Considering that it's a colorless man-land that can activate for a single mana, I'd be shocked if a whole variety of decks didn't play it.
The key word in your post is colorless. Decks in Standard right now are extremely color intensive. To pay a colorless land is a huge cost, so the upside has to be huge. A worse Mishra's Factory is not a card most decks will want. It's a good card, but in this environment, I could see a world where it sees little play.
Crazy to expect $15? Definitely not. But some ppl here are saying 8-10 and that's just lol-able.
It is what I call "harsh reality". The increased supply of opened product combined with the lower blanket value of cards printed at "rare" is why speculating/investing in the game as a whole is difficult to do since the inception of the mythic rarity.
You call it "LOL-able", but I call it "*sigh*-able"...as will be my reaction upon the release of any high-valued card of the past into a Standard-legal set.
I don't see this dropping below 20 bucks. It's used in every format, in almost all deck builds this guy is useful. Even if the market was absolutely flooded with mutavault, it would take more than one reprinting to drop the price below 20 imho.
$10 seems very likely, I'd say $15 is overly optimistic. Looking at standard now, what rares claim a $20 price tag? The only things even close are Snapcaster and Cavern of Souls, both standard staples that see play in eternal formats (more play than Mutavault currently does). Deathrite Shaman is IMO the best comparison for Mutavault, seeing moderate standard and eternal play, sitting right at $10.
$10 seems very likely, I'd say $15 is overly optimistic. Looking at standard now, what rares claim a $20 price tag? The only things even close are Snapcaster and Cavern of Souls, both standard staples that see play in eternal formats (more play than Mutavault currently does). Deathrite Shaman is IMO the best comparison for Mutavault, seeing moderate standard and eternal play, sitting right at $10.
Hot dog, we have a weiner!
And RE: Morningtide's popularity, it is also the set out of the 4 in its block with the highest density of "junk" rares. While it was in Standard, only Bitterblossom and Mutavault were desirable. Door of Destinies took time to appreciate, especially being the release foil. Idyllic Tutor gained steam when its effect began to disappear from future sets. Vendilion Clique only gained its appreciation after it left Standard (and I will never know why, as it always looked like a sick card to me).
It is what I call "harsh reality". The increased supply of opened product combined with the lower blanket value of cards printed at "rare" is why speculating/investing in the game as a whole is difficult to do since the inception of the mythic rarity.
You call it "LOL-able", but I call it "*sigh*-able"...as will be my reaction upon the release of any high-valued card of the past into a Standard-legal set.
Mutavault dropping to $15 is already pretty harsh for players who paid premium value to either play with or speculate on. Thinking a card like Mutavault would be only 8-10 is just insane.
Consider Mutavault is a new card, akin to Cavern of Souls. Let's call it Newvault. For Standard alone people would need 4 copies, so that's already $20 minimum as Newvault is basically akin to Snapcaster/Restoration/Thragtusk/etc (and consider Tusk appeared in multiple event decks and restoration is a release promo). $25 would not be illogical for Newvault.
The fact that it's ALREADY a proven Modern-legal card makes players not interested in Standard but interested in Modern also join the demand and keep it high (just as it happens with Snapcaster, actually).
Then, the fact that Mutavault already exists will bring the price to $15, maaaaaaaaaybe $12 at an all-time low. But then it's what I said: people who paid a really high price for Mutavault ($30 or more - it's $35 now and sold out. What was the peak? $50?) won't sell if it hits a low floor (on average, obviously - people who stop playing or desperately need another card but need to sell something and a million other possible exceptions will, but I mean under normal conditions). Mutavault is a card that will rise again after it gets out of Standard, same thing as most older-format staples. They are very high when they are in Standard, then drop a lot when rotation is near or just happened, and then start to rise again. Selling Mutavault for 8 or 10 or 12 is not going to be a good decision for people who paid a lot for it and can wait, because it will see play forever in Modern plus a variety of other possible formats.
$15-20 is already half of what Mutavault is going for. I think this drop is reasonable, anything more than that is unlikely - and I'll consider buying a ton of copies if it reaches 10 or something, for the future.
Do people expect Mutavault to go up or down in price due to this reprint?
I'm guessing down, but by how much? I really need a set of these for my Modern decks, so I am glad they reprinted it.
Depends on if Mythic or Rare. If Rare i'd say it will see a slight drop to around 20$ (basing this off of it being 20-25$ when it was in standard before) as it will be an incredibly useful card in the current standard environment, and is clearly a staple in Modern and Merfolk in Legacy. It may not drop at all and may go up in price as the reprints may not meet the demand to put them in their decks. It being in a Core set means that it won't be cracked heavily so it won't be in circulation as much as say a large expansion set. It will decrease at initial print and then slowly increase till post rotation/no more prints and then increase as Modern demand takes over and scarcity begins to kick in again.
Everybody focuses on the tribal flavor of Mutavault and forgets how great man-lands in general are. Any aggro deck that can afford a land that taps for colorless wants this as an extra threat, mana sink, and sorcery speed dodger.
Who is everybody and where are they ignoring the main reasons Mutavault is good?
And RE: Morningtide's popularity, it is also the set out of the 4 in its block with the highest density of "junk" rares. While it was in Standard, only Bitterblossom and Mutavault were desirable.
Mutavault dropping to $15 is already pretty harsh for players who paid premium value to either play with or speculate on. Thinking a card like Mutavault would be only 8-10 is just insane.
Consider Mutavault is a new card, akin to Cavern of Souls. Let's call it Newvault. For Standard alone people would need 4 copies, so that's already $20 minimum as Newvault is basically akin to Snapcaster/Restoration/Thragtusk/etc (and consider Tusk appeared in multiple event decks and restoration is a release promo). $25 would not be illogical for Newvault.
The fact that it's ALREADY a proven Modern-legal card makes players not interested in Standard but interested in Modern also join the demand and keep it high (just as it happens with Snapcaster, actually).
Then, the fact that Mutavault already exists will bring the price to $15, maaaaaaaaaybe $12 at an all-time low. But then it's what I said: people who paid a really high price for Mutavault ($30 or more - it's $35 now and sold out. What was the peak? $50?) won't sell if it hits a low floor (on average, obviously - people who stop playing or desperately need another card but need to sell something and a million other possible exceptions will, but I mean under normal conditions). Mutavault is a card that will rise again after it gets out of Standard, same thing as most older-format staples. They are very high when they are in Standard, then drop a lot when rotation is near or just happened, and then start to rise again. Selling Mutavault for 8 or 10 or 12 is not going to be a good decision for people who paid a lot for it and can wait, because it will see play forever in Modern plus a variety of other possible formats.
$15-20 is already half of what Mutavault is going for. I think this drop is reasonable, anything more than that is unlikely - and I'll consider buying a ton of copies if it reaches 10 or something, for the future.
Make no mistake about it, I am buying many, many copies of the card if it ever reaches $12 or lower. It will take time for it to recover to north of $20, but it may never reach its current peak of $30-40, which is why I advocate a sell signal..
Make no mistake about it, I am buying many, many copies of the card if it ever reaches $12 or lower. It will take time for it to recover to north of $20, but it may never reach its current peak of $30-40, which is why I advocate a sell signal..
Nor it will hit the 8-10 low that ppl are speculating on, which is exactly my point. This will be a $15-25 card for the next year and a half.
I love how we forget the recent past oh so quickly and completely dismiss part of evidence to force our point across.
I mentioned Clique, Bosk was one of those "up in the air" cards that only a few decks needed, but yeah, I will give you the other two. I actually forgot about Colossus, considering it is now a $2-3 card.
That said, look at the main cast of rares from the set. A number of them lack casual and competitive appeal and are doomed to a dollar bin. You cannot say the same about Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, and Eventide, which has very few junk rares between them.
lol man
mutavault will be at last a 1 off in many T2 decks. controll will use it as 2 or 3 in maindeck Mutavault + Ætherling will be controll finishers for sure
people are really underestimating Mutavault right now
even if stock go up demand will also go up:nod:
I mentioned Clique, Bosk was one of those "up in the air" cards that only a few decks needed, but yeah, I will give you the other two. I actually forgot about Colossus, considering it is now a $2-3 card.
That said, look at the main cast of rares from the set. A number of them lack casual and competitive appeal and are doomed to a dollar bin. You cannot say the same about Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, and Eventide, which has very few junk rares between them.
Morningtide was praised as the best set of the block when it was Standard-legal. It has the most fantastic cards, proportionally. Lorwyn had the 5 commands and the 5 walkers, but not much else in the rare department except the tribal duals and a few other things I may be forgetting (it was excellent for commons and uncommons, though).
Shadowmoor is the same: the uncommons were the hotness: Flame Javelin, Ram-Gang, Finks, Redcap, etc, etc. And the 5 filterlands. Eventide was just horrible, Figure of Destiny + Demigod + 5 filters and not much else.
(I'm talking about Standard here btw, before evidence of a million EDH staples arises or something similar)
Soooo tribal is coming back in the greek block? I mean, why else have this? Innistrad is rotating out, RTR didnt really have "lords" and the only tribal like cards in M14 so far are either Slivers, flying creatures, or advocate of the beast. Seems to me like a waste unless tribal returns.
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Morningtide was praised as the best set of the block when it was Standard-legal. It has the most fantastic cards, proportionally. Lorwyn had the 5 commands and the 5 walkers, but not much else in the rare department except the tribal duals and a few other things I may be forgetting (it was excellent for commons and uncommons, though).
Shadowmoor is the same: the uncommons were the hotness: Flame Javelin, Ram-Gang, Finks, Redcap, etc, etc. And the 5 filterlands. Eventide was just horrible, Figure of Destiny + Demigod + 5 filters and not much else.
(I'm talking about Standard here btw, before evidence of a million EDH staples arises or something similar)
I will not chastise you because you failed to mention that Demigod was Shadowmoor, not Eventide--honest mistake. Your point is well-made.
I should clarify that I am speaking on a market standpoint. Morningtide's cards were either competitive viable or junk, with few truly desirable casual cards at rare...not to mention many good C/UC in Standard. Lorwyn not only had hard-hitting competitive cards, but a lot of its utility was used in casual circles. Ditto Shadowmoor. And Eventide was opened in such low amounts that junk rares pretty much do not exist.
lol man
mutavault will be at last a 1 off in many T2 decks. controll will use it as 2 or 3 in maindeck
Mutavault + Ætherling will be controll finishers for sure
people are really underestimating Mutavault right now
even if stock go up demand will also go up
Control decks can not afford to run that many colorless land that are very inefficient at winning the game. A 2/2 just isn't good enough. And having your Mutavault A. Charmed in the mirror would have to be just the worst feeling ever. Drownyard won the game relatively quickly while also allowing you to not tap out and not expose your land to removal. This is not a control deck card.
We've had plenty of cards hit over $20 in Standard, and those weren't going to be played in every deck like Mutavault is. Not to mention they were also in sets that would be drafted longer than 3 months for the most part.
We've had plenty of cards hit over $20 in Standard, and those weren't going to be played in every deck like Mutavault is. Not to mention they were also in sets that would be drafted longer than 3 months for the most part.
1. Mutavault will not come close to play in every deck.
2. What rares and not mythics topped $20? Hint: The answer is not plenty.
1. Mutavault will not come close to play in every deck.
You may be surprised. It's a land that is pure upside as long as you aren't worried about color intensive spells. It will probably see very heavy play.
1. Mutavault will not come close to play in every deck.
You may be surprised. It's a land that is pure upside as long as you aren't worried about color intensive spells. It will probably see very heavy play.
I guess it's a good thing we're not in a multi colored block then. /sarcasm
$8 - 10 sure?
people will want Mutavault casuals will buy to play slivers some will play it in control and human tribal
i really don't see it droping to bellow $20
Really, you expect a price drop of just 5 bucks? Because mutavault currently sells for 25 in some places. Mutavault isn't snapcaster mage level good and this is a reprint. I expect it to be under 15 with ease, probably under 10. If it was a mythic sure but WotC won't put this land at mythic. It has no flavor significance like eye of ugin and maze's end.
Excited to be picking up cheap playsets of ooze and mutavault though. If thoughtseize is in, this will probably be the best core set ever outside of alpha/beta.
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Crazy to expect $15? Definitely not. But some ppl here are saying 8-10 and that's just lol-able.
The key word in your post is colorless. Decks in Standard right now are extremely color intensive. To pay a colorless land is a huge cost, so the upside has to be huge. A worse Mishra's Factory is not a card most decks will want. It's a good card, but in this environment, I could see a world where it sees little play.
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It is what I call "harsh reality". The increased supply of opened product combined with the lower blanket value of cards printed at "rare" is why speculating/investing in the game as a whole is difficult to do since the inception of the mythic rarity.
You call it "LOL-able", but I call it "*sigh*-able"...as will be my reaction upon the release of any high-valued card of the past into a Standard-legal set.
Hot dog, we have a weiner!
And RE: Morningtide's popularity, it is also the set out of the 4 in its block with the highest density of "junk" rares. While it was in Standard, only Bitterblossom and Mutavault were desirable. Door of Destinies took time to appreciate, especially being the release foil. Idyllic Tutor gained steam when its effect began to disappear from future sets. Vendilion Clique only gained its appreciation after it left Standard (and I will never know why, as it always looked like a sick card to me).
Mutavault dropping to $15 is already pretty harsh for players who paid premium value to either play with or speculate on. Thinking a card like Mutavault would be only 8-10 is just insane.
Consider Mutavault is a new card, akin to Cavern of Souls. Let's call it Newvault. For Standard alone people would need 4 copies, so that's already $20 minimum as Newvault is basically akin to Snapcaster/Restoration/Thragtusk/etc (and consider Tusk appeared in multiple event decks and restoration is a release promo). $25 would not be illogical for Newvault.
The fact that it's ALREADY a proven Modern-legal card makes players not interested in Standard but interested in Modern also join the demand and keep it high (just as it happens with Snapcaster, actually).
Then, the fact that Mutavault already exists will bring the price to $15, maaaaaaaaaybe $12 at an all-time low. But then it's what I said: people who paid a really high price for Mutavault ($30 or more - it's $35 now and sold out. What was the peak? $50?) won't sell if it hits a low floor (on average, obviously - people who stop playing or desperately need another card but need to sell something and a million other possible exceptions will, but I mean under normal conditions). Mutavault is a card that will rise again after it gets out of Standard, same thing as most older-format staples. They are very high when they are in Standard, then drop a lot when rotation is near or just happened, and then start to rise again. Selling Mutavault for 8 or 10 or 12 is not going to be a good decision for people who paid a lot for it and can wait, because it will see play forever in Modern plus a variety of other possible formats.
$15-20 is already half of what Mutavault is going for. I think this drop is reasonable, anything more than that is unlikely - and I'll consider buying a ton of copies if it reaches 10 or something, for the future.
Depends on if Mythic or Rare. If Rare i'd say it will see a slight drop to around 20$ (basing this off of it being 20-25$ when it was in standard before) as it will be an incredibly useful card in the current standard environment, and is clearly a staple in Modern and Merfolk in Legacy. It may not drop at all and may go up in price as the reprints may not meet the demand to put them in their decks. It being in a Core set means that it won't be cracked heavily so it won't be in circulation as much as say a large expansion set. It will decrease at initial print and then slowly increase till post rotation/no more prints and then increase as Modern demand takes over and scarcity begins to kick in again.
Who is everybody and where are they ignoring the main reasons Mutavault is good?
Because they are gonna sink a lot. 10$ tops.
Now w8ing for cashseize on m14 or theros.
I want mah copies for Modern.
Reveillark
Vendilion Clique
Murmuring Bosk
Chameleon Colossus
I love how we forget the recent past oh so quickly and completely dismiss part of evidence to force our point across.
Make no mistake about it, I am buying many, many copies of the card if it ever reaches $12 or lower. It will take time for it to recover to north of $20, but it may never reach its current peak of $30-40, which is why I advocate a sell signal..
Nor it will hit the 8-10 low that ppl are speculating on, which is exactly my point. This will be a $15-25 card for the next year and a half.
I mentioned Clique, Bosk was one of those "up in the air" cards that only a few decks needed, but yeah, I will give you the other two. I actually forgot about Colossus, considering it is now a $2-3 card.
That said, look at the main cast of rares from the set. A number of them lack casual and competitive appeal and are doomed to a dollar bin. You cannot say the same about Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, and Eventide, which has very few junk rares between them.
Not many are speculating this low, and I do not let this deter my viewpoint. Nor do I expect many people to listen to it.
mutavault will be at last a 1 off in many T2 decks. controll will use it as 2 or 3 in maindeck
Mutavault + Ætherling will be controll finishers for sure
people are really underestimating Mutavault right now
even if stock go up demand will also go up:nod:
Morningtide was praised as the best set of the block when it was Standard-legal. It has the most fantastic cards, proportionally. Lorwyn had the 5 commands and the 5 walkers, but not much else in the rare department except the tribal duals and a few other things I may be forgetting (it was excellent for commons and uncommons, though).
Shadowmoor is the same: the uncommons were the hotness: Flame Javelin, Ram-Gang, Finks, Redcap, etc, etc. And the 5 filterlands. Eventide was just horrible, Figure of Destiny + Demigod + 5 filters and not much else.
(I'm talking about Standard here btw, before evidence of a million EDH staples arises or something similar)
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
I will not chastise you because you failed to mention that Demigod was Shadowmoor, not Eventide--honest mistake. Your point is well-made.
I should clarify that I am speaking on a market standpoint. Morningtide's cards were either competitive viable or junk, with few truly desirable casual cards at rare...not to mention many good C/UC in Standard. Lorwyn not only had hard-hitting competitive cards, but a lot of its utility was used in casual circles. Ditto Shadowmoor. And Eventide was opened in such low amounts that junk rares pretty much do not exist.
Control decks can not afford to run that many colorless land that are very inefficient at winning the game. A 2/2 just isn't good enough. And having your Mutavault A. Charmed in the mirror would have to be just the worst feeling ever. Drownyard won the game relatively quickly while also allowing you to not tap out and not expose your land to removal. This is not a control deck card.
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1. Mutavault will not come close to play in every deck.
2. What rares and not mythics topped $20? Hint: The answer is not plenty.
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You may be surprised. It's a land that is pure upside as long as you aren't worried about color intensive spells. It will probably see very heavy play.
It will fall a lot
I guess it's a good thing we're not in a multi colored block then. /sarcasm
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Really, you expect a price drop of just 5 bucks? Because mutavault currently sells for 25 in some places. Mutavault isn't snapcaster mage level good and this is a reprint. I expect it to be under 15 with ease, probably under 10. If it was a mythic sure but WotC won't put this land at mythic. It has no flavor significance like eye of ugin and maze's end.
Excited to be picking up cheap playsets of ooze and mutavault though. If thoughtseize is in, this will probably be the best core set ever outside of alpha/beta.
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