So you expected something like Jitte? I mean Intro packs are always like this. They are for new players, so dunno what you are complaing about.
Honor of the Pure, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, Zealous Conscripts, Malakir Bloodwitch.... There are good cards in Intro packs, it's just that wizards rarely allows them to be good. Chandra's Phoenix is good, but the decklist is Jank. There is a total f what, 4 ways to put the Phoenix back into your hand.
I don't get why everyone thinks casual players don't want to play good cards. Biggest misunderstanding of the fanbase.
but they feel like a big downgrade from M13 and Innstrad and RTR blocks ones
Talrand and Neferox intro packs were really good. The innstrad block had a history of constructed playable cards in them. RTR blocks ones weren't really that bad the rares were often quite good and at least build around.
the second rare in all except the B/R one is blegh clone, shivian dragon unexciting, I forgot the rare in the white and green ones probably because they aren't interesting.
I was kind of looking forward to the Chandra's phoenix one since I really like the card. Needed a couple young pyromancer it is an uncommon and a few more burn spells. It is fairly easy to think up decks with the same proportions of commons/uncommon and build a better deck.
It boggles my mind how these keep getting made. Who the flippin' hell buys these in large numbers that this is a good idea for Wizards? Ugh. I don't even feel like giving these to a friend to start playing Magic.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
They should have brought back the theme decks and the 2 player starter set. Even so, when they have to change theme decks into intro packs, only the core set theme deck should have been affected, not the theme decks of every set.
What they should have done was made the rules sheet better. Give new guy A and new guy B intro packs, and let them at it. They wouldn't know what to do unless the intro packs actually sucked or the rules sheet was more detailed.
There is also DOTP. THAT should have been the newbie thing. Release the Deck Builder's Toolkit earlier than the main set would be, such as, around the release of the DOTP game, and include a voucher, or include some DOTP code that lets you buy the game for free or something.
I missed the days where I had to figure out how to use a precon, but since this is a core set, the intro pack does have an excuse to suck. Compare this to 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th edition theme decks, and M10, M11, M12, M13 intro packs.
I just hope that the Theros intro packs doesn't suck like these ones. Block expansion intro packs have no excuse to suck.
There is one thing they should have done with intro packs. Make them playable in DOTP. At least the intro packs should unlock the exact deck as a base, and include some unlockables from other set that fits the theme. Another thing is, when they revealed the decklists, why isn't there the strategy for them? Maybe that is why I have this "this is a piece of junk" vibe. I have no clue what the strategies for each deck are.
There is one thing I do like. The fact that it was 2 color. I found that from playing tons of theme decks and intro packs, the mono-color ones are very boring unless they have an interesting theme to it, or a very interesting mechanic to it. The mono color theme decks from 7th edition, 8th edition, 9th edition were so boring to use, that making the same quality of deck, with one extra color shoved in, such as the M14 decks, made them feel less boring. Also the fact that there is 60 cards in core set precons now, compared to 40.
In short, I like the intro packs' difficulty to be "Hey, not to rough", but I have a feeling that these ones feel like "I'm too young to die".
I don't normally rant (or post more than a sentence at a time), but this is just terrible...
I actually wonder if they just have cats decide on which creatures to put into the deck and weasels to determine which non-creature spells to include. These decks are lacking cards that should be obvious on a very fundamental level... (especially by someone PAID to design the decks)
UR Fire Surge
-Really, no Shocks? I'd have put at least 3 in there... It's the simplest, easiest to use burn in M14.
- No Archeomancer in a U/R deck? There are what... 13 cards it can get back?
- Are the Condors necessary? They can only help the Giants, Firecats and Goblins (and the goblins have a built in turn of evasiveness). No room for Young Pyromancer?
- 2 Fleshpulper Giants? There's no ramp... At most 1 should be in the deck.
BG Bestial Strength
- One Elvish Mystic? Zero Verdant Haven? Other than the hit or miss rare enchantment, that's one single ramp card. Way to showcase a core green capability...
- It's a two color deck and no Manaweft Sliver? You can show new players the benefit of ramp and mana fixing all in an uncommon... Or ignore that chance and put in more 4 drops.
- 2 Woodborn Behemoths??? The deck has no land Ramp... Rare enchantment aside, you'll be a minimum turn 8 before this guy comes online, though with 26 lands, you have HUGE chance to hit your land drops.
BR Death Reaper
- The deck has 6 sac outlets, but only 2 Tenacious Dead to recur, and one Act of Treason. Vile rebirth could have been added to give interactions with all the sac effects, but hey, if you're not even going to put Doomblade in the Black showcase intro pack, why bother?
- Molten Birth, Dragon Egg, Pitchburn Devils, Young Pyromancer... All red cards that add more fuel for sac outlets...
UW Psychic Labyrinth
- You have 2 Wardens of Evos Isle, yet have 6 flying creatures. You could have easily made the theme 'Evasive Creatures'.
- White has Griffins and Serra Angel and even wall of Swords, but no flying white creatures are in the deck.
- The Blue showcase deck has zero counterspells.
- Zephyr Charge could have at least given the non-flyers some evasion. Helps the Scroll Thieves as well.
WG Lightforce
- No Blessing?
- Divine Favor fulfills the 2 things the decks wants to do: gain life and play enchantments... But we only get one in the deck.
- The deck just seems bland, even compared to the other ones. Master of Diversions would probably work better here than in the UW deck because the creatures are less evasive.
- Why is green in the deck? Seems like it was added as an excuse to get Trollhide. Lay of the Land would help mana fixing. Hunt the Weak seems out of place, as the creature strength isn't high in the deck. Why can't we get Giant Spiders instead of the Ox? Same CC and P/T, but one has reach. It could be a meta decision to show players that you don't always get what you want.
- Gladecover scout has Hexproof... The best friend of auras. Oh wait, instead we have 3 vanilla Oxen (Oxes?)
- Verdant Haven => Enchantment? Check. Lifegain? Check. Mana fixing in a 2 color deck? Check. Mana ramp? Check. So... Why isn't it in there?
If I can spot all these (what I consider, anyways) holes in the deck design, why can't someone in quality control? Even when making the decks stronger, it's still just core set precons, so they'll only reach a certain level of power. It seems like all the decks missed out on showcasing what the colors do best. No one expects Event Deck level power, but there should be some minimum of effort put in to make the decks more feasible.
If you are like me you take more of a look at which cards are in this and whether or not they help explain to new players how magic works and the intricacies of each specific color. I end up buying at least two intro packs every core set that I think have the most fundamental aspects of magic to help teach new players, which is what these are meant for.
If you posted in here complaining that intro packs didn't have some chase rare you wanted then that is a GOOD thing
imagine if M13 green intropack had a Thragtusk in it. Vets would buy up all those packs, newbies would never get a chance to play them = fewer new magic players.
I don't normally rant (or post more than a sentence at a time), but this is just terrible...
I actually wonder if they just have cats decide on which creatures to put into the deck and weasels to determine which non-creature spells to include. These decks are lacking cards that should be obvious on a very fundamental level... (especially by someone PAID to design the decks)
UR Fire Surge
-Really, no Shocks? I'd have put at least 3 in there... It's the simplest, easiest to use burn in M14.
- No Archeomancer in a U/R deck? There are what... 13 cards it can get back?
- Are the Condors necessary? They can help the Giants, Firecats and Goblins (and the goblins have a built in turn of evasiveness). No room for Young Pyromancer?
- 2 Fleshpulper Giants? There's no ramp... At most 1 should be in the deck.
BG Bestial Strength
- One Elvish Mystic? Zero Verdant Haven? Other than the hit or miss rare enchantment, that's one single ramp card. Way to showcase a core green capability...
- It's a two color deck and no Manaweft Sliver? You can show new players the benefit of ramp and mana fixing all in an uncommon... Or ignore that chance and put in more 4 drops.
- 2 Woodborn Behemoths??? The deck has no land Ramp... Rare enchantment aside, you'll be a minimum turn 8 before this guy comes online, though with 26 lands, you have HUGE chance to hit your land drops.
BR Death Reaper
- The deck has 6 sac outlets, but only 2 Tenacious Dead to recur, and one Act of Treason. Vile rebirth could have been added to give interactions with all the sac effects, but hey, if you're even going to put Doomblade in the Black showcase intro pack, why bother?
- Molten Birth, Dragon Egg, Pitchburn Devils, Young Pyromancer... All red cards that add more fuel for sac outlets...
UW Psychic Labyrinth
- You have 2 Wardens of Evos Isle, yet have 6 flying creatures. You could have easily made the theme 'Evasive Creatures'.
- White has Griffins and Serra Angel and even wall of Swords, but no flying white creatures are in the deck.
- The Blue showcase deck has zero counterspells.
- Zephyr Charge could have at least given the non-flyers some evasion. Helps the Scroll Thieves as well.
WG Lightforce
- No Blessing?
- Divine Favor fulfills the 2 things the decks wants to do: gain life and play enchantments... But we only get one in the deck.
- The deck just seems bland, even compared to the other ones. Master of Diversions would probably work better here than in the UW deck because the creatures are less evasive.
- Why is green in the deck? Seems like it was added as an excuse to get Trollhide. Lay of the Land would help mana fixing. Hunt the Weak seems out of place, as the creature strength isn't high in the deck. Why can't we get Giant Spiders instead of the Ox? Same CC and P/T, but one has reach. It could be a meta decision to show players that you don't always get what you want.
- Gladecover scout has Hexproof... The best friend of auras. Oh wait, instead we have 3 vanilla Oxen (Oxes?)
- Verdant Haven => Enchantment? Check. Lifegain? Check. Mana fixing in a 2 color deck? Check. Mana ramp? Check. So... Why isn't it in there?
If I can spot all these (what I consider, anyways) holes in the deck design, why can't someone in quality control? Even when making the decks stronger, it's still just core set precons, so they'll only reach a certain level power. It seems like all the decks missed on showcasing what the colors do best. No one expects Event Deck level power, but there should be some minimum of effort put in to make the decks more feasible.
The rares don't have to be ultra competitive. But the deck itself should at least play to the strengths of the colors it represents.
Whereas these don't. They don't do anything. It's like they turned all the cards for these decks face down and just said "Okay, we'll take 10 from here and 5 from this part and 10 more over here and 5 here...", and then shoveled them into a deck without caring about what the colors are good at.
Wizards could just look at the Standard deck lists in the Budget section of this place and they'd find plenty of decks that are cheaper to build and better than anything that they've presented us with.
These decks don't suck because of weak cards are poor value for money. They are bad because half the decks are badly designed, more so than usual. I'd almost like to see the inset on a few to see what sort of strategy they advise new players to use.
Personally I think they got lazy this time round and through together random pairings of cards. Even the UW deck built around Jace's Mindseeker comes down to tap with creatures. I'd be more forgiving if it looked as though they wanted dedicated flyers deck or some sort Dismiss into Dream deck with lots of weak target effects. Really half hearted this time
I actually like intro packs most of the time. Buy one almost every set!
But, these are just not...interesting. I noticed that most of my intro packs are actually from coresets apparently! So, yeah, I even like coreset intro packs. The ones from 2013 were fun (foil legends REALLY helped) and 2012 had awesome intro packs too (seriously, a SPIDER deck!)
I feel like I wanna just blame it on 2014, for it's...ummm, lack of excitingness? Too many cards going UP in rarity, like at least 5 right?? Something like that? It DOES feel dumbed down. I don't say that about stuff in Magic, not even coresets. Oh well.
So you expected something like Jitte? I mean Intro packs are always like this. They are for new players, so dunno what you are complaing about.
Jitte was included in one of the Betrayers of Kamigawa intro decks, right?
Rat's Nest
# Rarity Cost Card Name
24 Swamp*
1 U Black Mana Nezumi Shadow-Watcher
2 U 1 Mana Black Mana Nezumi Bone-Reader*
3 C 1 Mana Black Mana Nezumi Cutthroat*
1 U 1 Mana Black Mana Nezumi Graverobber*
4 C 1 Mana Black Mana Skullsnatcher
4 C 2 Mana Black Mana Nezumi Ronin*
2 U 3 Mana Black Mana Numai Outcast*
2 U 4 Mana Black Mana Throat Slitter
1 C 3 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 R 5 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Patron of the Nezumi
1 U Black Mana Genju of the Fens
1 C Black Mana Psychic Spear
1 C 1 Mana Black Mana Midnight Covenant*
1 C 1 Mana Black Mana Ragged Veins*
1 C 2 Mana Black Mana Rend Flesh*
2 C 1 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Horobi’s Whisper
2 C 2 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Befoul*
1 U 3 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Dance of Shadows*
2 U 3 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Three Tragedies
1 C X Mana Black Mana Stir the Grave
1 U 1 Mana Shuko
1 R 2 Mana Umezawa’s Jitte
These are really poorly designed intro packs in my opinion. I don't generally buy intro packs, but I usually take a look at the lists when they come out (and I did the Intro pack challenge thing for M13 and RtR prereleases), and these seem particularly bad. I feel like the themes in the decks are really underdeveloped, and there is a very strong lack of synergy as Spike_Fightwicky pointed out.
I'm not saying intro packs should have a lot of financial value or be super competitive, but make them interesting and fun to play. Maybe put them more on par with the DOTP deck level (pre-unlocks, and obviously with less rares).
This is really a shame, as I felt the M13 intro packs were really good for what they were. I cracked the Neferox one, and between my buddies I saw the Talarand, Yeva, and Odric ones in action and I felt they were really solid for what they were. I was hoping WOTC would keep that trend up.
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Honor of the Pure, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, Zealous Conscripts, Malakir Bloodwitch.... There are good cards in Intro packs, it's just that wizards rarely allows them to be good. Chandra's Phoenix is good, but the decklist is Jank. There is a total f what, 4 ways to put the Phoenix back into your hand.
I don't get why everyone thinks casual players don't want to play good cards. Biggest misunderstanding of the fanbase.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
but they feel like a big downgrade from M13 and Innstrad and RTR blocks ones
Talrand and Neferox intro packs were really good. The innstrad block had a history of constructed playable cards in them. RTR blocks ones weren't really that bad the rares were often quite good and at least build around.
the second rare in all except the B/R one is blegh clone, shivian dragon unexciting, I forgot the rare in the white and green ones probably because they aren't interesting.
I was kind of looking forward to the Chandra's phoenix one since I really like the card. Needed a couple young pyromancer it is an uncommon and a few more burn spells. It is fairly easy to think up decks with the same proportions of commons/uncommon and build a better deck.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
They included the whole lifegain staff cycle.
WG Lightforce
Staff of the Sun Magus
UW Psychic Labyrinth
Staff of the Mind Magus
BR Death Reaper
Staff of the Death Magus
RU Fire Surge
Staff of the Flame Magus
GB Bestial Strength
Staff of the Wild Magus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
What they should have done was made the rules sheet better. Give new guy A and new guy B intro packs, and let them at it. They wouldn't know what to do unless the intro packs actually sucked or the rules sheet was more detailed.
There is also DOTP. THAT should have been the newbie thing. Release the Deck Builder's Toolkit earlier than the main set would be, such as, around the release of the DOTP game, and include a voucher, or include some DOTP code that lets you buy the game for free or something.
I missed the days where I had to figure out how to use a precon, but since this is a core set, the intro pack does have an excuse to suck. Compare this to 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th edition theme decks, and M10, M11, M12, M13 intro packs.
I just hope that the Theros intro packs doesn't suck like these ones. Block expansion intro packs have no excuse to suck.
There is one thing they should have done with intro packs. Make them playable in DOTP. At least the intro packs should unlock the exact deck as a base, and include some unlockables from other set that fits the theme. Another thing is, when they revealed the decklists, why isn't there the strategy for them? Maybe that is why I have this "this is a piece of junk" vibe. I have no clue what the strategies for each deck are.
There is one thing I do like. The fact that it was 2 color. I found that from playing tons of theme decks and intro packs, the mono-color ones are very boring unless they have an interesting theme to it, or a very interesting mechanic to it. The mono color theme decks from 7th edition, 8th edition, 9th edition were so boring to use, that making the same quality of deck, with one extra color shoved in, such as the M14 decks, made them feel less boring. Also the fact that there is 60 cards in core set precons now, compared to 40.
In short, I like the intro packs' difficulty to be "Hey, not to rough", but I have a feeling that these ones feel like "I'm too young to die".
I actually wonder if they just have cats decide on which creatures to put into the deck and weasels to determine which non-creature spells to include. These decks are lacking cards that should be obvious on a very fundamental level... (especially by someone PAID to design the decks)
UR Fire Surge
-Really, no Shocks? I'd have put at least 3 in there... It's the simplest, easiest to use burn in M14.
- No Archeomancer in a U/R deck? There are what... 13 cards it can get back?
- Are the Condors necessary? They can only help the Giants, Firecats and Goblins (and the goblins have a built in turn of evasiveness). No room for Young Pyromancer?
- 2 Fleshpulper Giants? There's no ramp... At most 1 should be in the deck.
BG Bestial Strength
- One Elvish Mystic? Zero Verdant Haven? Other than the hit or miss rare enchantment, that's one single ramp card. Way to showcase a core green capability...
- It's a two color deck and no Manaweft Sliver? You can show new players the benefit of ramp and mana fixing all in an uncommon... Or ignore that chance and put in more 4 drops.
- 2 Woodborn Behemoths??? The deck has no land Ramp... Rare enchantment aside, you'll be a minimum turn 8 before this guy comes online, though with 26 lands, you have HUGE chance to hit your land drops.
BR Death Reaper
- The deck has 6 sac outlets, but only 2 Tenacious Dead to recur, and one Act of Treason. Vile rebirth could have been added to give interactions with all the sac effects, but hey, if you're not even going to put Doomblade in the Black showcase intro pack, why bother?
- Molten Birth, Dragon Egg, Pitchburn Devils, Young Pyromancer... All red cards that add more fuel for sac outlets...
UW Psychic Labyrinth
- You have 2 Wardens of Evos Isle, yet have 6 flying creatures. You could have easily made the theme 'Evasive Creatures'.
- White has Griffins and Serra Angel and even wall of Swords, but no flying white creatures are in the deck.
- The Blue showcase deck has zero counterspells.
- Zephyr Charge could have at least given the non-flyers some evasion. Helps the Scroll Thieves as well.
WG Lightforce
- No Blessing?
- Divine Favor fulfills the 2 things the decks wants to do: gain life and play enchantments... But we only get one in the deck.
- The deck just seems bland, even compared to the other ones. Master of Diversions would probably work better here than in the UW deck because the creatures are less evasive.
- Why is green in the deck? Seems like it was added as an excuse to get Trollhide. Lay of the Land would help mana fixing. Hunt the Weak seems out of place, as the creature strength isn't high in the deck. Why can't we get Giant Spiders instead of the Ox? Same CC and P/T, but one has reach. It could be a meta decision to show players that you don't always get what you want.
- Gladecover scout has Hexproof... The best friend of auras. Oh wait, instead we have 3 vanilla Oxen (Oxes?)
- Verdant Haven => Enchantment? Check. Lifegain? Check. Mana fixing in a 2 color deck? Check. Mana ramp? Check. So... Why isn't it in there?
If I can spot all these (what I consider, anyways) holes in the deck design, why can't someone in quality control? Even when making the decks stronger, it's still just core set precons, so they'll only reach a certain level of power. It seems like all the decks missed out on showcasing what the colors do best. No one expects Event Deck level power, but there should be some minimum of effort put in to make the decks more feasible.
Season Magic players complain
If you are like me you take more of a look at which cards are in this and whether or not they help explain to new players how magic works and the intricacies of each specific color. I end up buying at least two intro packs every core set that I think have the most fundamental aspects of magic to help teach new players, which is what these are meant for.
If you posted in here complaining that intro packs didn't have some chase rare you wanted then that is a GOOD thing
imagine if M13 green intropack had a Thragtusk in it. Vets would buy up all those packs, newbies would never get a chance to play them = fewer new magic players.
+1, Quality Post
Whereas these don't. They don't do anything. It's like they turned all the cards for these decks face down and just said "Okay, we'll take 10 from here and 5 from this part and 10 more over here and 5 here...", and then shoveled them into a deck without caring about what the colors are good at.
Wizards could just look at the Standard deck lists in the Budget section of this place and they'd find plenty of decks that are cheaper to build and better than anything that they've presented us with.
Personally I think they got lazy this time round and through together random pairings of cards. Even the UW deck built around Jace's Mindseeker comes down to tap with creatures. I'd be more forgiving if it looked as though they wanted dedicated flyers deck or some sort Dismiss into Dream deck with lots of weak target effects. Really half hearted this time
Archeomancer is not in fire surge because it is in psychic labyrinth deck.
But, these are just not...interesting. I noticed that most of my intro packs are actually from coresets apparently! So, yeah, I even like coreset intro packs. The ones from 2013 were fun (foil legends REALLY helped) and 2012 had awesome intro packs too (seriously, a SPIDER deck!)
I feel like I wanna just blame it on 2014, for it's...ummm, lack of excitingness? Too many cards going UP in rarity, like at least 5 right?? Something like that? It DOES feel dumbed down. I don't say that about stuff in Magic, not even coresets. Oh well.
Jitte was included in one of the Betrayers of Kamigawa intro decks, right?
Rat's Nest
# Rarity Cost Card Name
24 Swamp*
1 U Black Mana Nezumi Shadow-Watcher
2 U 1 Mana Black Mana Nezumi Bone-Reader*
3 C 1 Mana Black Mana Nezumi Cutthroat*
1 U 1 Mana Black Mana Nezumi Graverobber*
4 C 1 Mana Black Mana Skullsnatcher
4 C 2 Mana Black Mana Nezumi Ronin*
2 U 3 Mana Black Mana Numai Outcast*
2 U 4 Mana Black Mana Throat Slitter
1 C 3 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 R 5 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Patron of the Nezumi
1 U Black Mana Genju of the Fens
1 C Black Mana Psychic Spear
1 C 1 Mana Black Mana Midnight Covenant*
1 C 1 Mana Black Mana Ragged Veins*
1 C 2 Mana Black Mana Rend Flesh*
2 C 1 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Horobi’s Whisper
2 C 2 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Befoul*
1 U 3 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Dance of Shadows*
2 U 3 Mana Black Mana Black Mana Three Tragedies
1 C X Mana Black Mana Stir the Grave
1 U 1 Mana Shuko
1 R 2 Mana Umezawa’s Jitte
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Intro packs can have good cards in them
I'm not saying intro packs should have a lot of financial value or be super competitive, but make them interesting and fun to play. Maybe put them more on par with the DOTP deck level (pre-unlocks, and obviously with less rares).
This is really a shame, as I felt the M13 intro packs were really good for what they were. I cracked the Neferox one, and between my buddies I saw the Talarand, Yeva, and Odric ones in action and I felt they were really solid for what they were. I was hoping WOTC would keep that trend up.