Its 4 boxes per advanced store right? If I somehow get one, I would sell for 400-500 probably after a short wait.
[And it would sell right away, so I could probably see myself getting more]
Where did you pick 4 boxes/advanced store? That is.. extremely limited. 4 drafts per store?
The Commander packs are 4 packs/store, which is 'Extremely' limited. From what I've read this Modern Masters is just a Limited Run, so one print run and no more reprints (unlike other sets, which keep getting reprinted as required during their Print Run)
Timmy's also tend to value big creatures over many other things so I get what your saying, and I wasn't saying they were noobs, but it's easier to give them a bad trade if the bad trade involves a big spell or creature they find interesting, regardless it's $$value.
I think a lot of people that come to this site assume everyone that plays the game is like them (myself included likely). Not everyone enjoys trading.
Johnnies are equally capable of doing that, y'know. They'll trade for a bad card because it does something no other card does, and is therefore is the perfect piece for their combo deck. Or they just see a bad card they like, and decide to build a deck around it. Trust me, I've done both.
But even Spikes will trade for a bad card if they think they can break it. Trading for bad cards is hardly a Timmy-exclusive activity, and just because you trade for bad cards, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're letting yourself get ripped off.
Where did you pick 4 boxes/advanced store? That is.. extremely limited. 4 drafts per store?
The Commander packs are 4 packs/store, which is 'Extremely' limited. From what I've read this Modern Masters is just a Limited Run, so one print run and no more reprints (unlike other sets, which keep getting reprinted as required during their Print Run)
They have yet to define what the terms "limited" "extremely limited" "somewhat limited" etc.. are.
Wait till stores start reporting how much they are allowed to order of the set.
They left out the part where Yawgmoth is resurrected,but has been cleansed as Yawgmoth the Redeemed,and now must awaken Chromium so that Karn can fuse with him and create what can only be known as : the ultimate taco.
The phrase you used was "print the **** out of them."
That implies, to a reasonable person, that you want WotC to flood the market with reprints and depress secondary market prices to the point that no cards exceed an arbitrary limit.
The point I made was that WotC don't want to do that - indeed, explicitly acknowledged that your proposed strategy causes problems.
Whether WotC have formally promised never to reprint a specific card or not is beside the point. Do you really believe they'll ever reprint Skullclamp or Mind Twist again? Neither have ever appeared on any version of the Reserved List, but we won't see their like again. Variants yes, but not the card itself.
Magic is still marketed as a collectible - that was one of the reasons for introducing foils. Collectors (that is, people who buy Magic cards just to collect) do so in the expectation that the company won't wantonly destroy the value of a collection. Crashing a $100 dollar card to less than $10 certainly would be seen that way, and it would discourage people from collecting for collection's sake.
Mind Twist was in introduced in MTGO via Masters III. Skullclamp was reprinted in commander. Just thought I would point that out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Viva la revolution against raising MSRP.
Casual Players: We are the 99%. Buy local or go home.
I thought I read in the thread that it should be as limited as coldsnap was?
That would more than likely be accurate if they are stating that this is draftable, and that they are going to have a pro-tour surrounding the draft of this set from what I understand. You can't make it FTV limited or even fat pack limited if you plan on getting it out to the market in mass which is what they are trying to do in order to really support modern. It is nice that Wizards is finally showing the players what their plan was for modern reprints and lets hope that they continue on this route. I am not a fan at the cost of the packs, but overall if the pack value is about staples then I won't be disappointed about pulling anything in there if they do it right. With a normal 4 dollar I pretty much expect that opening it is for the rare and not the commons or uncommons in most cases.
My guess is that this is a testing phase product for more to come and I definitely like the basis so lets hope they get the print run correct.
It was in one of their articles, but I can confirm they do want it gone.
Link it or it didn't happen.
And in terms of reprinting the reserved list, its a terrible idea. There has been so much discussion proving that this is a bad idea it really isn't worth talking about. I would guess 100+ threads on this site alone. Even the most expensive cards on the list, (Lotus) are attainable to most. It takes TIME, and your copy may not be NM condition, but you CAN get a Lotus. Through skilled trading, winnings from skilled play, and a little luck anyone can acquire duals, p9, libraries, candelabra's, etc.
And if you feel that Legacy as an eternal format is too expensive? There is always Modern. WotC has made it clear that they want Modern to be the format of choice for the average Joe outside of standard.
I would urge you folks to consider however that in the end you want these cards to be expensive. Keeping cards expensive allows collectors into the game, it draws more players to the field. Buying a $4 pack in a bad economy is a tough sell, its a lot easier when you know (like in RtR) that on average you are going to pull close to $4 in value back out. Erase that value and you erase that safety. People WILL leave the game, in droves. And, the cards are not only expensive because of rarity, they are also expensive because of demand! And in the end, demand is a sign of a healthy, vibrant, growing meta. Something good for all players, even those who cannot afford their playset of revised duals.
Tiger
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yo Dawg, I heard you like Flashack, so we put Flashback on a Snapcaster so you can Flashback while you Snapcast...!
To me, it is like hunting with a bow and arrow, or hunting with a bazooka. One takes more skill, precision and understanding, the other is a bazooka.
Currently playing: EDH
GWBGhave, Guru of BeatdownsGWB BWRKaalia of the FacesmashBWR
It goes beyond this Op-Ed, though. Ben Bleiweiss was one of the 3 people invited at WOTC headquarters (along with Stephen Menendian, don't remember the third one) in order to discuss the future of the Reserved List, and he made it pretty clear he thought Magic would be better off with the Reserved List gone.
Which makes sense from SCG's point of view : without mentioning the crap that litters the RL, better access to actual Legacy staples (dual lands for example) would both increase interest in the format (thus increasing the price of staples not yet reprinted) and make it easier for SCG/other dealers to refill their inventory. You don't lose money when the content of your empty inventory gets devaluated.
It goes beyond this Op-Ed, though. Ben Bleiweiss was one of the 3 people invited at WOTC headquarters (along with Stephen Menendian, don't remember the third one) in order to discuss the future of the Reserved List, and he made it pretty clear he thought Magic would be better off with the Reserved List gone.
Which makes sense from SCG's point of view : without mentioning the crap that litters the RL, better access to actual Legacy staples (dual lands for example) would both increase interest in the format (thus increasing the price of staples not yet reprinted) and make it easier for SCG/other dealers to refill their inventory. You don't lose money when the content of your empty inventory gets devaluated.
You also do not lose money when the contents of your full inventory gets devalued.
You lose money when you sell the contents of your full inventory for less than the value you purchased them for. Which is something a lot of people upset that their cards may be devalued are ignoring. Yes, they have a card "worth" $50. But you can't spend that card. In order for you to actually lose money on the card you have to sell it. Most people aren't planning on selling the cards, thus they aren't losing money even if the card is devalued.
As for the actual "on topic" matter, I've been saying ever since the inception of the format that a modern masters edition was all but inevitable. The only way I can see this failing is if they short print it to the point where it doesn't help availability at all, and becomes super rare in and of itself. Sadly, the wording in the article implies that might just be the case...
All I want are fetchlands reprints. And maybe Second Sunrise at this point since I put off buying mine too long it seems (bought those damn Blooms 2 years ago :()
And in terms of reprinting the reserved list, its a terrible idea. There has been so much discussion proving that this is a bad idea it really isn't worth talking about. I would guess 100+ threads on this site alone. Even the most expensive cards on the list, (Lotus) are attainable to most. It takes TIME, and your copy may not be NM condition, but you CAN get a Lotus. Through skilled trading, winnings from skilled play, and a little luck anyone can acquire duals, p9, libraries, candelabra's, etc.
And if you feel that Legacy as an eternal format is too expensive? There is always Modern. WotC has made it clear that they want Modern to be the format of choice for the average Joe outside of standard.
I would urge you folks to consider however that in the end you want these cards to be expensive. Keeping cards expensive allows collectors into the game, it draws more players to the field. Buying a $4 pack in a bad economy is a tough sell, its a lot easier when you know (like in RtR) that on average you are going to pull close to $4 in value back out. Erase that value and you erase that safety. People WILL leave the game, in droves. And, the cards are not only expensive because of rarity, they are also expensive because of demand! And in the end, demand is a sign of a healthy, vibrant, growing meta. Something good for all players, even those who cannot afford their playset of revised duals.
Tiger
I am a die hard Vintage player who would love somebody to be able to play with. I have nobody because nobody around here has the cards. That is a fact. It is not up for debate.
As to whether or not that means the reserved list should be burned is a question that isn't easily answered. The truth is, nobody really knows what effect that would have on the game as there are so many possible outcomes.
1. Players start buying the reprints and flock to Vintage or Legacy, whichever their format of choice is and old time collectors, out of disgust because their cards are now worth a fraction of what they were, leave the game. In the end, do we end up with more players or fewer players? In addition, what does this do to the trust that the public has in the game itself knowing that their cards could be worthless the next day.
2. Same as above except old time players don't leave. They'd rather play the game and have cards not worth as much than to not be able to play as eventually, the old formats WILL die without reprints as there are only so many cards to go around.
3. Nothing changes. Nobody really cares about the reprints. Or very few care. They would rather play standard or modern because the older formats intimidate them. After all, they are harder to master because of the larger card pool. But, because of the reprints, values of old cards go down and this pisses off the collectors. Gradually, they sell their cards and leave the game.
4. No effect whatsoever.
Until we actually burn the reserved list, nobody can absolutely say with 100% certainty which one of the above scenarios will take place. We can make an educated guess but that's all it is.
Personally, I have a whole bunch of cards that are worthless to me because I have nobody to play with in my area. So reprinting them doesn't hurt me in the least because I'm not a collector. I'm a player.
But that's just me and I understand not everybody feels like I do.
But if I feel this way, there must be others.
And if there ARE others, then it's a question of how many of us there are that will determine if burning the reserve list is a good idea or not.
If it gets more people to play older eternal formats with few people quitting, it's a good idea. If not, it's a bad idea.
And nobody can be 100% sure, either way, which one it is.
Funny, but I tend to believe the existence of that article is completely independent of it being linked in this thread.
I think the article makes bettr sense than your post (which does more insisting than it does supporting your position). The reserved list should be revised, then we should have Legacy Masters!
I think all in all, there's maybe 500 people who want to keep the reserved list.
As an owner of original duals and many legacy staples, I would still love to see them reprinted. Legacy would benefit hugely from it.
Same here. (Although I've sold prob 3 x full play sets of duals in my time in and out and well before they exploded but have my cube commander with duals.)
Didn't Aaron forsythe say if there is a reserved list we can't support legacy?
If they don't allow legacy to get under control the format will go the way vintage has; except many cards will lose value as their not that rare compared to vintage. Force and wastelands are everywhere... Only valuable because legacy is a great format and scg supports it.
If it continues the only value of eternal cards will remain for a small legacy play pool with a flood of extras for casual formats using the new supply in abundance.
That's how I see it going... I'm excited for both formats; the future modern can grow very popular but legacy needs to be around.
Think of this ... Seriously.
Natural order, show and tell, lions eye diamond, wasteland
Some unplayable just in 2005 and $1 junk rares.. (Wasteland went up to 10)
Duals went out of extended and could be had for 10 bucks ...
Sneak attack, cradle ect ect 10$ cards
Everything has gone wild with all the little hoarder and magic hedge funders sittings on cardboard .. Go to magictraders or prob even on here u will see handfuls of people with 100 count of duals and staples in surplus.
Not good for the game and they're gonna feel the drop.
Just last year didn't underground seas (under 100$ and force (50$ range)take a hit when mental misstep put its ugly head in legacy?
People complained about their duals staying reserved when they were 10-20$ I'm sure they're really opposed now.
How can the pro-reserved listers not see that playing the cards is what caused the influx of said prices. A healthy format staying alive will keep a solid value for years to come.
Seriously $50 for show and tell! Think about it .. Sideboard in reanimate and only played main deck in 1 deck! Yes it's awesome deck but... Ahh I'm done.
Also I used to support power reserved list but think about that format if it were played! Power wouldn't go down remotely. Drains would explode and other odds would go up... All your lodestone golems would be $10 bucks if people had the stuff to play. Jace and bob would explode given they're still viable. Been awhile since I read up in vintage CAUSE ITS STALE AND SO IS LEGACY.
Correction legacy isn't nearly as stale but its almost just as elite!
PS WHAT THE HELL IS THAT LITTLE THUMBS DOWN IN UPPER LEFT CORNER I PUT IT THERE ON ACCIDENT. This is thumbs up! Lol
All I want are fetchlands reprints. And maybe Second Sunrise at this point since I put off buying mine too long it seems (bought those damn Blooms 2 years ago :()
I watched the announcement on Youtube, and Aaron Forsythe mentioned that the set will contain staples from modern that were printed up to Alara Reborn, because that's when the Magic playerbase really took off. Fetchlands being from Zendikar, I don't think we'll see reprints in this set.
However, I am thoroughly excited that Wizards is lowering the barrier to entry in eternal formats with reprints for Modern. I'm reasonably accomplished in Standard constructed, and better in limited, but eternal formats are a soft spot for me. I think it'll be fun to explore and get better at the game using the older cards. This is a great idea, and I'm ecstatic that this is being pushed.
Too bad it's going to be June of next year... It'd be nicer to have it in time for Modern PTQs this year.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -Albert Einstein
I want to play Modern, entry is a lot easier IMO than Legacy so this set really interests me but I do have a problem with the idea that this will be a limited production. I will probably only be able to get 1 box unfortunately due to the price.
And in terms of reprinting the reserved list, its a terrible idea. There has been so much discussion proving that this is a bad idea it really isn't worth talking about.
Yes, that's why a majority of people posting (even those with expensive Eternal collections, including myself) are in favor of abolishing the Reserved list completely. No one wants Wizards to CRASH the market. What they want is controlled, limited reintroduction of cards so the market can gradually expand over time, and prices can be kept in check.
Prices on dual lands should not be $45-$120, with for all the best ones over $80. That's just unhealthy for anyone who plays Eternal formats. I have about $1400 in dual lands alone, and I would be perfectly happy if Wizards carefully printed enough duals to bring prices down 15-20% so that more people can actually PLAY the format.
Revised duals aren't collectibles. They are not Beta U. Seas. A Beta U. Sea will retain value no matter how many they reprint because it's a true collectible- it's value is not really affected by duplications. Just like making a print of the Mona Lisa does absolutely nothing to the value of the original.
Buying a $4 pack in a bad economy is a tough sell, its a lot easier when you know (like in RtR) that on average you are going to pull close to $4 in value back out. Erase that value and you erase that safety.
There is no Reserved List for any modern cards, including RTR, so wtf are you talking about. People buy $4 packs regardless of the fact that at any time they could reprint these cards.
People WILL leave the game, in droves. And, the cards are not only expensive because of rarity, they are also expensive because of demand! And in the end, demand is a sign of a healthy, vibrant, growing meta.
Demand will inevitably flatten out when no new supply comes into the market and prices stay ridiculously high. Prices on Revised Duals have been almost flat for the last year and yet there has been no new supply to counteract demand. This means demand has basically peaked.
Yes, that's why a majority of people posting (even those with expensive Eternal collections, including myself) are in favor of abolishing the Reserved list completely. No one wants Wizards to CRASH the market. What they want is controlled, limited reintroduction of cards so the market can gradually expand over time, and prices can be kept in check.
Prices on dual lands should not be $45-$120, with for all the best ones over $80. That's just unhealthy for anyone who plays Eternal formats. I have about $1400 in dual lands alone, and I would be perfectly happy if Wizards carefully printed enough duals to bring prices down 15-20% so that more people can actually PLAY the format.
Revised duals aren't collectibles. They are not Beta U. Seas. A Beta U. Sea will retain value no matter how many they reprint because it's a true collectible- it's value is not really affected by duplications. Just like making a print of the Mona Lisa does absolutely nothing to the value of the original.
There is no Reserved List for any modern cards, including RTR, so wtf are you talking about. People buy $4 packs regardless of the fact that at any time they could reprint these cards.
Demand will inevitably flatten out when no new supply comes into the market and prices stay ridiculously high. Prices on Revised Duals have been almost flat for the last year and yet there has been no new supply to counteract demand. This means demand has basically peaked.
Gotta agree with what you're saying.
Folks, there are certain laws of economics and physics that can't be broken.
But I'm going to focus on the physics part of it for now.
If there are X cards in print and no new cards are going to be printed, then you can't have more than X cards. In fact, through loss, fire, or other forms of destruction, you can end up with X-Y cards.
If there are X people playing Legacy, the only way to get X+1 to play Legacy is for one of the original X to sell his cards. And if he does, then you still end up with X because X+1-1 still equals X.
In other words, as long as the reserved list is in place, Legacy cannot physically grow. You can't make something out of nothing.
The only exception would be the collector who has 20 sets of each dual land and sells them all one piece at a time to different people. In that case, YES, you can have more people actually playing Legacy.
But how many collectors are doing that? Isn't the reason these people are hoarding all these cards is so that someday, when they go way up in value, they can sell the whole collection to ONE person?
So as more and more cards are lost, damaged or whatever, fewer and fewer people will be able to play Legacy. And with the increase in prices, even if the cards are available, who is going to be able to afford them?
What's that you say? Save up and buy a little at a time?
And how long is THAT going to take?
In the meantime, they're STILL not playing so you STILL have fewer and fewer people in the format.
People say Legacy won't die. What proof do you have of this? Vintage died. Legacy isn't that far removed from Vintage. As long as dual lands and other staples are never reprinted, Legacy is just as much on the endangered list as Vintage.
Ultimately, what's going to happen is that all the people playing Legacy now, when there aren't enough of you left to justify keeping it going and WotC and everybody else drops support for it, you're going to come screaming and begging for the reserved list to be burned. Unless of course you only care about the value of your cards, which ironically won't be worth anything anyway when there is no place to play them.
At the time the reserved list was made, it was a necessary evil because of Chronicles. They almost killed the game. That combined with Fallen Empires and Homelands. People seem to forget that.
But we live in a different era now. Only a few few people REALLY care about the reserved list. Most of those who have these cards would actually rather, oh, I don't know, PLAY THEM?
Mark my words. The reserved list will ultimately one day (maybe not soon, but eventually) bring about the death of Legacy as it did Vintage.
And then you can all look at your worthless pieces of cardboard and realize what a waste all this stupidity was.
Where did you pick 4 boxes/advanced store? That is.. extremely limited. 4 drafts per store?
The Commander packs are 4 packs/store, which is 'Extremely' limited. From what I've read this Modern Masters is just a Limited Run, so one print run and no more reprints (unlike other sets, which keep getting reprinted as required during their Print Run)
Johnnies are equally capable of doing that, y'know. They'll trade for a bad card because it does something no other card does, and is therefore is the perfect piece for their combo deck. Or they just see a bad card they like, and decide to build a deck around it. Trust me, I've done both.
But even Spikes will trade for a bad card if they think they can break it. Trading for bad cards is hardly a Timmy-exclusive activity, and just because you trade for bad cards, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're letting yourself get ripped off.
They have yet to define what the terms "limited" "extremely limited" "somewhat limited" etc.. are.
Wait till stores start reporting how much they are allowed to order of the set.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
I thought I read in the thread that it should be as limited as coldsnap was?
Probably not all of these are going in, but I call dibs on at least 100 of them.
EDIT: Removed Valakut, thanks for the catch. I made this rather quick, so there's bound to be some mistakes.
Standard:
WBRG Aggro-Reanimator Humans GRBW
Modern:
UR Twinning RU
G Venus Fly Trap G
U Artifacts Aggro U
Legacy:
B Reanimator B
WU Stoneblade UW
EDH
WBGGhave, Guru of SporesGBW
URGRiku of the Two ReflectionsGRU
WUBRGScion of the Ur-DragonGRBUW
Casual
Far too many to list
Mind Twist was in introduced in MTGO via Masters III. Skullclamp was reprinted in commander. Just thought I would point that out.
That would more than likely be accurate if they are stating that this is draftable, and that they are going to have a pro-tour surrounding the draft of this set from what I understand. You can't make it FTV limited or even fat pack limited if you plan on getting it out to the market in mass which is what they are trying to do in order to really support modern. It is nice that Wizards is finally showing the players what their plan was for modern reprints and lets hope that they continue on this route. I am not a fan at the cost of the packs, but overall if the pack value is about staples then I won't be disappointed about pulling anything in there if they do it right. With a normal 4 dollar I pretty much expect that opening it is for the rare and not the commons or uncommons in most cases.
My guess is that this is a testing phase product for more to come and I definitely like the basis so lets hope they get the print run correct.
It was in one of their articles, but I can confirm they do want it gone.
Link it or it didn't happen.
And in terms of reprinting the reserved list, its a terrible idea. There has been so much discussion proving that this is a bad idea it really isn't worth talking about. I would guess 100+ threads on this site alone. Even the most expensive cards on the list, (Lotus) are attainable to most. It takes TIME, and your copy may not be NM condition, but you CAN get a Lotus. Through skilled trading, winnings from skilled play, and a little luck anyone can acquire duals, p9, libraries, candelabra's, etc.
And if you feel that Legacy as an eternal format is too expensive? There is always Modern. WotC has made it clear that they want Modern to be the format of choice for the average Joe outside of standard.
I would urge you folks to consider however that in the end you want these cards to be expensive. Keeping cards expensive allows collectors into the game, it draws more players to the field. Buying a $4 pack in a bad economy is a tough sell, its a lot easier when you know (like in RtR) that on average you are going to pull close to $4 in value back out. Erase that value and you erase that safety. People WILL leave the game, in droves. And, the cards are not only expensive because of rarity, they are also expensive because of demand! And in the end, demand is a sign of a healthy, vibrant, growing meta. Something good for all players, even those who cannot afford their playset of revised duals.
Tiger
Currently playing: EDH
GWBGhave, Guru of BeatdownsGWB
BWRKaalia of the FacesmashBWR
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/16737_Insider_Trading_Should_Wizards_Do_Away_With_The_Reserve_List.html
It goes beyond this Op-Ed, though. Ben Bleiweiss was one of the 3 people invited at WOTC headquarters (along with Stephen Menendian, don't remember the third one) in order to discuss the future of the Reserved List, and he made it pretty clear he thought Magic would be better off with the Reserved List gone.
Which makes sense from SCG's point of view : without mentioning the crap that litters the RL, better access to actual Legacy staples (dual lands for example) would both increase interest in the format (thus increasing the price of staples not yet reprinted) and make it easier for SCG/other dealers to refill their inventory. You don't lose money when the content of your empty inventory gets devaluated.
You also do not lose money when the contents of your full inventory gets devalued.
You lose money when you sell the contents of your full inventory for less than the value you purchased them for. Which is something a lot of people upset that their cards may be devalued are ignoring. Yes, they have a card "worth" $50. But you can't spend that card. In order for you to actually lose money on the card you have to sell it. Most people aren't planning on selling the cards, thus they aren't losing money even if the card is devalued.
As for the actual "on topic" matter, I've been saying ever since the inception of the format that a modern masters edition was all but inevitable. The only way I can see this failing is if they short print it to the point where it doesn't help availability at all, and becomes super rare in and of itself. Sadly, the wording in the article implies that might just be the case...
I am a die hard Vintage player who would love somebody to be able to play with. I have nobody because nobody around here has the cards. That is a fact. It is not up for debate.
As to whether or not that means the reserved list should be burned is a question that isn't easily answered. The truth is, nobody really knows what effect that would have on the game as there are so many possible outcomes.
1. Players start buying the reprints and flock to Vintage or Legacy, whichever their format of choice is and old time collectors, out of disgust because their cards are now worth a fraction of what they were, leave the game. In the end, do we end up with more players or fewer players? In addition, what does this do to the trust that the public has in the game itself knowing that their cards could be worthless the next day.
2. Same as above except old time players don't leave. They'd rather play the game and have cards not worth as much than to not be able to play as eventually, the old formats WILL die without reprints as there are only so many cards to go around.
3. Nothing changes. Nobody really cares about the reprints. Or very few care. They would rather play standard or modern because the older formats intimidate them. After all, they are harder to master because of the larger card pool. But, because of the reprints, values of old cards go down and this pisses off the collectors. Gradually, they sell their cards and leave the game.
4. No effect whatsoever.
Until we actually burn the reserved list, nobody can absolutely say with 100% certainty which one of the above scenarios will take place. We can make an educated guess but that's all it is.
Personally, I have a whole bunch of cards that are worthless to me because I have nobody to play with in my area. So reprinting them doesn't hurt me in the least because I'm not a collector. I'm a player.
But that's just me and I understand not everybody feels like I do.
But if I feel this way, there must be others.
And if there ARE others, then it's a question of how many of us there are that will determine if burning the reserve list is a good idea or not.
If it gets more people to play older eternal formats with few people quitting, it's a good idea. If not, it's a bad idea.
And nobody can be 100% sure, either way, which one it is.
Funny, but I tend to believe the existence of that article is completely independent of it being linked in this thread.
I think the article makes bettr sense than your post (which does more insisting than it does supporting your position). The reserved list should be revised, then we should have Legacy Masters!
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
There are also these posts by Ben Bleiweiss:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6538796&highlight=reserve#post6538796
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6482469&highlight=reserve#post6482469
URWTwin
XAffinity
Same here. (Although I've sold prob 3 x full play sets of duals in my time in and out and well before they exploded but have my cube commander with duals.)
Didn't Aaron forsythe say if there is a reserved list we can't support legacy?
If they don't allow legacy to get under control the format will go the way vintage has; except many cards will lose value as their not that rare compared to vintage. Force and wastelands are everywhere... Only valuable because legacy is a great format and scg supports it.
If it continues the only value of eternal cards will remain for a small legacy play pool with a flood of extras for casual formats using the new supply in abundance.
That's how I see it going... I'm excited for both formats; the future modern can grow very popular but legacy needs to be around.
Think of this ... Seriously.
Natural order, show and tell, lions eye diamond, wasteland
Some unplayable just in 2005 and $1 junk rares.. (Wasteland went up to 10)
Duals went out of extended and could be had for 10 bucks ...
Sneak attack, cradle ect ect 10$ cards
Everything has gone wild with all the little hoarder and magic hedge funders sittings on cardboard .. Go to magictraders or prob even on here u will see handfuls of people with 100 count of duals and staples in surplus.
Not good for the game and they're gonna feel the drop.
Just last year didn't underground seas (under 100$ and force (50$ range)take a hit when mental misstep put its ugly head in legacy?
People complained about their duals staying reserved when they were 10-20$ I'm sure they're really opposed now.
How can the pro-reserved listers not see that playing the cards is what caused the influx of said prices. A healthy format staying alive will keep a solid value for years to come.
Seriously $50 for show and tell! Think about it .. Sideboard in reanimate and only played main deck in 1 deck! Yes it's awesome deck but... Ahh I'm done.
Also I used to support power reserved list but think about that format if it were played! Power wouldn't go down remotely. Drains would explode and other odds would go up... All your lodestone golems would be $10 bucks if people had the stuff to play. Jace and bob would explode given they're still viable. Been awhile since I read up in vintage CAUSE ITS STALE AND SO IS LEGACY.
Correction legacy isn't nearly as stale but its almost just as elite!
PS WHAT THE HELL IS THAT LITTLE THUMBS DOWN IN UPPER LEFT CORNER I PUT IT THERE ON ACCIDENT. This is thumbs up! Lol
EDH/Commander: Karn silver golem (foiled), Narset combo, Maelstrom Wanderer random goodies, Nekusar grixis draw stuff, freyalise, Gissa Zombies!, marchesa obliterate,
Prosh just wins!,
--- Will WOTC just visit Cybertron already! ----
I watched the announcement on Youtube, and Aaron Forsythe mentioned that the set will contain staples from modern that were printed up to Alara Reborn, because that's when the Magic playerbase really took off. Fetchlands being from Zendikar, I don't think we'll see reprints in this set.
However, I am thoroughly excited that Wizards is lowering the barrier to entry in eternal formats with reprints for Modern. I'm reasonably accomplished in Standard constructed, and better in limited, but eternal formats are a soft spot for me. I think it'll be fun to explore and get better at the game using the older cards. This is a great idea, and I'm ecstatic that this is being pushed.
Too bad it's going to be June of next year... It'd be nicer to have it in time for Modern PTQs this year.
Yes, that's why a majority of people posting (even those with expensive Eternal collections, including myself) are in favor of abolishing the Reserved list completely. No one wants Wizards to CRASH the market. What they want is controlled, limited reintroduction of cards so the market can gradually expand over time, and prices can be kept in check.
Prices on dual lands should not be $45-$120, with for all the best ones over $80. That's just unhealthy for anyone who plays Eternal formats. I have about $1400 in dual lands alone, and I would be perfectly happy if Wizards carefully printed enough duals to bring prices down 15-20% so that more people can actually PLAY the format.
Revised duals aren't collectibles. They are not Beta U. Seas. A Beta U. Sea will retain value no matter how many they reprint because it's a true collectible- it's value is not really affected by duplications. Just like making a print of the Mona Lisa does absolutely nothing to the value of the original.
There is no Reserved List for any modern cards, including RTR, so wtf are you talking about. People buy $4 packs regardless of the fact that at any time they could reprint these cards.
Demand will inevitably flatten out when no new supply comes into the market and prices stay ridiculously high. Prices on Revised Duals have been almost flat for the last year and yet there has been no new supply to counteract demand. This means demand has basically peaked.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Gotta agree with what you're saying.
Folks, there are certain laws of economics and physics that can't be broken.
But I'm going to focus on the physics part of it for now.
If there are X cards in print and no new cards are going to be printed, then you can't have more than X cards. In fact, through loss, fire, or other forms of destruction, you can end up with X-Y cards.
If there are X people playing Legacy, the only way to get X+1 to play Legacy is for one of the original X to sell his cards. And if he does, then you still end up with X because X+1-1 still equals X.
In other words, as long as the reserved list is in place, Legacy cannot physically grow. You can't make something out of nothing.
The only exception would be the collector who has 20 sets of each dual land and sells them all one piece at a time to different people. In that case, YES, you can have more people actually playing Legacy.
But how many collectors are doing that? Isn't the reason these people are hoarding all these cards is so that someday, when they go way up in value, they can sell the whole collection to ONE person?
So as more and more cards are lost, damaged or whatever, fewer and fewer people will be able to play Legacy. And with the increase in prices, even if the cards are available, who is going to be able to afford them?
What's that you say? Save up and buy a little at a time?
And how long is THAT going to take?
In the meantime, they're STILL not playing so you STILL have fewer and fewer people in the format.
People say Legacy won't die. What proof do you have of this? Vintage died. Legacy isn't that far removed from Vintage. As long as dual lands and other staples are never reprinted, Legacy is just as much on the endangered list as Vintage.
Ultimately, what's going to happen is that all the people playing Legacy now, when there aren't enough of you left to justify keeping it going and WotC and everybody else drops support for it, you're going to come screaming and begging for the reserved list to be burned. Unless of course you only care about the value of your cards, which ironically won't be worth anything anyway when there is no place to play them.
At the time the reserved list was made, it was a necessary evil because of Chronicles. They almost killed the game. That combined with Fallen Empires and Homelands. People seem to forget that.
But we live in a different era now. Only a few few people REALLY care about the reserved list. Most of those who have these cards would actually rather, oh, I don't know, PLAY THEM?
Mark my words. The reserved list will ultimately one day (maybe not soon, but eventually) bring about the death of Legacy as it did Vintage.
And then you can all look at your worthless pieces of cardboard and realize what a waste all this stupidity was.