"Magic the Gathering is first and foremost a game thats all about interactivity. Because playing your cards, especially creatures, is fun. How good does it feel to cast your 9 mana creature and swing with it? We decided, for the better of the game, to finally let the color blue go, as it severly reduced the interactivity of the games and messed up too many player's game plans. Now, for the first time ever in Magic: the Gathering's history, you can finally play a game without asking your opponent 'may I?'"
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
The flavor of legends actually has some peace now. In thinking the legendary spells were unique, that they were of the actual characters, there were a ton of hoops to jump through to make sense of it. Time/space had a factor, for example for the old Venser and the new Venser for a number of reasons. It all made sense to me, but the one thing I never really explained was how two players playing right next to each other both had Jace... two wizards fighting a stone's throw away from each other calling upon the same, uniquely magical, planeswalker.
The new rule cuts that mumbo-jumbo out of the equation and simplifies it. It's not about the inherent uniqueness of the character, per se. It's about how uniqueness causes a more powerful spell to be form. We're all wizards, we all craft spells from the inspiration we get from nature and the planes around us. Many times we see a RMaaka and just craft a spell based on it, not that RMaaka specifically. When you craft a spell in detail, which you wouldn't care too unless the subject is truly unique in some way, then you get a powerful version of that spell.
So the legend rule now makes sense because it's about the nature of the spell. Wizards can craft spells, copy them, do whatever they want with them. But with specific, narrow, spells of a character, you get the baggage that is it's inherent power. When a wizard summons a character, he can only have one active at a time. It's kind of like how many have mused that it would make sense to only be allowed one copy of a legend in a deck (even though that is a rule difficult to implement positively). Now, you can only draw on one of a powerful Jace spell at a time. The same is true of the opponent. And all "players" in the multiverse.
It's like using a Limit Break in Final Fantasy or finishers in fighting games. You don't care about the downside of having to build up to it and around it, all you care about is how great it is when you get to use it. It's too powerful to be used in multiples. That's what legends have tried to embody for a long time. And it never made sense why two opponents using their finisher on each other canceled both out.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
they should just make legendary mean only one in the deck. wait that would kill sales because nobody would ever by packs because who wants a mythic one of legend.
so mayby they can reduce a legendary card in rarity to uncommon. wait now its not so legendary because...well they are uncommon.
solution. ban everything legendary. everything legendary in the future will be banned. create a new card type called commander and sell them in commander only boosters with new foil process and limit the print run to one box per store.
That has only become the case recently when new removal is weak and new creatures have citp-effects that give you instant value from casting them.
The quote in question is "There are no wrong threats only wrong answers." and it's not a mike flores original, just another thing someone else said or did to come out of his mouth. The point is quite valid however, no matter what threat you draw you can use it to win the game. If you draw the wrong answer or even the right answer at the wrong time (as anyone who has ever topdecked a counter the turn after the game winning threat hit the table can tell you), you lose. The power level of the threat doesn't even matter just that it be a threat. Even if you counter or kill every thing else I do, I can kill you with a chimney imp.
"Magic the Gathering is first and foremost a game thats all about interactivity. Because playing your cards, especially creatures, is fun. How good does it feel to cast your 9 mana creature and swing with it? We decided, for the better of the game, to finally let the color blue go, as it severly reduced the interactivity of the games and messed up too many player's game plans. Now, for the first time ever in Magic: the Gathering's history, you can finally play a game without asking your opponent 'may I?'"
Go post your job application to the Wizards Evil Overlords of the Coast Public Relations Dominations department somewhere else ;-p
MTG new Legend Rules paradox: Brothers Yamazaki
If one Brother goes to space in light speed for 1 year and then come back it will be younger or older than the other brother?
The answer: None ... your op plays another brother that will kill one of the brothers and take his Identity then start his gruesomeagenda of vendetta.
Guys, guys, guys. It's obviously not fun for new players to have their legends destroyed when their opponent plays them. It totally kills the spirit of the game. Just like land destruction, and countermagic, and damage stacking and drawing cards and...
This is all for the best guys, just like the mythic rarity. Settle down.
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Winner of the MTGSalvation Standard Championships III & IV.
"Magic the Gathering is first and foremost a game thats all about interactivity. Because playing your cards, especially creatures, is fun. How good does it feel to cast your 9 mana creature and swing with it? We decided, for the better of the game, to finally let the color blue go, as it severly reduced the interactivity of the games and messed up too many player's game plans. Now, for the first time ever in Magic: the Gathering's history, you can finally play a game without asking your opponent 'may I?'"
Yep, definitely seems that's the direction they want to go in, making the game into Magic: The Solitaire. Just slap cards down without ever having to even look at your opponent's board, because who cares, it doesn't matter.
Tons of uncounterable stuff, bad counter magic, now this garbage with legends.
Slap cards down blindly (don't bother to think, or plan strategic plays, because that's boring!), turn guys sideways. That's what they want the game to be, I guess.
Tons of uncounterable stuff, bad counter magic, now this garbage with legends.
I think we've got really cool countermagic right now. I mean theres a silence counter and freakin mana drain. It's just that even low cc creas these days are threats, making these counters way too slow, or the threats are uncounterable to begin with.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Yep, definitely seems that's the direction they want to go in, making the game into Magic: The Solitaire. Just slap cards down without ever having to even look at your opponent's board, because who cares, it doesn't matter.
Tons of uncounterable stuff, bad counter magic, now this garbage with legends.
Slap cards down blindly (don't bother to think, or plan strategic plays, because that's boring!), turn guys sideways. That's what they want the game to be, I guess.
Go play a few tournaments right now using top decks, with these new rules in play even, and let me know what your win/loss record looks like if you "slap dudes down blindly, turn guys sideways, and don't bother to look at your opponents board". More permanents on the battlefield means more interaction of a different flavor, instead of "you have a dude. I play a dude. Now we have zero dudes". I'm not saying it isn't less interaction, because it is...but that doesn't suddenly mean that every legend and walker is an untouchable, unremovable, unblockable can't be blocked God that ignores all cards forever.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
From a design standpoint, does anyone else feel like this change actually narrows the design space for future legends?
Legendary used to be a tool you could use to prevent a card from stacking with itself. Yes it would be used on things that were just typically more powerful than their CMC would normally allow but it was also used on creatures and such where if you had more than 1 in play would start getting degenerate overly complex board states. It was a great tool to use to balance abilities that were good and flavorful on their own without creating bad situations.
For instance:
Thalia, to prevent degenerate Stax from happening
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, to prevent complex arithmetic and order of operations questions from happening
Progenitus because for a new player having one of those on either side is a confusing rules situation
Olivia Voldaren because who want to deal with Oliva stealing herself
All these situations are now real. You can double stack a thalia if your opponent is playing her, You can get into order of operations and rounding with Gisela, etc.
I am more upset about these changes because I feel like they will force the banning and restriction of otherwise fine cards in other formats, but just the design logic alone baffles me.
From a design standpoint, does anyone else feel like this change actually narrows the design space for future legends?
Legendary used to be a tool you could use to prevent a card from stacking with itself. Yes it would be used on things that were just typically more powerful than their CMC would normally allow but it was also used on creatures and such where if you had more than 1 in play would start getting degenerate overly complex board states. It was a great tool to use to balance abilities that were good and flavorful on their own without creating bad situations.
For instance:
Thalia, to prevent degenerate Stax from happening
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, to prevent complex arithmetic and order of operations questions from happening
Progenitus because for a new player having one of those on either side is a confusing rules situation
Olivia Voldaren because who want to deal with Oliva stealing herself
All these situations are now real. You can double stack a thalia if your opponent is playing her, You can get into order of operations and rounding with Gisela, etc.
I am more upset about these changes because I feel like they will force the banning and restriction of otherwise fine cards in other formats, but just the design logic alone baffles me.
Good point
This rules update will invariably have some... undesired ramifications in eternal formats: Gaea's Cradle insane ramps are definitely going to start happening alongside some of the other examples you bring up.
Those examples are very interesting however: adding my Thalia on top of yours (rated R) adds a very interesting dynamic to the game if I am prepared for it (somehow); Olivia stealing herself is hilarious but could significantly hurt her playability; Progetinus vs Progenitus doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun in terms of ruling, same with Gisela.
I do think the positives outweigh the negatives in terms of flavour going forward however
I think we've got really cool countermagic right now. I mean theres a silence counter and freakin mana drain. It's just that even low cc creas these days are threats, making these counters way too slow, or the threats are uncounterable to begin with.
I don't know about standard but in any other format those two counters are garbage compared to the other options.
You're completely right, counters are getting more and more expensive and wotc is blatantly pushing them into unplayability.
This rules change makes me sad. They said they wanted to make planeswalkers more awesome, so they broke all the legendary things too.
This rule could've been unique to planeswalkers only and the game would be no worse for wear, but...now we can have two tabernacles on the field? 3-5 in EDH? Olivia stealing herself? Thalia blocking and killing herself in combat?
yay for Mutilate
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
"Magic the Gathering is first and foremost a game thats all about interactivity. Because playing your cards, especially creatures, is fun. How good does it feel to cast your 9 mana creature and swing with it? We decided, for the better of the game, to finally let the color blue go, as it severly reduced the interactivity of the games and messed up too many player's game plans. Now, for the first time ever in Magic: the Gathering's history, you can finally play a game without asking your opponent 'may I?'"
The new rule cuts that mumbo-jumbo out of the equation and simplifies it. It's not about the inherent uniqueness of the character, per se. It's about how uniqueness causes a more powerful spell to be form. We're all wizards, we all craft spells from the inspiration we get from nature and the planes around us. Many times we see a RMaaka and just craft a spell based on it, not that RMaaka specifically. When you craft a spell in detail, which you wouldn't care too unless the subject is truly unique in some way, then you get a powerful version of that spell.
So the legend rule now makes sense because it's about the nature of the spell. Wizards can craft spells, copy them, do whatever they want with them. But with specific, narrow, spells of a character, you get the baggage that is it's inherent power. When a wizard summons a character, he can only have one active at a time. It's kind of like how many have mused that it would make sense to only be allowed one copy of a legend in a deck (even though that is a rule difficult to implement positively). Now, you can only draw on one of a powerful Jace spell at a time. The same is true of the opponent. And all "players" in the multiverse.
It's like using a Limit Break in Final Fantasy or finishers in fighting games. You don't care about the downside of having to build up to it and around it, all you care about is how great it is when you get to use it. It's too powerful to be used in multiples. That's what legends have tried to embody for a long time. And it never made sense why two opponents using their finisher on each other canceled both out.
but Prime Speaker Zegana shenanigans incoming.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Someone brought up Progenitor Mimic too.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
so mayby they can reduce a legendary card in rarity to uncommon. wait now its not so legendary because...well they are uncommon.
solution. ban everything legendary. everything legendary in the future will be banned. create a new card type called commander and sell them in commander only boosters with new foil process and limit the print run to one box per store.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
The quote in question is "There are no wrong threats only wrong answers." and it's not a mike flores original, just another thing someone else said or did to come out of his mouth. The point is quite valid however, no matter what threat you draw you can use it to win the game. If you draw the wrong answer or even the right answer at the wrong time (as anyone who has ever topdecked a counter the turn after the game winning threat hit the table can tell you), you lose. The power level of the threat doesn't even matter just that it be a threat. Even if you counter or kill every thing else I do, I can kill you with a chimney imp.
Go post your job application to the
WizardsEvil Overlords of the Coast PublicRelationsDominations department somewhere else ;-pPosted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
If one Brother goes to space in light speed for 1 year and then come back it will be younger or older than the other brother?
The answer: None ... your op plays another brother that will kill one of the brothers and take his Identity then start his gruesome agenda of vendetta.
Its the MTG's soapopera
This is all for the best guys, just like the mythic rarity. Settle down.
My DCI ELO Ratings - May they rest in peace :'(
Yep, definitely seems that's the direction they want to go in, making the game into Magic: The Solitaire. Just slap cards down without ever having to even look at your opponent's board, because who cares, it doesn't matter.
Tons of uncounterable stuff, bad counter magic, now this garbage with legends.
Slap cards down blindly (don't bother to think, or plan strategic plays, because that's boring!), turn guys sideways. That's what they want the game to be, I guess.
I think we've got really cool countermagic right now. I mean theres a silence counter and freakin mana drain. It's just that even low cc creas these days are threats, making these counters way too slow, or the threats are uncounterable to begin with.
Go play a few tournaments right now using top decks, with these new rules in play even, and let me know what your win/loss record looks like if you "slap dudes down blindly, turn guys sideways, and don't bother to look at your opponents board". More permanents on the battlefield means more interaction of a different flavor, instead of "you have a dude. I play a dude. Now we have zero dudes". I'm not saying it isn't less interaction, because it is...but that doesn't suddenly mean that every legend and walker is an untouchable, unremovable,
unblockablecan't be blocked God that ignores all cards forever.RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Legendary used to be a tool you could use to prevent a card from stacking with itself. Yes it would be used on things that were just typically more powerful than their CMC would normally allow but it was also used on creatures and such where if you had more than 1 in play would start getting degenerate overly complex board states. It was a great tool to use to balance abilities that were good and flavorful on their own without creating bad situations.
For instance:
All these situations are now real. You can double stack a thalia if your opponent is playing her, You can get into order of operations and rounding with Gisela, etc.
I am more upset about these changes because I feel like they will force the banning and restriction of otherwise fine cards in other formats, but just the design logic alone baffles me.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Good point
This rules update will invariably have some... undesired ramifications in eternal formats: Gaea's Cradle insane ramps are definitely going to start happening alongside some of the other examples you bring up.
Those examples are very interesting however: adding my Thalia on top of yours (rated R) adds a very interesting dynamic to the game if I am prepared for it (somehow); Olivia stealing herself is hilarious but could significantly hurt her playability; Progetinus vs Progenitus doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun in terms of ruling, same with Gisela.
I do think the positives outweigh the negatives in terms of flavour going forward however
Eh, How So?
He used to be the only clone who can clone a legend and live.
Ah, he lost his uniqueness among clones you mean. That he did.
I don't know about standard but in any other format those two counters are garbage compared to the other options.
You're completely right, counters are getting more and more expensive and wotc is blatantly pushing them into unplayability.
This rule could've been unique to planeswalkers only and the game would be no worse for wear, but...now we can have two tabernacles on the field? 3-5 in EDH? Olivia stealing herself? Thalia blocking and killing herself in combat?
whyyyyyy
Loam Pox
Standard:
Boros Burn
Dark Depths + Vesuva is pointless
Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage has been mentioned