Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Have to agree with you on this one, it just seems like they tried to make Goryo's Vengence as an artifact. In terms of power I think it goes Bow>Spear>Hammer>Bident>Whip. The whip doesn't even interact with Erebos. The other gods can form a combo with their weapon, erebos cannot other then the fact he gives lifelink to him self. Erebos's thing was to drag souls back to the underworld not let them out again. Pretty sure his weapon should have been :2mana::symb::symb:: Target creature gets -X/-X where X is the number of cards in all graveyards.
1. He does combo with his weapon. Lifelink to your other guys to fuel his draw ability.
2. It is more like Bow=Whip>Hammer>Spear>Bident
3. Erebos' thing is NOT to drag souls back to the underworld and hold them there. He's the god of the Dead, and he can raise them if he so chooses. Did you not even read the planeswalker's Guide article that talks about him?
Have to agree with you on this one, it just seems like they tried to make Goryo's Vengence as an artifact. In terms of power I think it goes Bow>Spear>Hammer>Bident>Whip. The whip doesn't even interact with Erebos. The other gods can form a combo with their weapon, erebos cannot other then the fact he gives lifelink to him self. Erebos's thing was to drag souls back to the underworld not let them out again. Pretty sure his weapon should have been :2mana::symb::symb:: Target creature gets -X/-X where X is the number of cards in all graveyards.
I think, as usual, it largely depends on format when evaluating which is best.
I'm not saying any of them are bad. Just think the static Coastal Piracy and full lure is probably the hardest to take advantage of. I think the whip the hammer and of course the Bow are useful no matter the board state. the other two are a little more dependent.
I think, as usual, it largely depends on format when evaluating which is best.
Well, looking at what we'll have so far:
RDW will likely be a thing still. Not as insane as with Hellrider/Thundermaw/Vexing Devil, but it should stick around. Although Fervor doesn't see much standard play, Fervor+a continuous supply of Dudes could. Also really helps utilize those land clumps that can kill an aggro deck. I think it'll see some amount of play in Standard, but how much I don't know.
The Spear actually could get some play in a *really* slow w/x control deck. I doubt it, though, as it is intensive on the mana, and it's Vigilance isn't going to be much of a boon early on in creature-light decks. I'd give this one a pass.
The Whip can very well see play. There are some juicy targets with it, and anything with enter or leave the battlefield effects will find it as a welcome addition. Junk Reanimator might still be a thing, with the whip, Rescue, and Obzedat's aid providing the reanimation (With *maybe* Gift of Immortality being used). Ash Rider, Abhorrent Overlord, Lord of the Void, Angel of Serenity, etc providing some incredible cards to bring from the yard. Grisly Salvage and Commune with the Gods may see play. The deck is going to lose some of it's Midrange fluidity, however, and may be strictly graveyard based or nearly so.
The Bow is interesting, and makes blocking a nightmare. The added abilities give it a wide range of utility in both midrange and more aggro-centric decks. I'm uncertain if it will find a home, but I wouldn't be surprised.
The Bident is just kinda flat. It'd be great if Blue had good aggro potential, but it doesn't. As it stands there are better options available for the most part.
So... Fanatic of Mogis is a Minotaur Shaman. The Theros trailer video talks about hordes of Minotaurs running rampant and an evil hiding in plain sight. Hmmm... Makes me wonder.. What/who is Mogis and when is he/she going to make a debut???
I think I finally figured it out with Mogis. This set is gonna be single-colored Gods, and the next two sets will be multicolored Gods; aligned for a set and enemy for a different set to comprise all the Gods of the Theros block. That was predictable!
RDW will likely be a thing still. Not as insane as with Hellrider/Thundermaw/Vexing Devil, but it should stick around. Although Fervor doesn't see much standard play, Fervor+a continuous supply of Dudes could. Also really helps utilize those land clumps that can kill an aggro deck. I think it'll see some amount of play in Standard, but how much I don't know.
The Spear actually could get some play in a *really* slow w/x control deck. I doubt it, though, as it is intensive on the mana, and it's Vigilance isn't going to be much of a boon early on in creature-light decks. I'd give this one a pass.
The Whip can very well see play. There are some juicy targets with it, and anything with enter or leave the battlefield effects will find it as a welcome addition. Junk Reanimator might still be a thing, with the whip, Rescue, and Obzedat's aid providing the reanimation (With *maybe* Gift of Immortality being used). Ash Rider, Abhorrent Overlord, Lord of the Void, Angel of Serenity, etc providing some incredible cards to bring from the yard. Grisly Salvage and Commune with the Gods may see play. The deck is going to lose some of it's Midrange fluidity, however, and may be strictly graveyard based or nearly so.
The Bow is interesting, and makes blocking a nightmare. The added abilities give it a wide range of utility in both midrange and more aggro-centric decks. I'm uncertain if it will find a home, but I wouldn't be surprised.
The Bident is just kinda flat. It'd be great if Blue had good aggro potential, but it doesn't. As it stands there are better options available for the most part.
Since the weapons won't be very relevant in anything other than Standard, I'll rate them accordingly. This is, of course, my opinion.
1. Whip: Lifelink matters, and Wizards is pushing monoblack. Either of these two abilities on an enchantment/artifact would have been solid. Both effects on one permanent is amazing. This is the kind of card that you can throw into any deck with creatures, or the kind of card you build around. It plays many different roles.
2. Spear: An improved Glorious Anthem. In a format where creatures are king, and mirror matches are rampant, +1/+1 is a world of difference. Any aggressive white deck will consider this for 1-2 slots in the deck. The activated ability is just gravy, and it can act as a serious deterrent for control decks swinging with finishers. If anything will keep this card down, it's the lack of efficient token makers.
3. Hammer: Fervor is alright, but it's never been anything special. The second ability of this card is where it shines. It gives RDW a finisher. Pumping out 3/3 Haste creatures every turn, especially after a field wipe, can be devastating. I like this card alot, but it will probably only be a sideboard card.
4. Bow: I honestly don't know how to evaluate this card. It's a Swiss Army knife, but with blunted tools. It doesn't do anything amazing, but it does a little bit of everything. Like the Spear, it could be the difference between winning or losing the mirror match. The deathtouch would be great in certain decks, but green isn't usually that kind of deck.
5. Bident: While I enjoy Bident, I just don't see it being relevant. This could be good in a blue based tempo deck, but I don't see anything like that being competitive with the cards we have so far. Also, this card is in direct competition with Jace, AoT. Aggro decks will want something more aggressive, and control decks will want something more controlling. This falls in the weird middle ground.
Since the weapons won't be very relevant in anything other than Standard, I'll rate them accordingly. This is, of course, my opinion.
1. Whip: Lifelink matters, and Wizards is pushing monoblack. Either of these two abilities on an enchantment/artifact would have been solid. Both effects on one permanent is amazing. This is the kind of card that you can throw into any deck with creatures, or the kind of card you build around. It plays many different roles.
2. Spear: An improved Glorious Anthem. In a format where creatures are king, and mirror matches are rampant, +1/+1 is a world of difference. Any aggressive white deck will consider this for 1-2 slots in the deck. The activated ability is just gravy, and it can act as a serious deterrent for control decks swinging with finishers. If anything will keep this card down, it's the lack of efficient token makers.
3. Hammer: Fervor is alright, but it's never been anything special. The second ability of this card is where it shines. It gives RDW a finisher. Pumping out 3/3 Haste creatures every turn, especially after a field wipe, can be devastating. I like this card alot, but it will probably only be a sideboard card.
4. Bow: I honestly don't know how to evaluate this card. It's a Swiss Army knife, but with blunted tools. It doesn't do anything amazing, but it does a little bit of everything. Like the Spear, it could be the difference between winning or losing the mirror match. The deathtouch would be great in certain decks, but green isn't usually that kind of deck.
5. Bident: While I enjoy Bident, I just don't see it being relevant. This could be good in a blue based tempo deck, but I don't see anything like that being competitive with the cards we have so far. Also, this card is in direct competition with Jace, AoT. Aggro decks will want something more aggressive, and control decks will want something more controlling. This falls in the weird middle ground.
I confused the spear with Heliod himself. As such, it might see some standard play if white weenie becomes a thing. I think the the Hammer and Whip will certainly see play (Although Scooze hurts the whip a good deal), and the Spear might if there is a deck for it that shows up. The bow I'm uncertain about, but could get there, and the Trident will be for limited purposes only.
Favored Hoplite is going to be an absolute nightmare to deal with in limited, given what we know about the relative weakness of removal and WotC's attempt to build a block around playable auras.
When is the last time you saw a 1/2 gum up the ground game like this might do? Later, it swings.
Bident is the weakest of the 5 by a pretty decent margin.
Maybe. I do agree that the Bident is a bit narrower in its abilities, but I enjoy the thought of Master of Waves, Tidebinder, Prognostic Sphinx, and of course Thassa being in standard together. They play nice. And that's before you go to a second color.
I think I finally figured it out with Mogis. This set is gonna be single-colored Gods, and the next two sets will be multicolored Gods; aligned for a set and enemy for a different set to comprise all the Gods of the Theros block. That was predictable!
Especially since... you know... they kinda explicitly told us that in the Planeswalker's Guide?
The article, which is from WotC, where the Whip is spoiled even mentions that it combos nicely with creatures like Obzedat.
You've obviously never played against Golgari Control. You know...a Tier 1 deck...beats people's faces in with Deso Demon...
1. He does combo with his weapon. Lifelink to your other guys to fuel his draw ability.
2. It is more like Bow=Whip>Hammer>Spear>Bident
3. Erebos' thing is NOT to drag souls back to the underworld and hold them there. He's the god of the Dead, and he can raise them if he so chooses. Did you not even read the planeswalker's Guide article that talks about him?
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Haha...no, just no.
Bident => Hammer > Whip > Bow > Spear
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Bident is the weakest of the 5 by a pretty decent margin.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I'm not saying any of them are bad. Just think the static Coastal Piracy and full lure is probably the hardest to take advantage of. I think the whip the hammer and of course the Bow are useful no matter the board state. the other two are a little more dependent.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Well, looking at what we'll have so far:
RDW will likely be a thing still. Not as insane as with Hellrider/Thundermaw/Vexing Devil, but it should stick around. Although Fervor doesn't see much standard play, Fervor+a continuous supply of Dudes could. Also really helps utilize those land clumps that can kill an aggro deck. I think it'll see some amount of play in Standard, but how much I don't know.
The Spear actually could get some play in a *really* slow w/x control deck. I doubt it, though, as it is intensive on the mana, and it's Vigilance isn't going to be much of a boon early on in creature-light decks. I'd give this one a pass.
The Whip can very well see play. There are some juicy targets with it, and anything with enter or leave the battlefield effects will find it as a welcome addition. Junk Reanimator might still be a thing, with the whip, Rescue, and Obzedat's aid providing the reanimation (With *maybe* Gift of Immortality being used). Ash Rider, Abhorrent Overlord, Lord of the Void, Angel of Serenity, etc providing some incredible cards to bring from the yard. Grisly Salvage and Commune with the Gods may see play. The deck is going to lose some of it's Midrange fluidity, however, and may be strictly graveyard based or nearly so.
The Bow is interesting, and makes blocking a nightmare. The added abilities give it a wide range of utility in both midrange and more aggro-centric decks. I'm uncertain if it will find a home, but I wouldn't be surprised.
The Bident is just kinda flat. It'd be great if Blue had good aggro potential, but it doesn't. As it stands there are better options available for the most part.
I think I finally figured it out with Mogis. This set is gonna be single-colored Gods, and the next two sets will be multicolored Gods; aligned for a set and enemy for a different set to comprise all the Gods of the Theros block. That was predictable!
Is is possible then that all those years ago that command was really Erebos'? Balance, you know.
Chainer's Edict
Since the weapons won't be very relevant in anything other than Standard, I'll rate them accordingly. This is, of course, my opinion.
1. Whip: Lifelink matters, and Wizards is pushing monoblack. Either of these two abilities on an enchantment/artifact would have been solid. Both effects on one permanent is amazing. This is the kind of card that you can throw into any deck with creatures, or the kind of card you build around. It plays many different roles.
2. Spear: An improved Glorious Anthem. In a format where creatures are king, and mirror matches are rampant, +1/+1 is a world of difference. Any aggressive white deck will consider this for 1-2 slots in the deck. The activated ability is just gravy, and it can act as a serious deterrent for control decks swinging with finishers. If anything will keep this card down, it's the lack of efficient token makers.
3. Hammer: Fervor is alright, but it's never been anything special. The second ability of this card is where it shines. It gives RDW a finisher. Pumping out 3/3 Haste creatures every turn, especially after a field wipe, can be devastating. I like this card alot, but it will probably only be a sideboard card.
4. Bow: I honestly don't know how to evaluate this card. It's a Swiss Army knife, but with blunted tools. It doesn't do anything amazing, but it does a little bit of everything. Like the Spear, it could be the difference between winning or losing the mirror match. The deathtouch would be great in certain decks, but green isn't usually that kind of deck.
5. Bident: While I enjoy Bident, I just don't see it being relevant. This could be good in a blue based tempo deck, but I don't see anything like that being competitive with the cards we have so far. Also, this card is in direct competition with Jace, AoT. Aggro decks will want something more aggressive, and control decks will want something more controlling. This falls in the weird middle ground.
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I confused the spear with Heliod himself. As such, it might see some standard play if white weenie becomes a thing. I think the the Hammer and Whip will certainly see play (Although Scooze hurts the whip a good deal), and the Spear might if there is a deck for it that shows up. The bow I'm uncertain about, but could get there, and the Trident will be for limited purposes only.
When is the last time you saw a 1/2 gum up the ground game like this might do? Later, it swings.
Will WW be a thing in draft?
~M
Maybe. I do agree that the Bident is a bit narrower in its abilities, but I enjoy the thought of Master of Waves, Tidebinder, Prognostic Sphinx, and of course Thassa being in standard together. They play nice. And that's before you go to a second color.
That being said, the whip is amaztastic. Love it.
Especially since... you know... they kinda explicitly told us that in the Planeswalker's Guide?
Turn 1 satyr/cackler/foundry street
turn 2 ash zealot or shred freak
turn 3 reckoner or pheonix
turn 4.. MOGIS YOUR FACE