While the deck probably needs a lot of tweaking, it is very fast and the creatures are very resilent, the problem is that both Voice and Strangleroot is weak to Pillar of Flame. This card is available to Naya Blitz/RDW/Gruul Aggro, Jund, Aristocrats, UWR control/midrange. The matchup against junk rites is fairly even as they really don't care about voice and just exile it with Angel of Serenity or trample over it with Craterhoof Behemoth, but struggle against rancor. Esper will probably use detention sphere, but this is a lot slower and can be countered or simic charmed whenever Voice player goes first. If that happens Esper has most likely lost as supreme verdict does very little to this deck.
Without Pillar of Flame the deck demolished Jund in 5/5 test games when I played without sideboards, but Jund won the next 3/5 after I used 4 pillars instead of Dreadbore and Tragic Slip. Obviously needs a lot of testing, but I can see that if people don't run pillars in the main/sideboard, Voice is going to be a real force. But with the current meta, pillar will be very easy to implement in most decks and as long as voice is in a deck with strangleroot, it will be incredibly weak to that card. Simic Charm and counterspells help to cover the weakness slightly, but if opponent sits with a pillar on opening hand the game becomes a lot more difficult.
I doubt Voice will be dominating, but might steal some tournament wins in metagames that don't run the right answers.
Barring the not-a-human part and given you have ANY other creature on the board, Voice is a strictly better Loyal Cathar, a card that was decent in Standard for its first couple of months. Add the fact that Azorius Charm is suddenly a much worse card against your deck and that it even trades very favorably against aggro makes this an incredibly solid card, possibly even for the main deck.
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Barring the not-a-human part and given you have ANY other creature on the board, Voice is a strictly better Loyal Cathar, a card that was decent in Standard for its first couple of months. Add the fact that Azorius Charm is suddenly a much worse card against your deck and that it even trades very favorably against aggro makes this an incredibly solid card, possibly even for the main deck.
Not strictly better, since VoR's token is a 1/1 without any support, but it's certainly better in every other regard. In tandem with other removal resilient creatures like Strangleroot Geist, Lotleth Troll, and really anything that's hard to get off the board or provides some form of card advantage, it's crazy good. IMO the $20 price tag is well merited when you consider how many decks (future metas, current metas, modern, maybe legacy) it could do well in. The mythic rarity makes a difference, too.
I don't understand why some people don't get VoR. It prevents mid-combat tricks (except Gore Clan) like Azorius Charm or Restoration Angel, as well as turning off end-of-turn shenanigans like Think Twice. It's also a value 2/2 that can replace itself with a 1/1 or better unless there is a Pillar. It is solid and helps g/w/x strategies combat tough cards to deal with.
Yer kidding, right? I don't even know how to respond to this vitriol.
WotC prints a card, or multiple cards, that are powerful. Powerful enough to reshape how the game plays for the format. Then they decide to put that new power in it's place, because the game can't just sit in the same format forever.
So they print something that on its own makes this older decktype's life hell. That if you have the colors for it, main or siding this card will undo whatever huge edge the past card had.
Voice of Resurgence is such a card. It's very powerful to look at until the format shifts away from what it used to be. It isn't a build around, it isn't going to make GW a top tier deck (other cards in the set, however... might) it'll just make certain decks in Standard upset.
It isn't a bad card, it isn't a good card, it's a good card for right now.
I don't understand why some people don't get VoR. It prevents mid-combat tricks (except Gore Clan) like Azorius Charm or Restoration Angel, as well as turning off end-of-turn shenanigans like Think Twice. It's also a value 2/2 that can replace itself with a 1/1 or better unless there is a Pillar. It is solid and helps g/w/x strategies combat tough cards to deal with.
cause just another one of those must die targets for control to rush an early sweeper or spot removal.
There is so many hate cards against control these days we've became jaded and just don't give a ****. Ever since making a COLOR FIXING LAND that also HOSES COUNTERS we just don't give a **** about hate cards anymore. They're cute and quait and aren't going to do jack **** against ramped up thragtusk and Spinx loops. Voice hoses tempo decks the hardest which are already pretty dead.
1.- Do I have to name the half I want to have the discount, or calling the whole card makes the discount to the 2 parts?
2.- Do the discount apply if I fuse? If that's the way, do I get 4 mana discount, or only one of the halves?
While I agree with you on more than one point, having to play creatures in order to be competitive is most definitely not healthy. Also if I remember correctly Alara-Zendikar standard was a hideous format, because the only deck was Jund. That passed as midrange rather than aggro, but still. Things were so bad, it lead to the printing of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named and the era of UW Stark control and we can still feel the consequences of that...
I like the bit where it's "most definitely not healthy." Can you provide any proof of this? It's an extreme minority who holds this viewpoint that having to play even one creature means the game is automatically doing poorly, and I have yet to see any good reason as to why this should be. None of them ever cite anything like tournament attendance records, sales statistics, or general player input.
Possibly because all these things indicate precisely the opposite. If you absolutely want to play creatureless, find a fast combo deck that lets you do so. So far as aggro and control, the game is much better off if they're both playing creatures. But then combo is non-interactive anyhow. I guess it's a little weird that a chiefly social game is improved by having the players interact. The only arguments I ever hear as to why the game should not support the use of creatures as a mainstay are either biased personal accounts, or vague complaints that using creatures makes the game feel like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh; nevermind that those are the pale knock-offs, and Mgic was using creatures first.
Also, Jund was not the only deck of that era. Not even remotely close. It was the most popular deck, and it took up an unhealthy portion of the metagame, but that was nothing, nothing, NOTHING compared to pre-ban Ravager Affinity, or the mess that was Tolarian Stroke. I don't know where you get your Magic history from, but it's clearly not the right place.
I'd wait for the official rulings to hit on how SplitFuse works in this case. But as far as I understand when you name a Split card you name both halves.
On another note instants and sorceries are much less interactive then people make them out to be. Point in case - every control match-up ever: I tap my lands and counter your threats, you tap your lands and counter my threats. Rinse and repeat until one of us runs out of counters or someone pulls something you can't afford to counter. Sweepers only makes things worse because nobody wants to drop creatures and run into a Verdict or Terminus, so we keep stalling each other. In the opposite case scenario neither casts anything because nobody wants to lose their oh so precious spells. So we keep dropping our lands until one of us finds a Drownyard, has to discard or resolves some kind of discard (Rakdos's Return).
Having a good balance of creatures, sorceries and instants leads to more decision making (rather than the always-counter-or-cantrip algorithms), more interaction both on and off the battlefield, more mechanics and overall more interesting match-ups. But really, who wants to play a three dimensional game with so many card types. Give us instants and sorceries over artifacts, enchantments, creatures, and planeswalkers any day.
All I'm saying is that there's two sides to the argument. I'm not suggesting the game is in a better or worse place now than at some point in the previous years, but it's easy for someone to say that spells have been over-emphasized for a long time, just as now creatures seem to be on the "upswing."
That's entirely in your head. All I did was ask for proof.
I only started playing standard around tenth edition and I had a period before that when I tried to play the eternals on MWS. So I am not closely familiar with earlier standard formats and I have seen the ugliness of 'have force of will or lose on turn 2', that is legacy.
Your estimation of Legacy is quite grossly incorrect.
I'm also far from the thought you don't need to play any creatures. However being forced to play a bunch of creatures and not even having the choice of which they are is just as bad as being forced to play FoW.
I don't see where this attitude is coming from. There are many viable creatures in every format. The only possible way I can see you coming to this conclusion is if you think netdecks are the only way to play.
In fact when Esper Control decks consistently splash green for a single creature this is an obvious sign there's something wrong with it. Much like Bloodbraid Elf and JtMS the only clean way of dealing with Thragtusk is playing one yourself. Of course you can counter it, but that's what we have Cavern for. You can also keep it tapped with Tamiyo, but then you run into Restoration Angel.
I make no apologies for either Thragtusk or Tarmogoyf. There are myriad ways to deal with both. Any Pacifism effect ends Thrag without the token, and Tarmo has no protection from anything, least of all Abrupt Decay. If they're trying to bounce Thrag for tokens, that's your cue to exile. Countermeasures exist, whether or not they're being used.
Bottom line is every competitive deck in T2 other than RDW variants runs Thragtusk, usually combined with Resto Angel and AoS. You can't possibly believe this is good.
There are answers to both. It is not my fault if people either choose not to run them or can't find alternate means of dealing with them. Although they're fairly simple answers in both cases. Of course I only read about Standard and am familiar with the card pool. I have no use for such a limited format.
On another note creatures are much less interactive then people make them out to be. Point in case - every aggro match-up ever: I tap my creatures and burn your face, you tap your creatures and burn my face. Rinse and repeat until one of us dies or someone pulls something you can't afford to attack into. Bloodrush only makes things worse because nobody wants to block and run into a Ghor-Clan Rampager, so we keep hitting each other.
Then you need to learn to play the game psychologically and bluff/call bluffs. Combat tricks have always been a part of the game. This is an excuse, and a bad one at that.
In the opposite case scenario neither attacks because nobody wants to lose their oh so precious creatures.
People playing poorly is not the fault of the cards.
So we keep building our armies until one of us finds an opening or a flier, overruns the other or resolves some kind of one sided sweeper (enter AoS).
Or, as mentioned, bluffing. It happens at top tables. There's a reason for that.
Having a good balance of creatures, sorceries and instants leads to more decision making (rather than the always-play-largest-dude algorithms), more interaction both on and off the stack, more mechanics and overall more interesting match-ups.
I do not dispute this. I said creatures are healthy and necessary and should be a part of every non-combo deck. I never said how many.
Old Superfriends, Battle of Wits (yes, Battle of Wits) and tap-out Control (which was more midrange than control) come to mind. But really, who wants to play a three dimensional game with so many card types. Give us creatures and lands over artifacts, enchantments, sorceries, instants and planeswalkers any day.
Now you're just being ridiculous. Never did I at any point claim we should only be playing creatures and lands, neither did anyone else. If you're going to debate this, please try to let me be able to take you seriously in the future, else you waste the time of both of us. Or I'll put you on my block list and you'll only waste your own time.
Every card type is a healthy part of the game. Creatures and lands should be a part of every deck, and sorceries/instants too. Not every deck needs artefacts or enchantments or Planeswalkers, but they should be available for decks that desire them.
I maintain my position that it's healthier that the game be arranged to that every deck is running creatures. It's always ironic for me to see the control players who complain about how aggro is too strong or reliance on creatures is ruining the game. Those selfsame creatures are what keep you from looking ridiculous maindecking 4x Supreme Verdict and 2x Terminus. I played MBC during OTJ and whether or not to maindeck creature removal was a huge question because so many decks during that period didn't run creatures.
The game is much better off with everyone running at least 2-4+ critters, especially control players, who are the most apt to complain about this arrangement. I, as a control player, am most grateful for it.
The more I read VoR, the more I see how bad it kinda is. You can drop crusader of Odric the same turn. The only deck I can see benifiting from this card is naya blitz. Counsel is way awesome on the other hand, SB most likely but still
The more I read VoR, the more I see how bad it kinda is. You can drop crusader of Odric the same turn. The only deck I can see benifiting from this card is naya blitz. Counsel is way awesome on the other hand, SB most likely but still
I'm one of Voice of the Hose's biggest detractors but it's very far from a bad card
It's just getting a lot of hype for no good reason outside of being a hatebear at mythic
I'm one of Voice of the Hose's biggest detractors but it's very far from a bad card
It's just getting a lot of hype for no good reason outside of being a hatebear at mythic
Ok retract statement, it's not bad but it's no where near as good as its made out to be, aka overhyped. Say turn one mana dork turn two Stagtusk, instant speed removal. You have a 2/2 crap token lol. It grows but it's so meh
I believe the REAL reason this is mythic is because of the tokens. The tokens will all get bigger the more you have and there are certainly a number of ways to populate. a token creature that makes all the tokens bigger? PACKRAT. They didnt want another packrat fiasco, so they put this at mythic. Because unlike packrat, this doesnt have the discard draw back.
i dunno. Im a limited player, but if this was rare, i think it would just be another packrat.
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
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3xCloudfin Raptor
4xExperiment One
4xVoice of Resurgence
4xStrangleroot Geist
4xRancor
3xGeist of Saint Traft
2xCall of the Conclave
4xLoxodon Smiter
3xSimic Charm
2xSpell Rupture
2xSyncopate
2xAdvent of the Wurm
While the deck probably needs a lot of tweaking, it is very fast and the creatures are very resilent, the problem is that both Voice and Strangleroot is weak to Pillar of Flame. This card is available to Naya Blitz/RDW/Gruul Aggro, Jund, Aristocrats, UWR control/midrange. The matchup against junk rites is fairly even as they really don't care about voice and just exile it with Angel of Serenity or trample over it with Craterhoof Behemoth, but struggle against rancor. Esper will probably use detention sphere, but this is a lot slower and can be countered or simic charmed whenever Voice player goes first. If that happens Esper has most likely lost as supreme verdict does very little to this deck.
Without Pillar of Flame the deck demolished Jund in 5/5 test games when I played without sideboards, but Jund won the next 3/5 after I used 4 pillars instead of Dreadbore and Tragic Slip. Obviously needs a lot of testing, but I can see that if people don't run pillars in the main/sideboard, Voice is going to be a real force. But with the current meta, pillar will be very easy to implement in most decks and as long as voice is in a deck with strangleroot, it will be incredibly weak to that card. Simic Charm and counterspells help to cover the weakness slightly, but if opponent sits with a pillar on opening hand the game becomes a lot more difficult.
I doubt Voice will be dominating, but might steal some tournament wins in metagames that don't run the right answers.
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Not strictly better, since VoR's token is a 1/1 without any support, but it's certainly better in every other regard. In tandem with other removal resilient creatures like Strangleroot Geist, Lotleth Troll, and really anything that's hard to get off the board or provides some form of card advantage, it's crazy good. IMO the $20 price tag is well merited when you consider how many decks (future metas, current metas, modern, maybe legacy) it could do well in. The mythic rarity makes a difference, too.
1:Cycle of reprints
2:Theros will have an equipment subtheme (would make sense, Gods love giving us mortals neat toys).
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
Yer kidding, right? I don't even know how to respond to this vitriol.
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WotC prints a card, or multiple cards, that are powerful. Powerful enough to reshape how the game plays for the format. Then they decide to put that new power in it's place, because the game can't just sit in the same format forever.
So they print something that on its own makes this older decktype's life hell. That if you have the colors for it, main or siding this card will undo whatever huge edge the past card had.
Voice of Resurgence is such a card. It's very powerful to look at until the format shifts away from what it used to be. It isn't a build around, it isn't going to make GW a top tier deck (other cards in the set, however... might) it'll just make certain decks in Standard upset.
It isn't a bad card, it isn't a good card, it's a good card for right now.
cause just another one of those must die targets for control to rush an early sweeper or spot removal.
There is so many hate cards against control these days we've became jaded and just don't give a ****. Ever since making a COLOR FIXING LAND that also HOSES COUNTERS we just don't give a **** about hate cards anymore. They're cute and quait and aren't going to do jack **** against ramped up thragtusk and Spinx loops. Voice hoses tempo decks the hardest which are already pretty dead.
Spell 1 2GU// Spell 2 4WU
Sorcery // Sorcery
(FUSE)
1.- Do I have to name the half I want to have the discount, or calling the whole card makes the discount to the 2 parts?
2.- Do the discount apply if I fuse? If that's the way, do I get 4 mana discount, or only one of the halves?
Thank you so much
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I like the bit where it's "most definitely not healthy." Can you provide any proof of this? It's an extreme minority who holds this viewpoint that having to play even one creature means the game is automatically doing poorly, and I have yet to see any good reason as to why this should be. None of them ever cite anything like tournament attendance records, sales statistics, or general player input.
Possibly because all these things indicate precisely the opposite. If you absolutely want to play creatureless, find a fast combo deck that lets you do so. So far as aggro and control, the game is much better off if they're both playing creatures. But then combo is non-interactive anyhow. I guess it's a little weird that a chiefly social game is improved by having the players interact. The only arguments I ever hear as to why the game should not support the use of creatures as a mainstay are either biased personal accounts, or vague complaints that using creatures makes the game feel like Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh; nevermind that those are the pale knock-offs, and Mgic was using creatures first.
Also, Jund was not the only deck of that era. Not even remotely close. It was the most popular deck, and it took up an unhealthy portion of the metagame, but that was nothing, nothing, NOTHING compared to pre-ban Ravager Affinity, or the mess that was Tolarian Stroke. I don't know where you get your Magic history from, but it's clearly not the right place.
Context - was reponse to this.
Because Every Set is Terrible!
All I'm saying is that there's two sides to the argument. I'm not suggesting the game is in a better or worse place now than at some point in the previous years, but it's easy for someone to say that spells have been over-emphasized for a long time, just as now creatures seem to be on the "upswing."
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
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That's entirely in your head. All I did was ask for proof.
Your estimation of Legacy is quite grossly incorrect.
I don't see where this attitude is coming from. There are many viable creatures in every format. The only possible way I can see you coming to this conclusion is if you think netdecks are the only way to play.
I make no apologies for either Thragtusk or Tarmogoyf. There are myriad ways to deal with both. Any Pacifism effect ends Thrag without the token, and Tarmo has no protection from anything, least of all Abrupt Decay. If they're trying to bounce Thrag for tokens, that's your cue to exile. Countermeasures exist, whether or not they're being used.
There are answers to both. It is not my fault if people either choose not to run them or can't find alternate means of dealing with them. Although they're fairly simple answers in both cases. Of course I only read about Standard and am familiar with the card pool. I have no use for such a limited format.
Then you need to learn to play the game psychologically and bluff/call bluffs. Combat tricks have always been a part of the game. This is an excuse, and a bad one at that.
People playing poorly is not the fault of the cards.
Or, as mentioned, bluffing. It happens at top tables. There's a reason for that.
I do not dispute this. I said creatures are healthy and necessary and should be a part of every non-combo deck. I never said how many.
Now you're just being ridiculous. Never did I at any point claim we should only be playing creatures and lands, neither did anyone else. If you're going to debate this, please try to let me be able to take you seriously in the future, else you waste the time of both of us. Or I'll put you on my block list and you'll only waste your own time.
Every card type is a healthy part of the game. Creatures and lands should be a part of every deck, and sorceries/instants too. Not every deck needs artefacts or enchantments or Planeswalkers, but they should be available for decks that desire them.
I maintain my position that it's healthier that the game be arranged to that every deck is running creatures. It's always ironic for me to see the control players who complain about how aggro is too strong or reliance on creatures is ruining the game. Those selfsame creatures are what keep you from looking ridiculous maindecking 4x Supreme Verdict and 2x Terminus. I played MBC during OTJ and whether or not to maindeck creature removal was a huge question because so many decks during that period didn't run creatures.
The game is much better off with everyone running at least 2-4+ critters, especially control players, who are the most apt to complain about this arrangement. I, as a control player, am most grateful for it.
Context - was reponse to this.
Because Every Set is Terrible!
I'm one of Voice of the Hose's biggest detractors but it's very far from a bad card
It's just getting a lot of hype for no good reason outside of being a hatebear at mythic
Ok retract statement, it's not bad but it's no where near as good as its made out to be, aka overhyped. Say turn one mana dork turn two Stagtusk, instant speed removal. You have a 2/2 crap token lol. It grows but it's so meh
i dunno. Im a limited player, but if this was rare, i think it would just be another packrat.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?