RoN needs one more vote to tie now. must....try.....focusing.....on...making..it...win....................(collapses from fainting)
even.................bigger......gap.....now.
If the last poll is anything to go by, Blood is smoked.
God, Ill be sad if revenge tokes this. I'll be blazing mad.
goodness i want to see this(sarcasm)
a lot of people on this thread will be blazing mad, excluding me cuz i don't regret voting RoN
and TK-421, viperesque, arcadic, and Boros_archangel have yet to post here...
How on earth did Blood in the Watering Can beat out Consuming Contract? Contract is far more creative and cool, even if it may not be as good. I'm disappointed that BitWC is leading in the polls. I like Revenge of Necromancy, though it is quite narrow. I wish there was a better option.
Consuming Contract lost out, presumably, because the effect was broken as hell and the only way that could would EVER see print is with an infeasably expensive converted mana cost. I for one am glad it lost.
Hoping for Revenge of Necromancy, but it better end up costing a fair amount. If this turns into another 5-7 mana enchantment I'll be rather upset. (Though still probably try to run it in EDH)
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Into the Maw of Hell is a name so awesome, it deserves its own song.
It would be about a world of brown spikes and red fire, where men fight and scream and become blurry masses. Then it would change to somber, we learn that this glorious place exists only in Raymond Swanland's head. To visit it, you must enter the maw of Hell itself.
Consuming Contract lost out, presumably, because the effect was broken as hell and the only way that could would EVER see print is with an infeasably expensive converted mana cost. I for one am glad it lost.
I'm not really seeing how it was broken, it was an enchantment with Night's Whisper, Murder, and something attached to it that then makes you lose the game if you haven't won. You have to run bounce with it to use it effectively or already be in a position to win in which case it's just win more.
Consuming Contract lost out, presumably, because the effect was broken as hell and the only way that could would EVER see print is with an infeasably expensive converted mana cost. I for one am glad it lost.
Except people are voting for RoN and its effect would be overcosted at 1 CMC.
The names are just place holders... but there are so many people on here that don't seem to know that. Considering I feel like MTGS is among some of the more knowledgeable magic players this does not bode well for the real vote.
Now apply that logic to the fact that some people here read the card wrong. The fact that some people here still think it's better to vote for a narrow card over the greater good. That some people are still convinced on here that it will be the bees knees...
I'm frankly expecting disappointment.
BitWC has so much potential. And that's even if it DID cost BBB (which i secretly hope it does). I think it could end up with a great name, some amazing art and ultimately be a card I would be proud to see years to come in future ymtc's.
RoN should have nothing to do with necromancy. I know it's pretty odd to argue specifics over made up concepts but frankly necromancy is the, based on various fantasy settings, practice of manipulating life force. Discard is thematically based in the realm of forgetfulness and insanity. A card that deals with revenge should in fact punish a player for doing something to you, not reward your own action against said person. Revenge of Necromancy feels thematically like oppressing your will on someone.
p.s. I decided to drop the arguments over power since frankly it's been beaten to death that RoN is a terrible corner case card, while BitWC is a superior card designed from a playability perspective. Instead I thought I would point out the fact that names aren't set and why that's a good thing at this point.
there is a HUGE difference between life loss and a creature. some people are not getting that with their megrim comments. geth grimoire sure, but this card is superior to megrim in terms of versatility.
RoN is "versatile" the same way Dash Hopes is versatile.
Consuming Contract lost out, presumably, because the effect was broken as hell and the only way that could would EVER see print is with an infeasably expensive converted mana cost. I for one am glad it lost.
Doubtful. Most of the voters are casual players.
It likely lost out because as soon as they read "lose the game", they recoiled in terror and clicked the other option.
It’s like the universe screams in your face, “Do you know what I am? How grand I am? How old I am? Can you even comprehend what I am? What are you, compared to me?” And when you know enough science, you can just smile up at the universe and reply, “Dude, I am you.”
It likely lost out because as soon as they read "lose the game", they recoiled in terror and clicked the other option.
Yeah, this makes sense to me.
I really doubt people vote against a card because they perceive it as too powerful; in fact I think they would vote for it in that case. And I think it's wrong to say Consuming Contract would have to be overcosted. It's not a card you want to put down early unless you're deck's devoted to removing it before you die (in which case, you probably have a fun, but bad deck.)
EDIT: Oh man, it's tied! How exciting! I guess it's a good matchup.
Breaking news.
There will be no Tibalt, Tamiyo, Tezzeret, Garruk, Chandra, Liliana, mini-Jace, big-Jace, Garruk again, or Sarkhan in Theros either.
There will also be no Black Lotus.
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
So many "Pox/discard" haters here. How else can you explain arguments of RoN being narrow and BitWC being playable?
BitWC is so damn slow and essentially has THREE "if" clauses (creature/lifeloss/reinvestment of creature) before you can get any value out of the card - I really don't think people realize how slow the card is and can't image a deck that would run it more than a 1-of.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
No. They should not be if they want a competitive card. It's not just pox hating. As has been said many, many times before:
1) We have a basis of comparison to other cards that benefit when you make your opponent discard: Megrim, Liliana's Caress, Geth's Grimoire. None have been playable. Grimoire in particular arguably has a more powerful effect than this card.
2) RoN is bad in the early game. In good (competitive or good casual) decks, you want your black discard cheap and fast. You hit with Duress effects on the first turn, and then your Rise//Fall / Hymn / Verdict on turn 2. The whole point is to quickly strip the enemy of threats before they can resolve them, because your deck is full of cards that don't do anything to permanents on the battlefield. You are not typically going to want to waste and mana in your first few turns playing an enchantment that might eventually give your discard spells an upside, because you just gave up the opportunity to disrupt your opponent.
3) Discard-focused cards are terrible in the late game. Have you ever topdecked a duress in a suiblack deck on turn 7? Feels bad, man. This card is even worse than that; at least the duress might help you punch through a counterspell. RoN just does absolutely nothing while they top deck and cast each turn.
4) For a do-nothing card to be played, it better win the game or darn close to it once you combo out. There's not such an obvious combo here. Granted, IF you have RoN out, and IF the opponent has a full grip, and IF you then cast a Wheel effect, you're in damn good shape because you just drew 7 and have a bunch of mana and dudes to work with, maybe keep chaining into more stuff. But this is magical Christmas land. By the time you can resolve RoN and a wheel, your opponent probably has very few lands in his hand anyway so you're unlikely to be able to make an engine out of this.
Now, there are two things that would give me pause about RoN, neither of which I think are likely to happen: 1) they make it into a Leyline. Then it might be good because it gives your discard spells and upside without slowing you down. 2) they print a card that lets you search your opponent's library for some number of cards, then forces him or her to discard em. Then you have control over the modes.
So many "Pox/discard" haters here. How else can you explain arguments of RoN being narrow and BitWC being playable?
Very simply: experience. Discard-based decks are generally bad, and this card is not going to make discard decks good. Playable discard decks usually need to start hitting the opponent's hand right away and have his cards gone by turn 3 or 4. You might wind up with a card, a zombie, and then a useless enchantment and useless cards in your hand when your opponent plays everything. There's a very good chance that it'll never trigger.
Another thing people are not taking into consideration: unless its random discard, your opponent will usually get to decide which of the 3 things you get. Any time your opponent gets to choose, that makes the card MUCH worse.
He'll never willingly let you have a card. If he's got blockers and he's not scared of a zombie, he'll give you the useless zombie that'll sit around doing nothing. If zombie is bad for him, he'll give you 2 mana.
It isn't just cards like Bob and Bitterblossom that trigger it. It's also land drops like fetchlands, shocklands, painlands, and Horizon Canopy. Birthing Pod triggers it like mad. I believe BitWC will have to be carefully costed, as it makes late-game land drops not suck.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
I am highly suspicious that someone is stuffing the official votes - 1500 more people voted in the second poll down the page than in the first? Explanation
We're still guessing casting costs? Well I guess that revenge is going to cost B and bitcoin is going to cost 4BBBB because that fits with my attitude about the cards.
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lol make it win in the mtgS poll?
and now there's no gap
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
If the last poll is anything to go by, Blood is smoked.
God, Ill be sad if revenge tokes this. I'll be blazing mad.
I see what you did there... We should be buds.
goodness i want to see this(sarcasm)
a lot of people on this thread will be blazing mad, excluding me cuz i don't regret voting RoN
and TK-421, viperesque, arcadic, and Boros_archangel have yet to post here...
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
I'm not really seeing how it was broken, it was an enchantment with Night's Whisper, Murder, and something attached to it that then makes you lose the game if you haven't won. You have to run bounce with it to use it effectively or already be in a position to win in which case it's just win more.
WUR Geist Midrange WUR
Commander
W Nahiri's Celestial Foundry W
WB Orzhov Inquisition (Cleric Tribal) WB
WUBRG Progenitus's Prismatic Domain WUBRG
WURG Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Love You WURG
WUG Rafiq of the Many Auracrafting WUG
WRG Hazezon Tamar Overrun WRG
G Seton's Druid Ramp G
Except people are voting for RoN and its effect would be overcosted at 1 CMC.
Now apply that logic to the fact that some people here read the card wrong. The fact that some people here still think it's better to vote for a narrow card over the greater good. That some people are still convinced on here that it will be the bees knees...
I'm frankly expecting disappointment.
BitWC has so much potential. And that's even if it DID cost BBB (which i secretly hope it does). I think it could end up with a great name, some amazing art and ultimately be a card I would be proud to see years to come in future ymtc's.
RoN should have nothing to do with necromancy. I know it's pretty odd to argue specifics over made up concepts but frankly necromancy is the, based on various fantasy settings, practice of manipulating life force. Discard is thematically based in the realm of forgetfulness and insanity. A card that deals with revenge should in fact punish a player for doing something to you, not reward your own action against said person. Revenge of Necromancy feels thematically like oppressing your will on someone.
p.s. I decided to drop the arguments over power since frankly it's been beaten to death that RoN is a terrible corner case card, while BitWC is a superior card designed from a playability perspective. Instead I thought I would point out the fact that names aren't set and why that's a good thing at this point.
RoN is "versatile" the same way Dash Hopes is versatile.
Doubtful. Most of the voters are casual players.
It likely lost out because as soon as they read "lose the game", they recoiled in terror and clicked the other option.
I stepped out of a supernova...and so did you.
Yeah, this makes sense to me.
I really doubt people vote against a card because they perceive it as too powerful; in fact I think they would vote for it in that case. And I think it's wrong to say Consuming Contract would have to be overcosted. It's not a card you want to put down early unless you're deck's devoted to removing it before you die (in which case, you probably have a fun, but bad deck.)
EDIT: Oh man, it's tied! How exciting! I guess it's a good matchup.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
(W/B) Teysa, Orzhov Scion (W/B)
G Devoted G
(U/R) Scramblefun (U/R)
(W/U) Heh, Birbs (W/U)
--Hector Reid
My current decks!
http://tappedout.net/users/ThePhasewalker/
BitWC is so damn slow and essentially has THREE "if" clauses (creature/lifeloss/reinvestment of creature) before you can get any value out of the card - I really don't think people realize how slow the card is and can't image a deck that would run it more than a 1-of.
Bring on the stackable creature/card engine. Us Hymn to Tourach/Liliana of the Veil lovers are salivating at the mouth.....
No. They should not be if they want a competitive card. It's not just pox hating. As has been said many, many times before:
1) We have a basis of comparison to other cards that benefit when you make your opponent discard: Megrim, Liliana's Caress, Geth's Grimoire. None have been playable. Grimoire in particular arguably has a more powerful effect than this card.
2) RoN is bad in the early game. In good (competitive or good casual) decks, you want your black discard cheap and fast. You hit with Duress effects on the first turn, and then your Rise//Fall / Hymn / Verdict on turn 2. The whole point is to quickly strip the enemy of threats before they can resolve them, because your deck is full of cards that don't do anything to permanents on the battlefield. You are not typically going to want to waste and mana in your first few turns playing an enchantment that might eventually give your discard spells an upside, because you just gave up the opportunity to disrupt your opponent.
3) Discard-focused cards are terrible in the late game. Have you ever topdecked a duress in a suiblack deck on turn 7? Feels bad, man. This card is even worse than that; at least the duress might help you punch through a counterspell. RoN just does absolutely nothing while they top deck and cast each turn.
4) For a do-nothing card to be played, it better win the game or darn close to it once you combo out. There's not such an obvious combo here. Granted, IF you have RoN out, and IF the opponent has a full grip, and IF you then cast a Wheel effect, you're in damn good shape because you just drew 7 and have a bunch of mana and dudes to work with, maybe keep chaining into more stuff. But this is magical Christmas land. By the time you can resolve RoN and a wheel, your opponent probably has very few lands in his hand anyway so you're unlikely to be able to make an engine out of this.
Now, there are two things that would give me pause about RoN, neither of which I think are likely to happen: 1) they make it into a Leyline. Then it might be good because it gives your discard spells and upside without slowing you down. 2) they print a card that lets you search your opponent's library for some number of cards, then forces him or her to discard em. Then you have control over the modes.
Neither of which seems likely.
Very simply: experience. Discard-based decks are generally bad, and this card is not going to make discard decks good. Playable discard decks usually need to start hitting the opponent's hand right away and have his cards gone by turn 3 or 4. You might wind up with a card, a zombie, and then a useless enchantment and useless cards in your hand when your opponent plays everything. There's a very good chance that it'll never trigger.
Another thing people are not taking into consideration: unless its random discard, your opponent will usually get to decide which of the 3 things you get. Any time your opponent gets to choose, that makes the card MUCH worse.
He'll never willingly let you have a card. If he's got blockers and he's not scared of a zombie, he'll give you the useless zombie that'll sit around doing nothing. If zombie is bad for him, he'll give you 2 mana.
Crap I haven't even seen Geth's Grimoire at even kitchen table or commander games.
Unless they drastically under-cost Necromancer's Revenge the card won't do much.
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^^this^^
#BitWC
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