You are wrong, "Predator Ooze is indestructible" is an ability while "indestructible" is not.
See rule 112, expecially 112.2c.
Predator Ooze has three abilities, the first is a static ability, the other two are triggered abilities.
Not sure what you're arguing, but the new ruling is Turn to Frog will make Predator Ooze loses its indestructible property and be killed by a gut shot now.
It means no Thoughtseize at common certainly, or uncommon probably. It could still be a rare or (if Wizards really want to show us how greedy they are) mythic.
It can't be mythic because we already know all black mythics.
Not sure what you're arguing, but the new ruling is Turn to Frog will make Predator Ooze loses its indestructible property and be killed by a gut shot now.
What you say works even now. When you turn to frog the ooze it will become a vanilla 1/1. The ability "~ is indestructible" disappears and nothing prevents its destruction.
What will change is if you have, say Elspeth's Emblem (your non-pw permanents have indestructible), your Grizzly Bears will be destroyed by turn to frog + gutshot, something that is not working with the current rules 'cause it cannot lose "indestructible" granted by the emblem as its not an ability.
So now that indestructible is a keyword, my question is this: what will it look like on artifacts? As I said previously in this thread, perhaps that is the sole reason for a Darksteel Forge reprint; to show how indestructible works on a variety of permanents. Honestly I like the old wording of indestructible more because it allows for indestructible permanents and not just creatures. So now the new indestructible only works for creatures and we won't see it on enchantments or artifacts? Only if its really powerful cards like Darksteel Forge? Pretty lame, if that's the case. I miss the old indestructible.
hey, I'm happy when the Standard players get a good card, I'm happy when the EDH players get a new card. But I play Modern, colorless Tron and I am looking forward to abusing the darksteel at a lower price. and consider this. If you play Akroma's Memorial in a creature based deck, the only way the other guy will win is by destroying it, this removes that weakness. I think that combo will interact very well with the new Garruk
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So now that indestructible is a keyword, my question is this: what will it look like on artifacts? As I said previously in this thread, perhaps that is the sole reason for a Darksteel Forge reprint; to show how indestructible works on a variety of permanents. Honestly I like the old wording of indestructible more because it allows for indestructible permanents and not just creatures.
Why ?
All kind of permanents can have key word abilities (see Leonin Abunas and Privileged Position).
I'm not following you, can you elaborate ?
I'm not really argueing any of your points, but that is the problem. They just assumed every card in a standard-legal set is intended for Standard. Making fun of this may not be the most mature thing to do, but I can see where they're coming from. Also, I doubt that these players "weren't aware" of the kitchen table, since none of them are new to Magic. They just don't care about it, apparently. But that's a topic for a different thread.
While not every card is INTENDED for standard, if they print it in a Standard Legal set, they test the implications of the card within Standard as well as its intended format, as one badly thought out reprint can ruin a year's worth of the format.
So now that indestructible is a keyword, my question is this: what will it look like on artifacts? As I said previously in this thread, perhaps that is the sole reason for a Darksteel Forge reprint; to show how indestructible works on a variety of permanents. Honestly I like the old wording of indestructible more because it allows for indestructible permanents and not just creatures. So now the new indestructible only works for creatures and we won't see it on enchantments or artifacts? Only if its really powerful cards like Darksteel Forge? Pretty lame, if that's the case. I miss the old indestructible.
There's no problem givin' "indestructible" to artifacts as a keyword, like:
And Boros Charm is the most recent example of a spell giving indestructible to permanents (not only creatures). And Darksteel Forge works exactly this way: you can't Disenchant a Darksteel Forge now and you won't able to with next rules iteration :>
I've seen people say about getting darksteel at a cheaper price a few times in this thread now. So a $10 card is too expensive? If you are worried about getting it cheaper than that, maybe you aren't playing the right game? I love it when I start putting together a deck and have more $10 cards than $40+ dollar cards.
i kinda cant believe that people just believe this crap. its highly unlikely to get a card like darksteel forge in a coreset. and since this is utter bull...., i dont believe in the rest too.
"a source has given him reprints"
why this 3? and why only these 3 cards. this is even harder to believe, than the source of the thoughtseize reprint.
You clearly have no idea how the Rumor Mill works.
They reprinted Darksteel Colossus in a past Core Set, so why is Darksteel Forge so unbelievable. There are numerous reprints in the past that are less believable than this.
If a source said that they were reprinting Slivers that look nothing like the old Slivers and that only effect your own creatures, no one would have believed them.
As for complaints about the Darksteel Forge in Standard? It's not EDH. You should have the game tied up before this even hits the table. People do realize this only makes artifacts indestructible, right? How many artifacts are played in Standard? Not enough to justify playing this.
And why complain about the Forge over Millstone? When was the last time Millstone was relevant? 1998? They've reprinted World Slayer in a Core Set for crying out loud. Not every card is meant for everyone.
You clearly have no idea how the Rumor Mill works.
They reprinted Darksteel Colossus in a past Core Set, so why is Darksteel Forge so unbelievable. There are numerous reprints in the past that are less believable than this.
If a source said that they were reprinting Slivers that look nothing like the old Slivers and that only effect your own creatures, no one would have believed them.
As for complaints about the Darksteel Forge in Standard? It's not EDH. You should have the game tied up before this even hits the table. People do realize this only makes artifacts indestructible, right? How many artifacts are played in Standard? Not enough to justify playing this.
And why complain about the Forge over Millstone? When was the last time Millstone was relevant? 1998? They've reprinted World Slayer in a Core Set for crying out loud. Not every card is meant for everyone.
People need to pull their heads out.
Well to be honest Worldslayer was cute when combined with Predator Ooze...
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I didn't want to see Darksteel Forge more. At all. I just don't like the card. Personally. It just fathers too many broken combos.
To this I say bluh. If they're reprinting this, they'd better be reprinting some Path to Exile (I know they just did in MM), some Mutilate again (though Quag sickness might suffice) or something like that. Worldfire maybe (kidding~).
If this isn't meant for standard and is a reprint for the sake of reprinting, why wouldn't they just put it in Modern Masters?
I just read the first and last page, but it seems the conversation hasn't veered much. I don't know if anyone said this, but it's possible Darksteel Forge is being printed here specifically because there is no Artifact theme. They may have considered it for Scars of Mirrodin and decided it was too powerful for Standard in an artifact heavy setting. M14 is the first coreset since that doesn't touch Scars at all.
The fact the Darksteel Forge is $10 is enough reason for me to have it reprinted. If I had known they were worth that much I would have sold the 2 I never used a while back.
Seems highly unlikely that this is true unless Theros has a large Artifct theme, which doesn't really fit the flavor very well.
If they do it right it can totally fit the flavor of greek and roman mythology quite well.
By right I mean colored artifacts. Cards that represent the old Titans would be awesome as colored artifacts. Or equipment that represent weapons on the old Gods...
also doesnt anyone else think, that its highly unlikely that we get a card like darksteel forge in a coreset, which is completly useless, since there arent any artefacts or artifact hate around?
Vandal Blast and Hellkite Tyrant would like a word. (And a standard environment where they make sense to be honest... they are feeling kinda out of place and confused).
If they do it right it can totally fit the flavor of greek and roman mythology quite well.
By right I mean colored artifacts. Cards that represent the old Titans would be awesome as colored artifacts. Or equipment that represent weapons on the old Gods...
Not to mention your Golden Fleeces, Golden Apples, and all kinds of other desirable artifacts that Heroes were always questing after.
What did he do? copy someone elses list that already did well in a tournament format only play online then LSV updated upgraded and made the deck actually fairly competitive.
So if you mean we all know that travis took credit for a deck that he didn't create and didn't even make the most succesful version then yes we all know what he did.
Dude is a joke, the super secret bust open brew he did in Living End he lost in a mirror match the first tournament he took it to. SUPER SECRET BREW WOO!
What did he do? copy someone elses list that already did well in a tournament format only play online then LSV updated upgraded and made the deck actually fairly competitive.
So if you mean we all know that travis took credit for a deck that he didn't create and didn't even make the most succesful version then yes we all know what he did.
Dude is a joke, the super secret bust open brew he did in Living End he lost in a mirror match the first tournament he took it to. SUPER SECRET BREW WOO!
Sure, he didn't invent the deck (I believe it was someone named Derek Adams), but he made it famous. Travis gave it a lot of exposure. That's what I meant.
Battle of Wits won you the game, Door won you the game, Akromas could win you the game.
Forge does what exactly? Make your keyrunes/staff of nin/trading post indestructible? Ignoring the nine mana price tag?
I loved previous artifact sets and use to be a very casual yanky player. Even then Darksteel Forge was bad.
Not sure what you're arguing, but the new ruling is Turn to Frog will make Predator Ooze loses its indestructible property and be killed by a gut shot now.
It can't be mythic because we already know all black mythics.
What you say works even now. When you turn to frog the ooze it will become a vanilla 1/1. The ability "~ is indestructible" disappears and nothing prevents its destruction.
What will change is if you have, say Elspeth's Emblem (your non-pw permanents have indestructible), your Grizzly Bears will be destroyed by turn to frog + gutshot, something that is not working with the current rules 'cause it cannot lose "indestructible" granted by the emblem as its not an ability.
Theros theme being.. well you know how treasures and artifacts are in mythos..
It may not have Thoughtseize, but we still have Ooze, Mutavault, 2 new Planeswalkers which are always inflated at release, plus whatever else we see.
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Why ?
All kind of permanents can have key word abilities (see Leonin Abunas and Privileged Position).
I'm not following you, can you elaborate ?
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While not every card is INTENDED for standard, if they print it in a Standard Legal set, they test the implications of the card within Standard as well as its intended format, as one badly thought out reprint can ruin a year's worth of the format.
There's no problem givin' "indestructible" to artifacts as a keyword, like:
Cool Artifact - 0
Artifact
Indestructible
T: Cool ability
And Boros Charm is the most recent example of a spell giving indestructible to permanents (not only creatures). And Darksteel Forge works exactly this way: you can't Disenchant a Darksteel Forge now and you won't able to with next rules iteration :>
You clearly have no idea how the Rumor Mill works.
They reprinted Darksteel Colossus in a past Core Set, so why is Darksteel Forge so unbelievable. There are numerous reprints in the past that are less believable than this.
If a source said that they were reprinting Slivers that look nothing like the old Slivers and that only effect your own creatures, no one would have believed them.
As for complaints about the Darksteel Forge in Standard? It's not EDH. You should have the game tied up before this even hits the table. People do realize this only makes artifacts indestructible, right? How many artifacts are played in Standard? Not enough to justify playing this.
And why complain about the Forge over Millstone? When was the last time Millstone was relevant? 1998? They've reprinted World Slayer in a Core Set for crying out loud. Not every card is meant for everyone.
People need to pull their heads out.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Well to be honest Worldslayer was cute when combined with Predator Ooze...
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
To this I say bluh. If they're reprinting this, they'd better be reprinting some Path to Exile (I know they just did in MM), some Mutilate again (though Quag sickness might suffice) or something like that. Worldfire maybe (kidding~).
If this isn't meant for standard and is a reprint for the sake of reprinting, why wouldn't they just put it in Modern Masters?
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Still waiting on "Mill" to be keyworded.
Because we care about facts.
If they do it right it can totally fit the flavor of greek and roman mythology quite well.
By right I mean colored artifacts. Cards that represent the old Titans would be awesome as colored artifacts. Or equipment that represent weapons on the old Gods...
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Vandal Blast and Hellkite Tyrant would like a word. (And a standard environment where they make sense to be honest... they are feeling kinda out of place and confused).
Because Greko-Roman mythology wasn't obsessed with artifacts...
Not to mention your Golden Fleeces, Golden Apples, and all kinds of other desirable artifacts that Heroes were always questing after.
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So if you mean we all know that travis took credit for a deck that he didn't create and didn't even make the most succesful version then yes we all know what he did.
Dude is a joke, the super secret bust open brew he did in Living End he lost in a mirror match the first tournament he took it to. SUPER SECRET BREW WOO!
Sure, he didn't invent the deck (I believe it was someone named Derek Adams), but he made it famous. Travis gave it a lot of exposure. That's what I meant.
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