Heroe's downfall is nice, but it is just a slightly upgraded murder. Murder is passable, but not all that great.
Killing a planeswalker without Lightning Bolt or Abrupt Decay (both of which do not even kill some of them) or getting rid of most creatures without drawback sounds MUCH better than murder. A mediocre card can easily become much better if you add more versatility to it.
We have two more sets coming with ten two-color gods (and probably other multicolored cards), yet this will be drafted last once all three are out. Seems like the first set in a block (which will be the last set drafted in draft) would be a good place for mana fixing.
I could have sworn in one of the original announcements they said that this block would be drafted normally again. Anyone else see that or am I imagining things?
I'm with Chaosof99 here. There is no such thing as a "right to be upset", as you put it. No one is forcing you to like (or even play) this game, least of all Wizards of the Coast. This feeling of entitlement that WotC should cater to a player's needs, or else that player gets to be pissed at them, is fallacious as heck. It annoys me to no end, and you are, sadly, not the only one acting this way. Not by a long shot. It makes for a bitter forum and it has all but replaced the excitement over and honest discussion (which can be dismissive as well, but in a pleasant way) about new cards and sets.
Edit: The irony, of course, is that replies like this are just as bitter
That's not 100 % true, as a costumers of its product, we can be upset, we can complain, and we can have a bad opinion, the old song of "if you don't like it don't play" it is what I don't like, that conformism, so wizards can do whatever they wan't because if you don't like it don't play it. The problem is that we love magic, and in fact, its some kind of "monopoly".
IF they fail doing something, like banning stoneforge a week after selling all de precon decks with her, we can be upset.
Imagine you go to a restauran, you find a worm in your food, you have right to be upset,imagine the anger if the owner of the restaurant just say " if you don't like it don't eat here, but you can't complain"...
If wizards don't do its job well we can complain as a costumers, that's all.
^And I have to say I like this set, some fails, but seems fun like hell in limited and have some constructed viable cards ( and some to explore)
( Sorry for my english)
I agree and disagree with your argument here.
While I agree that we as a consumer have a right to be upset at something wizards can make, I don't think we have as big of one as people believe they should and you make it sound. We as consumers have a right to voice our opinions and that should help influence the game but we cannot control it. We cannot pick and choose what we want like ordering at a restaurant. I think a better metaphor comparing our rights to complain is more like going to a buffet.
- We cannot choose what is being served.
- We shouldn't complain about what type of food is served. Wizards designed the menu plan to cater to the broader audience and connected each item together to the best of their abilities.
- We can complain if they are seriously failing in the quality of food such as the worm in the food, BUT only when we've actually sampled it. We still haven't even tried the product. Don't complain when the food is too spicy; it's likely not meant for you. If it tastes bad but prepared right, it's meant for someone else and not you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Imagine you go to a restaurant, you find a worm in your food, you have right to be upset,imagine the anger if the owner of the restaurant just say " if you don't like it don't eat here, but you can't complain"...
Unfortunately, in this case a more accurate analogy would be: You go to your favorite restaurant and look at the menu, and they've taken almost all your favorite dishes off the menu and replaced them with boring, unoriginal meals, except they brought back the one good item on the menu, the expensive New York strip steak, and jacked up the price because they knew everyone would eat there just for that.
Everything (well, nearly everything) has a purpose in Magic. A lot of it goes towards making Limited work well, but, you know, there is always enough to cater to every single other audience happy. They usually do well, and I think Theros happily follows in that tradition.
I agree. If you look at Theros from the narrow focus of any one format, you are sure to be disappointed, but a new expansion has several communities, and each one needs to see something in it that they like, and for that to happen, some slots are "taken" for a specific format and those cards were never intended to work in another format.
For example, when a card says "every opponent discards a card" that text is telling you 'I am a multiplayer card, you can play me in other formats, but if you only have one opponent, I am not helping you as much.'
As spoiled, Theros seems to have a really great limited environment, it also has a bunch of fun commanders for EDH, and a couple of gems-hidden or obvious-that will be found out as Standard, Modern, and Legacy staples.
I do think that Innistrad is a better set than Theros, but so much has to happen that me saying this is somewhat silly.
Everyone says that, all the time, about everything.
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“A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he dont want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It aint the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
I could have sworn in one of the original announcements they said that this block would be drafted normally again. Anyone else see that or am I imagining things?
The way you quoted (Theros last once all three sets are out) is currently "normal again" - RtR due to its structure with two large sets first was not in all stages drafted the same way a normal set would be drafted. Drafting the most recent set first was introduced as a permanent change though.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I will say this right now, each color, except one, has one non-permenent card that is a way overcosted common.
White has Vanquish the Foul
Blue Thassa's Bounty
Black Lash of the Whip and a second one Sip of Hemlock (a bit of history flavor in that one.)
Red Boulderfall
and Green... doesn't.
In my opinion black came out on top... Sort of in these. Not that they'll be used for anything besides limited.
There is also an incomplete cycle of off color activation cards. I have a feeling this will be completed, like the dual lands cycle and enemy protection cycle in sets to come.
I will admit that some of this set has me curious, blue looking to be a bit more of an aggressive color with defensive tools, white looks to want to slow down the game, red being pushed more mid-range. Black and green look about the same compared to recent sets in my opinion.
Mmm. Self imposed, and undeserved calls for credit. Yep, thats what that is, right there. So, what about people like me? Who adore this set and are just itching to play it?
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():
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
I could have sworn in one of the original announcements they said that this block would be drafted normally again. Anyone else see that or am I imagining things?
I heard/read nothing of the sort. As far as I know, the block returns to the large/small/small format of the past (last seen during the Scars block), but the draft order of sets should still be reversed and is the standard way of drafting all blocks now.
I could be wrong, though I'm pretty sure I'm correct.
I disagree. I think Blue is the control colour of this set. Vaporkin is the only aggressive card in the entire colour (with perhaps Journey's End as tempo). It's firmly found a place as control, as Thassa's Bounty and Prescient Chimera are great commons for a U/x control deck.
Maybe I am wrong about the pushing away from control in blue, but there is cards like Bident of Thassa, that rewards attacking players, and Master of the Waves, which rewards you committing blue permenents to the battlefield, which can be less of a control strategy.
And cards like Crackling Triton can go in either :symu::symr: a tempo or an aggro build. (Possibly only in limited, but not completely counting it out yet.)
Unfortunately, in this case a more accurate analogy would be: You go to your favorite restaurant and look at the menu, and they've taken almost all your favorite dishes off the menu and replaced them with boring, unoriginal meals, except they brought back the one good item on the menu, the expensive New York strip steak, and jacked up the price because they knew everyone would eat there just for that.
This, B for the next three months has been served a plate of "You have Thoughtseize, shut the **** up" while what we needed was a single good unrestricted removal at 2, or a single good sweeper, or a single good bomb, we didn't even need all three but we got neither and now playing Mono B (even with splash) will be an exercise in masochism while everyone else can play effective Mono color decks with a splash of B because the one card we got benefits them more than it benefits us.
And I'm just really pissed off at the hypocrisy of MaRo saying B needs help and then not delivering anything, or saying they were afraid Reckless Waif would be too good in the same set they printed Delver of Secrets in. Why don't they make it a three color game already if they're never gonna truly push BR to the point they've pushed the others?
This, B for the next three months has been served a plate of "You have Thoughtseize, shut the **** up" while what we needed was a single good unrestricted removal at 2, or a single good sweeper, or a single good bomb, we didn't even need all three but we got neither and now playing Mono B (even with splash) will be an exercise in masochism while everyone else can play effective Mono color decks with a splash of B because the one card we got benefits them more than it benefits us.
And I'm just really pissed off at the hypocrisy of MaRo saying B needs help and then not delivering anything, or saying they were afraid Reckless Waif would be too good in the same set they printed Delver of Secrets in. Why don't they make it a three color game already if they're never gonna truly push BR to the point they've pushed the others?
I don't know if I would go so far as to say black is getting the short end of the stick just quite yet. My original comment about lash of the whip was mostly voicing my dislike that it was made unplayable by merely increasing its cmc by 2-3(!) over what would be reasonable for that effect.
I understand that weak cards are necessary for limited, but there are significantly better ways to go about making cards weak without merely ratcheting up the mana cost until spot removal costs more than sweepers. They could have made it a sorcery, they could have reduced its effect from -4/-4 to -3/-3, they could have restricted its use to the pre-combat main phase, they could even have justified a cmc increase by stapling a secondary effect to the card (something out of place like milling or exiling a random card from a graveyard or something).
It was less a "black gets trash again" thing and more a "this is terrible design" thing. I would have been just as upset by a 5cmc lightning bolt, a 5 cmc cancel, 5 cmc giant growth, 5 cmc oblivion ring, etc.
As for the power-level of black's removal package in standard? Yes it is loosing nice cards like Tragic Slip and Victim of Night, but EVERY deck looses key players every fall due to rotation. Undoubtedly new removal spells will be introduced in the coming months with the next two sets.
Black may very well have enough to work with removal wise as things are.
Doom blade is back, and it has proven itself to be a workhorse removal spell in the past.
Heroe's downfall is simply a Murder most of the time...that may not be ideal but it is FAR from unplayable. Time will tell if planeswalkers in the upcoming standard season are prevalent enough to make the anti-planeswalker portion particularly relevant.
By splashing into other colors, black gains access to the guild charms. Orzhov charm in particular is a nice piece of removal.
A good sweeper and/or finisher for black would be nice. Personally I have my eye on Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx for mono/mostly black decks. Black has a history of having a large number of permanents with heavy black costs. I think if any color has a chance to use Nykthos to push out otherwise prohibitively expensive finishers, it is black. Which would be appropriate considering that Nykthos is the closest thing we've seen to Cabal Coffers in a long time.
Mogis's Marauder is going to be murder in limited. Feels like Torrent of Souls to me in the "Sweet uncommon. Late game, oops you're dead." kind of way.
Well at least sip of hemlock can hit any creature and not just nonblack ones...doubling the cmc is a bit harsh considering that it is also downgraded to a sorcery.
That's sort of what I expect though. Non-conditional removal + positive secondary effect + overcosting for mixing the effects = classic limited removal piece. Slap "its controller loses 2 life" onto lash of the whip or some other little positive effect that you normally wouldn't care to have on removal and I'm satisfied with another constructed-unplayable limited removal piece.
I will make this one complaint and that'll be it: why did they make Shimmering Grotto an uncommon in M14 and then functionally reprint it as a common in the next set? Really why is Wizards making functional reprints with absolutly no need for it? I know no one even played grotto, but i liked the card and it's kind of sad that an entire common land slot is wasted on a functional reprint rather than something fresh.
I will make this one complaint and that'll be it: why did they make Shimmering Grotto an uncommon in M14 and then functionally reprint it as a common in the next set? Really why is Wizards making functional reprints with absolutly no need for it? I know no one even played grotto, but i liked the card and it's kind of sad that an entire common land slot is wasted on a functional reprint rather than something fresh.
I will make this one complaint and that'll be it: why did they make Shimmering Grotto an uncommon in M14 and then functionally reprint it as a common in the next set? Really why is Wizards making functional reprints with absolutly no need for it? I know no one even played grotto, but i liked the card and it's kind of sad that an entire common land slot is wasted on a functional reprint rather than something fresh.
Maybe casual. The land is really low-powered, so its only real purpose outside limited is letting casual players fill up their decks with cheap and easily accessible mana fixing lands. They decided it would help out the casual players if they could use these as 8-ofs. It's just like Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds.
Maybe for future reprint purposes. The land design is really simple and functional, so giving the card multiple names lets them reprint it in a larger variety of settings. It's just like Searing Spear and Lightning Strike.
Killing a planeswalker without Lightning Bolt or Abrupt Decay (both of which do not even kill some of them) or getting rid of most creatures without drawback sounds MUCH better than murder. A mediocre card can easily become much better if you add more versatility to it.
I could have sworn in one of the original announcements they said that this block would be drafted normally again. Anyone else see that or am I imagining things?
I'm with Chaosof99 here. There is no such thing as a "right to be upset", as you put it. No one is forcing you to like (or even play) this game, least of all Wizards of the Coast. This feeling of entitlement that WotC should cater to a player's needs, or else that player gets to be pissed at them, is fallacious as heck. It annoys me to no end, and you are, sadly, not the only one acting this way. Not by a long shot. It makes for a bitter forum and it has all but replaced the excitement over and honest discussion (which can be dismissive as well, but in a pleasant way) about new cards and sets.
Edit: The irony, of course, is that replies like this are just as bitter
I agree and disagree with your argument here.
While I agree that we as a consumer have a right to be upset at something wizards can make, I don't think we have as big of one as people believe they should and you make it sound. We as consumers have a right to voice our opinions and that should help influence the game but we cannot control it. We cannot pick and choose what we want like ordering at a restaurant. I think a better metaphor comparing our rights to complain is more like going to a buffet.
- We cannot choose what is being served.
- We shouldn't complain about what type of food is served. Wizards designed the menu plan to cater to the broader audience and connected each item together to the best of their abilities.
- We can complain if they are seriously failing in the quality of food such as the worm in the food, BUT only when we've actually sampled it. We still haven't even tried the product. Don't complain when the food is too spicy; it's likely not meant for you. If it tastes bad but prepared right, it's meant for someone else and not you.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Unfortunately, in this case a more accurate analogy would be: You go to your favorite restaurant and look at the menu, and they've taken almost all your favorite dishes off the menu and replaced them with boring, unoriginal meals, except they brought back the one good item on the menu, the expensive New York strip steak, and jacked up the price because they knew everyone would eat there just for that.
UUUAzami, Lady of ScrollsUUU
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
WUBSharuum the HegemonWUB
GWURafiq of the ManyGWU
Jhoira of the Ghitu
I agree. If you look at Theros from the narrow focus of any one format, you are sure to be disappointed, but a new expansion has several communities, and each one needs to see something in it that they like, and for that to happen, some slots are "taken" for a specific format and those cards were never intended to work in another format.
For example, when a card says "every opponent discards a card" that text is telling you 'I am a multiplayer card, you can play me in other formats, but if you only have one opponent, I am not helping you as much.'
As spoiled, Theros seems to have a really great limited environment, it also has a bunch of fun commanders for EDH, and a couple of gems-hidden or obvious-that will be found out as Standard, Modern, and Legacy staples.
I do think that Innistrad is a better set than Theros, but so much has to happen that me saying this is somewhat silly.
http://mtgadventures.blogspot.com/
Please check out my youtube channel at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/rubiera22/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Totally called it.
Everyone says that, all the time, about everything.
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
The way you quoted (Theros last once all three sets are out) is currently "normal again" - RtR due to its structure with two large sets first was not in all stages drafted the same way a normal set would be drafted. Drafting the most recent set first was introduced as a permanent change though.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
White has Vanquish the Foul
Blue Thassa's Bounty
Black Lash of the Whip and a second one Sip of Hemlock (a bit of history flavor in that one.)
Red Boulderfall
and Green... doesn't.
In my opinion black came out on top... Sort of in these. Not that they'll be used for anything besides limited.
There is also an incomplete cycle of off color activation cards. I have a feeling this will be completed, like the dual lands cycle and enemy protection cycle in sets to come.
I will admit that some of this set has me curious, blue looking to be a bit more of an aggressive color with defensive tools, white looks to want to slow down the game, red being pushed more mid-range. Black and green look about the same compared to recent sets in my opinion.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Mmm. Self imposed, and undeserved calls for credit. Yep, thats what that is, right there. So, what about people like me? Who adore this set and are just itching to play it?
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
I heard/read nothing of the sort. As far as I know, the block returns to the large/small/small format of the past (last seen during the Scars block), but the draft order of sets should still be reversed and is the standard way of drafting all blocks now.
I could be wrong, though I'm pretty sure I'm correct.
Maybe I am wrong about the pushing away from control in blue, but there is cards like Bident of Thassa, that rewards attacking players, and Master of the Waves, which rewards you committing blue permenents to the battlefield, which can be less of a control strategy.
And cards like Crackling Triton can go in either :symu::symr: a tempo or an aggro build. (Possibly only in limited, but not completely counting it out yet.)
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
This, B for the next three months has been served a plate of "You have Thoughtseize, shut the **** up" while what we needed was a single good unrestricted removal at 2, or a single good sweeper, or a single good bomb, we didn't even need all three but we got neither and now playing Mono B (even with splash) will be an exercise in masochism while everyone else can play effective Mono color decks with a splash of B because the one card we got benefits them more than it benefits us.
And I'm just really pissed off at the hypocrisy of MaRo saying B needs help and then not delivering anything, or saying they were afraid Reckless Waif would be too good in the same set they printed Delver of Secrets in. Why don't they make it a three color game already if they're never gonna truly push BR to the point they've pushed the others?
I don't know if I would go so far as to say black is getting the short end of the stick just quite yet. My original comment about lash of the whip was mostly voicing my dislike that it was made unplayable by merely increasing its cmc by 2-3(!) over what would be reasonable for that effect.
I understand that weak cards are necessary for limited, but there are significantly better ways to go about making cards weak without merely ratcheting up the mana cost until spot removal costs more than sweepers. They could have made it a sorcery, they could have reduced its effect from -4/-4 to -3/-3, they could have restricted its use to the pre-combat main phase, they could even have justified a cmc increase by stapling a secondary effect to the card (something out of place like milling or exiling a random card from a graveyard or something).
It was less a "black gets trash again" thing and more a "this is terrible design" thing. I would have been just as upset by a 5cmc lightning bolt, a 5 cmc cancel, 5 cmc giant growth, 5 cmc oblivion ring, etc.
As for the power-level of black's removal package in standard? Yes it is loosing nice cards like Tragic Slip and Victim of Night, but EVERY deck looses key players every fall due to rotation. Undoubtedly new removal spells will be introduced in the coming months with the next two sets.
Black may very well have enough to work with removal wise as things are.
Doom blade is back, and it has proven itself to be a workhorse removal spell in the past.
Heroe's downfall is simply a Murder most of the time...that may not be ideal but it is FAR from unplayable. Time will tell if planeswalkers in the upcoming standard season are prevalent enough to make the anti-planeswalker portion particularly relevant.
By splashing into other colors, black gains access to the guild charms. Orzhov charm in particular is a nice piece of removal.
Black even has access to a variety of edict effects between Devour Flesh, Far/Away, and Agent of the Fates.
A good sweeper and/or finisher for black would be nice. Personally I have my eye on Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx for mono/mostly black decks. Black has a history of having a large number of permanents with heavy black costs. I think if any color has a chance to use Nykthos to push out otherwise prohibitively expensive finishers, it is black. Which would be appropriate considering that Nykthos is the closest thing we've seen to Cabal Coffers in a long time.
Feel free to tell me yours!
Well at least sip of hemlock can hit any creature and not just nonblack ones...doubling the cmc is a bit harsh considering that it is also downgraded to a sorcery.
That's sort of what I expect though. Non-conditional removal + positive secondary effect + overcosting for mixing the effects = classic limited removal piece. Slap "its controller loses 2 life" onto lash of the whip or some other little positive effect that you normally wouldn't care to have on removal and I'm satisfied with another constructed-unplayable limited removal piece.
1U
Counter target spell for 1. Scry 1.
They couldn't print Condescend? They couldn't print
1U
Counter target spell for 2. Scry 1.
Seriously?!
limited
That's interesting... rather surprised they didn't just make it a weasel or mongoose (which, while inaccurate, they seem similar)
Choose one of these judge of creation:
Make Strionic Resonator shine!
You can not grasp the true form of Ashiok's attack!
Maybe casual. The land is really low-powered, so its only real purpose outside limited is letting casual players fill up their decks with cheap and easily accessible mana fixing lands. They decided it would help out the casual players if they could use these as 8-ofs. It's just like Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds.
Maybe for future reprint purposes. The land design is really simple and functional, so giving the card multiple names lets them reprint it in a larger variety of settings. It's just like Searing Spear and Lightning Strike.
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain