
I want Theros to be at least at Gatecrash level, probably closer to Innistrad level. M14 and Dragon's Maze were really disappointing for me. As it is now, we have 6 possible candidates, of which only a couple will probably work. I know that only half the set is spoiled, but few of the cards that people think are good are actually good. Look at M14. There were over 20 cards that people thought could be playable. The only one that was was Scavenging Ooze (we're still working on Young Pyromancer). If we double the amount of cards spoiled that might be playable because half the set isn't spoiled, and only 1 in 10 are playable, then this will be a horrible set for Modern because only 1 or 2 cards will be playable. And about what you said in an earlier post about how we should just be glad that they are reprinting Thoughtseize, that won't change the meta at all. All it will do is make some decks cheaper. We in Modern want new cards that are playable, not reprints of old ones.
read the rest of my post... you CANT know yet how many cards of the already spoiled once are playable in modern.
Okay then. I suppose this isn't enough proof for you
Cavalry Pegasus-Human tribal doesn't exist in Modern and this wouldn't be enough to make them viable. Also, creatures in Modern either need to be really good for their mana costs, do something when they enter the battlefield, or not die to Lightning Bolt. Cavalry Pegasus does not meet any of these criteria.
Celestial Archon-Far too expensive. Cards that cost even 5 mana have to be amazing (Thundermaw Hellkite) and even those don't get played that much. And anything any more expensive than that will only get played in Tron and Scapeshift, so the bestow cost is unplayable. I'd rather use Angelic Destiny.
Chained to Rocks-If you have white mana and mountains, you are better off with Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt as your removal.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion-Too much mana. Even Elspeth, Knight Errant doesn't see huge amounts of play, so this certainly won't.
Gift of Immortality-Too slow, use Indestructibility instead.
Glare of Heresy-Too narrow and sorcery speed.
Gods Willing-Would be playable if you didn't have to be proactive in Modern. I guess that this might see play in fringe decks, but Modern already has Brave the Elements, which is better than this in the decks that this would see play in.
Heliod, God of the Sun-Vigilance and 4 mana to create a 2/1 creature rarely matter, so it is a 4 mana 5/6 indestructible creature with a drawback. Reasonable, but not good enough.
Hundred-Handed One-Too expensive for too little gain.
Observant Alseid-Too expensive for too little gain.
Phalanx Leader-Fails the bolt test, is a 1/1 for 2 mana, has no immediate board impact, and what are you going to target him with anyways?
Vanquish the Foul-Overcosted.
Wingsteed Rider-Fails the bolt test, too expensive for too little gain, there aren't any good spells to target it with.
Artisan of Forms-Fails the bolt test, very few spells to target it with, Phantasmal Image is better.
Bident of Thassa-Not worth it. Coastal Piracy isn't used in Modern, and Coastal Piracy with a mediocre ability won't be either.
Curse of the Swine-Any decks that would want to cast this either can't afford the mana cost or can easily use Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict, or Oblivion Stone instead.
Lost in a Labyrinth-We are desperate for 1 mana scry, but we aren't that desperate. It requires that your opponent has creatures and you will only want to use it on combat-focused ones. Even then, it is just a blue Healing Salve that scries.
Master of Waves-Now if this cost 3 mana, created merfolk tokens, or buffed merfolk, then it would see play in Modern merfolk. Right now it costs too much for a deck with low amounts of lands and isn't much better than using more lords.
Nimbus Naiad-Too expensive for too little gain.
Omenspeaker-Sea Gate Oracle isn't played in Modern, why would this be?
Sealock Monster-Overcosted and generally useless.
Shipbreaker Kraken-Too much mana.
Thassa's Emissary-Overcosted.
Thassa, God of the Sea-Finally, we've gotten to a card that might be playable in Modern. 3 mana is playable, scrying 1 is a nice effect, making creatures unblockable is nice, and it is a 5/5 indestructible. However, the only deck that she might fit in in Modern is Merfolk and even there it is only a maybe due to her not involving Merfolk and her second ability is useless with all of Merfolk's islandwalk and Spreading Seas.
Triton Fortune Hunter-And what are you going to target it with? There aren't really any good spells in Modern that target creatures and don't kill them.
Voyage's End-For this much mana we get Echoing Truth as our bounce spell. Scry 1 is not worth losing that much power.
Wavecrash Triton-Too expensive for too little gain. Also, heroic really doesn't work in Modern.
Abhorrent Overlord-Costs way too much to see play in Modern.
Erebos, God of the Dead-I like him, but lifegain isn't common in Modern, mono-black midrange doesn't exist, and everyone is losing enough life in Modern due to shocks, fetches, Dark Confidant, and Dismember for people to want to consistently use his drawing ability.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel-Not sure if this is overcosted, but it definately costs too much to see play in Modern.
Nighthowler-I love this card and I am going to play it in Modern, but that is because I have a custom-made mill deck that wins with cards like Jace's Phantasm. It won't see any competitive play.
Read the Bones-Could see play in Mono-black control, but that deck isn't a major deck and this isn't good enough to make it one.
Rescue from the Underworld-Rise from the Grave gets you the creature immediately from any graveyard without sacrificing a creature, and that card is not played at all in Modern.
Thoughtseize-Amazing card for Modern, but reprinting it will just make decks cheaper and won't change the metagame much at all. Also, reprints don't count.
Akroan Crusader-I like this card, but it is not for Modern. It's a 1 mana 1/1 with no immediate impact on the board that needs a specific type of cards to work.
Ember Swallower-Far too expensive.
Flamespeaker Adept-Too much mana and requires a narrow subset of cards.
Hammer of Purphoros-Could see play, but unlikely. Fervor sees no play and the second ability is not good enough to see play.
Lightning Strike-Searing Spear sees no play in Modern. This won't either.
Magma Jet-Good card, but reprints don't count.
Ordeal of Purphoros-And you aren't just casting Lightning Bolt why? It is too slow, costs too much mana, is an aura, and the effect isn't optional.
Peak Eruption-Molten Rain is just better, and that doesn't even see much play.
Purphoros, God of the Forge-This card might be playable. I don't think that there is any deck that he could fit in right now. People will try to use him, but I don't think there is anything that would work for him right now.
Purphoros's Emissary-Overcosted.
Rageblood Shaman-Minotaur tribal is probably never going to be a thing in Modern.
Spearpoint Oread-Overcosted.
Stoneshock Giant-Overcosted.
Stormbreath Dragon-Now this card I believe will be played. It is better than Thundermaw Hellkite and will probably replace it in the decks that run it. However, Thundermaw Hellkite is run in very few decks and even then only in small numbers, so this won't see much play.
Titan of Eternal Fire-Too much mana for too little gain.
Two-Headed Cerebus-Overcosted.
Anthousa, Setessan Hero-Too much mana. It won't have an effect until turn 6.
Arbor Colossus-There are many green fatties that are better than this. It sldo costs too much mana.
Bow of Nyela-It might see fringe play. It is versatile, but it is not good enough at any one thing to be used competitively.
Commune with the Gods-There isn't a home for it in Modern right now, but it is a unique effect and there might eventually be a deck that it can fit in.
Hunt the Hunter-Too slow and too narrow. It is useless.
Karametra's Acolyte-Costs too much mana.
Leafcrown Dryad-Reasonably costed, but nothing in this cycle actually does anything good.
Nessian Asp-Too much mana for too little gain.
Nyela, God of the Hunt-Horrible activated ability, and there are many cheaper alternatives. Could see play, but I'm gueessing it won't.
Polukranos, World Eater-If it was only XG in the monstrosity cost it would be great in Modern. The second X kills it.
Reverent Hunter-All green beaters in Modern must be compared to Tarmogoyf. This costs more and is usually less powerful. It won't see Modern play.
Satyr Hedonist-It is not a good mana fixer and it is too easy to kill it before you can use it to accelerate your mana.
Sylvan Caryatid-This might see play in decks that currently run Birds of Paradise or Wall of Roots. This is probably around as good as these and might be split with them.
Anax and Cymede-Heroic really doesn't work in Modern. This also dies to both Bolt and Pyroclasm. If only heroic worked with storm.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver-Dies to aggro, dies to control, dies to midrange. It is kind of bad.
Battlewise Hoplite-Heroic. Doesn't. Work. In. Modern.
Daxos of Meletis-This has no protection against removal, is too likely to hit a land or a card that you don't want to cast, and it has to contend with Geist of Saint Traftat the exact same mana cost.
Destructive Revelry-This will probably replace Smash to Smithereens in sideboards.
Fleecemane Lion-Could see play, but last I checked Watchwolf doesn't see play in Modern and this will probably be killed before you can activate its monstrosity ability.
Kragma Warcaller-Minotaur tribal will not be a thing in Modern.
Medomai the Ageless-Too expensive and vulnerable for its effect.
Polis Crusher-Too much mana for too little gain. There aren't many good enchantments in Modern, so this won't be used.
Prophet of Kruphix-In Modern, you don't play many 5 drops in decks other than ramp decks. You don't play any 5 drops that die to Bolt.
Reaper of the Wild-Great card, but not good enough to take Huntmaster of the Fells place in Jund.
Tymaret, the Murder King-It can't hit creatures and takes way too much mana to use. It is also really slow.
Underworld Cerebrus-Probably too expensive, but could see play as a curve-topper in a few decks.
Xenagos, the Reveler-I'm not sure about this one. It could be used in Gruul Zoo, but I don't think it would be that good for 4 mana.
Pyxis of Pandemonium-While it will be used in Top control, that is not a particularly good deck.
Witches's Eye-Who would pay 2 mana, plus 1 mana each turn and tap a creature to just scry 1?
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx-This actually seems like it might inspire a new build.
The Temple cycle-If these had basic land types they would see play. As is, they are nowhere near as good as the fetch-shock manabase or even the scar lands or the filter lands.
So there you have it. 7 cards that might be playable in Modern so far. If we follow the metric for M14, maybe 1/10 of the cards that people think are playable will be playable. Right now, that is less than one card. If we are lucky, there might be 2 Modern playable cards in the entire large set. That is not a good thing.
whats that kind of an argument? shocks are better than checklands too, still checklands were played together with shocks? oO so why shouldnt scry-lands not be played togetehr with shocks?
You ignored the half of my post talking about the new block having a mono color mechanic.
i think thats a perfect decicion, and i wouldnt change anything in it if i could.
I disagree. In fact I think that all rare lands shouldn't be rare especially because of limited. If it were up to me, shocks should be uncommon, it would make drafting much more FUN.
yes, i seriously do. they are not MUCH better, but they are better. And if you would have read anything about what i said too, or what maro said. you would understand the reason, why these are rare and not uncommon. maro said by himself, that they COULD have been uncommon. because they were somewhere between uncommon and rare.
but they had their reason to make it rare, which i wont repeat now again.
just read the last few sides and you mb will understand it.
This is why we are arguing about this, because we don't buy the maro explanation. For all we know maro could be the marketing department's puppet and they can interfere however they want and he has to come up with excuses.
I disagree. In fact I think that all rare lands shouldn't be rare especially because of limited. If it were up to me, shocks should be uncommon, it would make drafting much more FUN.
I do play limited. The point is, that complaining about the rarity is moot because it is already done. You play with the cards you crack/draft. Everyone has the same opportunities/possibilities as you, so it doesn't matter. So, you are on the same footing.
Halimar Depths isn't scrying. You can't get a bad card out of the way. The two effects are similar but not necessarily equivalent. Personally I'd rather scry than have a free 3 card Index.
Why do you have a "bad" card in your deck?
If you can't use it in three turns,
It probably shouldn't be in your deck to begin with.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I'm excited for these lands, but think they could've gone farther to keep with the theme.
I'm sure this idea has came up.. but I can't go through the whole thread again.
Instead of just lands they could be "Temple Lands" or "Devotion Lands" then they could have all of the Temple Lands count towards devotion for the gods. Maybe make them artifact lands because it would fit so well with the theme.
Being that temple is a place of worship, it would make sense, imo, to have the temple count towards the devotion. But that would probably cause the devotion costs to rise, but then everyone who uses gods would run 4 of each land even with mono color probably... I dunno, but I think with how much hype this set has, they could've played more into the gods that way. Either way, I'm still pumped for this set.
Why do you have a "bad" card in your deck?
If you can't use it in three turns,
It probably shouldn't be in your deck to begin with.
Because on occasion 3-land clumps happen? Or the cards that are shown are poor answers to the given board state? Not every card, even good cards, are the best or even going to help you at all in every board state. It's impossible. If what you dig up isn't going to save you or meanginfully alter the given board state it may be better to to scry it away and hope for something with a bit more impact. The game is pretty fluid, after all, and it doesn't mean you are digging away "bad" cards-just bad draws for a given board state. Which can happen with *any* deck.
Why do you have a "bad" card in your deck?
If you can't use it in three turns,
It probably shouldn't be in your deck to begin with.
This is so wrong I feel you're trolling on purpose but just for the sake of it...
When you are flooded, 3 lands are bad, it could be great to tuck them in for example.
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So, the possibility to prevent land screw in the mid-to late game with aggro is win more? Yes. I want to keep drawing lands instead of more threats when I play aggro.
If you draw all Dragonskull Summits and Rakdos Guildgates in your opening hand, I would much rather have Scry Lands.
Are you literate? Or are you just glancing at what is written and ready to fire back what you have already decided you were going to say?
But it does lead one to ask the question: if it's a mostly monocolored block, do we need any dual lands at all? I think the answer is yes, but I also think the expectation of players is that there will be dual lands in every block now, even if they are crappy duals that aren't as good as a previous set's. So, yeah, they aren't the best rares, but not every set can have amazing duals.
I could care less what the rarity of the card is. I look at the cards that are available in a set and make it happen. I don't pine over what "should be" or "this card printed in the past was better..."
I wasn't saying that Theros was designed for Modern. I was saying that it is the first set that was designed after Modern was announced. Because of this, they should actually be doing some design for it. I don't expect much, but I do expect there to be at least 8 Modern playable cards (that includes sideboard cards) in each large set. I'm still expecting a card that will actually see play in Modern (For examples since Modern was announced, see Scavenging Ooze, Voice of Resurgence, Skullcrack, Boros Charm, Experiment One, Legion Loyalist, Domri Rade, Ghor-Clan Rampager, Deathrite Shaman, Goblin Electromancer, Abrupt Decay, Ethereal Armor, Rest in Peace, Izzet Charm, Loleth Troll, Nivmagus Elemental, Loxodon Smiter, Slaughter Games, Sphinx's Revelation, Rakdos Charm, Supreme Verdict, Epic Experiment, Rancor, Master of the Pearl Trident, Thundermaw Hellkite, Flinthoof Boar, Faith's Reward, Griselbrand, Vexing Devil, Zealous Conscripts, Restoration Angel, Lingering Souls, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Huntmaster of the Fells, Grafdigger's Cage, Olivia Voldaren, Intangible Virtue, Midnight Haunting, Delver of Secrets, Ancient Grudge, Past in Flames, Garruk Relentless, Gavony Township, Gnaw to the Bone, Snapcaster Mage, Liliana of the Veil, and Geist of Saint Traft.)
All of those sets had cards that are played in top tier decks, but right now there are only 6 cards that even have a chance in Modern. Of those, maybe 2-3 will actually be played (I'm probably overvaluing Nykthos, Sylvan Caryatid, and Thassa). That is way less than Innistrad, Return to Ravnica, M13, or even Gatecrash and Dark Ascension. And I know, only half the set is spoiled, but multiply that number by 2. There are still only 4-6 Modern playable cards in the set, which is still less than Return to Ravnica and Innistrad.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Apparently not, but that was probably a rhetorical question...
People really only look at power level for the formats they play; I know I do. And since I really only play Standard, Casual, and EDH, I tend to dismiss cards more targeted towards Modern, Vintage, and Legacy. (although, to be fair, many of the cards good in those formats are good in standard...)
Never gonna happen. If you don't like complaining, I think staying away from the internet in general would be the best course of action.
//stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg">stat.rumandmonkey.com
No, really. It is the first post on top of page 61 of this thread. It is a good read. I can't argue with what he says. I mean, the scry lands are above average (I'd rather have them than a guild gate).
Plus, I gotta put the advertisement out there for people to rage/quit. Maybe I can get some cards on the cheap
Step 2: Complain about slower multicolor lands, after complaining about pushed multicolor with perfect mana.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
People will always complain. I, for one, find slower but more "powerful" lands than the checks is a good thing. But I guess lack of complaining is frowned upon. So, uh, yeah.
ERMAGHERD ITS THE DERTH OF THE GAEM ERZ WE KNER ET!!11!!one!oneone!1!
...There. Now do I get to join the club of whiny ragenerds?
Quotes:
You get major, major props for saying "lead one to ask the question" instead of "begs the question".
WotC, please hire me already.
Count each land that comes into play tapped as a 1-drop. That way, when you're building your curve, you can help maximize the advantage that these provide.
For example, say that you're building a very aggressive R/G aggro deck. You might do 4x Legion Loyalist, 4x Rakdos Cackler, and then 4x of the R/G Scryland. That'll help ensure you hit all of your important drops on time, and it'll even synergize very nicely with making sure that your Burning-Tree Emissaries will be able to get maximum value.
WotC, please hire me already.
u name cards from what 6 different sets? and expect theros to have as many? after not even the half is spoiled?
These will obviously see play in standard
It has nothing to do with how good they are in a vacuum but the lack of better duals to use
and my point is, that not even the best players in the world can currently say: "this theros cards will see modern play, and this not" thats not even possible for standard.
do you remember when falkenrath aristocrat was already out for several month and its price dropped to like 3€? because noone wanted to play him?
and suddenly someone saw: "wow he is better than i thought", after he tested him and then he suddenly became a 15€ card.
so not even for standard its possible to tell which card will be good and which will not 100%. For the much bigger cardpool of modern its even more imposible... so if someone says now konwing 100 cards of the set: "only 4 of them are modern playable". is just very arrogant and denies the fact that actualy he has no idea which card will see modern play and which not.
Actually, I put them in order for which sets they were in. I'm sorry if it was too hard for you to read. I'll go and type it out for you.
M14-1 playable card
Dragon's Maze-1 playable card
Gatecrash-6 playable cards
Return to Ravnica-14 playable cards
M13-5 playable cards
Avacyn Restored-4 playable cards
Dark Ascension-4 playable cards
Innistrad-12 playable cards
(Reprints count from the first Modern legal set that they were printed in, which is why the shocklands aren't counted)
I want Theros to be at least at Gatecrash level, probably closer to Innistrad level. M14 and Dragon's Maze were really disappointing for me. As it is now, we have 6 possible candidates, of which only a couple will probably work. I know that only half the set is spoiled, but few of the cards that people think are good are actually good. Look at M14. There were over 20 cards that people thought could be playable. The only one that was was Scavenging Ooze (we're still working on Young Pyromancer). If we double the amount of cards spoiled that might be playable because half the set isn't spoiled, and only 1 in 10 are playable, then this will be a horrible set for Modern because only 1 or 2 cards will be playable. And about what you said in an earlier post about how we should just be glad that they are reprinting Thoughtseize, that won't change the meta at all. All it will do is make some decks cheaper. We in Modern want new cards that are playable, not reprints of old ones.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Okay then. I suppose this isn't enough proof for you
Cavalry Pegasus-Human tribal doesn't exist in Modern and this wouldn't be enough to make them viable. Also, creatures in Modern either need to be really good for their mana costs, do something when they enter the battlefield, or not die to Lightning Bolt. Cavalry Pegasus does not meet any of these criteria.
Celestial Archon-Far too expensive. Cards that cost even 5 mana have to be amazing (Thundermaw Hellkite) and even those don't get played that much. And anything any more expensive than that will only get played in Tron and Scapeshift, so the bestow cost is unplayable. I'd rather use Angelic Destiny.
Chained to Rocks-If you have white mana and mountains, you are better off with Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt as your removal.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion-Too much mana. Even Elspeth, Knight Errant doesn't see huge amounts of play, so this certainly won't.
Gift of Immortality-Too slow, use Indestructibility instead.
Glare of Heresy-Too narrow and sorcery speed.
Gods Willing-Would be playable if you didn't have to be proactive in Modern. I guess that this might see play in fringe decks, but Modern already has Brave the Elements, which is better than this in the decks that this would see play in.
Heliod, God of the Sun-Vigilance and 4 mana to create a 2/1 creature rarely matter, so it is a 4 mana 5/6 indestructible creature with a drawback. Reasonable, but not good enough.
Hundred-Handed One-Too expensive for too little gain.
Observant Alseid-Too expensive for too little gain.
Phalanx Leader-Fails the bolt test, is a 1/1 for 2 mana, has no immediate board impact, and what are you going to target him with anyways?
Vanquish the Foul-Overcosted.
Wingsteed Rider-Fails the bolt test, too expensive for too little gain, there aren't any good spells to target it with.
Artisan of Forms-Fails the bolt test, very few spells to target it with, Phantasmal Image is better.
Bident of Thassa-Not worth it. Coastal Piracy isn't used in Modern, and Coastal Piracy with a mediocre ability won't be either.
Curse of the Swine-Any decks that would want to cast this either can't afford the mana cost or can easily use Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict, or Oblivion Stone instead.
Gainsay-Dispel is just better.
Lost in a Labyrinth-We are desperate for 1 mana scry, but we aren't that desperate. It requires that your opponent has creatures and you will only want to use it on combat-focused ones. Even then, it is just a blue Healing Salve that scries.
Master of Waves-Now if this cost 3 mana, created merfolk tokens, or buffed merfolk, then it would see play in Modern merfolk. Right now it costs too much for a deck with low amounts of lands and isn't much better than using more lords.
Nimbus Naiad-Too expensive for too little gain.
Omenspeaker-Sea Gate Oracle isn't played in Modern, why would this be?
Sealock Monster-Overcosted and generally useless.
Shipbreaker Kraken-Too much mana.
Thassa's Emissary-Overcosted.
Thassa, God of the Sea-Finally, we've gotten to a card that might be playable in Modern. 3 mana is playable, scrying 1 is a nice effect, making creatures unblockable is nice, and it is a 5/5 indestructible. However, the only deck that she might fit in in Modern is Merfolk and even there it is only a maybe due to her not involving Merfolk and her second ability is useless with all of Merfolk's islandwalk and Spreading Seas.
Triton Fortune Hunter-And what are you going to target it with? There aren't really any good spells in Modern that target creatures and don't kill them.
Voyage's End-For this much mana we get Echoing Truth as our bounce spell. Scry 1 is not worth losing that much power.
Wavecrash Triton-Too expensive for too little gain. Also, heroic really doesn't work in Modern.
Abhorrent Overlord-Costs way too much to see play in Modern.
Cavern Lampad-Overcosted.
Dark Betrayal-Too narrow. If I want black removal, there is always Victim of Night, Doom Blade, and Go for the Throat. Even Deathmark is better than this.
Erebos, God of the Dead-I like him, but lifegain isn't common in Modern, mono-black midrange doesn't exist, and everyone is losing enough life in Modern due to shocks, fetches, Dark Confidant, and Dismember for people to want to consistently use his drawing ability.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel-Not sure if this is overcosted, but it definately costs too much to see play in Modern.
Nighthowler-I love this card and I am going to play it in Modern, but that is because I have a custom-made mill deck that wins with cards like Jace's Phantasm. It won't see any competitive play.
Read the Bones-Could see play in Mono-black control, but that deck isn't a major deck and this isn't good enough to make it one.
Rescue from the Underworld-Rise from the Grave gets you the creature immediately from any graveyard without sacrificing a creature, and that card is not played at all in Modern.
Thoughtseize-Amazing card for Modern, but reprinting it will just make decks cheaper and won't change the metagame much at all. Also, reprints don't count.
Akroan Crusader-I like this card, but it is not for Modern. It's a 1 mana 1/1 with no immediate impact on the board that needs a specific type of cards to work.
Ember Swallower-Far too expensive.
Flamespeaker Adept-Too much mana and requires a narrow subset of cards.
Hammer of Purphoros-Could see play, but unlikely. Fervor sees no play and the second ability is not good enough to see play.
Lightning Strike-Searing Spear sees no play in Modern. This won't either.
Magma Jet-Good card, but reprints don't count.
Ordeal of Purphoros-And you aren't just casting Lightning Bolt why? It is too slow, costs too much mana, is an aura, and the effect isn't optional.
Peak Eruption-Molten Rain is just better, and that doesn't even see much play.
Purphoros, God of the Forge-This card might be playable. I don't think that there is any deck that he could fit in right now. People will try to use him, but I don't think there is anything that would work for him right now.
Purphoros's Emissary-Overcosted.
Rageblood Shaman-Minotaur tribal is probably never going to be a thing in Modern.
Spearpoint Oread-Overcosted.
Stoneshock Giant-Overcosted.
Stormbreath Dragon-Now this card I believe will be played. It is better than Thundermaw Hellkite and will probably replace it in the decks that run it. However, Thundermaw Hellkite is run in very few decks and even then only in small numbers, so this won't see much play.
Titan of Eternal Fire-Too much mana for too little gain.
Two-Headed Cerebus-Overcosted.
Anthousa, Setessan Hero-Too much mana. It won't have an effect until turn 6.
Arbor Colossus-There are many green fatties that are better than this. It sldo costs too much mana.
Bow of Nyela-It might see fringe play. It is versatile, but it is not good enough at any one thing to be used competitively.
Commune with the Gods-There isn't a home for it in Modern right now, but it is a unique effect and there might eventually be a deck that it can fit in.
Hunt the Hunter-Too slow and too narrow. It is useless.
Karametra's Acolyte-Costs too much mana.
Leafcrown Dryad-Reasonably costed, but nothing in this cycle actually does anything good.
Nessian Asp-Too much mana for too little gain.
Nyela, God of the Hunt-Horrible activated ability, and there are many cheaper alternatives. Could see play, but I'm gueessing it won't.
Polukranos, World Eater-If it was only XG in the monstrosity cost it would be great in Modern. The second X kills it.
Reverent Hunter-All green beaters in Modern must be compared to Tarmogoyf. This costs more and is usually less powerful. It won't see Modern play.
Satyr Hedonist-It is not a good mana fixer and it is too easy to kill it before you can use it to accelerate your mana.
Sylvan Caryatid-This might see play in decks that currently run Birds of Paradise or Wall of Roots. This is probably around as good as these and might be split with them.
Anax and Cymede-Heroic really doesn't work in Modern. This also dies to both Bolt and Pyroclasm. If only heroic worked with storm.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver-Dies to aggro, dies to control, dies to midrange. It is kind of bad.
Battlewise Hoplite-Heroic. Doesn't. Work. In. Modern.
Daxos of Meletis-This has no protection against removal, is too likely to hit a land or a card that you don't want to cast, and it has to contend with Geist of Saint Traftat the exact same mana cost.
Destructive Revelry-This will probably replace Smash to Smithereens in sideboards.
Fleecemane Lion-Could see play, but last I checked Watchwolf doesn't see play in Modern and this will probably be killed before you can activate its monstrosity ability.
Kragma Warcaller-Minotaur tribal will not be a thing in Modern.
Medomai the Ageless-Too expensive and vulnerable for its effect.
Polis Crusher-Too much mana for too little gain. There aren't many good enchantments in Modern, so this won't be used.
Prophet of Kruphix-In Modern, you don't play many 5 drops in decks other than ramp decks. You don't play any 5 drops that die to Bolt.
Reaper of the Wild-Great card, but not good enough to take Huntmaster of the Fells place in Jund.
Tymaret, the Murder King-It can't hit creatures and takes way too much mana to use. It is also really slow.
Underworld Cerebrus-Probably too expensive, but could see play as a curve-topper in a few decks.
Xenagos, the Reveler-I'm not sure about this one. It could be used in Gruul Zoo, but I don't think it would be that good for 4 mana.
Pyxis of Pandemonium-While it will be used in Top control, that is not a particularly good deck.
Witches's Eye-Who would pay 2 mana, plus 1 mana each turn and tap a creature to just scry 1?
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx-This actually seems like it might inspire a new build.
The Temple cycle-If these had basic land types they would see play. As is, they are nowhere near as good as the fetch-shock manabase or even the scar lands or the filter lands.
So there you have it. 7 cards that might be playable in Modern so far. If we follow the metric for M14, maybe 1/10 of the cards that people think are playable will be playable. Right now, that is less than one card. If we are lucky, there might be 2 Modern playable cards in the entire large set. That is not a good thing.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Cause you probably don't play limited.
You ignored the half of my post talking about the new block having a mono color mechanic.
Yes, because I'm stating my opinion, while you just do the opposite by saying "they are not", taking your opinion as fact
I disagree. In fact I think that all rare lands shouldn't be rare especially because of limited. If it were up to me, shocks should be uncommon, it would make drafting much more FUN.
This is why we are arguing about this, because we don't buy the maro explanation. For all we know maro could be the marketing department's puppet and they can interfere however they want and he has to come up with excuses.
Would make Modern much cheaper too.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I do play limited. The point is, that complaining about the rarity is moot because it is already done. You play with the cards you crack/draft. Everyone has the same opportunities/possibilities as you, so it doesn't matter. So, you are on the same footing.
Why do you have a "bad" card in your deck?
If you can't use it in three turns,
It probably shouldn't be in your deck to begin with.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I'm sure this idea has came up.. but I can't go through the whole thread again.
Instead of just lands they could be "Temple Lands" or "Devotion Lands" then they could have all of the Temple Lands count towards devotion for the gods. Maybe make them artifact lands because it would fit so well with the theme.
Being that temple is a place of worship, it would make sense, imo, to have the temple count towards the devotion. But that would probably cause the devotion costs to rise, but then everyone who uses gods would run 4 of each land even with mono color probably... I dunno, but I think with how much hype this set has, they could've played more into the gods that way. Either way, I'm still pumped for this set.
Because on occasion 3-land clumps happen? Or the cards that are shown are poor answers to the given board state? Not every card, even good cards, are the best or even going to help you at all in every board state. It's impossible. If what you dig up isn't going to save you or meanginfully alter the given board state it may be better to to scry it away and hope for something with a bit more impact. The game is pretty fluid, after all, and it doesn't mean you are digging away "bad" cards-just bad draws for a given board state. Which can happen with *any* deck.
This is so wrong I feel you're trolling on purpose but just for the sake of it...
When you are flooded, 3 lands are bad, it could be great to tuck them in for example.