Section 2.10 of the tournament rules has been updated to clarify what happens when someone opens The Nuts and wants to drop rather than pass a booster or swap sealed pools. (You own the cards currently in your possession.) Additionally, if you drop before r1, you are now considered to have not participated in the tournament, rather than receiving a r1 match less.
Quote from "MTR 2.10" »
2.10 Dropping from a Tournament
Players may drop from a tournament at any time. If a player drops from a tournament before the first round has started, he or she is considered to have not participated in the tournament and will not be listed in the finish order nor receive participation Planeswalker Points. Players choosing to drop from a tournament must inform the Scorekeeper by the means provided for that tournament before the pairings for the next round are generated. Players wanting to drop after the Scorekeeper begins pairing for the next round will be paired for that round. If a player does not show up for his or her match, he or she will be automatically dropped from the tournament unless they report to the Scorekeeper. Players that repeatedly and/or intentionally drop from tournaments without informing the scorekeepers of those events may be the subject of DCI penalties up to and including suspension.
Players who drop during limited events own the cards that they correctly have in their possession at that time. This includes any unopened or partially drafted boosters.If a player drops from a tournament after a cut has been made, such as a cut to the top 8 in a Magic Pro Tour Qualifier, no other player is advanced as a replacement. That player’s opponent receives a bye for the round. A cut is considered to have been made once the cut itself or pairings for the round following the cut have been posted or announced.
Players who have dropped may reenter a tournament at the discretion of the Head Judge. Players may not reenter a portion of the tournament that requires a deck they did not draft or build. Players may not reenter a tournament after any cut has been made.
Players may not drop from a tournament in exchange for or influenced by the offer of any reward or incentive. Doing so will be considered Bribery (see section 5.2).
Section 2.10 of the tournament rules has been updated to clarify what happens when someone opens The Nuts and wants to drop rather than pass a booster or swap sealed pools. (You own the cards currently in your possession.) Additionally, if you drop before r1, you are now considered to have not participated in the tournament, rather than receiving a r1 match less.
I'm glad to see the clarification in the tournament rules.
Does a shop that mandates the players turn in and redraft the rares as the tournament prize system for a booster draft violate these rules?
You own the cards currently in your possession implies that you could rare draft and drop after the final round to keep your picks.
Could a store ban someone for doing as such?
Well, I don't think there's any "mandate" that exists in the rules in regard to redrafting rares. As an aside, I think it's a terrible practice because it only helps ringers and FNM sharks to take cool cards away from casual players. If you leave with your rares in a situation like that, you haven't broken any rules according to the DCI but your local shop is a business and they can ban you if they want to do it.
I dont think a store needs a reason to ban someone.
The good ole right to refuse service to anyone. Now would a store ban someone for dropping because they got the stone cold nuts? Who knows, but it isn't a store I would want to go to. Just sell the guy a replacement pack to use in the draft and move on with the tournament.
Does a shop that mandates the players turn in and redraft the rares as the tournament prize system for a booster draft violate these rules?
Redrafting isn't condoned by WoTC so that would have to be something the store sets forth and has players sign a document saying they are not going by sanctioned WoTC rules and are instead playing in a non-sanctioned event under a different set of rules. Otherwise if you tried to stop the person from leaving or what not that would be false imprisonment which is a completely different issue.
Well, I don't think there's any "mandate" that exists in the rules in regard to redrafting rares. As an aside, I think it's a terrible practice because it only helps ringers and FNM sharks to take cool cards away from casual players. If you leave with your rares in a situation like that, you haven't broken any rules according to the DCI but your local shop is a business and they can ban you if they want to do it.
It's a nice practice because (at least when ethical people do it) it costs less. If you're only interested in playing limited, knocking $3-5 off the price of a draft is quite appreciated.
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Good thing they cleared that up. Got sick of hearing debates all the time of course it would have been nice if they clarified that rule before modern masters/the nuts.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
"This pack doesn't have a bomb rare in it, sell me another one."
Yeah, pretty much.
Also, if they want to be greedy and drop because they got a good rare, fine, but there's no way I'd stand for someone just keeping their $100 bill and picking up a new pack to continue the draft with.
It means that in a sealed tournament where you are going to have to pass your product, if you drop, its not 100% that you will be able to rejoin the tournament, because one could make the argument that they just need a new sealed pool. Instead they left it opened ended for the tournament organizer/head judge to make a call if they can reenter the tournament.
One interesting thing that happened in the recent Las Vegas Grand Prix was they had one person open the pool, a different person check the list, and a different from both keep the sealed pool. In that case its possible the 2nd person could keep the sealed pool and drop I guess because currently they are the person in possession of the cards.
Also, if they want to be greedy and drop because they got a good rare, fine, but there's no way I'd stand for someone just keeping their $100 bill and picking up a new pack to continue the draft with.
Well that happens quite often actual, depending on how your FNM runes drafts and the like.
Sometimes you just draft, pick rares as "prices" after the draft is over.
Most are fine with that.
However, with a set like modern masters, even with "jace" back in zendikar, you open it and you just keep it, buy another booster ; Or what happened aswell, you let the player keep the card guaranteed and continue playing without prices (so no rare first pick for them), as the player would "otherwise" simply drop out.
Its a logical thing for someone that badly wants to keep the card.
And such a thing really only happens for quite expensive cards, just a random shockland ? Cmon, nobody pulls this and drops, that would be silly.
Redrafting isn't condoned by WoTC so that would have to be something the store sets forth and has players sign a document saying they are not going by sanctioned WoTC rules and are instead playing in a non-sanctioned event under a different set of rules.
Nothing in the MTR prevents a sanctioned event from doing rare redrafting. There's just no penalty from the DCI if someone decides they don't want to play along.
This is a fast way for a store to lose sanctioning privileges. Adding additional packs into a draft is verboten.
It would be replacing a pack, though, not adding one. The MTR gives the HJ/TO the authority to replace "abnormal" packs, and the discretion to decide what exactly abnormal means.
Given 'the rares are the prizes' drafts are very common, the DCI should make an explicit policy on the practice.
This present statement has real issues that basically mean 'the rares are the prizes' drafts are unappealing to sanction, as if the draft is sanctioned, walking off with a $50 card you open can't be considered theft. If it isn't sanctioned, it pretty clearly is theft.
While noone is going to take a dispute like that to the police, just the perception that something is or isn't theft affects the number of people that will do it.
Even if the DCI makes a clear statement "You cannot sanction a 'the rares are the prizes' draft, this would at least give some clarity over the issue.
Players who drop during limited events own the cards that they correctly have in their possession at that time.
Correctly? What does that even mean?
You can't drop in the middle of cutting your opponent's deck and own their cards.
You can't take a look at your friend's deck at an fnm to give them advice, drop, and own their cards.
You can't steal someone's cards, drop, and have the dci say you own them.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure how it applies to cutting. You do correctly possess those cards at that time. I'm sure they don't intend to sanction stealing your opponent's cards while cutting, but that's a question for a judge.
It would be replacing a pack, though, not adding one. The MTR gives the HJ/TO the authority to replace "abnormal" packs, and the discretion to decide what exactly abnormal means.
Good luck with that one. Trust me, it'll go very badly for any store allowing buyout packs.
Given 'the rares are the prizes' drafts are very common, the DCI should make an explicit policy on the practice.
This present statement has real issues that basically mean 'the rares are the prizes' drafts are unappealing to sanction, as if the draft is sanctioned, walking off with a $50 card you open can't be considered theft. If it isn't sanctioned, it pretty clearly is theft.
While noone is going to take a dispute like that to the police, just the perception that something is or isn't theft affects the number of people that will do it.
Even if the DCI makes a clear statement "You cannot sanction a 'the rares are the prizes' draft, this would at least give some clarity over the issue.
There is a clear statement. The draft is sanctionable, but the DCI will not be enforcing it. Do it with people you trust, or don't invite them back.
They kinda ruined a card from a deck I've been playing for like 12 years with that change to sabretooth cobra... non-functional change my butt. I realize that one individual card is not going to bother but maybe me and 1 other person ever but... It's like it says they don't understand the ramifications that changes have on the game, and are just going to change things willy nilly. In what way does that change, which as it was makes my opponent pay before his turn starts, to being able to pay after his turn starts, not make it a functional change?
Current guy running the rules - clueless imo. I have no faith in his ability to oversee the rules properly.
oh wait you guys are arguing one narrow area of the rules changes. oh well... this may still be relevant, because they didn't think this change through either.
In what way does that change, which as it was makes my opponent pay before his turn starts, to being able to pay after his turn starts, not make it a functional change?
You should really take this to the rules subforum, but there's no change here. They have to pay 2 *before* their next upkeep step, and there's no opportunity to do so, since you can't take actions during untap.
Calling the rules manager clueless is pretty funny, though.
They kinda ruined a card from a deck I've been playing for like 12 years with that change to sabretooth cobra... non-functional change my butt. I realize that one individual card is not going to bother but maybe me and 1 other person ever but... It's like it says they don't understand the ramifications that changes have on the game, and are just going to change things willy nilly. In what way does that change, which as it was makes my opponent pay before his turn starts, to being able to pay after his turn starts, not make it a functional change?
Current guy running the rules - clueless imo. I have no faith in his ability to oversee the rules properly.
oh wait you guys are arguing one narrow area of the rules changes. oh well... this may still be relevant, because they didn't think this change through either.
They aligned the Oracle text to more clearly match the rules text. You do not understand the turn structure if you believe that this is a functional change. That said, Matt Tabak has a Tumblr--you're welcome to tell him how clueless you think he is.
New IPG: http://www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=Magic_The_Gathering_Infraction_Procedure_Guide
New Tournament Rules: http://www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules
Section 2.10 of the tournament rules has been updated to clarify what happens when someone opens The Nuts and wants to drop rather than pass a booster or swap sealed pools. (You own the cards currently in your possession.) Additionally, if you drop before r1, you are now considered to have not participated in the tournament, rather than receiving a r1 match less.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
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I'm glad to see the clarification in the tournament rules.
You own the cards currently in your possession implies that you could rare draft and drop after the final round to keep your picks.
Could a store ban someone for doing as such?
I dont think a store needs a reason to ban someone.
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Well, I don't think there's any "mandate" that exists in the rules in regard to redrafting rares. As an aside, I think it's a terrible practice because it only helps ringers and FNM sharks to take cool cards away from casual players. If you leave with your rares in a situation like that, you haven't broken any rules according to the DCI but your local shop is a business and they can ban you if they want to do it.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
The good ole right to refuse service to anyone. Now would a store ban someone for dropping because they got the stone cold nuts? Who knows, but it isn't a store I would want to go to. Just sell the guy a replacement pack to use in the draft and move on with the tournament.
Redrafting isn't condoned by WoTC so that would have to be something the store sets forth and has players sign a document saying they are not going by sanctioned WoTC rules and are instead playing in a non-sanctioned event under a different set of rules. Otherwise if you tried to stop the person from leaving or what not that would be false imprisonment which is a completely different issue.
It's a nice practice because (at least when ethical people do it) it costs less. If you're only interested in playing limited, knocking $3-5 off the price of a draft is quite appreciated.
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"This pack doesn't have a bomb rare in it, sell me another one."
Yeah, pretty much.
Also, if they want to be greedy and drop because they got a good rare, fine, but there's no way I'd stand for someone just keeping their $100 bill and picking up a new pack to continue the draft with.
How does that work?
It means that in a sealed tournament where you are going to have to pass your product, if you drop, its not 100% that you will be able to rejoin the tournament, because one could make the argument that they just need a new sealed pool. Instead they left it opened ended for the tournament organizer/head judge to make a call if they can reenter the tournament.
One interesting thing that happened in the recent Las Vegas Grand Prix was they had one person open the pool, a different person check the list, and a different from both keep the sealed pool. In that case its possible the 2nd person could keep the sealed pool and drop I guess because currently they are the person in possession of the cards.
Well that happens quite often actual, depending on how your FNM runes drafts and the like.
Sometimes you just draft, pick rares as "prices" after the draft is over.
Most are fine with that.
However, with a set like modern masters, even with "jace" back in zendikar, you open it and you just keep it, buy another booster ; Or what happened aswell, you let the player keep the card guaranteed and continue playing without prices (so no rare first pick for them), as the player would "otherwise" simply drop out.
Its a logical thing for someone that badly wants to keep the card.
And such a thing really only happens for quite expensive cards, just a random shockland ? Cmon, nobody pulls this and drops, that would be silly.
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This is a fast way for a store to lose sanctioning privileges. Adding additional packs into a draft is verboten.
Nothing in the MTR prevents a sanctioned event from doing rare redrafting. There's just no penalty from the DCI if someone decides they don't want to play along.
It would be replacing a pack, though, not adding one. The MTR gives the HJ/TO the authority to replace "abnormal" packs, and the discretion to decide what exactly abnormal means.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
This present statement has real issues that basically mean 'the rares are the prizes' drafts are unappealing to sanction, as if the draft is sanctioned, walking off with a $50 card you open can't be considered theft. If it isn't sanctioned, it pretty clearly is theft.
While noone is going to take a dispute like that to the police, just the perception that something is or isn't theft affects the number of people that will do it.
Even if the DCI makes a clear statement "You cannot sanction a 'the rares are the prizes' draft, this would at least give some clarity over the issue.
Correctly? What does that even mean?
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
You can't drop in the middle of cutting your opponent's deck and own their cards.
You can't take a look at your friend's deck at an fnm to give them advice, drop, and own their cards.
You can't steal someone's cards, drop, and have the dci say you own them.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure how it applies to cutting. You do correctly possess those cards at that time. I'm sure they don't intend to sanction stealing your opponent's cards while cutting, but that's a question for a judge.
Good luck with that one. Trust me, it'll go very badly for any store allowing buyout packs.
There is a clear statement. The draft is sanctionable, but the DCI will not be enforcing it. Do it with people you trust, or don't invite them back.
It means you can drop with the pack you're currently holding. You can't grab the next pack that's waiting for you and walk off with that one as well.
I'm not sure I would count on this stopping the debate, but yes...it is nice to have some solid unimpeachable backup.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
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PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Current guy running the rules - clueless imo. I have no faith in his ability to oversee the rules properly.
oh wait you guys are arguing one narrow area of the rules changes. oh well... this may still be relevant, because they didn't think this change through either.
You should really take this to the rules subforum, but there's no change here. They have to pay 2 *before* their next upkeep step, and there's no opportunity to do so, since you can't take actions during untap.
Calling the rules manager clueless is pretty funny, though.
They aligned the Oracle text to more clearly match the rules text. You do not understand the turn structure if you believe that this is a functional change. That said, Matt Tabak has a Tumblr--you're welcome to tell him how clueless you think he is.
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