How so? The Pre-M14 Legend rule/Planeswalker Uniqueness rule matched the fluff in the sense that there is only one Jace.
No, two Jaces meant no Jaces in the pre-M14 Legend rule. If you mean the rule that predated that one, the one that was before Mirrodin, it left too much power in allowing one person to steal someone else's momentum in the mirror.
This is the opposite of both, meaning that the only thing the legend rule effects in your own deck construction. As such it takes out a random factor by limiting the impact of legends to your own deck, so that you can count on said card to do what is printed on it.
Geist of St. Traft was not costed lower on the off chance that someone else will play Clone/Geist of St. Traft. They costed it to the abilities, and the fact that you can only have one on the field. I'm VERY okay with this, it's VERY fair. If they are going to continue to print legendaries, then they should be printed in an environment that doesn't requires tricks to deal with them.
How so? The Pre-M14 Legend rule/Planeswalker Uniqueness rule matched the fluff in the sense that there is only one Jace.
None of the rules truly solve the clone issue, though. Flavorfully, you should be able to have 10,000 clones of Jace since clones are impersonations, not actually you.
Of course, originally, legends were restricted so you could only have one in your deck. That isn't exactly good for card sales, though.
None of the rules truly solve the clone issue, though. Flavorfully, you should be able to have 10,000 clones of Jace since clones are impersonations, not actually you.
Of course, originally, legends were restricted so you could only have one in your deck. That isn't exactly good for card sales, though.
I've been playing for awhile, and this was never the case. The original rule stated that you could have only 1 on the field, and if your opponent played the same legendary then you had to sacrifice yours and your opponent gained the legendary(paying to get him to switch sides).
This was changed right before kamigawa block to the current rules, and now they are just allowing both to live.
None of the rules truly solve the clone issue, though. Flavorfully, you should be able to have 10,000 clones of Jace since clones are impersonations, not actually you.
Of course, originally, legends were restricted so you could only have one in your deck. That isn't exactly good for card sales, though.
Agreed. All they'd have to say is even though a clone copies everything, they don't invoke the legend rule and I'd be happy.
I also feel it is a bit weird they can't copy a walker because they aren't creatures but that is a separate gripe.
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"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
How so? The Pre-M14 Legend rule/Planeswalker Uniqueness rule matched the fluff in the sense that there is only one Jace.
One Jace per game, if there's five 5 games at the table going on, there could be five Jaces. Not everybody can call on the same guy at the same time.
The new rule makes legendaries not "one-of". You don't need to time travel or anything. All you have to do is play the spell, and realize that's it's a higher quality of spell considering it is of a unique, distinct person. And apparently you can't maintain more than one of such spells active.
I know there has been speculation that this will feed directly into Theros and how legends will play a role in the set, but I have wondered about other ramifications.
Does this "your battlefield" and "your opponent's battlefield" thing mean that Two-Headed Giant is split into two or four battlefields? I would really like to see cards that interact with teammates, but it's a bit wordy and can be irrelevant a lot of the time. If some ETB effects could be made for "your battlefield," it could scale for 2HG or Archenemy. Just wondering if this change opens that possibility.
Also, I have pretty much figured it would only be a matter of time until we get a 'walker card that depicts two characters teaming-up (e.g. Planeswalker - Gideon Chandra). "Clone-kill" would be a major downside here, as it would be susceptible to two cards. This could make it easier to make such cards.
Anyone else think this is a precurser to them printing legendary ABUR duals in the next commander precon? The new rule opens Wizards up to printing legendary lands again (which they currently really hate doing because of the strip mine effect).
Last time around they almost printed snow duals. This seems like a more elegant card because it's EDH friendly but won't make legacy go haywire (because you would NEVER run more than 1 in a deck anyway)
Anyone else think this is a precurser to them printing legendary ABUR duals in the next commander precon? The new rule opens Wizards up to printing legendary lands again (which they currently really hate doing because of the strip mine effect).
Last time around they almost printed snow duals. This seems like a more elegant card because it's EDH friendly but won't make legacy go haywire (because you would NEVER run more than 1 in a deck anyway)
I am mostly an EDH player and I really don't like the new legendary rule (it kind of misses the point of being legendary), there would be some great exploitations of it...
As if it wasn't exploiting the old rule that you could cast your general and all your opponent had to do was play Phantasmal Image and kill it?
Especially if your general has a high casting cost, it was kinda lame.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
Anyone else think this is a precurser to them printing legendary ABUR duals in the next commander precon? The new rule opens Wizards up to printing legendary lands again (which they currently really hate doing because of the strip mine effect).
Last time around they almost printed snow duals. This seems like a more elegant card because it's EDH friendly but won't make legacy go haywire (because you would NEVER run more than 1 in a deck anyway)
I've seen a lot of speculation about this, and I'm not really sure where people are getting it. Like, they never really considered snow duals, to the best of my knowledge? It's more an idea that people in the community came up with, because they really really want a duals reprint and look for loopholes to do it. Maro has repeatedly said they plan to stick by the spirit of the Reserve List, and has also said that printing duals with the legendary type stickered onto them would be breaking the spirit of the Reserve List, as it would nearly be a functional reprint. So basically... I wouldn't get your hopes up.
No, two Jaces meant no Jaces in the pre-M14 Legend rule. If you mean the rule that predated that one, the one that was before Mirrodin, it left too much power in allowing one person to steal someone else's momentum in the mirror.
This is the opposite of both, meaning that the only thing the legend rule effects in your own deck construction. As such it takes out a random factor by limiting the impact of legends to your own deck, so that you can count on said card to do what is printed on it.
Geist of St. Traft was not costed lower on the off chance that someone else will play Clone/Geist of St. Traft. They costed it to the abilities, and the fact that you can only have one on the field. I'm VERY okay with this, it's VERY fair. If they are going to continue to print legendaries, then they should be printed in an environment that doesn't requires tricks to deal with them.
This is the first time anyone has ever described Geist of Saint Traft as 'fair'.
That problem would be very easily avoided by generals not being put into graveyard due to the legend rule - without messing up with the game beyond that.
A special rule just for the general? Other high-cost legendary creatures had the same weakness making Image overpowered, Chord of Calling for 3 killed any legend, Phyrexian metamorph, etc.
I'm not saying the game won't get overrun with clones now that the caster also keeps a copy at much lower resource cost, but at least they can be used as an abusive source of removal.
Geist will only be in Standard for three months after the changes kick in.
Besides, cloning it in Standard isn't even all that viable, seeing as ALL of the good clones cost 4+, which is a fair bit more difficult than just throwing an uncounterable Supreme Verdict at it and twice as expensive as a Devour Flesh.
To be fair, cloning legends in general has become much less of a strategy after the two arguably best clones ever, Metamorph and Image, rotated from the format, leaving only good ole' Clone back. Clones are mostly used to copy utility creatures (Thragtusk, this is your cue), which is still possible.
Also, for the people whining about flavor:
Magic is a game which (flavor-wise) depicts two powerful wizards, also known as Planeswalkers, who battle each other by casting spells and by summoning images of different creatures they have encountered on the planes they have visited.
If both people have met up with Olivia Voldaren at any given point, then whoop-dee-doo, they can summon an avatar of her to fight for them. Although they are limited to one avatar per being at any given time. The same thing is true for regular creatures. Compare for example Oivia Voldaren to Markov Patrician. The patricians you summon have names as well, but given there are multiple patricians of house Markov, you are able to summon all of them, although they are all different in the specific character they refer to, seeing as their titles are all the same. Olivia, however, is a one-of-a-kind almighty Vampire mistress with intense powers unmatched by most on her plane, making it only fair that you can only have one avatar out at a time with her particular skill set.
Where it gets tricky is with Planeswalkers, seeing as you actually summon the planeswalker to fight for you. The optimal way of doing this would be going way back and using the rule of "first come, first serve", meaning that the first copy overruled all following ones. But as it has already been stated, this new change probably has some kinks that can be worked out or (more likely) some explaining on the flavor front that can shore it up.
The old rule was just as easily explainable, making the flavor-related comparison invalid.
tl;dr
Get over yourselves. We've faced more mind-bending changes in Magic, and this one does A: not affect Standard all that much, B: make legend/planeswalker mirrors interesting rather than easily solved and based on "who got there first", and C: fix cards that previously weren't working as intended (clones and hexproof legends, I'm looking at you).
The Legend/planeswalker rule is not. I mean I understand the reasoning behind it, but dropping a legendary or planeswalker before your opponent was a way of controlling the battlefield. It became a chess-like "queen trade" sort of setup, or if nothing else, a temporary distraction.
Being able to play two just kinda feels like legends and planeswalkers aren't so cool anymore.
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"The difference between MTG and science is that one has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while the other has people dressed up in silly clothes, using words you can't understand and doing potentially quite dangerous stuff while playing cards."
My Decks: WAnglesW WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW WUGAllymillGUW
Magic is a game which (flavor-wise) depicts two powerful wizards, also known as Planeswalkers, who battle each other by casting spells and by summoning images of different creatures they have encountered on the planes they have visited.
If both people have met up with Olivia Voldaren at any given point, then whoop-dee-doo, they can summon an avatar of her to fight for them. Although they are limited to one avatar per being at any given time. The same thing is true for regular creatures. Compare for example Oivia Voldaren to Markov Patrician. The patricians you summon have names as well, but given there are multiple patricians of house Markov, you are able to summon all of them, although they are all different in the specific character they refer to, seeing as their titles are all the same. Olivia, however, is a one-of-a-kind almighty Vampire mistress with intense powers unmatched by most on her plane, making it only fair that you can only have one avatar out at a time with her particular skill set.
This argument doesn't work for me. Whose to say that I've only met Olivia 1 time? If I've met her multiple times, across say many years, then why can't I pull her from a different year each time? It's not the same Olivia but it's still her. The flavor before was that there was only 1 of the creature, so if I summoned them first, they wouldn't "be there" for you to summon again. I mean this is so ingrained into Wizards lore that this was how Ajani was able to defeat Nicol Bolas. He CLONED him.
I don't like the change and I don't really see the need for it. Considering they could just shelve Clone and his ilk for newer versions that say copy Non-Legendary creature. This is going to have far reaching implications that I'm not sure were fully thought out, especially the change to the Planeswalker rules. That just makes even less sense to me.
No, two Jaces meant no Jaces in the pre-M14 Legend rule. If you mean the rule that predated that one, the one that was before Mirrodin, it left too much power in allowing one person to steal someone else's momentum in the mirror.
This is the opposite of both, meaning that the only thing the legend rule effects in your own deck construction. As such it takes out a random factor by limiting the impact of legends to your own deck, so that you can count on said card to do what is printed on it.
Geist of St. Traft was not costed lower on the off chance that someone else will play Clone/Geist of St. Traft. They costed it to the abilities, and the fact that you can only have one on the field. I'm VERY okay with this, it's VERY fair. If they are going to continue to print legendaries, then they should be printed in an environment that doesn't requires tricks to deal with them.
None of the rules truly solve the clone issue, though. Flavorfully, you should be able to have 10,000 clones of Jace since clones are impersonations, not actually you.
Of course, originally, legends were restricted so you could only have one in your deck. That isn't exactly good for card sales, though.
I've been playing for awhile, and this was never the case. The original rule stated that you could have only 1 on the field, and if your opponent played the same legendary then you had to sacrifice yours and your opponent gained the legendary(paying to get him to switch sides).
This was changed right before kamigawa block to the current rules, and now they are just allowing both to live.
Agreed. All they'd have to say is even though a clone copies everything, they don't invoke the legend rule and I'd be happy.
I also feel it is a bit weird they can't copy a walker because they aren't creatures but that is a separate gripe.
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Legacy: UW Miracle, U MUC, UW StoneBlade, U Merfolk, R Burn, & UB Reanimator
EDH: U Azami, Lady of Scrolls & URG Riku of Two Reflections
Casual: UR Dragonstorm, UB Dralnu-Teachings, U NinjaFae, & UR Izzet EDH
Mana-Clash
return to Dominaria!![/URL]
yeah let's abuse this new rule
It's a card as well.
Mana Clash
return to Dominaria!![/URL]
One Jace per game, if there's five 5 games at the table going on, there could be five Jaces. Not everybody can call on the same guy at the same time.
The new rule makes legendaries not "one-of". You don't need to time travel or anything. All you have to do is play the spell, and realize that's it's a higher quality of spell considering it is of a unique, distinct person. And apparently you can't maintain more than one of such spells active.
Does this "your battlefield" and "your opponent's battlefield" thing mean that Two-Headed Giant is split into two or four battlefields? I would really like to see cards that interact with teammates, but it's a bit wordy and can be irrelevant a lot of the time. If some ETB effects could be made for "your battlefield," it could scale for 2HG or Archenemy. Just wondering if this change opens that possibility.
Also, I have pretty much figured it would only be a matter of time until we get a 'walker card that depicts two characters teaming-up (e.g. Planeswalker - Gideon Chandra). "Clone-kill" would be a major downside here, as it would be susceptible to two cards. This could make it easier to make such cards.
Last time around they almost printed snow duals. This seems like a more elegant card because it's EDH friendly but won't make legacy go haywire (because you would NEVER run more than 1 in a deck anyway)
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
I hope so.
As if it wasn't exploiting the old rule that you could cast your general and all your opponent had to do was play Phantasmal Image and kill it?
Especially if your general has a high casting cost, it was kinda lame.
I've seen a lot of speculation about this, and I'm not really sure where people are getting it. Like, they never really considered snow duals, to the best of my knowledge? It's more an idea that people in the community came up with, because they really really want a duals reprint and look for loopholes to do it. Maro has repeatedly said they plan to stick by the spirit of the Reserve List, and has also said that printing duals with the legendary type stickered onto them would be breaking the spirit of the Reserve List, as it would nearly be a functional reprint. So basically... I wouldn't get your hopes up.
This is the first time anyone has ever described Geist of Saint Traft as 'fair'.
A special rule just for the general? Other high-cost legendary creatures had the same weakness making Image overpowered, Chord of Calling for 3 killed any legend, Phyrexian metamorph, etc.
I'm not saying the game won't get overrun with clones now that the caster also keeps a copy at much lower resource cost, but at least they can be used as an abusive source of removal.
Besides, cloning it in Standard isn't even all that viable, seeing as ALL of the good clones cost 4+, which is a fair bit more difficult than just throwing an uncounterable Supreme Verdict at it and twice as expensive as a Devour Flesh.
To be fair, cloning legends in general has become much less of a strategy after the two arguably best clones ever, Metamorph and Image, rotated from the format, leaving only good ole' Clone back. Clones are mostly used to copy utility creatures (Thragtusk, this is your cue), which is still possible.
Also, for the people whining about flavor:
Magic is a game which (flavor-wise) depicts two powerful wizards, also known as Planeswalkers, who battle each other by casting spells and by summoning images of different creatures they have encountered on the planes they have visited.
If both people have met up with Olivia Voldaren at any given point, then whoop-dee-doo, they can summon an avatar of her to fight for them. Although they are limited to one avatar per being at any given time. The same thing is true for regular creatures. Compare for example Oivia Voldaren to Markov Patrician. The patricians you summon have names as well, but given there are multiple patricians of house Markov, you are able to summon all of them, although they are all different in the specific character they refer to, seeing as their titles are all the same. Olivia, however, is a one-of-a-kind almighty Vampire mistress with intense powers unmatched by most on her plane, making it only fair that you can only have one avatar out at a time with her particular skill set.
Where it gets tricky is with Planeswalkers, seeing as you actually summon the planeswalker to fight for you. The optimal way of doing this would be going way back and using the rule of "first come, first serve", meaning that the first copy overruled all following ones. But as it has already been stated, this new change probably has some kinks that can be worked out or (more likely) some explaining on the flavor front that can shore it up.
The old rule was just as easily explainable, making the flavor-related comparison invalid.
tl;dr
Get over yourselves. We've faced more mind-bending changes in Magic, and this one does A: not affect Standard all that much, B: make legend/planeswalker mirrors interesting rather than easily solved and based on "who got there first", and C: fix cards that previously weren't working as intended (clones and hexproof legends, I'm looking at you).
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//gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?type=+[legendary">+[land]||subtype=+[legendary]+[land]"]There are, but R&D had been cutting down on them lately due to bad gameplay with the Legendary rule. Now that the rule was revised, however, R&D said they are more likely to look into designing more Legendary Lands.
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
Well if that is the case we could see a cycle of legendary dual lands or even tri-color lands. Unlikely I know, but it could be interesting.
They were in the playtest card binder for the Commander product.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=346013
Edit: Nath'd a day ago. My bad.
Iunno, in my Grixis control deck I have Six whole cards that can usually deal with him if i'm lucky.
2)I think we can take this as a guarantee that Theros is Legend-heavy.
3)Hopefully they will change the rule back after Theros rotates out of standard.
Considering you are in the minority about the new rule, don't hold your breath about it getting changed back. It improves game play so much.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
The Legend/planeswalker rule is not. I mean I understand the reasoning behind it, but dropping a legendary or planeswalker before your opponent was a way of controlling the battlefield. It became a chess-like "queen trade" sort of setup, or if nothing else, a temporary distraction.
Being able to play two just kinda feels like legends and planeswalkers aren't so cool anymore.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
This argument doesn't work for me. Whose to say that I've only met Olivia 1 time? If I've met her multiple times, across say many years, then why can't I pull her from a different year each time? It's not the same Olivia but it's still her. The flavor before was that there was only 1 of the creature, so if I summoned them first, they wouldn't "be there" for you to summon again. I mean this is so ingrained into Wizards lore that this was how Ajani was able to defeat Nicol Bolas. He CLONED him.
I don't like the change and I don't really see the need for it. Considering they could just shelve Clone and his ilk for newer versions that say copy Non-Legendary creature. This is going to have far reaching implications that I'm not sure were fully thought out, especially the change to the Planeswalker rules. That just makes even less sense to me.