Dryad Militant hasn't seen much play but possibly because it's ability is also considered a drawback. This guy is better on the board but I'm not sure how relevant his ability is since he dies to every relevant burn spell in modern and path to exile. Probably will see standard play though.
Man, I really liked early Theros previews, but this one irks me.
First, I never like obvious hate cards for the previous block.
Second, I don't like when they needlessly invalidate previous cards (Elite Vanguard). Dryad Militant was equally guilty of this (including being another hate card), but at least it was a different creature type and color.
Cards with "pushed" power levels are just annoying because they require no real evaluation. IF there's a white aggro deck, this goes in as a 4x. Straightforward. (Not that white aggro has been a thing lately.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On MTGO as Protoman.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Man, I really liked early Theros previews, but this one irks me.
First, I never like obvious hate cards for the previous block.
Second, I don't like when they needlessly invalidate previous cards (Elite Vanguard). Dryad Militant was equally guilty of this (including being another hate card), but at least it was a different creature type and color.
Cards with "pushed" power levels are just annoying because they require no real evaluation. IF there's a white aggro deck, this goes in as a 4x. Straightforward. (Not that white aggro has been a thing lately.)
Elite Vanguard and his buddy Lions were invalid long before they made strictly-better versions.
Savannah Lion variants haven't been relevant in forever. I like how people act like it's still 1999 and Savannah Lions is supposed to be a benchmark for anything.
This guy is significantly weaker than Champion of the Parish as an aggro one-drop. If anything, he's a defensive creature that blocks Rakdos Cacklers and Burning-Tree Emissaries.
This seems like a good card to me, but top 10 one-drops all time is ridiculous. 2/1 for one mana is an efficient body, but on its own a 2/1 for W is neither new nor necessarily playable. The ability is going to be relevant in Standard and Modern, but how relevant? Sure, you can name a bunch of cards that don't affect it, but all that shows is that you can identify multicolored cards. The Standard decks running Abrupt Decays will also run Doom Blades. The Modern decks running Lightning Helixes will also run Lightning Bolts. You're not going to run into decks that don't have answers to this card. You may play games where they don't draw any of them and get beaten to death by weenies as a result. You may also play games where you win a race because you got some random lifegain off your Savannah Lions for free. But it's also a straight-up Elite Vanguard against some decks. The person who said it was in the same tier as Gravecrawler (i.e. good but not bananas- and not the same power level as Delver, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Welder, Deathrite Shaman, Noble Hierarch, etc.) probably has it right.
So this is strictly better than Elite Vanguard. Fleecemane Lion is strictly better than Watchwolf. The new duals are strictly better than the Guildgates. Wonder what else will be revealed that follows this pattern?
Guildgate is strictly worse than the life gain cycle in Ravnica. Lightning Strike is strictly worse than Lightning Bolt and Incinerate. Elite Vanguard was a downgrade rare in the first place with better creature type.
WTF
5 pages and not one mention of powercreep? In limited, he's a nobrainer first pick In standard, he's going in hexproof and every aggro deck. In modern, he's going in hatebears. In legacy, he's going in WW and zoo. In commander, he's replacing every elite vanguard.
Jesus this guy is a one drop with two power, supports two very relevant archetypes, protection from a variety of colors, good hate, and no drawback. How much powercreep is too much?!!?
I hardly think anyone would first-pick an Elite Vanguard over something that actually wins the game.
White Weenie and Zoo are never played in Legacy.
Why would anyone play Elite Vanguard in EDH?
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Man, I really liked early Theros previews, but this one irks me.
First, I never like obvious hate cards for the previous block.
Second, I don't like when they needlessly invalidate previous cards (Elite Vanguard). Dryad Militant was equally guilty of this (including being another hate card), but at least it was a different creature type and color.
Cards with "pushed" power levels are just annoying because they require no real evaluation. IF there's a white aggro deck, this goes in as a 4x. Straightforward. (Not that white aggro has been a thing lately.)
pushed power cards do enable archetypes and make deck decisions more interesting though. You always need some of them basically.
This potentially enables a human themed deck again and Wr or Wg aggro. Basically pushed cards present interesting decisions on other cards which are soso but might just get playable because they have enough powercards around them to form a deck.
That said this is quite a nice card. 2/1 is not really great anymore and typically needs some other incentives to get played like easy casting cost, filling out the curve etc.
This obviously has enough upsides to be solid but hard to tell if it will be great. It's definately not top 10 or even top 30 best 1-drops ever and has pretty much no chance of legacy play but for modern and standard it should be a staple.
But what didn't exist before Dryad Militant and this card were cards that were better at doing what Elite Vanguard did--that is, being a 2-power Soldier with no conditions or drawbacks or extra mana needed.
Judging by his inclusion in recent MTGO Cubes, Elite Vanguard was still filling a niche for someone, somewhere.
But no longer. That's what I mean by "invalidated." Vanguard was relevant in its tiny niche, but now it's not anymore, officially.
This potentially enables a human themed deck again and Wr or Wg aggro.
I agree it might enable aggro, but so far there's no evidence that a human-themed deck would be worth building. The relevant humans-matter cards are rotating out (Champion of the Parish, Falkenrath Aristocrat) and the new ones don't seem Constructed-worthy (Cavalry Pegasus, Titan of Eternal Fire).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On MTGO as Protoman.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
But what didn't exist before Dryad Militant and this card were cards that were better at doing what Elite Vanguard did--that is, being a 2-power Soldier with no conditions or drawbacks or extra mana needed.
Judging by his inclusion in recent MTGO Cubes, Elite Vanguard was still filling a niche for someone, somewhere.
But no longer. That's what I mean by "invalidated." Vanguard was relevant in its tiny niche, but now it's not anymore, officially.
Invalid as in no longer a threat/playable in a tournament setting. You don't need a strict upgrade for that to happentoyou.
He will still be played in cubes that support white aggro decks. 1-drops in cube don't usually just get replaced when an upgrade comes along, they are played in addition to the new card. Cube always wants more one-drops.
Not only that, but even if he IS replaced in 360-450 cubes (the "small" ones), he will STILL be played in large cubes like 720. Like I said, cube always wants more one-drops. So, he still has that niche you're so fond of.
But what didn't exist before Dryad Militant and this card were cards that were better at doing what Elite Vanguard did--that is, being a 2-power Soldier with no conditions or drawbacks or extra mana needed.
Judging by his inclusion in recent MTGO Cubes, Elite Vanguard was still filling a niche for someone, somewhere.
But no longer. That's what I mean by "invalidated." Vanguard was relevant in its tiny niche, but now it's not anymore, officially.
OK... and? Was anyone upset that Thassa nearly completely invalidates Think Tank?
Sure, Thassa has scry and Think Tank puts a card in the GY, but then again, Elite Vanguard can wear an Armadillo Cloak, and this guy cannot. So...
Invalid as in no longer a threat/playable in a tournament setting. You don't need a strict upgrade for that to happentoyou.
I think we might just be battling semantics here. When I talked about "invalid" the word I should have used was "obsolete," whereas I think your version is more like "irrelevant." And we're on the same side; I mentioned in both my posts that the type of white aggro that would have wanted Savannah Lion/Elite Vanguard hasn't been a thing in a long time.
OK... and? Was anyone upset that Thassa nearly completely invalidates Think Tank?
Well, two things...
1) I guess I feel like his presence in Cube meant Elite Vanguard still had some tiny bit of relevancy, whereas I don't recall Think Tank ever being relevant.
2) Thassa is at least an exciting new card that's pushing design forward. To me, Soldier of the Pantheon is just another heavy-handed after-the-fact hate card designed to artificially deflate the power level of the old block in Standard. Just like Ash Zealot and Dryad Militant before it, they staple the random hate to a creature with good stats to ensure that it sees play.
And from a flavor standpoint, well, Thassa and the other gods are at the heart of the block. But this guy? He doesn't fit in the same way. There's not a ton of multicolor in the set, and it's not mechanically linked in any way, so why would the pantheon grant such a narrow protection to their soldier? "You are protected from one Cerberus and a few specific legends." Shouldn't he have "protection from monstrous" or something?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On MTGO as Protoman.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Instant spot in my highlander White Weenie legacy deck, of course
Any 2/1 for 1 mana without drawbacks is going to see play SOMEWHERE. This guy's got good creature types and a couple abilities that will sometimes kick some ass. I'm in!
I think we might just be battling semantics here. When I talked about "invalid" the word I should have used was "obsolete," whereas I think your version is more like "irrelevant." And we're on the same side; I mentioned in both my posts that the type of white aggro that would have wanted Savannah Lion/Elite Vanguard hasn't been a thing in a long time.
I agree it might enable aggro, but so far there's no evidence that a human-themed deck would be worth building. The relevant humans-matter cards are rotating out (Champion of the Parish, Falkenrath Aristocrat) and the new ones don't seem Constructed-worthy (Cavalry Pegasus, Titan of Eternal Fire).
Did you forget about Xathrid Necromancer? I definitely see a B/W human deck once Theros comes out featuring our little necromancer or it could even be with some red and Tymaret!
not sure if people are god awful at card evaluation......... or if people expect creatures to just win you the game alone and not have anything to do with utility at all........
The card is good. It would have been disgusting tagging along with champion of the parish, thalia and slayer's stronghold, so it remains to be seen what the metagame will bring.
Guildgate is strictly worse than the life gain cycle in Ravnica. Lightning Strike is strictly worse than Lightning Bolt and Incinerate. Elite Vanguard was a downgrade rare in the first place with better creature type.
Wasteland is irrelevant since Strip Mine exists.
Anyone who thinks Savanna Lions isn't good or isn't worth anything anymore doesn't play cube. We love these cards! They're the glue that hold aggro together.
Man, I really liked early Theros previews, but this one irks me.
First, I never like obvious hate cards for the previous block.
Second, I don't like when they needlessly invalidate previous cards (Elite Vanguard). Dryad Militant was equally guilty of this (including being another hate card), but at least it was a different creature type and color.
Cards with "pushed" power levels are just annoying because they require no real evaluation. IF there's a white aggro deck, this goes in as a 4x. Straightforward. (Not that white aggro has been a thing lately.)
It's better for the game in general to have stronger creatures then spells, anyone who played during combo winter can attest to that. Psychatog decks was quite disgusting in its day also. If you compare this and elite vanguard, its not a huge difference. If you compare cancel to counterspell it's disgusting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
First, I never like obvious hate cards for the previous block.
Second, I don't like when they needlessly invalidate previous cards (Elite Vanguard). Dryad Militant was equally guilty of this (including being another hate card), but at least it was a different creature type and color.
Cards with "pushed" power levels are just annoying because they require no real evaluation. IF there's a white aggro deck, this goes in as a 4x. Straightforward. (Not that white aggro has been a thing lately.)
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Elite Vanguard and his buddy Lions were invalid long before they made strictly-better versions.
This guy is significantly weaker than Champion of the Parish as an aggro one-drop. If anything, he's a defensive creature that blocks Rakdos Cacklers and Burning-Tree Emissaries.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Guildgate is strictly worse than the life gain cycle in Ravnica. Lightning Strike is strictly worse than Lightning Bolt and Incinerate. Elite Vanguard was a downgrade rare in the first place with better creature type.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
I hardly think anyone would first-pick an Elite Vanguard over something that actually wins the game.
White Weenie and Zoo are never played in Legacy.
Why would anyone play Elite Vanguard in EDH?
pushed power cards do enable archetypes and make deck decisions more interesting though. You always need some of them basically.
This potentially enables a human themed deck again and Wr or Wg aggro. Basically pushed cards present interesting decisions on other cards which are soso but might just get playable because they have enough powercards around them to form a deck.
That said this is quite a nice card. 2/1 is not really great anymore and typically needs some other incentives to get played like easy casting cost, filling out the curve etc.
This obviously has enough upsides to be solid but hard to tell if it will be great. It's definately not top 10 or even top 30 best 1-drops ever and has pretty much no chance of legacy play but for modern and standard it should be a staple.
Well, not sure what you mean by "invalid."
First, everyone knows white weenie hasn't been a competitive archetype in, like, forever. (Sorry, Wescoe.)
Second, I know there are plenty of other better white one-drops: Mother of Runes, Isamaru, Figure of Destiny, Student of Warfare, Steppe Lynx. I'm not making THAT argument.
But what didn't exist before Dryad Militant and this card were cards that were better at doing what Elite Vanguard did--that is, being a 2-power Soldier with no conditions or drawbacks or extra mana needed.
Judging by his inclusion in recent MTGO Cubes, Elite Vanguard was still filling a niche for someone, somewhere.
But no longer. That's what I mean by "invalidated." Vanguard was relevant in its tiny niche, but now it's not anymore, officially.
I agree it might enable aggro, but so far there's no evidence that a human-themed deck would be worth building. The relevant humans-matter cards are rotating out (Champion of the Parish, Falkenrath Aristocrat) and the new ones don't seem Constructed-worthy (Cavalry Pegasus, Titan of Eternal Fire).
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Is it just me, or have a lot of cards been made obsolete by Theros (in that it has a bunch of cards that are strictly better than previous cards)?
A comic about the world's most addictive game, Magic: The Gathering.
Invalid as in no longer a threat/playable in a tournament setting. You don't need a strict upgrade for that to happen to you.
He will still be played in cubes that support white aggro decks. 1-drops in cube don't usually just get replaced when an upgrade comes along, they are played in addition to the new card. Cube always wants more one-drops.
Not only that, but even if he IS replaced in 360-450 cubes (the "small" ones), he will STILL be played in large cubes like 720. Like I said, cube always wants more one-drops. So, he still has that niche you're so fond of.
OK... and? Was anyone upset that Thassa nearly completely invalidates Think Tank?
Sure, Thassa has scry and Think Tank puts a card in the GY, but then again, Elite Vanguard can wear an Armadillo Cloak, and this guy cannot. So...
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
I think we might just be battling semantics here. When I talked about "invalid" the word I should have used was "obsolete," whereas I think your version is more like "irrelevant." And we're on the same side; I mentioned in both my posts that the type of white aggro that would have wanted Savannah Lion/Elite Vanguard hasn't been a thing in a long time.
Well, two things...
1) I guess I feel like his presence in Cube meant Elite Vanguard still had some tiny bit of relevancy, whereas I don't recall Think Tank ever being relevant.
2) Thassa is at least an exciting new card that's pushing design forward. To me, Soldier of the Pantheon is just another heavy-handed after-the-fact hate card designed to artificially deflate the power level of the old block in Standard. Just like Ash Zealot and Dryad Militant before it, they staple the random hate to a creature with good stats to ensure that it sees play.
And from a flavor standpoint, well, Thassa and the other gods are at the heart of the block. But this guy? He doesn't fit in the same way. There's not a ton of multicolor in the set, and it's not mechanically linked in any way, so why would the pantheon grant such a narrow protection to their soldier? "You are protected from one Cerberus and a few specific legends." Shouldn't he have "protection from monstrous" or something?
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
Any 2/1 for 1 mana without drawbacks is going to see play SOMEWHERE. This guy's got good creature types and a couple abilities that will sometimes kick some ass. I'm in!
.
In that case, I agree with you completely.
Did you forget about Xathrid Necromancer? I definitely see a B/W human deck once Theros comes out featuring our little necromancer or it could even be with some red and Tymaret!
not sure if people are god awful at card evaluation......... or if people expect creatures to just win you the game alone and not have anything to do with utility at all........
Wasteland is irrelevant since Strip Mine exists.
Anyone who thinks Savanna Lions isn't good or isn't worth anything anymore doesn't play cube. We love these cards! They're the glue that hold aggro together.
It's better for the game in general to have stronger creatures then spells, anyone who played during combo winter can attest to that. Psychatog decks was quite disgusting in its day also. If you compare this and elite vanguard, its not a huge difference. If you compare cancel to counterspell it's disgusting.