In which universe Thoughtseize would be an uncommon? I say it would be Mythic
There're a lot of Modern staples which many people will say would be Mythic. I say thoughtseize stays because it is not one of the super-staples such as Tarmogoyf. I'd say Dark Confidant would be Mythic as well
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Dark Confidant is pretty mythic to me. Draw a extra card per turn is pretty awesome. Look at Duskmantle Seer now.
Yeah, and staff of nin and bloodgift demon, underworld connections, oh wait. Bob is no way mythic. But he will probably be printed at such because he is expensive.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
In which universe Thoughtseize would be an uncommon? I say it would be Mythic
Possibly in the universe in which a lot of drugs are used. Thoughtseize could stay rare and only lose a small portion of its value (Maybe go back to the 35-40$ it was a few months ago) or it will be mythic and have no effect on the price and just stablize the value of them for the future.
Bob will be mythic and thoughtseize will prob stay at rare.
And RichardHaro is right, listen to him.
Still raises the question of if bob/tamo are worthy of being mythic.
Again snapcaster was just a rare so was that artifact thing forget its name. Thoughseize comes across as being a uncommon at most doesnt feel rare barely feels mythic. But again wizards doesnt want to hurt the secondary market so mythic BOBs and TAM for no one!
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Still raises the question of if bob/tamo are worthy of being mythic.
No it doesn't. This is a special set. Their mythic rules don't apply so trying to say are they worthy is pointless. They could bump kitchen finks up to mythic if they wanted.
No it doesn't. This is a special set. Their mythic rules don't apply so trying to say are they worthy is pointless. They could bump kitchen finks up to mythic if they wanted.
same arguement as they should just make all cards common cause rarity is pointless this is a special set. Please dont try to come across as so arrogant
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I agree those cards needs to come down in price. I strongly disagree their prices need to be crashed.
For MM rarities, secondary market price will simply determine rarity more than worthiness will.
Which Mythic Rarity was not suppose to be the TOP tournement playable cards. I understand that yes its a special set blah blah but the only reason for making tamogofy and bob at mythic rarity is so that they dont ruin the secondary market which is a bit hypocritical of wizards since they have stated before they dont pay attention to the secondary market.
Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards.
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but the only reason for making tamogofy and bob at mythic rarity is so that they dont ruin the secondary market which is a bit hypocritical of wizards since they have stated before they dont pay attention to the secondary market.
It's always been a naughty silly lie, but is feasible. You'd just be able to buy three or ten boosters if the product didn't have chase rares. Don't like the carrot on the horizon? Don't give them your money.
Still raises the question of if bob/tamo are worthy of being mythic.
Again snapcaster was just a rare so was that artifact thing forget its name. Thoughseize comes across as being a uncommon at most doesnt feel rare barely feels mythic. But again wizards doesnt want to hurt the secondary market so mythic BOBs and TAM for no one!
They make them mythic because of price reasons and making money. But making a discard spell mythic would be too stupid when they all should be uncommon max. But they can't just make thoughtseize uncommon, owners would QQ.
As much as I hope Thoughtseize goes down to uncommon it'll probably stay at rare. The card will definitely not be Mythic, though. Mythic will more than likely be Bob to fit right there with the Goyf.
They made Goyf mythic because they already said that MM wasnt designed to bring down second market prices. Goyf will stay a $100 card and WotC doesnt want that to change.
They make them mythic because of price reasons and making money. But making a discard spell mythic would be too stupid when they all should be uncommon max. But they can't just make thoughtseize uncommon, owners would QQ.
But the whole point of MM is to lower prices of modern staples plus other cards. Look at the shocks. Those were $20+, $80+ a play set which led to $150+ manabases and now they're reprinted enough to where anyone can get them.
I don't think STAPLES should be $240+ a play set. Someone new to modern wants to build a decent deck but can't because of that $240 they can't afford.
Thoughtseize would be fine at uncommon. Isn't that what is was intended for in the first place?
In the same way you can tell someone is from the XVIII century because he is arroused by ankles, you can tell someone is from USA because he feels nipples disturbing.
^I'm all for criticism against controlling supply of product via upgraded rarity and limited distribution, but downgrading rarities seems like a very reckless action.
They made Goyf mythic because they already said that MM wasnt designed to bring down second market prices. Goyf will stay a $100 card and WotC doesnt want that to change.
Yeah, this is win-win for them. Market a set on the strength of prohibitively expensive staples, make the expensive stuff mythic and limit distribution to appease the second market, and sell boosters to customers at almost a 100% premium.
I agree it's hypocritical, but I wouldn't believe one bit they aren't paying attention to it. I think what it means is that it won't stop them from doing something they really want to, but they have to want it first. Again, damaging consumer confidence is not high on their want list.
Point understood about not wanting to damage consumer confidence by overprinting value cards. As noted before WotC has said they don't pay attention to or care about the secondary market (and again we know that can't really be true).
But concerns about "damaging consumer confidence" go the other way too: WotC wants to support and promote Modern and have it be a healthy, viable format. Well it isn't, not with scarcity of certain premier cards and overpriced/overvalued cards.
So as a (potential) consumer for MtG Modern I want them to deliver the Modern format staples. And if WotC under-delivers on product volume on this, we know that's the indication, then many players will be left wanting and disappointed.
^I'm all for criticism against controlling supply of product via upgraded rarity and limited distribution, but downgrading rarities seems like a very reckless action.
Hardly. It's been done many times before.
Yeah, this is win-win for them. Market a set on the strength of prohibitively expensive staples, make the expensive stuff mythic and limit distribution to appease the second market, and sell boosters to customers at almost a 100% premium.
Smells like a winning formula, to me.
Not really. In the long run, if Modern becomes too expensive for most people, they'll lose business. That's why they want to control costs in Modern. They don't want prices to drop like a stone, but they do want them to be low enough for the price of Tarmogoyf et al. not to be a major barrier to entry in Modern--which it is right now.
Has it been done with cards as valuable as Thoughtseize, though? I know cards like Serra Angel and Sengir Vampire were downgraded, but not at the heights of their respective values, right? I shouldn't have left that detail out in the post.
In the long run, if Modern becomes too expensive for most people, they'll lose business. That's why they want to control costs in Modern. They don't want prices to drop like a stone, but they do want them to be low enough for the price of Tarmogoyf et al. not to be a major barrier to entry in Modern--which it is right now.
I don't know that they'll necessarily lose business; people could just continue playing Standard while the Modern base retains a loyal-but-niche following, similar to Legacy. Standard players would still benefit from Modern's existence, since Modern-relevant cards won't drop as much upon rotation and will have future value due to scarcity.
Either way, they're doing what they said they'd be doing - increasing the supply of Modern staples, but taking caution so as to not upset collectors and resellers. I have my doubts they'll push enough of certain cards onto the market to really affect prices, but I suppose we'll see in June. Tarmogoyf prices have grown 30% since the set's announcement, so unless Wizards is nearly doubling the supply of them I don't see how they'll be particularly affordable when the set comes out.
Thats a huge stretch goal and not based on any information from them. Do I think they'll do another modern masters eventually? Probably. Will it be next year? Probably not. I'd say give it another 3-5 years, and we'll see it again.
Or so I was about to post before I did a price check. Holy crap, Thoughtseize is fifty bucks. For a card nearly any black deck is going to want a playset of (if not maindeck then sideboard).
If it's printed at uncommon, it will be interesting to see what it does to the price. I presume that MM uncommons will average a little higher than normal sets due to the increased MSRP of the boosters.
Honestly, I don't see the point in trying to satisfy collectors AND players. Of course there need to be chase rares/mythics in each set, that way people will buy packs and WotC will make their money, but not making this a fairly large print run is literally ONLY helping collectors. This is a competitive card game, not the stock market. If people are collecting to collect, they'll be happy with lower prices. If they're collecting to make money, there are other/better ways to be doing that instead of driving up prices for people that will actually play the cards.
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Not really. In the long run, if Modern becomes too expensive for most people, they'll lose business. That's why they want to control costs in Modern. They don't want prices to drop like a stone, but they do want them to be low enough for the price of Tarmogoyf et al. not to be a major barrier to entry in Modern--which it is right now.
Tarmogoyf is used in one deck in Modern. Just one. I don't know how this card became such a boodey-man for everyone. There are many tier 1 decks that don't use him.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
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There're a lot of Modern staples which many people will say would be Mythic. I say thoughtseize stays because it is not one of the super-staples such as Tarmogoyf. I'd say Dark Confidant would be Mythic as well
Dark Confidant is pretty mythic to me. Draw a extra card per turn is pretty awesome. Look at Duskmantle Seer now.
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Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
If I recall properly (tell me if I'm wrong) Tarmogoyf and Bob are used in almost the same amount of deck types right?
Yeah, and staff of nin and bloodgift demon, underworld connections, oh wait. Bob is no way mythic. But he will probably be printed at such because he is expensive.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
And RichardHaro is right, listen to him.
Possibly in the universe in which a lot of drugs are used. Thoughtseize could stay rare and only lose a small portion of its value (Maybe go back to the 35-40$ it was a few months ago) or it will be mythic and have no effect on the price and just stablize the value of them for the future.
Still raises the question of if bob/tamo are worthy of being mythic.
Again snapcaster was just a rare so was that artifact thing forget its name. Thoughseize comes across as being a uncommon at most doesnt feel rare barely feels mythic. But again wizards doesnt want to hurt the secondary market so mythic BOBs and TAM for no one!
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
No it doesn't. This is a special set. Their mythic rules don't apply so trying to say are they worthy is pointless. They could bump kitchen finks up to mythic if they wanted.
same arguement as they should just make all cards common cause rarity is pointless this is a special set. Please dont try to come across as so arrogant
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Which Mythic Rarity was not suppose to be the TOP tournement playable cards. I understand that yes its a special set blah blah but the only reason for making tamogofy and bob at mythic rarity is so that they dont ruin the secondary market which is a bit hypocritical of wizards since they have stated before they dont pay attention to the secondary market.
Taking from Mark Rosewaters article when they announced mythic rares
BOB is hardly a epic-feeling creature its pure utility. Tamo is a generic green beating with a very power boost abilty thats hardly exciting.
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
It's always been a naughty silly lie, but is feasible. You'd just be able to buy three or ten boosters if the product didn't have chase rares. Don't like the carrot on the horizon? Don't give them your money.
They make them mythic because of price reasons and making money. But making a discard spell mythic would be too stupid when they all should be uncommon max. But they can't just make thoughtseize uncommon, owners would QQ.
But the whole point of MM is to lower prices of modern staples plus other cards. Look at the shocks. Those were $20+, $80+ a play set which led to $150+ manabases and now they're reprinted enough to where anyone can get them.
I don't think STAPLES should be $240+ a play set. Someone new to modern wants to build a decent deck but can't because of that $240 they can't afford.
Thoughtseize would be fine at uncommon. Isn't that what is was intended for in the first place?
Yeah, this is win-win for them. Market a set on the strength of prohibitively expensive staples, make the expensive stuff mythic and limit distribution to appease the second market, and sell boosters to customers at almost a 100% premium.
Smells like a winning formula, to me.
meat's Trade Corner
Point understood about not wanting to damage consumer confidence by overprinting value cards. As noted before WotC has said they don't pay attention to or care about the secondary market (and again we know that can't really be true).
But concerns about "damaging consumer confidence" go the other way too: WotC wants to support and promote Modern and have it be a healthy, viable format. Well it isn't, not with scarcity of certain premier cards and overpriced/overvalued cards.
So as a (potential) consumer for MtG Modern I want them to deliver the Modern format staples. And if WotC under-delivers on product volume on this, we know that's the indication, then many players will be left wanting and disappointed.
Hardly. It's been done many times before.
Not really. In the long run, if Modern becomes too expensive for most people, they'll lose business. That's why they want to control costs in Modern. They don't want prices to drop like a stone, but they do want them to be low enough for the price of Tarmogoyf et al. not to be a major barrier to entry in Modern--which it is right now.
Has it been done with cards as valuable as Thoughtseize, though? I know cards like Serra Angel and Sengir Vampire were downgraded, but not at the heights of their respective values, right? I shouldn't have left that detail out in the post.
I don't know that they'll necessarily lose business; people could just continue playing Standard while the Modern base retains a loyal-but-niche following, similar to Legacy. Standard players would still benefit from Modern's existence, since Modern-relevant cards won't drop as much upon rotation and will have future value due to scarcity.
Either way, they're doing what they said they'd be doing - increasing the supply of Modern staples, but taking caution so as to not upset collectors and resellers. I have my doubts they'll push enough of certain cards onto the market to really affect prices, but I suppose we'll see in June. Tarmogoyf prices have grown 30% since the set's announcement, so unless Wizards is nearly doubling the supply of them I don't see how they'll be particularly affordable when the set comes out.
meat's Trade Corner
Thats a huge stretch goal and not based on any information from them. Do I think they'll do another modern masters eventually? Probably. Will it be next year? Probably not. I'd say give it another 3-5 years, and we'll see it again.
Or so I was about to post before I did a price check. Holy crap, Thoughtseize is fifty bucks. For a card nearly any black deck is going to want a playset of (if not maindeck then sideboard).
If it's printed at uncommon, it will be interesting to see what it does to the price. I presume that MM uncommons will average a little higher than normal sets due to the increased MSRP of the boosters.
Definitely a power uncommon on par with Bloodbraid Elf and Eternal Witness, though...
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
Tarmogoyf is used in one deck in Modern. Just one. I don't know how this card became such a boodey-man for everyone. There are many tier 1 decks that don't use him.