I don't know why anyone thinks Bestow is a "Timmy" mechanic. Like essentially all split card mechanics, it presents the player with a resource utilization puzzle that appeals primarily to Spikes. "Too expensive to see play in competitive constructed" does not automatically mean a card was designed for Timmy. Bloodrush, for instance, is the Spike-iest mechanic we've seen in a long time despite really only producing one constructed card. Bestow presents a very similar tension... "Do I play this now, or wait until I can cast it for full value? I can do multiple things with this card... what's the best for my current situation?"
The most Timmy-centric mechanic we've seen so far is probably Devotion, because it encourages the player to imagine incredible best-case scenarios, and how much fun it will be when the card works that way. "I could get, like, 10 Harpy tokens when I cast this creature! Thassa could a 5/5 unblockable, indestructible creature for 3 mana! So cool!"
Edit:
They were talking about targeting two different Heroic creatures with Martial Glory to get both effects. Each would trigger in that case.
Yep. Devotion just seems like it's kinda saying "Hey, hey! Overextend! It'll be cool!"
Yeah, Monstrosity seems primarily like a Timmy/Spike mechanic (huge monsters/resource utilization questions) and Devotion seems like mostly a Timmy/Johnny mechanic (splashy effects that read as very exciting because of their best-case scenario, and a little deck-building puzzle).
Edit:
They were talking about targeting two different Heroic creatures with Martial Glory to get both effects. Each would trigger in that case. You're correct that you can't get 2 tokens out of one guy with Martial Glory, but, as the post you quoted was saying, you can stack triggers such that you get a token, then your team including the token gets pumped by Anax and Cymede.
Yep. Devotion just seems like it's kinda saying "Hey, hey! Overextend! It'll be cool!"
Come to think of it, Devotion is actually very much a Johnny mechanic. All that downside is mitigated by that time you drop it into a massive board stall as a 17/17. Johnny loves best-case scenarios and expressing just how much a fan he is of his favorite color.
Devotion and Monstrosity are a mix of Timmy and Spike. They both do really viscerally fun things, but also require you to make important value-based decisions.
Most cards of any mechanic are unplayable outside of Limited. For all of the raving over Flashback, less than 1/4th of the cards printed over the course of the entirety of Innistrad block with Flashback were Constructed playable, and counting some of them is very much pushing it. Similarly, almost all of the RtR-block mechanics made it to Constructed in some way (Hands of Binding saw about as much play as some of the worse flashback cards) but only on a card or two.
"This mechanic is unplayable in Constructed, based on two cards I have seen from an entire block" is a really, really useless thing to say. And it's probably wrong.
Most cards, period, aren't playable in serious constructed metagames. Which is one major reason why I almost exclusively play limited now; I get a lot more mileage out of a set when I can actually realistically play with a majority of the cards. Cards like these aren't exciting to someone looking to play Standard, but they're perfectly serviceable and interesting from a Limited perspective.
True that. I personally enjoy constructed more but I make sure to play a decent amount of drafts of each set so I can appreciate all the commons and the set in its entirety as opposed to just the 30 or so cards that are constructed playable out of 200 or so
Exactly. I don't have the time/budget to support both limited and constructed (outside the occasional EDH game) so I stick to limited, since it's the format I honestly get more enjoyment out of.
There will probably be some Bestow cards that are similar in design to Dreg Mangler, pretty efficient creature + the choice to do extra stuff later in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if they printed an uncommon 2/2 or 2/3 for WW that you could bestow for 2WW or maybe 4W that just gave the enchanted creature +2/+2or+3.
Based on Cavern Lampad and the white prerelease thing, bestow is evidently this set's unplayable Timmy mechanic.
Too bad... my hopes were high.
Bestow is a fairly decent mechanic. You get an aura that turns into a creature once the host is removed.
The problem is that we haven't seen any cards where the casting cost/bestow cost is playable.
Flashback is a great mechanic, but you know as well as I do that there are MANY flashback cards whose casting costs/flashback costs are so prohibitive that they are unplayable.
sometimes I forget that Wizards of the Coast do indeed reside on the west coast.
so that'd be 9:00 where I'm at. yay, 34 minutes.
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EDH: URJhoira of the GhituUR(Under con.) BMaralen of the MornsongB UBLazav, Dimir MastermindUB Standard: UMono U DevotionU Casual: GPrimordial Hydra JankinessG
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As much as I'm against the OTT view that this card is going to solo tournaments, cure cancer and make Susan Boyle attractive I'm not really a fan of the opposing camp who think it slaughters puppies and sired Justin Bieber.
Both Bestows so far have been priced as 'slightly under costed Enchantment' + 'slightly over/par costed Creature'.
'2/2 w/ Intimidate' for 4 + 'Enchanted Creature has +2/+2 & Intimidate' for 2
'4/4 w/ Flying & First strike for 5' + 'Enchanted Creature has +4/+4, Flying and First Strike' for 3
I really hope they have fun with this design space and make one that the Bestow cost is cheaper than just casting the creature. A 5 cost creature that Bestows for 3 perhaps? Basically a reverse Nantuko Shaman
Either way, Bestow will be amazing in Limited! You can go all in on one creature and when it gets killed you get dudes? Yes please!
They flat out can not do that. Bestow works in such a way that casting the card as an enchantment is almost always superior to casting it as a creature. If you cast it as a creature it can be hit with creature or enchantment removal and when it does it's gone. If you cast it as an aura it can only be hit directly with enchantment removal otherwise to get rid of it for good you need to remove the creature then remove the bestow creature.
Im no expert on standard or modern but auras that are guaranteed not to be 2 for 1s (with the exception of cards like austere command or decimate) are strong enough on their own that they don't need to be incentivized. If you could get the token from Griffin Guide for 4 mana when casting it as an aura got you a bigger creature and were guaranteed the 2/2 flying not just if the enchanted creature died but if the creature got bounced, exiled or removed while the card was on the stack would you ever cast the 2/2 unless in the most dire of straights?
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From MaRo
Every rarity gets good cards. That means that some mythic rares will be tournament quality as will some commons, some uncommons and some rares. My promise wasn't that mythic rares wouldn't get good cards but that we wouldn't limit the good cards to only being mythic rare.
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
Love that soldier. Makes it a very nice target for your auras, since even if you get 2-for-1ed, you still get a 1/1 out of it.
The Nymph is ok, I guess. 2/2 intimidate for 4 is nothing to write home about, but it sure helps those creatures that themselves don't have intimidate.
In some ways I sort of think of Bestow as an reverse Envoke. Where Envoke allowed you to pay a lesser cost to get an effect at a cost of not getting the creature, Bestow allows you to pay a greater cost to get the effect and then later have the creature. If you want, you can pay the normal cost for either depending on your current needs.
Intimidate, the most cringeworthily ill-conceived keyword ever? Check.
Tokens that get haste but won't have it printed on them because Wizards is too ignorant of the rules of their own game to realize that haste stays relevant after the first turn on the battlefield? Check.
It's like they selected these spoilers specifically to annoy me. Oh well, can't win 'em all...
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Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
Tokens that get haste but won't have it printed on them because Wizards is too ignorant of the rules of their own game to realize that haste stays relevant after the first turn on the battlefield? Check.
Yep. Devotion just seems like it's kinda saying "Hey, hey! Overextend! It'll be cool!"
The theros party is tonight more cards will be revealed. For the RTR party they unveiled the reprinted shocklands and other things.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Yay, misreading!
Come to think of it, Devotion is actually very much a Johnny mechanic. All that downside is mitigated by that time you drop it into a massive board stall as a 17/17. Johnny loves best-case scenarios and expressing just how much a fan he is of his favorite color.
Devotion and Monstrosity are a mix of Timmy and Spike. They both do really viscerally fun things, but also require you to make important value-based decisions.
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"This mechanic is unplayable in Constructed, based on two cards I have seen from an entire block" is a really, really useless thing to say. And it's probably wrong.
Standard: W/R Aggro
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Exactly. I don't have the time/budget to support both limited and constructed (outside the occasional EDH game) so I stick to limited, since it's the format I honestly get more enjoyment out of.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
I think a good bear with a 4 cost bestow would be fair. Anything more pushed could get crazy.
Bestow is a fairly decent mechanic. You get an aura that turns into a creature once the host is removed.
The problem is that we haven't seen any cards where the casting cost/bestow cost is playable.
Flashback is a great mechanic, but you know as well as I do that there are MANY flashback cards whose casting costs/flashback costs are so prohibitive that they are unplayable.
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sometimes I forget that Wizards of the Coast do indeed reside on the west coast.
so that'd be 9:00 where I'm at. yay, 34 minutes.
URJhoira of the GhituUR(Under con.)
BMaralen of the MornsongB
UBLazav, Dimir MastermindUB
Standard:
UMono U DevotionU
Casual:
GPrimordial Hydra JankinessG
Many thanks to ChibiSwan of The Ugly Swan for the great banner!
They flat out can not do that. Bestow works in such a way that casting the card as an enchantment is almost always superior to casting it as a creature. If you cast it as a creature it can be hit with creature or enchantment removal and when it does it's gone. If you cast it as an aura it can only be hit directly with enchantment removal otherwise to get rid of it for good you need to remove the creature then remove the bestow creature.
Im no expert on standard or modern but auras that are guaranteed not to be 2 for 1s (with the exception of cards like austere command or decimate) are strong enough on their own that they don't need to be incentivized. If you could get the token from Griffin Guide for 4 mana when casting it as an aura got you a bigger creature and were guaranteed the 2/2 flying not just if the enchanted creature died but if the creature got bounced, exiled or removed while the card was on the stack would you ever cast the 2/2 unless in the most dire of straights?
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
The Nymph is ok, I guess. 2/2 intimidate for 4 is nothing to write home about, but it sure helps those creatures that themselves don't have intimidate.
Intimidate, the most cringeworthily ill-conceived keyword ever? Check.
Tokens that get haste but won't have it printed on them because Wizards is too ignorant of the rules of their own game to realize that haste stays relevant after the first turn on the battlefield? Check.
It's like they selected these spoilers specifically to annoy me. Oh well, can't win 'em all...
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
Wait, what? Intimidate is a pretty nice upgrade to the old Fear. Never seen anyone complain about it before.
This on the other hand I agree with.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG