If it wasn't a creature you wouldn't be able to target it to begin with with essence scatter.
But it is always a creature. Only on the battefield does it have a static ability that will check whether or not it is one.
OK, makes sense. But I am confused when you say it is always a creature, whereas the card says that he is not a creature if the devotion is below 5. I am wondering if you can save him from a creature sweeper (e.g/ wrath of god or terminus...) by sacrificing a creature (assuming you are able to do so) in response, lowering the devotion to less than 5. For example, when does Terminus check to see whether a creature is a creature - when it is cast or when it resolves?
[Edit: I guess Wrath of God wouldn't work since Purphorus is indesctructible, and with Terminus you wouldn't need to sac a creature, since you can decide the order of sending away, so if you put Purphorus last it will no longer be a creature and so can't be sent away?]
[Edit: I guess Wrath of God wouldn't work since Purphorus is indesctructible, and with Terminus you wouldn't need to sac a creature, since you can decide the order of sending away, so if you put Purphorus last it will no longer be a creature and so can't be sent away?]
Basically the way it works is that creatures can only exist on the battlefield. Everywhere else it is a creature card so his ability can only influence the battlefield. As for terminus if you were to sacrifice in response and lower your devotion then he would not be taken because Terminus specifies creatures and checks on resolution. All creatures are taken at the same time and your only real choice is how to order them on the bottom.
Yeah, but wouldn't a change in the card-type be a "characteristic-defining" Ability, like the P/T effect on Goyf for example? Those work in all Zones.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness;
Devotion defines the card's subtype from my understanding.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
Also, it specifies he is 'not a creature' unless you have enough devotion, and he's never a creature anywhere other than the battlefield anyway, he's a creature card.
I am 100% fine with Purphoros remaining an enchantment. Turn 2 pyro, turn 3 guttersnipe, turn 4 purphoros, turn 5 shock shock molten birth. 20 damage, and we didn't even touch Purphoros
what if the sorceries are graveyard dumps to get chandra's pheonix in the yard?
Yeah, but wouldn't a change in the card-type be a "characteristic-defining" Ability, like the P/T effect on Goyf for example? Those work in all Zones.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness;
Devotion defines the card's subtype from my understanding.
Also, "creature" is a type, not a subtype.
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604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
Also, it specifies he is 'not a creature' unless you have enough devotion, and he's never a creature anywhere other than the battlefield anyway, he's a creature card.
This is absolutely correct. All of the gods are creature cards when in your library, your hand, or the graveyard. They are creature spells on the stack. The devotion check is NOT a characteristic-defining ability--it is a static ability that functions only on the battlefield.
For another example: Cairn Wanderer. Changeling IS a characteristic-defining ability, so Cairn Wanderer will have its mana cost reduced by Undead Warchief. Its other ability can only function on the battlefield, so it won't have its cost reduced by, say, Warden of Evos Isle if you have a Suntail Hawk in your graveyard.
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
-whispers like diabolic tutor- Hidden strings....you want to break hidden stringssssss
Yeah, I thought about that too actually. I was thinking the other two might have slightly better synergy, but String does abuse Heroic triggers so there's that.
EDIT: Wow, just bought 3 and another Thassa as well. Now I want to buy Elspeth for ultimate Purphoros shenanigans.
it is better against supreme verdict than any other creature since it does not die and the whole argument is flawed..
.
I don't see how this is good against supreme verdict in RDW. He wipes your board, you lose devotion, you basically just wasted the tempo of your 4 drop on a play that did nothing
Sure u dont lose the card itself, but no one seems to understand aggro is not about cards its about tempo and doing as much damage to the face as possible. Fanatic of mogis is a much better card then this, since you get your lava axe immediately.
so next turn you draw some dorky red creature to an empty board against control, so he takes another 2, while your opponent is drawing cards, gaining life, and putting the game away.
Purphoros is very decent against non control decks though. Along with boros reckoner purphoros can really even the score if your opponent dropping fatties to block, but please don't be mistaken that this card will ever does against decks running revelations, supreme verdicts, omenspeakers and azorious charms (if its still a deck post rotation).
Funny, I had the exact same idea last week. Purphoros seems more like a combo card to me; he loses a lot of tempo if they wipe your board, but as we both understand, if you have a large board afterwards, then he GETS. STUFF. DONE.
When played on Magical Christmasland, this is how it goes:
Turn 1: Cloudfin Raptor
Turn 2: Tidebinder Mage, evolve Raptor, swing 1 (19)
Turn 3: Nightveil Specter, evolve Raptor, swing 2 (4 if no blockers for Mage), (17 or, ideally, 15)
Turn 4: Purphoros (if enemy life is 17, swing with fliers)
Turn 5: Master of Waves, get 7 elementals, Purphoros shoots for 16.
Obviously the enemy will have some removal, but even with just two extra sources of Blue devotion, Master of Waves still drops 3 tokens, and Purphoros still shoots for 8. To me, this seems like a viable combo. Even just a few cards can cause huge damage, and even if you don't hit the combo cards, any creatures you play will still get you value.
I don't really play Standard, and anyway I live in China now and I only know where stores that do Drafts are. However, if you make the deck and play tournaments with it, tell me how it goes. I'd be interested in knowing.
I have been testing him in a lot of lists and so far he has NEVER disappointed.
Against contril on turn 5 after a verdict he can turn your hasty Zealot into 5 damage. even without the haste creature you can follow up a verdict with a stormbreath Dragon for 6 (assuming your on the play) on the draw you just get 2 extra damage out of something you wouldn't have had before. it also makes chandra's Phoenix a beast. at end of turn I magma jet you for 2, scry 2 and return my phoenix, next turn play it hit you for 4.
He is by no means going to break standard but he will keep his $30 value. Easy 2-3 of in every heavy red deck.
My problem with Purpohoros is the cost of committing to getting devotion=5. You're probably going to be tapping out for the red god so you can't keep Boros Charm or counter-magic up, and then you'd want to make sure most of your cards contribute to R devotion anyway. One Supreme Verdict and you're basically done. Sure, you still have a Shocking enchantment on the board but I'd much rather have Chandra, Pyromaster that does one damage but lets your creatures get through or digs for more action. And I could be wrong but I don't think there's a place for both Chandra and Purphoros unless we get a serious--and I mean serious--red token-producing bomb that warrants a look at Midrange/Token Red (?). For Big Red I'd rather go the Monstrous route with Ember Swallowerand/ or Stormbreath Dragon and use Chandra.
I'm calling this one a bit of a constructed flop in relation to it's hefty price tag. As a $5 card I'd say it might be worth it for some tier 2 decks but it's not the staple people are thinking it might be. Don't get me wrong, it's a good card, just not $25+ good. It won't be a staple the way Sphinx's Revelation is.
lol you don't lose more tempo with purphoros that you would have lost by dropping another 4 drop.
What you don't seem to understand is that Purphoros does not care about devotion.
Havng your next creature drop deal 2 damage immediately gives you reach and tempo after a verdict not lose it.
Having Purphoros survive the verdict and then drop and otherwise useless midrange 1 drop but also shock the opponent who already took damage is GREAT. It add values to red aggro wheenies late.
I predict we will see lots of decks in either mono red that all play purphoros and aggro decks in U/R with purphoros, yp and master of the waves, omen speaker, tidebinder mage
ok so your saying as the RDW player I shouldn't be dumping my hand early vs control and save all my cards, so he can save essence scatter for purphoros, play more lands, draw cards and gain life?
uh? you don't get it, you don't have to save anything in hand or play any different than before to play and use purphoros.
If you think Mogis is better that is just laughable, Purphoros will deal far more damage than Mogis over a game.
its not the amount dealt over the duration of the game. its the amount dealt in the first 5 turns that matters more for RDW. Control decks have good lifegain cards still after rotation.
If control deck stabilizes purphoros really doesn't do much. Fanatic of mogis burns their face, hopefully putting the control player into burn spell range so if he taps out to verdict or elspeth you can just searing spear him, get your chandras pheonix back and GG.
For 4 drops in RDW fanatic of mogis is the best one atm, doesn't replace hellrider but still does a decent amount of damage pre creature that you have.
Chandra the pyromaster would be the other 4 drop i would consider, but mogis is still better.
its not the amount dealt over the duration of the game. its the amount dealt in the first 5 turns that matters more for RDW. Control decks have good lifegain cards still after rotation.
If control deck stabilizes purphoros really doesn't do much. Fanatic of mogis burns their face, hopefully putting the control player into burn spell range so if he taps out to verdict or elspeth you can just searing spear him, get your chandras pheonix back and GG.
For 4 drops in RDW fanatic of mogis is the best one atm, doesn't replace hellrider but still does a decent amount of damage pre creature that you have.
Chandra the pyromaster would be the other 4 drop i would consider, but mogis is still better.
You've probably got it right. I don't really think that Puphoros is meant for RDW; I've stated before that he's got combo potential, and I also think that he's better in a Mid-Range build with 30+ creatures.
Purphoros (at least as I see it) wants to shoot for a lot of damage with his static ability, and if he swings in, then gravy. RDW doesn't want that, cause RDW wants to win quick, and Purphoros wants to go for slow, steady burn as you drop more and more threats. I'd probably run Purphoros in Red/Blue Tempo-Combo, or in Red/Green Zoo. Purphoros probably isn't too good in RDW. That said, if you've got his Hammer out in RDW, then he's a lot better, cause he comes down and swings for 6 on turn 4. On the other hand, I don't know how viable the Hammer is except as a late drop if you get land-flooded, as you really want to just drop creatures every turn in RDW and finish with burn.
Thus, you're probably right about the Fanatic of Mogis. He's a good quick damage pusher, who will never do as much damage overall as Purphoros, but will almost always do more damage in one burst.
So question. Does mindsparker fit into any decks with this guy? Or is that more a sideboard card? Or a noncard?
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
You've probably got it right. I don't really think that Puphoros is meant for RDW; I've stated before that he's got combo potential, and I also think that he's better in a Mid-Range build with 30+ creatures.
Purphoros (at least as I see it) wants to shoot for a lot of damage with his static ability, and if he swings in, then gravy. RDW doesn't want that, cause RDW wants to win quick, and Purphoros wants to go for slow, steady burn as you drop more and more threats. I'd probably run Purphoros in Red/Blue Tempo-Combo, or in Red/Green Zoo. Purphoros probably isn't too good in RDW. That said, if you've got his Hammer out in RDW, then he's a lot better, cause he comes down and swings for 6 on turn 4. On the other hand, I don't know how viable the Hammer is except as a late drop if you get land-flooded, as you really want to just drop creatures every turn in RDW and finish with burn.
Thus, you're probably right about the Fanatic of Mogis. He's a good quick damage pusher, who will never do as much damage overall as Purphoros, but will almost always do more damage in one burst.
purphoros has potential with cards like young pyromancer and akroan crusader looks sweet too. molten birth maybe
realistically mogis will never do more than 3-4 dmg when played and then your board gets cleaned up by verdict or anger of the gods, purphoros survives and adds 2 dmg to every creature you continue to play which gives you a lot of reach.
also purphoros if nothing happens and you already got 3 2/2 bears on board , purphoros can double your power on the board for 4 mana.
I am not sure you playtested purphoros, he is insane.
Mogis is only better if that initial damage would kill the opponent and in every case that mogis does considerable damage you would not only get all static and activated benefits from purphoros, you also get a 6/5 attacker next turn.
we are taking about purphoros in RDW. Hes bad in RDW.
Hes ok in big red
So question. Does mindsparker fit into any decks with this guy? Or is that more a sideboard card? Or a noncard?
I would say more than likely a sideboard card. If non-UW decks start to make an impact, an argument could be made as to where to place him (if at all). I'm just pretty sure he's going to be facing other card in the 3 slot (Reckoner, etc.). If he had haste from the get go, like he should have, then it would probably fit right into the most aggressive red builds we could possibly foresee.
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But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
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"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
I would say more than likely a sideboard card. If non-UW decks start to make an impact, an argument could be made as to where to place him (if at all). I'm just pretty sure he's going to be facing other card in the 3 slot (Reckoner, etc.). If he had haste from the get go, like he should have, then it would probably fit right into the most aggressive red builds we could possibly foresee.
mindsparker is a solid sb card, reckoner is generally better but mindsparker can be stronger after sideboard. Chandra's pheonix is most likely an autoinclude in rdw, anger of the gods and ooze are good hate cards against it though.
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OK, makes sense. But I am confused when you say it is always a creature, whereas the card says that he is not a creature if the devotion is below 5. I am wondering if you can save him from a creature sweeper (e.g/ wrath of god or terminus...) by sacrificing a creature (assuming you are able to do so) in response, lowering the devotion to less than 5. For example, when does Terminus check to see whether a creature is a creature - when it is cast or when it resolves?
[Edit: I guess Wrath of God wouldn't work since Purphorus is indesctructible, and with Terminus you wouldn't need to sac a creature, since you can decide the order of sending away, so if you put Purphorus last it will no longer be a creature and so can't be sent away?]
No, everything is put away at the same time.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
Also, it specifies he is 'not a creature' unless you have enough devotion, and he's never a creature anywhere other than the battlefield anyway, he's a creature card.
what if the sorceries are graveyard dumps to get chandra's pheonix in the yard?
yeah seems like a deck that should work.
Also, "creature" is a type, not a subtype.
This is absolutely correct. All of the gods are creature cards when in your library, your hand, or the graveyard. They are creature spells on the stack. The devotion check is NOT a characteristic-defining ability--it is a static ability that functions only on the battlefield.
For another example: Cairn Wanderer. Changeling IS a characteristic-defining ability, so Cairn Wanderer will have its mana cost reduced by Undead Warchief. Its other ability can only function on the battlefield, so it won't have its cost reduced by, say, Warden of Evos Isle if you have a Suntail Hawk in your graveyard.
Standard: W/R Aggro
I'm thinking a UR deck with Master of Waves, Young Pyromancer, Goblin Electromancer and maybe even Thassa, God of the Sea for card filtering and unblockable, and toss Hands of Binding or Voidwalk on something for repeatable casting and triggering.
Also, of course, toss in some Izzet Charm, Lightning Strike and Magma Jet to taste.
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-whispers like diabolic tutor- Hidden strings....you want to break hidden stringssssss
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Yeah, I thought about that too actually. I was thinking the other two might have slightly better synergy, but String does abuse Heroic triggers so there's that.
EDIT: Wow, just bought 3 and another Thassa as well. Now I want to buy Elspeth for ultimate Purphoros shenanigans.
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He seems legit vs midrange and green white because u just play it and keep slamming them for 6 with it.
I don't see how this is good against supreme verdict in RDW. He wipes your board, you lose devotion, you basically just wasted the tempo of your 4 drop on a play that did nothing
Sure u dont lose the card itself, but no one seems to understand aggro is not about cards its about tempo and doing as much damage to the face as possible. Fanatic of mogis is a much better card then this, since you get your lava axe immediately.
so next turn you draw some dorky red creature to an empty board against control, so he takes another 2, while your opponent is drawing cards, gaining life, and putting the game away.
Purphoros is very decent against non control decks though. Along with boros reckoner purphoros can really even the score if your opponent dropping fatties to block, but please don't be mistaken that this card will ever does against decks running revelations, supreme verdicts, omenspeakers and azorious charms (if its still a deck post rotation).
Funny, I had the exact same idea last week. Purphoros seems more like a combo card to me; he loses a lot of tempo if they wipe your board, but as we both understand, if you have a large board afterwards, then he GETS. STUFF. DONE.
When played on Magical Christmasland, this is how it goes:
Turn 1: Cloudfin Raptor
Turn 2: Tidebinder Mage, evolve Raptor, swing 1 (19)
Turn 3: Nightveil Specter, evolve Raptor, swing 2 (4 if no blockers for Mage), (17 or, ideally, 15)
Turn 4: Purphoros (if enemy life is 17, swing with fliers)
Turn 5: Master of Waves, get 7 elementals, Purphoros shoots for 16.
Obviously the enemy will have some removal, but even with just two extra sources of Blue devotion, Master of Waves still drops 3 tokens, and Purphoros still shoots for 8. To me, this seems like a viable combo. Even just a few cards can cause huge damage, and even if you don't hit the combo cards, any creatures you play will still get you value.
I don't really play Standard, and anyway I live in China now and I only know where stores that do Drafts are. However, if you make the deck and play tournaments with it, tell me how it goes. I'd be interested in knowing.
Against contril on turn 5 after a verdict he can turn your hasty Zealot into 5 damage. even without the haste creature you can follow up a verdict with a stormbreath Dragon for 6 (assuming your on the play) on the draw you just get 2 extra damage out of something you wouldn't have had before. it also makes chandra's Phoenix a beast. at end of turn I magma jet you for 2, scry 2 and return my phoenix, next turn play it hit you for 4.
He is by no means going to break standard but he will keep his $30 value. Easy 2-3 of in every heavy red deck.
I'm calling this one a bit of a constructed flop in relation to it's hefty price tag. As a $5 card I'd say it might be worth it for some tier 2 decks but it's not the staple people are thinking it might be. Don't get me wrong, it's a good card, just not $25+ good. It won't be a staple the way Sphinx's Revelation is.
ok so your saying as the RDW player I shouldn't be dumping my hand early vs control and save all my cards, so he can save essence scatter for purphoros, play more lands, draw cards and gain life?
Fanatic of Mogis is better
3 Master of Waves
2 Wavecrash Triton
4 Omenspeaker
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Enchantments 5
4 Claustrophobia
1 Agoraphobia
3 Lost in a Labyrinth
4 Voyage's End
4 Magma Jet
2 Steam Augury
3 Rapid Hybridization
Lands 23
4 Steam Vents
12 Island
5 Mountain
2 Izzet Guildgate
1 Sage's Row Denizen
1 Murmuring Phantasm
2 Rapid Hybridization
1 Clinging Anemones
1 Runner's Bane
2 Anger of the Gods
You Scry for Master of Waves & Purphoros, God of the Forge.
Drop Claustrophobia & Agoraphobia as Removal
Wavecrash Triton & Agoraphobia = a look on lategame
its not the amount dealt over the duration of the game. its the amount dealt in the first 5 turns that matters more for RDW. Control decks have good lifegain cards still after rotation.
If control deck stabilizes purphoros really doesn't do much. Fanatic of mogis burns their face, hopefully putting the control player into burn spell range so if he taps out to verdict or elspeth you can just searing spear him, get your chandras pheonix back and GG.
For 4 drops in RDW fanatic of mogis is the best one atm, doesn't replace hellrider but still does a decent amount of damage pre creature that you have.
Chandra the pyromaster would be the other 4 drop i would consider, but mogis is still better.
You've probably got it right. I don't really think that Puphoros is meant for RDW; I've stated before that he's got combo potential, and I also think that he's better in a Mid-Range build with 30+ creatures.
Purphoros (at least as I see it) wants to shoot for a lot of damage with his static ability, and if he swings in, then gravy. RDW doesn't want that, cause RDW wants to win quick, and Purphoros wants to go for slow, steady burn as you drop more and more threats. I'd probably run Purphoros in Red/Blue Tempo-Combo, or in Red/Green Zoo. Purphoros probably isn't too good in RDW. That said, if you've got his Hammer out in RDW, then he's a lot better, cause he comes down and swings for 6 on turn 4. On the other hand, I don't know how viable the Hammer is except as a late drop if you get land-flooded, as you really want to just drop creatures every turn in RDW and finish with burn.
Thus, you're probably right about the Fanatic of Mogis. He's a good quick damage pusher, who will never do as much damage overall as Purphoros, but will almost always do more damage in one burst.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
purphoros has potential with cards like young pyromancer and akroan crusader looks sweet too. molten birth maybe
we are taking about purphoros in RDW. Hes bad in RDW.
Hes ok in big red
I would say more than likely a sideboard card. If non-UW decks start to make an impact, an argument could be made as to where to place him (if at all). I'm just pretty sure he's going to be facing other card in the 3 slot (Reckoner, etc.). If he had haste from the get go, like he should have, then it would probably fit right into the most aggressive red builds we could possibly foresee.
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
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On Vault of the Archangel
mindsparker is a solid sb card, reckoner is generally better but mindsparker can be stronger after sideboard. Chandra's pheonix is most likely an autoinclude in rdw, anger of the gods and ooze are good hate cards against it though.