Gatecrash cycle. I guess that isn't too surprising, once you think about it.
To the above - Mythic cycle aren't following Gatecrash cycle, as per Underworld Cerberus.
ahh thanks I had misremembered the colours for cerebus.
A little odd they did that.
Assuming there's 4 more rares left in multi colour to complete the set and the 2 God weapons we haven't seen are also rare that leaves 14 Rares left
Counting the artifact rares we have
5 White Rares
4 Blue
4 Black
4 Red
5 Green
Assuming the rares are balanced among the colours that's another 3 rares to bring them all to 5. However I think there's 1 or 2 more Rares for Green and White, cause I would think there is a rare card for each of the mechanics. Especially given that Theros is more mono/dual than 3 colour decks. Devotion is covered by the gods, but Reverent Archer and Abhorrent Demon have Devotion in Rare so I'm leaning towards devotion as a rare for all 5
Scry is covered by the lands
White has Bestow and Monstrosity in rare, no Devotion or Heroic.
Blue has Heroic And Monstrosity in rare, no Devotion or Bestow
Black Has Devotion and Bestow in rare No Heroic or Monstrosity
Red Has Monstrosity, no Devotion, Bestow or Heroic
Green has Devotion, Monstrosity and Heroic, no Bestow
If I'm right that would be 13 of the 14 rares covered which means there would only be 2 rare artifacts. The other options would have 6 out of 13 artifacts being rare and all non basic lands as rare or 7 out 13 artifacts as rare, both of these feel high to me.
Now that you mention it, I hadn't actually considered the total number of rares when theorizing about cycles. Let's break it down:
We have 53 rares as a large set. With the 10 card guild cycle confirmed, and the 5 duals, that leaves us with 38 rares left. A 7 per colour split seems likely, leaving 2 more artifacts left (or one artifact one land, though currently I think the land will be some random filler a la Rogue's Passage or Shimmering Grotto).
So let's look at what each colour has: White
Celestial Archon (Bestow)
Chained to the Rocks (No Apparent Cycle)
Gift of Immortality (Rare Aura?)
Hundred-Handed One (Monstrosity) Spear of Heliod (God Weapons)
Blue
Artisan of Forms (Heroic)
Bident of Thassa (God Weapon)
Curse of the Swine (No Apparent Cycle)
Shipbreaker Kraken (Monstrosity)
Black
Abhorrent Overlord (Devotion)
Nighthowler (Bestow)
Thoughtseize (No Apparent Cycle) Whip of Erebos (God Weapons)
Red
Ember Swallower (Monstrosity)
Hammer of Purphoros (God Weapons)
Rageblood Shaman (No Apparent Cycle)
Titan of Eternal Fire (No Apparent Cycle)
Green
Anthoussa, Setessian Hero (Heroic)
Arbor Colossus (Monstrosity) Bow of Nylea (God Weapons)
Reverent Hunter (Devotion)
Sylvan Caratid (No Apparent Cycle)
So going down the list, we can at least see the following:
-Heroic (2/5)
-Monstrosity (4/5)
-Bestow (2/5)
-Devotion (2/5)
-God Weapons (3/5)
-Noncycle 1 (5/5)
-Noncycle 2 (1/5)
This perfectly fits with our expected 7 per colour, so Gift can now be included in the noncycles.
EDIT: Guess I should probably follow this through to it's conclusion. At this point, out of the 18 rares remaining (Not counting God Weapons), we can expect to see:
White Heroic Rare
White Devotion Rare
Blue Bestow Rare
Blue Devotion Rare
Blue Noncycle Rare
Black Heroic Rare
Black Monstrosity Rare
Black Noncycle Rare
Red Heroic Rare
Red Bestow Rare (Double Strike much?)
Red Devotion Rare
Green Bestow Rare
Green Noncycle Rare
Dimir Rare
Orzhov Rare
Izzet Rare
Artifact Rare
Artifact/Land Rare (More likely Artifact IMO as we already have Shrine to Nyx)
I considered that, but seeing as Red already has both Rageblood Shaman and Titan of Eternal flame, neither of which seem to have an attached cycle, we can rule out a Gift cycle.
Heck, I even considered grouping Chained, Curse, and Thoughtseize into a "Rare Removal" cycle, but those two didn't fit with that either.
I considered that, but seeing as Red already has both Rageblood Shaman and Titan of Eternal flame, neither of which seem to have an attached cycle, we can rule out a Gift cycle.
Heck, I even considered grouping Chained, Curse, and Thoughtseize into a "Rare Removal" cycle, but those two didn't fit with that either.
I admit I'm a little surprised there isn't a rare aura cycle but I guess that's bestow.
Uncommons
White
Bestow-Emissary
Heroic-Phalanx Leader
Scry-Vanquish the Foul
Blue
Bestow-Emissary
Monstrosity-Sealock Monster
Heroic-Triton Fortune hunter
Black
Bestow - Emissary
Red
Bestow - Emissary
Scry - Magma Jet
Mon - Stoneshock Giant
Green
Bestow - Emmisary
Devotion Karametra's Acolyte
Red has 6 uncommons already and would need two more to complete the cycle (the ordeal is already spoiled so we don't need it for red) so assuming 8 uncommon per colour gives us 40 plus 10 for the multicolour is 50 which would leave 10 total for 13 spots in Artifacts and lands one of which we already know.
That seems a little high, also if we go with 9 uncommons That means we have a 5 cycles of mechanics 1 cycle of ordeals 1 cycle of self hate and only 1 non aligned uncommon. That feels off, I'm thinking 9 uncommons per colour , leaving 4 unspoiled uncommons for artifacts and lands.
Assuming the land is an uncommon we'd have 3 Rare artifacts 4 uncommon and 6 common. If all the lands are rare the we have 2, 5 and 6. 3, 4, and 6 feels right.
So our choices for rarity crunching in Artifacts are 3, 4 or 6, 2, 5, and 6, for 9 uncommons per colour or 3, 9 and 1 or 2, 10 and 1 for 8 uncommons per colour. of course the land could be common too but that's really unlikely, because that would mean no common artifacts.
Why are people assuming that everything must fit into a cycle? It's very possible that some colors don't have all of Monstrosity, Heroic, Devotion, Bestow, and Scry in the rare slot. We haven't seen reason to assume they do.
There must be a common land for mana fixing in limited, and my guess is that it's good old Terramorphic Expanse. It fits the crunch.
This is a set that doesn't want to encourage playing multicolor in limited. Terramorphic Expanse seems like it'd be the opposite of what they'd want. Unstable Frontier seems like a more viable choice, but I think it'll just be some new card.
Black would really love a fast wrath, but I would say there's about a 0% chance of it being Damnation due to the regen clause. XGBB and 4WB don't quite cut it when you're dead turn 4 to a wall of 2/2s. Infest would definitely fit the bill there.
Mortify is possible by virtue of both fitting the crunch and being a (B/W) Uncommon.
Not sure if they want that card in Theros,
but (W/B) is going to need a little help if it can't reliably use a third color.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Mortify is possible by virtue of both fitting the crunch and being a (B/W) Uncommon.
Not sure if they want that card in Theros,
but (W/B) is going to need a little help if it can't reliably use a third color.
Maro is quoted as saying they specifically didn't put it in Ravnica because it would be OP in a Theros environment.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Evil is boring. The universe is friendly. Life is on your side. Joy is your birthright. Cynicism is idiotic. Fear is a bad habit. Despair is lazy. In fact, all of creation wants you to succeed. Act as if the universe is a prodigious miracle created for your amusement and illumination. Assume that secret helpers are working behind the scenes to assist you in turning into the gorgeous masterpiece you were born to be. . . Life always gives you exactly what you need, exactly when you need it.
Junk mana isn't too bad if you keep the green to a splash, I think. It's even better for BUG, though my BWG list is looking a lot healthier. I'm just concerned that BTE decks will continue to be too fast to survive without a 3-4cmc sweeper of some kind.
I doubt Mortify would be printed; BW has access to quite a few enchantment removal spells, and Junk has them all:
How would it be overpowered? The only good enchantments that aren't also creatures are the god weapons.
yet. but i think, we only got the good creatures first, since most people want to see the iconic creatures of the set first. instants, sorcerys and especialy enchantments and auras will follow up soon.
btw: Since im not good at this numbercrunching, does anyone know how many rares and mythics are still missing of each color?
In all seriousness, I would love for a damnation style card. Decks that are without white or red at the moment cannot remove en masse. Something similar to a wrath minus the regen clause would be nice. Maybe something that just removes weenies like previously suggested.
Temple of Abandon
Temple of Deceit
Temple of Mystery
Temple of Silence
Temple of Triumph
The first two seemed obvious, and then I supposed from there.
Owner of IcyGeek.com
Not really, once we got double-ups on U/W and B/R we knew the mythics and rares are clearly different cycles.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
To the above - Mythic cycle aren't following Gatecrash cycle, as per Underworld Cerberus.
And of course names Kragma Warcaller and Fleecemane Lion are now confirmed.
ahh thanks I had misremembered the colours for cerebus.
A little odd they did that.
Assuming there's 4 more rares left in multi colour to complete the set and the 2 God weapons we haven't seen are also rare that leaves 14 Rares left
Counting the artifact rares we have
5 White Rares
4 Blue
4 Black
4 Red
5 Green
Assuming the rares are balanced among the colours that's another 3 rares to bring them all to 5. However I think there's 1 or 2 more Rares for Green and White, cause I would think there is a rare card for each of the mechanics. Especially given that Theros is more mono/dual than 3 colour decks. Devotion is covered by the gods, but Reverent Archer and Abhorrent Demon have Devotion in Rare so I'm leaning towards devotion as a rare for all 5
Scry is covered by the lands
White has Bestow and Monstrosity in rare, no Devotion or Heroic.
Blue has Heroic And Monstrosity in rare, no Devotion or Bestow
Black Has Devotion and Bestow in rare No Heroic or Monstrosity
Red Has Monstrosity, no Devotion, Bestow or Heroic
Green has Devotion, Monstrosity and Heroic, no Bestow
If I'm right that would be 13 of the 14 rares covered which means there would only be 2 rare artifacts. The other options would have 6 out of 13 artifacts being rare and all non basic lands as rare or 7 out 13 artifacts as rare, both of these feel high to me.
Opinions would be welcome.
We have 53 rares as a large set. With the 10 card guild cycle confirmed, and the 5 duals, that leaves us with 38 rares left. A 7 per colour split seems likely, leaving 2 more artifacts left (or one artifact one land, though currently I think the land will be some random filler a la Rogue's Passage or Shimmering Grotto).
So let's look at what each colour has:
White
Celestial Archon (Bestow)
Chained to the Rocks (No Apparent Cycle)
Gift of Immortality (Rare Aura?)
Hundred-Handed One (Monstrosity)
Spear of Heliod (God Weapons)
Blue
Artisan of Forms (Heroic)
Bident of Thassa (God Weapon)
Curse of the Swine (No Apparent Cycle)
Shipbreaker Kraken (Monstrosity)
Black
Abhorrent Overlord (Devotion)
Nighthowler (Bestow)
Thoughtseize (No Apparent Cycle)
Whip of Erebos (God Weapons)
Red
Ember Swallower (Monstrosity)
Hammer of Purphoros (God Weapons)
Rageblood Shaman (No Apparent Cycle)
Titan of Eternal Fire (No Apparent Cycle)
Green
Anthoussa, Setessian Hero (Heroic)
Arbor Colossus (Monstrosity)
Bow of Nylea (God Weapons)
Reverent Hunter (Devotion)
Sylvan Caratid (No Apparent Cycle)
So going down the list, we can at least see the following:
-Heroic (2/5)
-Monstrosity (4/5)
-Bestow (2/5)
-Devotion (2/5)
-God Weapons (3/5)
-Noncycle 1 (5/5)
-Noncycle 2 (1/5)
This perfectly fits with our expected 7 per colour, so Gift can now be included in the noncycles.
EDIT: Guess I should probably follow this through to it's conclusion. At this point, out of the 18 rares remaining (Not counting God Weapons), we can expect to see:
White Heroic Rare
White Devotion Rare
Blue Bestow Rare
Blue Devotion Rare
Blue Noncycle Rare
Black Heroic Rare
Black Monstrosity Rare
Black Noncycle Rare
Red Heroic Rare
Red Bestow Rare (Double Strike much?)
Red Devotion Rare
Green Bestow Rare
Green Noncycle Rare
Dimir Rare
Orzhov Rare
Izzet Rare
Artifact Rare
Artifact/Land Rare (More likely Artifact IMO as we already have Shrine to Nyx)
That's 18 as expected.
Heck, I even considered grouping Chained, Curse, and Thoughtseize into a "Rare Removal" cycle, but those two didn't fit with that either.
I meant that from matching up lands and gold cards.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
I admit I'm a little surprised there isn't a rare aura cycle but I guess that's bestow.
Uncommons
White
Bestow-Emissary
Heroic-Phalanx Leader
Scry-Vanquish the Foul
Blue
Bestow-Emissary
Monstrosity-Sealock Monster
Heroic-Triton Fortune hunter
Black
Bestow - Emissary
Red
Bestow - Emissary
Scry - Magma Jet
Mon - Stoneshock Giant
Green
Bestow - Emmisary
Devotion Karametra's Acolyte
Red has 6 uncommons already and would need two more to complete the cycle (the ordeal is already spoiled so we don't need it for red) so assuming 8 uncommon per colour gives us 40 plus 10 for the multicolour is 50 which would leave 10 total for 13 spots in Artifacts and lands one of which we already know.
That seems a little high, also if we go with 9 uncommons That means we have a 5 cycles of mechanics 1 cycle of ordeals 1 cycle of self hate and only 1 non aligned uncommon. That feels off, I'm thinking 9 uncommons per colour , leaving 4 unspoiled uncommons for artifacts and lands.
Assuming the land is an uncommon we'd have 3 Rare artifacts 4 uncommon and 6 common. If all the lands are rare the we have 2, 5 and 6. 3, 4, and 6 feels right.
So our choices for rarity crunching in Artifacts are 3, 4 or 6, 2, 5, and 6, for 9 uncommons per colour or 3, 9 and 1 or 2, 10 and 1 for 8 uncommons per colour. of course the land could be common too but that's really unlikely, because that would mean no common artifacts.
Just in case Esper removal hadn't reached critical mass lol. Does black need wrath though?
UW Control (:symu: :symw:)
Yeah, actually Infest would be better for black control decks.
This is a set that doesn't want to encourage playing multicolor in limited. Terramorphic Expanse seems like it'd be the opposite of what they'd want. Unstable Frontier seems like a more viable choice, but I think it'll just be some new card.
Not sure if they want that card in Theros,
but (W/B) is going to need a little help if it can't reliably use a third color.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Maro is quoted as saying they specifically didn't put it in Ravnica because it would be OP in a Theros environment.
How would it be overpowered? The only good enchantments that aren't also creatures are the god weapons.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I doubt Mortify would be printed; BW has access to quite a few enchantment removal spells, and Junk has them all:
2 Naturalize
6 Merciless Eviction
3 Gaze of Granite
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Wear/Tear
2 Sundering Growth
3 Solemn Offering
2 Keening Apparition
There is, however, a nice little slot at #100 for Pestilence. I'm sure we can come up with a suitably flavorful excuse for it...
yet. but i think, we only got the good creatures first, since most people want to see the iconic creatures of the set first. instants, sorcerys and especialy enchantments and auras will follow up soon.
btw: Since im not good at this numbercrunching, does anyone know how many rares and mythics are still missing of each color?
Nah, we Esper Mages only have Supreme Verdict, Merciless Eviction, Planar Cleansing, Cyclonic Rift, Doom Blade Far // Away, Devour Flesh, Detention Sphere, and the charms. (There's still more, but my sarcasm can only go so far.)
In all seriousness, I would love for a damnation style card. Decks that are without white or red at the moment cannot remove en masse. Something similar to a wrath minus the regen clause would be nice. Maybe something that just removes weenies like previously suggested.
GWB Junk Stax Ghave BWG