welp, just bought myself a couple more playsets of various shocks that i don't have decks for yet just because i'm sure that they're going to go up in price. I'm guessing once everyone wakes up and sees the spoiled duals, they're going to adjust their price on the shocklands accordingly..if i'm wrong correct me, but i think right now is the best time to buy shocks if you still need them.
Sorry, is this a Standard forum? Let me check...no this is a thread open to all formats. These will be legal in Modern the same time they are legal in Standard, so my opinion is perfectly valid here.
Your opinion is allowed here, but let me point out why the older formats are less important to a new set. I mean if we look at Theros from a Legacy perspective about 99.9999% of the set is completely irrelevant to Legacy. Modern is probably on the basis that about 98% of the set is irrelevant to Modern.
New sets are designed mostly with standard and limited in mind. Of course the set enters legality for both formats at the same time but if all you play is Modern you really won't get much from most sets coming out.
I mean the entire block of RTR had what like 6 or so cards that have shown up in competitive Modern lists not counting reprints?
Again, the issue is that these are taking up rare slots, not that these should not have been printed. Not all sets need to have rare lands, and if this is what Wizards wants to use to shake up Standard they could have done it by printing these at uncommon and given us 5 more cool rare enchantments (for example).
I'm pretty sure these are rare only because R&D didn't want the Theros limited format to have that sort of manafixing frequently available.
I'm pretty sure these are rare only because R&D didn't want the Theros limited format to have that sort of manafixing frequently available.
I'm pretty sure limited could have handled it just fine. Heck, the scry 1 is probably a more useful factor for Limited due to the random nature of their decks, so they would have loved to have these at Uncommon.
I agree with Wizard wanting to limit the 3+ colors deck.
I agree with the art being good.
But honestly.....we already have gates that do the same thing without scry 1. Scry is good, but....do you guys rly want to spend money on this card when you have gates available?
If this card goes for 1$-2$ then ok..i'll buy it. But..being a rare..and taking up a rare slot......while having the power of an uncommon (gates are common, scry 1 makes them Uncommon...NOT rare)...this card will probably be 3$-5$..and that is hugely overpriced.
Love it, glad were getting away from 3 color decks. These can potentially rewrite the meta by limiting the power of 3 colors. Now every competitive deck doesn't have to be 3 colors to be competitive. Aristocrats, Naya Blitz, 3 color control, Jund, Junk Rites, etc. This should lead to a greater variety of decks since people can make 3 color decks still but there will be an actual trade off for splashing a third color.
so our dual lands consist of guild gates, scry lands, and shock lands.
Nothing fast is going to survive with these being our only lands. we only get one set of duals that even has a chance of coming in untapped, which is horrid.
glad i've always been a fan of mono red. it pays at a time like this.
I am curious about the supposed hints and leaks that these lands would be of the Horizon copy or nimbus maze variant. Those cards are far from and nowhere near that type of power.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about too. We had three different supposed leaks regarding the Theros duals. One person claimed they were the Nimbus Maze cycle (implying Nimbus Maze itself + 9 more that do the same thing for all two color combos). Another anonymous person claimed they were NOT Nimbus Maze & co but were actually similar to [/card]Horizon Canopy[/card], but not quite the same. Then the third source (which apparently turned out to be the correct one) said that we were getting five in Theros and the other five in Born of Gods and that they were similar in function to "H__ D__", which everyone assumed was Halimar Depths.
I was convinced that we were actually getting two cycles. One rare cycle that was either Nimbus Maze lands or the "similar to Horizon Canopy" lands, and an uncommon cycle which in fact turned out to be what we got as rares.
So it seems that the Nimbus Maze source was flat out lying and either the "Similar to Horizon Canopy" source was also lying or they somehow confused "Draw a card" with "scry 1", because really the two lands aren't that similar at all.
If this card goes for 1$-2$ then ok..i'll buy it. But..being a rare..and taking up a rare slot......while having the power of an uncommon (gates are common, scry 1 makes them Uncommon...NOT rare)...this card will probably be 3$-5$..and that is hugely overpriced.
I have browsed Ebay listings and I already found $25 playsets of these new lands. And the news is that someone has actually already bought some of them at that price.
Oh, well. I will be playing my Selesnya Guildgates for many months ahead, it seems.
Unless they print a new black sweeper (still possible!) control will mean UWx only, because Supreme Verdict will be mandatory to deal with the insanely pushed RG aggro decks.
Looking at my Bx options right now I'd be hitting myself for 2 life so often that there's no way in hell that I'll get to turn 5 even against a bad draw.
Personally I think not having the duals being "chase rare OMG put them in every set they are going to be $10 each soon anyway" is a good thing. Affordable mana bases are better than those who are insanely expensive.
Which could be even better accomplished with these at uncommon.
I just thought of one reason that WoC is pushing scry so much, including these lands.
Think of all the Legendary enchantments this set has. They are so powerful that it's tempting to put the max amount in your deck, but of course drawing multiples hurts.
So, all the scry lets you EITHER put 4 of the same Legendary in, with having a better chance to scry it away, or put only 1 or 2 in, but have a better chance of finding it at all.
aggro will be playing mono-colored. this doesn't hurt them at all.
this hurts control a lot. you don't get the choice between tapped or untapped. its purely untapped. thats mega bad for control.
also these are not rare lands. these are barely better than gates in a vacuum, and in some decks gates will be better. worst rare duals ever. every other rare dual was either a man land, or came into play untapped with a consequence, very much worth playing it untapped when you absolutely needed it untapped.
Hey, guys, how does it feel to know that no matter how much you complain, no matter how much hubris you have in thinking that you know the game better than WotC, no matter how opinionated you are about how "terrible" these cards are...
How does it feel knowing that none of it's going to change a single thing?
If you want to keep playing Magic, you'll have to adapt, same as you do every year, or you'll just remain terrible at the game.
Personally, I feel nice and warm and fuzzy knowing that Wizards has more integrity than to bow to an ignorant and vocal minority of the playerbase (see the game Cosmic Encounter's most recent expansion for what happens when a company DOES do exactly what complainers say... it's not pretty).
And I feel especially good knowing that MTGS seems to hate these as much as they do... after all, history shows that the correct evaluation of Magic is always the exact opposite of what these forums think.
The scariest part of these god awful lands is a quote in the article itself:
I'm just happy we didn't get the "balanced" versions.
At this point, my hope is that Theros design represents a scaling back in power level for all subsequent sets, and not just a widespread design failure that has afflicted the entire company. Because the design of these cards, and a disproportionate number of others in the set, is alarmingly out of touch with competitive constructed Magic.
Basically my thoughts. We haven't seen the whole set yet but the power level overall is very low (yes, I know Thoughtseize is being reprinted and the gods have a lot of potential in Standard). As a Modern player, the only cards I'm interested in from Theros so far are the reprints, Thoughtseize and Magma Jet.
They printed some pretty crazy stuff from Zendikar to RtR - things like Jace, Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Liliana of the Veil, and Deathrite are dominant in Legacy and among the most powerful cards we've seen since Urza block - and maybe they're trying to roll that back rather than power creep the game into oblivion. Reset with a Masques block, basically. If that's what they're doing I am okay with it, since while it sucks for me as a player of larger formats, I would rather they focus on the long-term health of the game as well as shape Standard in the way they think is necessary since that is the biggest format.
On the other hand, they could just have designed three consecutive low-power sets by accident, in which case I'm disappointed. But I hope that's not what happened.
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These are so bad I'm not even sure they'll be played in standard.
Your opinion is allowed here, but let me point out why the older formats are less important to a new set. I mean if we look at Theros from a Legacy perspective about 99.9999% of the set is completely irrelevant to Legacy. Modern is probably on the basis that about 98% of the set is irrelevant to Modern.
New sets are designed mostly with standard and limited in mind. Of course the set enters legality for both formats at the same time but if all you play is Modern you really won't get much from most sets coming out.
I mean the entire block of RTR had what like 6 or so cards that have shown up in competitive Modern lists not counting reprints?
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
I'm pretty sure these are rare only because R&D didn't want the Theros limited format to have that sort of manafixing frequently available.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
I'm pretty sure limited could have handled it just fine. Heck, the scry 1 is probably a more useful factor for Limited due to the random nature of their decks, so they would have loved to have these at Uncommon.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I agree with Wizard wanting to limit the 3+ colors deck.
I agree with the art being good.
But honestly.....we already have gates that do the same thing without scry 1. Scry is good, but....do you guys rly want to spend money on this card when you have gates available?
If this card goes for 1$-2$ then ok..i'll buy it. But..being a rare..and taking up a rare slot......while having the power of an uncommon (gates are common, scry 1 makes them Uncommon...NOT rare)...this card will probably be 3$-5$..and that is hugely overpriced.
Gates = COMMON
Gates + Scry 1 = UNCOMMON
easy
That's a reprint in the duel decks, not confirmed for Theros.
Stand firm is a card from Fifth Dawn. It's not in Theros, dude.
The new symbol is from DD:Heroes and Monsters.
Not to mention, how long have we been spoiled with a good set of duals in Standard? And how fast Standard has been at recently.
WoTC has wanted to make the format slower, especially with the Check + Shock combo which made standard, even 3-5 color decks absurdly fast.
Sasky for the Sig.
I am in your [PACK]. Watching you... do... something.
Nothing fast is going to survive with these being our only lands. we only get one set of duals that even has a chance of coming in untapped, which is horrid.
glad i've always been a fan of mono red. it pays at a time like this.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about too. We had three different supposed leaks regarding the Theros duals. One person claimed they were the Nimbus Maze cycle (implying Nimbus Maze itself + 9 more that do the same thing for all two color combos). Another anonymous person claimed they were NOT Nimbus Maze & co but were actually similar to [/card]Horizon Canopy[/card], but not quite the same. Then the third source (which apparently turned out to be the correct one) said that we were getting five in Theros and the other five in Born of Gods and that they were similar in function to "H__ D__", which everyone assumed was Halimar Depths.
I was convinced that we were actually getting two cycles. One rare cycle that was either Nimbus Maze lands or the "similar to Horizon Canopy" lands, and an uncommon cycle which in fact turned out to be what we got as rares.
So it seems that the Nimbus Maze source was flat out lying and either the "Similar to Horizon Canopy" source was also lying or they somehow confused "Draw a card" with "scry 1", because really the two lands aren't that similar at all.
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I have browsed Ebay listings and I already found $25 playsets of these new lands. And the news is that someone has actually already bought some of them at that price.
Oh, well. I will be playing my Selesnya Guildgates for many months ahead, it seems.
[/CARD] is uncommon, and these are rare?
Yeah, that makes sense...
Looking at my Bx options right now I'd be hitting myself for 2 life so often that there's no way in hell that I'll get to turn 5 even against a bad draw.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
they hurt both. aggro is now limited in it's deck choice, mono-aggro aside. it can still afford a light splash but that's it.
control on the other hand now must have either tapped lands or pay 2 life, both of which aggro likes to see.
Think of all the Legendary enchantments this set has. They are so powerful that it's tempting to put the max amount in your deck, but of course drawing multiples hurts.
So, all the scry lets you EITHER put 4 of the same Legendary in, with having a better chance to scry it away, or put only 1 or 2 in, but have a better chance of finding it at all.
Brilliant.
aggro will be playing mono-colored. this doesn't hurt them at all.
this hurts control a lot. you don't get the choice between tapped or untapped. its purely untapped. thats mega bad for control.
also these are not rare lands. these are barely better than gates in a vacuum, and in some decks gates will be better. worst rare duals ever. every other rare dual was either a man land, or came into play untapped with a consequence, very much worth playing it untapped when you absolutely needed it untapped.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
How does it feel knowing that none of it's going to change a single thing?
If you want to keep playing Magic, you'll have to adapt, same as you do every year, or you'll just remain terrible at the game.
Personally, I feel nice and warm and fuzzy knowing that Wizards has more integrity than to bow to an ignorant and vocal minority of the playerbase (see the game Cosmic Encounter's most recent expansion for what happens when a company DOES do exactly what complainers say... it's not pretty).
And I feel especially good knowing that MTGS seems to hate these as much as they do... after all, history shows that the correct evaluation of Magic is always the exact opposite of what these forums think.
Trolling warning issued. -viper
WotC, please hire me already.
WotC, please hire me already.
Basically my thoughts. We haven't seen the whole set yet but the power level overall is very low (yes, I know Thoughtseize is being reprinted and the gods have a lot of potential in Standard). As a Modern player, the only cards I'm interested in from Theros so far are the reprints, Thoughtseize and Magma Jet.
They printed some pretty crazy stuff from Zendikar to RtR - things like Jace, Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Liliana of the Veil, and Deathrite are dominant in Legacy and among the most powerful cards we've seen since Urza block - and maybe they're trying to roll that back rather than power creep the game into oblivion. Reset with a Masques block, basically. If that's what they're doing I am okay with it, since while it sucks for me as a player of larger formats, I would rather they focus on the long-term health of the game as well as shape Standard in the way they think is necessary since that is the biggest format.
On the other hand, they could just have designed three consecutive low-power sets by accident, in which case I'm disappointed. But I hope that's not what happened.