I think that we're going to see a few non-city aligned humans in black and red though, as well. With demons and B/R gods running around, particularly Mogis and Iroas, I think we will have black humans around to form cults around them a la Skirsdag Cultist . Also, it's been noted that the wealthy make up an important group of people that worship and pay tribute to Erebos, so I think we may see some black humans in that vein of black as well. I think there may be a Nephalia-like black market kind of thing going on with those people where we can get some B humans.
What else did you expect from the cities? We have Athens, Sparta, and the Amazonians. You can't have a Greek set without Athens and Sparta. Sure, it might be predictable, but isn't that sort of the point?
Besides, I would argue that in Ravnica, the Boros were already somewhat modeled after Spartans and the Azorius take after the Roman Senate. Right off the bat during old Ravnica, that's how I pictured those two guilds. Hell, look at Ravnica's city structure. The buildings also take after the Greek and Roman Civilizations. The Selesnyans also follow this trend a bit with Conclave Phalanx.
I think there were clear Roman and Greek elements in Ravnica, so to say that Theros is Ravnica-rebooted is a bit unfair.
Gotcha. It makes sense in hindsight-
After all, one could easily call Angels "winged humanoids," but that's oversimplifying it a bit.
I also suppose design space for W Monsters is a bit limited by the races it has access to.
To go off on a slight tangent-
I'm not the first person to mention Krond the Dawn-Clad in reference to Theros,
and I definitely don't expect Krond to be in the block,
but it is a little weird to see an Archon (very rare compared to many races)
that cares about Enchantments so much yet has absolutely nothing to do with Theros.
And his counterpart Vela the Night-Clad looks very much of Nyx even though she clearly isn't.
Slightly reckless flavor design, IMO,
but not the end of the world.
Agreed! It would be weird not having them in here since they flavorfully and mechanically fit so well and obviously have SOMETHING to do with this world.
but he only has done 3 planeswalkers out of roughly 63 cards done with his artwork. I personally hope he is a Herakles style PW, but I am not getting my hopes up.
Well Lanathos is on the cover of the booster packs for G, so unless they choose to put a hero on the pack for G, then it's probably a good bet this guy is a PW. That leaves Kiora as the last PW of THS most likely.
Their society seems to only give martial training to women.
However, they do want men to discover their own destiny, and I'm guessing some men might return to the city after doing so. Among them would be warriors and heroes.
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The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
What else did you expect from the cities? We have Athens, Sparta, and the Amazonians. You can't have a Greek set without Athens and Sparta. Sure, it might be predictable, but isn't that sort of the point?
Besides, I would argue that in Ravnica, the Boros were already somewhat modeled after Spartans and the Azorius take after the Roman Senate. Right off the bat during old Ravnica, that's how I pictured those two guilds. Hell, look at Ravnica's city structure. The buildings also take after the Greek and Roman Civilizations. The Selesnyans also follow this trend a bit with Conclave Phalanx.
I think there were clear Roman and Greek elements in Ravnica, so to say that Theros is Ravnica-rebooted is a bit unfair.
I'm not saying Theros is Ravnica rebooted, it's clearly not. All we're saying is that the creativity with these cities leaves a little to be desired. "A group of people, predominantly women, who surround themselves with animals and live among the trees." Who am I describing? Selesnya or Setessa? You don't know. Heck, even the names sound similar. Gavony from Innistrad was g/w aligned yet no one would ever confuse them with Selesnya.
I guess I was expecting something a little more inventive. Hopefully as more info comes out we'll get a better sense of who these people are and be able to make more distinctions, but when I read today's article I couldn't help but feel "hmm where have I heard this before?"
Also, Rosewater stated that Ravnica is based off of Eastern European culture, which does include Greece but includes Russian, Slavic, Baltic and other Balkan cultures as well, and a lot of the names in Ravnica are taken from Slavic languages. The buildings are actually modeled mostly after medieval and Renaissance architecture, not Classical Greek and Roman.
"A group of people, predominantly women, who surround themselves with animals and live among the trees." Who am I describing? Selesnya or Setessa? You don't know.
Dryads are female :P. Also, you're basing that off of one card? If you look through the cards, you'll notice they're mostly female (humans, elves, dryads, whathaveyou.)
I guess I was expecting something a little more inventive. Hopefully as more info comes out we'll get a better sense of who these people are and be able to make more distinctions, but when I read today's article I couldn't help but feel "hmm where have I heard this before?"
I can see it that way, too now that you clarify it. But, I still think that they've got a very interesting slam dunk so far. I don't really think they had much room to deviate to be honest. Akros(Sparta) needs to have a lot in common with the Boros Legion just as Meletis(Athens) ought to have a lot in common with Azorius. Otherwise, they wouldn't really capture the spirit of the Greeks they are based on. I think that when we actually start getting cards coming in, we'll be able to see clear differences between the denizens of Akros and members of the Boros Legion. There will be distinguishing features just as there always are.
As far as Setessa goes, they seem a whole lot more like new Selesnya than the old Selesnya. I think that the shift from primarily saprolings to centaurs showed a militaristic shift in Selesnya's philosophy over the years or something I think that the Stessans are quite different from how Selesnya started.
I'm also not totally conviced that each city will be strictly two colors. To that point, I'm actually very interested in seeing how the male element turns out. With all of the falconers and raptors and such, I woudln't be too surprised if Setessa actually ended up Bant. Also, the guide mentions that they still do worship the earth god, so they may have room for tinges of red as well.
For their part, I think Meletis just may wind up with more artifacts than the other poleis. The article mentions their architectural prowess and math skills multiple times.
Cymede's story suggests that there also might be something more to Akros than just Boros beatdown soldier guys. It says that she is getting to know nymphs, which must be green, and the weather god. With the cannibals listed under their section, some Akros might drift into black as well.
I'm just thinking that if we give it some time, clear differences from Ravnica guilds may develop and maybe even some total surprises.
Dryads are female :P. Also, you're basing that off of one card? If you look through the cards, you'll notice they're mostly female (humans, elves, dryads, whathaveyou.)
I can see it that way, too now that you clarify it. But, I still think that they've got a very interesting slam dunk so far. I don't really think they had much room to deviate to be honest. Akros(Sparta) needs to have a lot in common with the Boros Legion just as Meletis(Athens) ought to have a lot in common with Azorius. Otherwise, they wouldn't really capture the spirit of the Greeks they are based on. I think that when we actually start getting cards coming in, we'll be able to see clear differences between the denizens of Akros and members of the Boros Legion. There will be distinguishing features just as there always are.
As far as Setessa goes, they seem a whole lot more like new Selesnya than the old Selesnya. I think that the shift from primarily saprolings to centaurs showed a militaristic shift in Selesnya's philosophy over the years or something I think that the Stessans are quite different from how Selesnya started.
I'm also not totally conviced that each city will be strictly two colors. To that point, I'm actually very interested in seeing how the male element turns out. With all of the falconers and raptors and such, I woudln't be too surprised if Setessa actually ended up Bant. Also, the guide mentions that they still do worship the earth god, so they may have room for tinges of red as well.
For their part, I think Meletis just may wind up with more artifacts than the other poleis. The article mentions their architectural prowess and math skills multiple times.
Cymede's story suggests that there also might be something more to Akros than just Boros beatdown soldier guys. It says that she is getting to know nymphs, which must be green, and the weather god. With the cannibals listed under their section, some Akros might drift into black as well.
I'm just thinking that if we give it some time, clear differences from Ravnica guilds may develop and maybe even some total surprises.
Most of this work is brilliant in execution, but I fear Theros will have the same problems as Innistrad with too much redundant & repeated imagery. Togas, spears, centurion helmets and columns on every card.
What we know about Heliod:
- He destroyed a city because he didn't like it
- He got so scared of his own shadow he banished it to the underworld
- He is an *******
What we know about Erebos:
- Chill as **** *****
- Doesn't like all the ****ed up **** crazy people do in his name
- Kindly guides people to their fates like a guardian mother****ing angel
- Total bro
I think you're right
Thus far, I tend to agree with you guys. I would really love getting a nice white villain. Konda, Lord of Eiganjo is the classic, white villain in Magic as far as I know, so it would be nice to get a better one.
Erebos seems like the angel in hell. Everything written about Erebos seems to suggest that he is kind of like a Sorin Markov-type of black. We see in the guide that Erebos has compassion, only "inflicting pain when he must," and he is at peace rather than gleeful when he sees people suffering.
lolwut. You're gonna have to come up with more examples there, buddy.
Lolwut, they're lead by females, buddy. It wasn't really my point that they are only females, just that both the guild and the city lean toward the feminine side, which isn't really even debatable. This is one of many other things that the "Setessnyans" share. If you read my original post maybe you could keep up
Anyway, I Pulse of Shift and I kinda already came to an agreement on this topic so enough of these shenanigans.
Ditto on the ethnic diversity. Words cannot express how overjoyed I am to see so many awesome images of humans that aren't white men. All of the art is truly outstanding, but seeing that the ethnic slant of Theros seems to be towards darker skin tones is icing on the cake for me.
I too am loving that olive skin tone that a lot of the humans here are sporting - reminds me a bit of Bant.
I also doubt that Lanathos is a Planeswalker; even if there is more to his art that they hid to disguise its possible nature as a planeswalker, the way he sits in the composition just doesn't look like he's a 'walker. Plus, I think they'd mention it in his bio if he were.
Really amazing world-building and art (both concept and final) here.
I personally liked this too, it gives more to the flavor of the period IMHO
THIS. ALL OF THIS!!! I haven't loved a set's art this much since Mirage. I'm even thinking of dressing up as Erebos or Lanathos for Halloween this year.
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There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
Well Lanathos is on the cover of the booster packs for G, so unless they choose to put a hero on the pack for G, then it's probably a good bet this guy is a PW. That leaves Kiora as the last PW of THS most likely.
I was convinced that he was a walker from the booster packs because he was a black guy.
Then the style guide showed the Setessan population has a fair share of black people in it.
>shrug
Easy come, easy go.
What we know about Erebos:
- Chill as **** *****
- Doesn't like all the ****ed up **** crazy people do in his name
- Kindly guides people to their fates like a guardian mother****ing angel
- Total bro
It's nice to see Erebos depicted in this way, since most versions of death gods nowadays tend to fall victim to Everybody Hates Hades.
I just hope Tritons are just another way of saying "merfolk". RTR block left me disappointed at the lack of merfolk. Especially considering all the lore about the sinkholes spitting out Merfolk like nothing. Also sounds like the Triton hero will have "hexproof"/"shroud"/"protection" judging from the lore about him never being able to get hit. Unless that is fancy speak for being able to fly...
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
On the other hand, lets not pretend we cant see the roses´ prickles. Sufferance still brings him peace, which means that in nature he is not directly aligned with what we would call good. Dont be too fast to directly reverse the notions of ´good´ and ´evil´ and impose those titles on Erebos and Heliod. Its probably a bit more of a gray area, with Heliods nature probably leading him to cause more trouble than Erebos ever will, and could be capable of, given his ´inferior´ position.
To clear things up, it might be better to suggest that Erebos might be more of a protagonist while Heliod is an antagonist in the story. Like their Greek counterparts, it will probably be true that none of the gods are a shining example of perfect morality, but I don't think many (except possibly Mogis?) will be completely evil either. Of course there will be gray areas. We should expect that. But, it seems like from what we've seen, Erebos fits the definition of a somewhat moral good guy.
I would argue that the "peace" that he feels is "good" because it is based on what should be a mutual comfort; according to the guide, both Erebos and the dying can come to identify with each other through this peace. What's not good about that? According to nature, every mortal is going to feel suffering. To me, the characterization of Erebos seems to suggest that he simply wants humans to feel the same peace that he does when they are confronted with pain, suffering, alienation, and banishment. Erebos is a shoulder to cry on when you're down in the dumps.
I think the paragraph about worshipers clearly positions Erebos in a positive light. In his acceptance of his fate, and in his lack of what would really be justified hatred of Helios, Erebos shows that he doesn't really like the group of worshipers that wish to see a confrontation between Erebos and Heliod. Erebos seems to want to reconcile any differences with Heliod and never to fight Heliod because "he will always stand behind the sun god." So, I would say that Erebos completely shuns the ideas of this group of "chaotic evil," Rakdos-like worshipers.
On the other hand, Erebos shows that he loves worshipers who pray to him for the strength to accept their fates. After all, the group of worshipers that actively seek out acceptance of their are "closest to Erebos's heart."
It would be nice to have a story, where Heliod goes on another excess that is just a little too much for some hero, at which point Erebos comes in and, partly because of his personal goals, helps him bring sanity back to the god of the sun.
I think that this would be great and fitting... very Sorin-like.
Lolwut, they're lead by females, buddy. It wasn't really my point that they are only females, just that both the guild and the city lean toward the feminine side, which isn't really even debatable. This is one of many other things that the "Setessnyans" share. If you read my original post maybe you could keep up
I did read you posts. Maybe you didn't, because in them you said:
If you look through the cards, you'll notice they're mostly female (humans, elves, dryads, whathaveyou.)
(emphasis mine)
There are 77 cards with the Selesnyan watermark on them. Three women is a long way off from "predominantly" or "mostly" female.
And the fact that the Selesnyans are lead by women means nothing. Every guildleader the Boros has had has been an angel, and female, but that doesn't mean that the guild is predominantly angels, nor does it mean that the guild "leans toward the feminine side".
I did read you posts. Maybe you didn't, because in them you said:
(emphasis mine)
There are 77 cards with the Selesnyan watermark on them. Three women is a long way off from "predominantly" or "mostly" female.
And the fact that the Selesnyans are lead by women means nothing. Every guildleader the Boros has had has been an angel, and female, but that doesn't mean that the guild is predominantly angels, nor does it mean that the guild "leans toward the feminine side".
Dude I'm not going to list off every Selesnyan card that has females on it. Or do you actually think those are the only three? Perhaps you missed my point so I'll speak slowly. Yes, I only mentioned three right there. But they aren't just three random cards are they? No, they're very important cards that represent the leadership of the guild. You have Emmara, Trostani, and if you look back to the original you have the Chorus of the Conclave. Yes Tolsimir was one of the legendaries too, but that's three out of four (a lot more actually if you count the number of people represented in the art.) The most legendary "women" of any guild.
And if you look through the cards you'll see lots of dryads, elves, centaurs, etc. that are female. Not all, but that wasn't even my point. My point was that both Setessa and Selesnya lead toward the feminine side. Selesnya more than any other guild, Setessa more than any other polis.
Also, your Boros comparison doesn't even make sense. The Boros and Selesnya are very different if you haven't noticed. Did you know Both the Boros champions have been male? Also yes the Boros have angels, but they are the kind that'll smash anything over the head that moves without even thinking about it. Meanwhile in both Selesnya and Setessa you got a bunch of chicks chilling out with animals and trees.
What else did you expect from the cities? We have Athens, Sparta, and the Amazonians. You can't have a Greek set without Athens and Sparta. Sure, it might be predictable, but isn't that sort of the point?
Besides, I would argue that in Ravnica, the Boros were already somewhat modeled after Spartans and the Azorius take after the Roman Senate. Right off the bat during old Ravnica, that's how I pictured those two guilds. Hell, look at Ravnica's city structure. The buildings also take after the Greek and Roman Civilizations. The Selesnyans also follow this trend a bit with Conclave Phalanx.
I think there were clear Roman and Greek elements in Ravnica, so to say that Theros is Ravnica-rebooted is a bit unfair.
Agreed! It would be weird not having them in here since they flavorfully and mechanically fit so well and obviously have SOMETHING to do with this world.
Well Lanathos is on the cover of the booster packs for G, so unless they choose to put a hero on the pack for G, then it's probably a good bet this guy is a PW. That leaves Kiora as the last PW of THS most likely.
However, they do want men to discover their own destiny, and I'm guessing some men might return to the city after doing so. Among them would be warriors and heroes.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
I'm not saying Theros is Ravnica rebooted, it's clearly not. All we're saying is that the creativity with these cities leaves a little to be desired. "A group of people, predominantly women, who surround themselves with animals and live among the trees." Who am I describing? Selesnya or Setessa? You don't know. Heck, even the names sound similar. Gavony from Innistrad was g/w aligned yet no one would ever confuse them with Selesnya.
I guess I was expecting something a little more inventive. Hopefully as more info comes out we'll get a better sense of who these people are and be able to make more distinctions, but when I read today's article I couldn't help but feel "hmm where have I heard this before?"
Also, Rosewater stated that Ravnica is based off of Eastern European culture, which does include Greece but includes Russian, Slavic, Baltic and other Balkan cultures as well, and a lot of the names in Ravnica are taken from Slavic languages. The buildings are actually modeled mostly after medieval and Renaissance architecture, not Classical Greek and Roman.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
Dryads are female :P. Also, you're basing that off of one card? If you look through the cards, you'll notice they're mostly female (humans, elves, dryads, whathaveyou.)
Feel free to tell me yours!
I can see it that way, too now that you clarify it. But, I still think that they've got a very interesting slam dunk so far. I don't really think they had much room to deviate to be honest. Akros(Sparta) needs to have a lot in common with the Boros Legion just as Meletis(Athens) ought to have a lot in common with Azorius. Otherwise, they wouldn't really capture the spirit of the Greeks they are based on. I think that when we actually start getting cards coming in, we'll be able to see clear differences between the denizens of Akros and members of the Boros Legion. There will be distinguishing features just as there always are.
As far as Setessa goes, they seem a whole lot more like new Selesnya than the old Selesnya. I think that the shift from primarily saprolings to centaurs showed a militaristic shift in Selesnya's philosophy over the years or something I think that the Stessans are quite different from how Selesnya started.
I'm also not totally conviced that each city will be strictly two colors. To that point, I'm actually very interested in seeing how the male element turns out. With all of the falconers and raptors and such, I woudln't be too surprised if Setessa actually ended up Bant. Also, the guide mentions that they still do worship the earth god, so they may have room for tinges of red as well.
For their part, I think Meletis just may wind up with more artifacts than the other poleis. The article mentions their architectural prowess and math skills multiple times.
Cymede's story suggests that there also might be something more to Akros than just Boros beatdown soldier guys. It says that she is getting to know nymphs, which must be green, and the weather god. With the cannibals listed under their section, some Akros might drift into black as well.
I'm just thinking that if we give it some time, clear differences from Ravnica guilds may develop and maybe even some total surprises.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
Let's see...both their leader and champion are female, as well as their guildmage. My point still stands.
Good point sir, time will certainly tell.
"3 women=predominantly female"
lolwut. You're gonna have to come up with more examples there, buddy.
Their true leader isn't female.
Well, cities are very un-black since they represent community, something black hates.
There was the city of Arixmethes, but it was smitten by Heliod.
RRR Buy some of my art! Prints! RRR
Thus far, I tend to agree with you guys. I would really love getting a nice white villain. Konda, Lord of Eiganjo is the classic, white villain in Magic as far as I know, so it would be nice to get a better one.
Erebos seems like the angel in hell. Everything written about Erebos seems to suggest that he is kind of like a Sorin Markov-type of black. We see in the guide that Erebos has compassion, only "inflicting pain when he must," and he is at peace rather than gleeful when he sees people suffering.
I think this topic deserves its own thread.
Lolwut, they're lead by females, buddy. It wasn't really my point that they are only females, just that both the guild and the city lean toward the feminine side, which isn't really even debatable. This is one of many other things that the "Setessnyans" share. If you read my original post maybe you could keep up
Anyway, I Pulse of Shift and I kinda already came to an agreement on this topic so enough of these shenanigans.
THIS. ALL OF THIS!!! I haven't loved a set's art this much since Mirage. I'm even thinking of dressing up as Erebos or Lanathos for Halloween this year.
I was convinced that he was a walker from the booster packs because he was a black guy.
Then the style guide showed the Setessan population has a fair share of black people in it.
>shrug
Easy come, easy go.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
It's nice to see Erebos depicted in this way, since most versions of death gods nowadays tend to fall victim to Everybody Hates Hades.
Also, that quote is totally going into my sig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
To clear things up, it might be better to suggest that Erebos might be more of a protagonist while Heliod is an antagonist in the story. Like their Greek counterparts, it will probably be true that none of the gods are a shining example of perfect morality, but I don't think many (except possibly Mogis?) will be completely evil either. Of course there will be gray areas. We should expect that. But, it seems like from what we've seen, Erebos fits the definition of a somewhat moral good guy.
I would argue that the "peace" that he feels is "good" because it is based on what should be a mutual comfort; according to the guide, both Erebos and the dying can come to identify with each other through this peace. What's not good about that? According to nature, every mortal is going to feel suffering. To me, the characterization of Erebos seems to suggest that he simply wants humans to feel the same peace that he does when they are confronted with pain, suffering, alienation, and banishment. Erebos is a shoulder to cry on when you're down in the dumps.
I think the paragraph about worshipers clearly positions Erebos in a positive light. In his acceptance of his fate, and in his lack of what would really be justified hatred of Helios, Erebos shows that he doesn't really like the group of worshipers that wish to see a confrontation between Erebos and Heliod. Erebos seems to want to reconcile any differences with Heliod and never to fight Heliod because "he will always stand behind the sun god." So, I would say that Erebos completely shuns the ideas of this group of "chaotic evil," Rakdos-like worshipers.
On the other hand, Erebos shows that he loves worshipers who pray to him for the strength to accept their fates. After all, the group of worshipers that actively seek out acceptance of their are "closest to Erebos's heart."
I think that this would be great and fitting... very Sorin-like.
I did read you posts. Maybe you didn't, because in them you said:
(emphasis mine)
There are 77 cards with the Selesnyan watermark on them. Three women is a long way off from "predominantly" or "mostly" female.
And the fact that the Selesnyans are lead by women means nothing. Every guildleader the Boros has had has been an angel, and female, but that doesn't mean that the guild is predominantly angels, nor does it mean that the guild "leans toward the feminine side".
Dude I'm not going to list off every Selesnyan card that has females on it. Or do you actually think those are the only three? Perhaps you missed my point so I'll speak slowly. Yes, I only mentioned three right there. But they aren't just three random cards are they? No, they're very important cards that represent the leadership of the guild. You have Emmara, Trostani, and if you look back to the original you have the Chorus of the Conclave. Yes Tolsimir was one of the legendaries too, but that's three out of four (a lot more actually if you count the number of people represented in the art.) The most legendary "women" of any guild.
And if you look through the cards you'll see lots of dryads, elves, centaurs, etc. that are female. Not all, but that wasn't even my point. My point was that both Setessa and Selesnya lead toward the feminine side. Selesnya more than any other guild, Setessa more than any other polis.
Also, your Boros comparison doesn't even make sense. The Boros and Selesnya are very different if you haven't noticed. Did you know Both the Boros champions have been male? Also yes the Boros have angels, but they are the kind that'll smash anything over the head that moves without even thinking about it. Meanwhile in both Selesnya and Setessa you got a bunch of chicks chilling out with animals and trees.