Infect is not irrelevant to what Inkmoth does- if you have no other infect cards, it's a relatively slow clock, whereas while Mutavault doesn't have evasion, it does get to work in harmony with the other dudes you're smashing in with conventional damage.
I know your point, but if we are looking at the two cards clocks, they are both ten turns. 1/1 infect creatures are effectively 2/2 due to only needing 10 points. I'm sure there's a build out there that would love both though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Petition to stop WotC from making M:tG cards that do not fit my specific likes! Join the revolution! If not you, then who?
Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.-Friedrich Nietzsche
Sometimes I feel like the word "interactivity" around here is akin to the word "electrolytes" in sports drinks. The public doesn't really know what it means, but they figure it's a good thing to have.
I get the idea that a lot of people are really bad at playing control of they want this particular man land in this particular Standard environment.
Add to Inkmoth, I have one word: Flying. ?
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
Infect is not irrelevant to what Inkmoth does- if you have no other infect cards, it's a relatively slow clock, whereas while Mutavault doesn't have evasion, it does get to work in harmony with the other dudes you're smashing in with conventional damage.
No, but those two examples are worlds apart from mutavault. Without tribal synergies, mutavault is a colorless land that provides a slow clock. Keep in mind that I'm only talking about up to Theros here(too hard to predict post rotation standard), but standard has too many things that make mutavault bad just by existing. First problem for the little guy is that 3 color decks are the norm and most decks don't have room for more than 2 colorless lands. In the color combinations that would seem to want mutavault the most, Gavony Township, and Kessig Wolf Run seem like stronger options. There are definitely some other options that exist out there, and maybe this guy is what esper spirits or R/B vampires is looking for, but if mutavault is in it is almost certainly intended as a boon for slivers for now. The tribal decks that exist right now don't want it (naya blitz, humanimator, zombies) as the mana requirements are too intensive. The control decks that are out there aren't going to want it either. Control right now has a win condition (drownyard) that is actually aided by the best spell from the mirror (revelation), a finisher (aetherling) that is almost impossible to remove while also being difficult to race, bant has a finisher (wolf run) that allows them to be much more proactive and run a lot of creatures, and UWR has a finisher (assemble the legions) that doesn't die to much that is seeing play in maindecks in standard.
Creeping tar pit and celestial colonnade on the other hand were evasive mana fixers. They also passed the jace test which was super important at the time. Colonnade also has half the clock mutavault does, and in modern where it still sees play, there isn't much that can actually block it w/o dying.
What's up with that "hurt feelings" and "unecessary anger" stuff? Nobody has his jimmies rustled because of your suggestions, please stop acting like a princess. People just disagree with you that this will be a auto-addition in 3+-colour control decks.
Gravecrawler can't block, no control deck wants that card. Decks playing Gravecrawler probably also have Geralf's Messenger, so the last thing they want is another land that doesn't tap for mana. Your suggestions are legitimate, they just aren't strong.
Please find where I said that it was an "auto-addition in 3+-colour control decks". You're going to have a hard time. I don't really feel like I am the one being a "princess".
All I have said is that it seems good. A recurring threat for one mana alongside a 2/2 manland that enables it doesn't seem so terrible for control. The point is that you won't have to run Geralf's Messenger with Mutavault in your deck. You can tap two mana and have a creature on board. This leaves mana open for counters, planeswalkers, card draw, whatever you want.
I see where you're coming from. Again, if you don't like it, I'm sorry. I'm not telling you you have to build a deck with it.
And so do creatures with flying. And typically in this format they're in the exact same deck.
The point you're missing is that when you split your efforts you're typically going to do them less well than if you've a more focused plan of attack.
Yes, a Mutavault isn't likely getting past a Thragtusk.
But an inkmoth isn't likely getting past a Resto, either.
However, until inkmoth gets past them 10 times, it's attacks are entirely worthless.
Even if the damage done gets negated by lifegain, there's actual value each time the Mutavault gets through... and the only time where that won't be the case is when your opponent manages to get themselves up to an arbitrarily large life total... and if they've done that in format- they probably have just as many ways to answer that inkmoth of yours.
Infect is not irrelevant to what Inkmoth does- if you have no other infect cards, it's a relatively slow clock, whereas while Mutavault doesn't have evasion, it does get to work in harmony with the other dudes you're smashing in with conventional damage.
Not the strongest thing ever but a friend of mine put Inkmoth in his W/B exalted deck
I only skimmed through but I think you guys are looking at this all wrong. Mutavault doesn't have to have an application in the current or next standard beginning in the fall. Mutavault works well as a draft card as an early 2/2 beater without having to commit to the board. Secondly, it's a very easy way to increase the supply of vaults for legacy and modern. If someone happens to find a use for it currently or in the future that's great but increasing supply is probably more on Wizards mind since it has been a steadily high in demand card with a $20-25 price tag.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grats, here is your cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
ITT: People forgetting that Mutavault can fit in various aggro decks and control decks, because it's just that good of a card.
Standard Zombies probably wants Geralf's Messenger more than Mutavault so I'm not so sure about that one.
I'm thinking Mutavault will start off around $20-$25, simply due to demand from casual players and the competitive people that don't have them yet. Then it will probably sink down from there as the set gets drafted. How much Standard play it will see should also define its value, so there's a number of future possibilities for each set release.
However, I'd be surprised to see Mutavault ever dip below $15. And I'd be gobsmacked at an $8 range. That is unless we see yet another printing in a future Event Deck, then I guess it could happen.
Whether or not it worked does not validate the play. That's hindsight probability. Let's say I offered you a bet -- I'm going to flip a coin and if it's heads, I'll give you 1 dollar but if it's tails, you'll give me 2 dollars. This is obviously a terrible bet for you. Accepting it is a bad decision. You can't justify it afterwards by arguing that you won the flip, therefore you made the right decision.
glad to hear this card is finally available at a more realistic price. im really shying away from a lot of the hype from mm and reprints here. im thinking the prices of lots of staples are going to be working their way downard, and not the originals, but the reprints themselves
Agree on most reprints, but not MM, which will have a lower supply than originals of the same card.
Reprints in Standard-legal sets will increase the supply by more than double even at the mythic rarity. Typically, this significantly reduces the prices of originals, as well, since both have the same utility in the game itself. There are exceptions like Mutilate and Ground Seal, which received a price boost, but this is rare and largely due to demand reaching new heights.
Just a quick explanation on why I spoiled in the N&N crunch rather than a new thread.
First, I had started a new thread. But I quickly realized that of all the content in my post, Mutavault and Grotto being spoiled were less than the updates to the N&N crunch. So I merged my thread into that one.
Sorry guys! Normally I would have done a thread!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Crazy to expect $15? Definitely not. But some ppl here are saying 8-10 and that's just lol-able.
Lol-able? Not really. This card barely sees any Modern play, almost none. Most of the demand is going to come from standard and I don't see it having a huge impact on that format. Most decks are 3-4 colors and can't afford a land that produces colorless mana. Even then some decks could maybe take the ISD block lands like Kessig Wolf Run over Mutavault.
It all depends on the hype. If people desire this card and FEEL that it's valuable, the card will keep some value. Otherwise I'd expect it to drop considerably because it doesn't have a place in standard right now. Just like the Innistrad block lands people will realize they'd rather have a strong mana base and play more colors, and therefor more powerful spells, than have colorless lands with upside. Mutavault is a great card but I'd compare it more like Inkmoth Nexus, arguably better, which peaked at $15 and dropped to $5. Then keep in mind there are already Mutavaults out there. Theros might bring some tribal into the mix, which could change things, but I don't see Mutavault doing much at the moment.
Mutavault will likely do what the shocks did. The originals dropped down below 20, and the new ones are sub 10 for the most part. What is significant to note is the shocls are more necessary in 99% of decks compared to mutavault.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Mutavaut this time around is less appealing due to its colorless mana, as well as the lack of tribal interactions (Innistrad is about to rotate). That is, unless Theros's envionment needs it.
Has anyone mentioned its use in the Naya Blitz? Having a 2/2, essentially for 1 colorless, that works well with Mayor, and Battalion(Boros Elite/Frontline Medic) is a pretty nice boost, especially since it can jump out of being a land to block, and can avoid supreme verdict. Being colorless, I could see it as being a definite 2-of, in place of some of the buddy-lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"With this hand, I'll create victory! My courage will NEVER DIE!"
Has anyone mentioned its use in the Naya Blitz? Having a 2/2, essentially for 1 colorless, that works well with Mayor, and Battalion(Boros Elite/Frontline Medic) is a pretty nice boost, especially since it can jump out of being a land to block, and can avoid supreme verdict. Being colorless, I could see it as being a definite 2-of, in place of some of the buddy-lands.
LOL. Not happening in that deck. Worst possible example you could come up with.
Despite his tone, jturphy is right, blitz is a 20-21 land 3 color deck has heavy colored mana requirements from turn 1 on. There is just no room for a colorless land.
All this printing does is make life easier for the Modern/Legacy Fish player who actually plays Merfolk. It also opens up a considerable amount of cash to throw at any future Modern Vial-Sliver decks.
This reprint will not affect standard, nor was it intended to in my opinion. Turning Shock into Stone Rain is not very good.
I really don't understand why there are arguments about this card.
It's clearly in the set to help Sliver decks while they're around.
Theros might benefit as well,
but this is really just for Slivers as far as Standard is concerned as of M14.
I don't think they printed it expecting it to boost several Standard decks-
They printed it to boost one while increasing the supply for Modern.
It's a smart move, really.
If this were a heavy tribal environment like Lorwyn,
it would not be a cheap card to obtain.
And isn't that kind of the point?
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Besides slivers what deck in standard would want a mutavault? I can think of zombies vampires and humans and that about it. I cannot think of many decks that will use this card. I will use it to trigger my champion of the parish though. We need good tribal lords to make this land sizzle!
I know your point, but if we are looking at the two cards clocks, they are both ten turns. 1/1 infect creatures are effectively 2/2 due to only needing 10 points. I'm sure there's a build out there that would love both though.
Banner ala Lymons
Life gain exists
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
No, but those two examples are worlds apart from mutavault. Without tribal synergies, mutavault is a colorless land that provides a slow clock. Keep in mind that I'm only talking about up to Theros here(too hard to predict post rotation standard), but standard has too many things that make mutavault bad just by existing. First problem for the little guy is that 3 color decks are the norm and most decks don't have room for more than 2 colorless lands. In the color combinations that would seem to want mutavault the most, Gavony Township, and Kessig Wolf Run seem like stronger options. There are definitely some other options that exist out there, and maybe this guy is what esper spirits or R/B vampires is looking for, but if mutavault is in it is almost certainly intended as a boon for slivers for now. The tribal decks that exist right now don't want it (naya blitz, humanimator, zombies) as the mana requirements are too intensive. The control decks that are out there aren't going to want it either. Control right now has a win condition (drownyard) that is actually aided by the best spell from the mirror (revelation), a finisher (aetherling) that is almost impossible to remove while also being difficult to race, bant has a finisher (wolf run) that allows them to be much more proactive and run a lot of creatures, and UWR has a finisher (assemble the legions) that doesn't die to much that is seeing play in maindecks in standard.
Creeping tar pit and celestial colonnade on the other hand were evasive mana fixers. They also passed the jace test which was super important at the time. Colonnade also has half the clock mutavault does, and in modern where it still sees play, there isn't much that can actually block it w/o dying.
Please find where I said that it was an "auto-addition in 3+-colour control decks". You're going to have a hard time. I don't really feel like I am the one being a "princess".
All I have said is that it seems good. A recurring threat for one mana alongside a 2/2 manland that enables it doesn't seem so terrible for control. The point is that you won't have to run Geralf's Messenger with Mutavault in your deck. You can tap two mana and have a creature on board. This leaves mana open for counters, planeswalkers, card draw, whatever you want.
I see where you're coming from. Again, if you don't like it, I'm sorry. I'm not telling you you have to build a deck with it.
And so do creatures with flying. And typically in this format they're in the exact same deck.
The point you're missing is that when you split your efforts you're typically going to do them less well than if you've a more focused plan of attack.
Yes, a Mutavault isn't likely getting past a Thragtusk.
But an inkmoth isn't likely getting past a Resto, either.
However, until inkmoth gets past them 10 times, it's attacks are entirely worthless.
Even if the damage done gets negated by lifegain, there's actual value each time the Mutavault gets through... and the only time where that won't be the case is when your opponent manages to get themselves up to an arbitrarily large life total... and if they've done that in format- they probably have just as many ways to answer that inkmoth of yours.
Not the strongest thing ever but a friend of mine put Inkmoth in his W/B exalted deck
I have died to it many times now
Standard Zombies probably wants Geralf's Messenger more than Mutavault so I'm not so sure about that one.
I'm thinking Mutavault will start off around $20-$25, simply due to demand from casual players and the competitive people that don't have them yet. Then it will probably sink down from there as the set gets drafted. How much Standard play it will see should also define its value, so there's a number of future possibilities for each set release.
However, I'd be surprised to see Mutavault ever dip below $15. And I'd be gobsmacked at an $8 range. That is unless we see yet another printing in a future Event Deck, then I guess it could happen.
Cube on Cubetutor
Come trade with Puca Trade!, the best place to get those hard to get cards no one else will trade!
Reprints in Standard-legal sets will increase the supply by more than double even at the mythic rarity. Typically, this significantly reduces the prices of originals, as well, since both have the same utility in the game itself. There are exceptions like Mutilate and Ground Seal, which received a price boost, but this is rare and largely due to demand reaching new heights.
First, I had started a new thread. But I quickly realized that of all the content in my post, Mutavault and Grotto being spoiled were less than the updates to the N&N crunch. So I merged my thread into that one.
Sorry guys! Normally I would have done a thread!
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Lol-able? Not really. This card barely sees any Modern play, almost none. Most of the demand is going to come from standard and I don't see it having a huge impact on that format. Most decks are 3-4 colors and can't afford a land that produces colorless mana. Even then some decks could maybe take the ISD block lands like Kessig Wolf Run over Mutavault.
It all depends on the hype. If people desire this card and FEEL that it's valuable, the card will keep some value. Otherwise I'd expect it to drop considerably because it doesn't have a place in standard right now. Just like the Innistrad block lands people will realize they'd rather have a strong mana base and play more colors, and therefor more powerful spells, than have colorless lands with upside. Mutavault is a great card but I'd compare it more like Inkmoth Nexus, arguably better, which peaked at $15 and dropped to $5. Then keep in mind there are already Mutavaults out there. Theros might bring some tribal into the mix, which could change things, but I don't see Mutavault doing much at the moment.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Mutavaut this time around is less appealing due to its colorless mana, as well as the lack of tribal interactions (Innistrad is about to rotate). That is, unless Theros's envionment needs it.
Watch out! I'm playing the Naya Blitz!
LOL. Not happening in that deck. Worst possible example you could come up with.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
This reprint will not affect standard, nor was it intended to in my opinion. Turning Shock into Stone Rain is not very good.
It's clearly in the set to help Sliver decks while they're around.
Theros might benefit as well,
but this is really just for Slivers as far as Standard is concerned as of M14.
I don't think they printed it expecting it to boost several Standard decks-
They printed it to boost one while increasing the supply for Modern.
It's a smart move, really.
If this were a heavy tribal environment like Lorwyn,
it would not be a cheap card to obtain.
And isn't that kind of the point?
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
When the game was 1/30th of it's current popularity.
No consideration of that right?
No you won't.
Control wants man-lands like celestial colonnade (evasion, huge blocker) or tarpit. Mutavault in a control deck is basically a quicksand.
how do you explain the 2008 world champion deck Faeries Control that played 4 mutavaults and 1 Faerie conclave, and not the other way around?
........................
UW