This and only one card has been spoiled so far...
I don't plan to pre-order until I know what I'm getting, then I'll see the price tag to know if it's worth it. I already own some staples so knowing this is MM1 of many more to come, I dont see how you can throw 200$ at a mystery box.
It could be anything. It could even be a boat!
Once my LGS starts allowing preorders, I'm pretty sure I'd be willing to throw $200 at it. With the guaranteed foil per pack and (very likely) good value per pack, I expect it to be worthwhile.
Which for some people, is enough. But I think we're really foolish thinking there won't be other goodies in there. Think of cards that likely CAN'T see the light of day in reprinted form otherwise, like Bloodbraid Elf or even Progenitus...
This entire set is reprints. They really don't have a lot to screw up here unless they already plan to do MM2 and use some things there to even it out.
Which for some people, is enough. But I think we're really foolish thinking there won't be other goodies in there. Think of cards that likely CAN'T see the light of day in reprinted form otherwise, like Bloodbraid Elf or even Progenitus...
This entire set is reprints. They really don't have a lot to screw up here unless they already plan to do MM2 and use some things there to even it out.
I think its funny the two examples you chosen have both been reprinted. Progenitus in a FTV and Bloodbraid elf as both a promo and in one of those summer multiplayer variant starter decks (I think commander).
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Looking at the price increase for modern staples, across the board, I'd say it already has. To think I just traded off my Thoughtseizes 2 weeks ago hoping to pick them up cheaper in 6 months
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I always thought Farscape was about Phillip Fry finding himself on a spaceship with Delenn, Ivanova, Worf, and an unholy cross between ALF and Zachary Smith.
Modern Masters might be the only chance Wizards has to reasonably reprint the Zendikar fetches. I know Zendikar is super-recent, but with the rise of the fetches in modern and their now outrageously high prices, combined with the fact that Wizards doesn't like to print realm-specific cards outside that realm (i.e. we won't see Zendikar fetches in a block unless we return to Zendikar, also unlikely) equals a reasonable chance that we'll see the fetches in MM.
Zendikar fetches will not be in Modern Masters; it's already been stated that only cards from Alara backward are eligible.
Also, the Zendikar fetches are in no way Zendikar specific, any more than the shocklands are Ravnica specific. Arid Mesas, Misty Rainforests, and Marsh Flats occur on numerous worlds, presumably.
I would be absolutely shocked if these sell for less than $10 a pack.
I expect Modern to explode when this comes out, I'd had close to 20 people tel me they were waiting for this to come out to jump into modern.
If these are $10 per pack, doesn't that ENTIRELY defeat the purpose of this whole set? (if the purpose is to make expensive Modern staples available to the general public who didn't have a chance to get them when they were readily available?)
Seriously, if someone is paying $10 to crack a pack and opens a mid-price rare, some decent uncommons, (Bloodbraid Elf, Remand, whatever else) and a bunch of commons....they would be WAY better off just ordering singles online for the deck they wanna make.
I see this as nothing other than a tool to promote and hype the Modern format, and a cash grab. Assuming packs any more than $7.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by
the fire - I will become the flame." - Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
Wizards doesn't like to print realm-specific cards outside that realm (i.e. we won't see Zendikar fetches in a block unless we return to Zendikar, also unlikely)
Are Zendikar fetches really specific to the plane? Their names are highly generic, which suggests they were designed to be potential reprints in the future.
If these are $10 per pack, doesn't that ENTIRELY defeat the purpose of this whole set? (if the purpose is to make expensive Modern staples available to the general public who didn't have a chance to get them when they were readily available?)
Seriously, if someone is paying $10 to crack a pack and opens a mid-price rare, some decent uncommons, (Bloodbraid Elf, Remand, whatever else) and a bunch of commons....they would be WAY better off just ordering singles online for the deck they wanna make.
I see this as nothing other than a tool to promote and hype the Modern format, and a cash grab. Assuming packs any more than $7.
The MSRP is at 7 they can't stop a store from charging way beyond that though. I mean similar to stuff like Commander's Arsenal or From the Vault, stores charge 2-3x more then what the thing sells for at MSRP not wizards.
Lets see $100 gofy means one can open 12 packs before reaching the same price as it would take to buy 1 online. If packs are going for $8 which seems really unlikely Im most like gussing $6-7 for a pack.
I still have a really bad feeling about this "set" especially since its taking up my summer release spot for casual cards >.< (planechase shall be missed)
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Lets see $100 gofy means one can open 12 packs before reaching the same price as it would take to buy 1 online. If packs are going for $8 which seems really unlikely Im most like gussing $6-7 for a pack.
I still have a really bad feeling about this "set" especially since its taking up my summer release spot for casual cards >.< (planechase shall be missed)
Honestly, I have a bad feeling about this set, too. I remember the fiasco that was Commander's Arsenal and the insanely limited print run, and this product will actually have *good* cards in it. Printing very limited products does not make most consumers happy.
Well if you look at what Wizards said when they announced this, they said:
will be produced in very conservative quantities—this is a bit of an experiment for us, and we want to get it right; we will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there.
They have heard the backlash about Commander's Arsenal and the Helvault. They know they need to manage our expectations better this time. I suspect that as we get closer to the release of this thing, we'll know more about what they're going to do with it. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they print enough to run the Grand Prix, and for most stores to be able to run a Limited event or two, and that's about it. I doubt you'll be able to just buy a box (though I would *love* to be able to do so), and packs will sell for double digits. And they'll tell us beforehand to expect this.
Of course, if you would rather they just reprint everything in bulk and drop the bottom out of the secondary market, cause a virtual mass riot from collectors, and then institute a new Reserved List, then ... well ... I guess I'll just have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Have never before printed creature tokens been announced yet?
I haven't seen it anywhere
If you read this arctical, and the "Because of the limited print run, WotC will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there." statement is true, then this product is worthless.
If true Wizards has learned absolutely nothing and will stunt the growth of their new format.
We better hope that statement in the article is false or Wizards is pretty much saying they want us to play standard and standard only and do not intend to do much if anything to help Modern.
Prices on Modern staples are going to skyrocket even more than they are now.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
If you read this arctical, and the "Because of the limited print run, WotC will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there." statement is true, then this product is worthless.
If true Wizards has learned absolutely nothing and will stunt the growth of their new format.
We better hope that statement in the article is false or Wizards is pretty much saying they want us to play standard and standard only and do not intend to do much if anything to help Modern.
Prices on Modern staples are going to skyrocket even more than they are now.
Yuuuuup. This is the problem.
To those worried about limited supply, don't. This will not be the issue.
What will be the issue is that anything of any value will remain just as hard to get and just as expensive thanks to Wizards. Any rares included in MM that have worth will be bumped to mythic. Yes, you might crack a pack and get lucky, but overall the price on Modern staples is not meant to decrease thanks to this damn set.
You'll be able to get your packs of MM and draft. You just won't get any more bang for your buck than buying any other booster packs.
Pro Tip: Calculate the total money you would have spent cracking packs, playing draft, etc., then just buy the Modern cards you need to build your favorite Modern decks using that money. Better results. Same rule for Standrad, really. Does not apply if you like or enjoy drafting, natch.
Why do people think prices are going to go up? Generally speaking increasing the number of copies of a card in circulation will cause the price to drop, even if it doesn't crash. Modern Masters is an experiment intended to increase circulation without drastically altering the secondary market, but cards in it will almost certainly drop in price somewhat. I expect to see Tarmogoyf go from $100 to about $60-$80. Look at judge foils--they're also limited in print run but almost always affect the market to some degree.
Why do people think prices are going to go up? Generally speaking increasing the number of copies of a card in circulation will cause the price to drop, even if it doesn't crash. Modern Masters is an experiment intended to increase circulation without drastically altering the secondary market, but cards in it will almost certainly drop in price somewhat. I expect to see Tarmogoyf go from $100 to about $60-$80. Look at judge foils--they're also limited in print run but almost always affect the market to some degree.
Because with more Modern tournaments and FNM support, they are actively pushing the format. This will almost assuredly increase interest and player base more than the number of reprinted cards entering the marketplace. THUS increased prices. If it's only going to increase the number of cards by a small percentage, then cards will actually go up, not down.
Honestly anything less than 50% in increase over the amount of a single card out there probably won't lower the prices any at all. Doesn't sound like we are going to see even close to that percentage in increase.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Why do people think prices are going to go up? Generally speaking increasing the number of copies of a card in circulation will cause the price to drop, even if it doesn't crash. Modern Masters is an experiment intended to increase circulation without drastically altering the secondary market, but cards in it will almost certainly drop in price somewhat. I expect to see Tarmogoyf go from $100 to about $60-$80. Look at judge foils--they're also limited in print run but almost always affect the market to some degree.
I doubt goyf is going to drop that much, at the boosters current price it will cost $840 to open one. In order for goyfs price to drop 20% those 120 boosters will have to have an average over $1050 worth of cards(probably more since goyf is mythic).
It's more likely that the value of those boosters will be closer to $950, that was people will still buy them and many cards will keep their high value so then there will be plenty of demand for modern masters 2.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Has wizards said if they are going to be releasing more previews for this, or are they just going to start in like late june?
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Dear kbx41,
You have received a warning at MTG Salvation Forums.
Reason:
-------
Flaming or Other Forms of Misbehavior
Saying that you sometimes wish people (in this case the implication is the staff) would fall down a well and get AIDS is hardly appropriate for the forum.
Honestly, I have a bad feeling about this set, too. I remember the fiasco that was Commander's Arsenal and the insanely limited print run, and this product will actually have *good* cards in it. Printing very limited products does not make most consumers happy.
In no way did they say this set was going to be a very limited print run like arsenal. They said it would be printed less than a regular set (IE not printed for 2 years). People who fear monger about it are just going to give yourself aneurisms over it. The set will more than likely have multiple print runs, and be available for a small period of time (IE over the summer and probly through the fall). In no way is this going to be a store only gets 4 boxes as it was intended to be drafted. Drafting consumes a lot of packs so while it is a "limited" production run it is not going to be an untouchable production run.
In no way did they say this set was going to be a very limited print run like arsenal. They said it would be printed less than a regular set (IE not printed for 2 years). People who fear monger about it are just going to give yourself aneurisms over it. The set will more than likely have multiple print runs, and be available for a small period of time (IE over the summer and probly through the fall). In no way is this going to be a store only gets 4 boxes as it was intended to be drafted. Drafting consumes a lot of packs so while it is a "limited" production run it is not going to be an untouchable production run.
"WotC has set a conservative print for Modern Masters, which is designed as a limited set and will not be Standard legal. Because of the limited print run, WotC will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there."
That tells me that it's not going to be as you described. Also, standard legal sets are never in print for 2 years. They see 1-3 print runs then go out of print (RTR was a different beast of course).
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
"WotC has set a conservative print for Modern Masters, which is designed as a limited set and will not be Standard legal. Because of the limited print run, WotC will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there."
That tells me that it's not going to be as you described. Also, standard legal sets are never in print for 2 years. They see 1-3 print runs then go out of print (RTR was a different beast of course).
Like From the Vault, Commander's Arsenal was intentionally produced in small quantities so as to be a collectible. Unfortunately, those quantities were likely too small. It's cool to excite your customers, but not cool to frustrate them. We took this reaction into account when finalizing the print size for Modern Masters; we have no interest in a repeat performance.
I would say, expect it to be equal to a "first print run" of a typical set. Meaning once your shop sells out in the first week, it'll be gone, but there will be enough product for stores to be able to draft once or twice and maybe sell a box to people at a "limit 1" cap. Remember this set is being supported by a Sealed Deck Pro Tour event. If this set was as limited as Arsenal, they'd need to use it all up for that one weekend alone.
"WotC has set a conservative print for Modern Masters, which is designed as a limited set and will not be Standard legal. Because of the limited print run, WotC will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there."
That tells me that it's not going to be as you described. Also, standard legal sets are never in print for 2 years. They see 1-3 print runs then go out of print (RTR was a different beast of course).
"A fraction" can be pretty significant. 3/4 or 7/8 are fractions--I think the point is that they aren't doubling the number of Goyfs out there. Although even doubling them wouldn't drop the price by 50% (demand will increase along with supply), a 75% increase in Goyfs could still drop the price to $80 or so.
It could be anything. It could even be a boat!
Once my LGS starts allowing preorders, I'm pretty sure I'd be willing to throw $200 at it. With the guaranteed foil per pack and (very likely) good value per pack, I expect it to be worthwhile.
Which for some people, is enough. But I think we're really foolish thinking there won't be other goodies in there. Think of cards that likely CAN'T see the light of day in reprinted form otherwise, like Bloodbraid Elf or even Progenitus...
This entire set is reprints. They really don't have a lot to screw up here unless they already plan to do MM2 and use some things there to even it out.
I think its funny the two examples you chosen have both been reprinted. Progenitus in a FTV and Bloodbraid elf as both a promo and in one of those summer multiplayer variant starter decks (I think commander).
Custom Set: Pokemon: Generation 1
My mind numbing DC-10 stack!
I was thinking the same thing.
I think the value will be there!
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Looking at the price increase for modern staples, across the board, I'd say it already has. To think I just traded off my Thoughtseizes 2 weeks ago hoping to pick them up cheaper in 6 months
I hope so.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Also, the Zendikar fetches are in no way Zendikar specific, any more than the shocklands are Ravnica specific. Arid Mesas, Misty Rainforests, and Marsh Flats occur on numerous worlds, presumably.
Standard: W/R Aggro
If these are $10 per pack, doesn't that ENTIRELY defeat the purpose of this whole set? (if the purpose is to make expensive Modern staples available to the general public who didn't have a chance to get them when they were readily available?)
Seriously, if someone is paying $10 to crack a pack and opens a mid-price rare, some decent uncommons, (Bloodbraid Elf, Remand, whatever else) and a bunch of commons....they would be WAY better off just ordering singles online for the deck they wanna make.
I see this as nothing other than a tool to promote and hype the Modern format, and a cash grab. Assuming packs any more than $7.
the fire - I will become the flame." - Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
The MSRP is at 7 they can't stop a store from charging way beyond that though. I mean similar to stuff like Commander's Arsenal or From the Vault, stores charge 2-3x more then what the thing sells for at MSRP not wizards.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Lets see $100 gofy means one can open 12 packs before reaching the same price as it would take to buy 1 online. If packs are going for $8 which seems really unlikely Im most like gussing $6-7 for a pack.
I still have a really bad feeling about this "set" especially since its taking up my summer release spot for casual cards >.< (planechase shall be missed)
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Honestly, I have a bad feeling about this set, too. I remember the fiasco that was Commander's Arsenal and the insanely limited print run, and this product will actually have *good* cards in it. Printing very limited products does not make most consumers happy.
They have heard the backlash about Commander's Arsenal and the Helvault. They know they need to manage our expectations better this time. I suspect that as we get closer to the release of this thing, we'll know more about what they're going to do with it. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they print enough to run the Grand Prix, and for most stores to be able to run a Limited event or two, and that's about it. I doubt you'll be able to just buy a box (though I would *love* to be able to do so), and packs will sell for double digits. And they'll tell us beforehand to expect this.
Of course, if you would rather they just reprint everything in bulk and drop the bottom out of the secondary market, cause a virtual mass riot from collectors, and then institute a new Reserved List, then ... well ... I guess I'll just have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
http://icv2.com/articles/news/24862.html
Have never before printed creature tokens been announced yet?
I haven't seen it anywhere
If you read this arctical, and the "Because of the limited print run, WotC will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there." statement is true, then this product is worthless.
If true Wizards has learned absolutely nothing and will stunt the growth of their new format.
We better hope that statement in the article is false or Wizards is pretty much saying they want us to play standard and standard only and do not intend to do much if anything to help Modern.
Prices on Modern staples are going to skyrocket even more than they are now.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Yuuuuup. This is the problem.
To those worried about limited supply, don't. This will not be the issue.
What will be the issue is that anything of any value will remain just as hard to get and just as expensive thanks to Wizards. Any rares included in MM that have worth will be bumped to mythic. Yes, you might crack a pack and get lucky, but overall the price on Modern staples is not meant to decrease thanks to this damn set.
You'll be able to get your packs of MM and draft. You just won't get any more bang for your buck than buying any other booster packs.
Pro Tip: Calculate the total money you would have spent cracking packs, playing draft, etc., then just buy the Modern cards you need to build your favorite Modern decks using that money. Better results. Same rule for Standrad, really. Does not apply if you like or enjoy drafting, natch.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Standard: W/R Aggro
Because with more Modern tournaments and FNM support, they are actively pushing the format. This will almost assuredly increase interest and player base more than the number of reprinted cards entering the marketplace. THUS increased prices. If it's only going to increase the number of cards by a small percentage, then cards will actually go up, not down.
Honestly anything less than 50% in increase over the amount of a single card out there probably won't lower the prices any at all. Doesn't sound like we are going to see even close to that percentage in increase.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I doubt goyf is going to drop that much, at the boosters current price it will cost $840 to open one. In order for goyfs price to drop 20% those 120 boosters will have to have an average over $1050 worth of cards(probably more since goyf is mythic).
It's more likely that the value of those boosters will be closer to $950, that was people will still buy them and many cards will keep their high value so then there will be plenty of demand for modern masters 2.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Dear kbx41,
You have received a warning at MTG Salvation Forums.
Reason:
-------
Flaming or Other Forms of Misbehavior
Saying that you sometimes wish people (in this case the implication is the staff) would fall down a well and get AIDS is hardly appropriate for the forum.
I have 28 different EDH decks
In no way did they say this set was going to be a very limited print run like arsenal. They said it would be printed less than a regular set (IE not printed for 2 years). People who fear monger about it are just going to give yourself aneurisms over it. The set will more than likely have multiple print runs, and be available for a small period of time (IE over the summer and probly through the fall). In no way is this going to be a store only gets 4 boxes as it was intended to be drafted. Drafting consumes a lot of packs so while it is a "limited" production run it is not going to be an untouchable production run.
"WotC has set a conservative print for Modern Masters, which is designed as a limited set and will not be Standard legal. Because of the limited print run, WotC will not be increasing the quantity of any card in circulation by more than a fraction of what is already out there."
That tells me that it's not going to be as you described. Also, standard legal sets are never in print for 2 years. They see 1-3 print runs then go out of print (RTR was a different beast of course).
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
They've also come public and said that they learned a lesson from Arsenal and MM would have a wider print run than that.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/228b
Like From the Vault, Commander's Arsenal was intentionally produced in small quantities so as to be a collectible. Unfortunately, those quantities were likely too small. It's cool to excite your customers, but not cool to frustrate them.
We took this reaction into account when finalizing the print size for Modern Masters; we have no interest in a repeat performance.
I would say, expect it to be equal to a "first print run" of a typical set. Meaning once your shop sells out in the first week, it'll be gone, but there will be enough product for stores to be able to draft once or twice and maybe sell a box to people at a "limit 1" cap. Remember this set is being supported by a Sealed Deck Pro Tour event. If this set was as limited as Arsenal, they'd need to use it all up for that one weekend alone.
"A fraction" can be pretty significant. 3/4 or 7/8 are fractions--I think the point is that they aren't doubling the number of Goyfs out there. Although even doubling them wouldn't drop the price by 50% (demand will increase along with supply), a 75% increase in Goyfs could still drop the price to $80 or so.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Alexis Park Hotel. It is a little off the strip. I stayed there when they had a Grand Prix about 10 years ago. It was nice.