I don't see how anyone thinks this is not very good in limited. It's both a bomb and removal best case, and worst case it's removal plus a one turn blocker. I think it probably won't see much constructed play, although it seems like something Conley would try to break.
I think everyone is overlooking something very important about the spoiling of this card:
The keyword for the coreset, if this indeed a spoiler for it and not only DotP, could be Threshold.
I saw this card, and I thought that perhaps one of the keyword (particularly for Black/Red/ Maybe Green) could very well be unearth.
As far as this card being bad, I don't really agree. Yes, I don't think it will change the face of standard, but who knows, MBC could make a come back. I think we need to see more of Dragon's Maze/ M14 to determine if this guy will be standard playable. That said I think this guy has a lot of potential for EDH/ Casual. Admittedly I don't play competitively anymore, but I had control deck built around Gravepact/ Mortician Beetle/ Bloodghast/ Pawn of Ulamog/ Bloodthrone Vampire that would be happy to include this guy. Just because a card isn't a GoST doesn't mean it's not playable.
Murder doesn't have an upkeep'd 5/6 flying body either.
We were discussing worst-case scenarios. And the worst-case scenario here is that this is a sorcery-speed Murder that costs an additional and can't hit 100% of the targets that Murder can hit.
The best case scenario involves reliable, cheap graveyard dump, printed on otherwise desirable black cards, that exists simultaneously with this card in Standard. In other words, dredge or something very much like it. There is currently no evidence that any such cards will co-exist in Standard with this card.
None of the middle-ground scenarios result in this card being anything other than OK. 5 mana for a Murder + a 5/6 flying blocker for 1 turn is fine, but it's not exactly setting the world on fire. Some elaborate sacrifice outlet combo is fine, but again, it's just not particularly worth the effort, given the size and the cost.
I'll remind everybody that this is the same forum that predicted that Soul Ransom would be a $15-20 chase rare. There is always a great deal of over-optimism and/or hype on early spoilers like this.
We were discussing worst-case scenarios. And the worst-case scenario here is that this is a sorcery-speed Murder that costs an additional and can't hit 100% of the targets that Murder can hit.
The best case scenario involves reliable, cheap graveyard dump, printed on otherwise desirable black cards, that exists simultaneously with this card in Standard. In other words, dredge or something very much like it. There is currently no evidence that any such cards will co-exist in Standard with this card.
None of the middle-ground scenarios result in this card being anything other than OK. 5 mana for a Murder + a 5/6 flying blocker for 1 turn is fine, but it's not exactly setting the world on fire. Some elaborate sacrifice outlet combo is fine, but again, it's just not particularly worth the effort, given the size and the cost.
I'll remind everybody that this is the same forum that predicted that Soul Ransom would be a $15-20 chase rare. There is always a great deal of over-optimism and/or hype on early spoilers like this.
OR
You topdeck him late game, your graveyard is filled with creatures and he's a slightly worse sorcery-speed murder with a 5/6 flyer body with no drawback for 5 mana: sounds pretty good.
What a surprise we can all come up with scenarios where he's great OR awful!
I don't know that this guy will be playable, but I find it laughable how certain some people are that it will be absolutely unplayable. Are you folks seeing into the future? Do you have information that I don't about what Standard will look like in six months? As usual, as spoilers are released people will set their opinions down like they just returned from Mount Sinai, dismissing cards as complete garbage; then five months later they quietly sleeve those same cards up...
...not only is the total number of players expanding very quickly, but at the same time a greater and greater number of those players are being pushed to only desire a small subset of the available cards. These combined forces drastically increase demand for those cards and cause the values of just those specific cards to often balloon out of proportion.
You topdeck him late game, your graveyard is filled with creatures and he's a slightly worse sorcery-speed murder with a 5/6 flyer body with no drawback for 5 mana: sounds pretty good.
What a surprise we can all come up with scenarios where he's great OR awful!
This sounds like a Casual scenario. I'm talking about Standard. If you just assume that you'll probably have 6 or more creatures in your graveyard by the endgame, and don't build a deck that's dedicated to achieving just this, I don't think that this card is going to work out particularly well for you.
In my opinion, who is this card for? Casual / EDH. Which is fine. It looks fun.
But people who are saying "Black Baneslayer!" or "Thragtusk Killer!" are grossly overestimating its applications in highly-competitive formats, like Standard.
It gives black something it has not had access to before? Maybe I misread the card, but I'm not sure what it is that it does that is new for black.
Not that I disagree with you on it seeing EDH play. It definitely will if it is real; I certainly will be one of those people playing it.
Most black destroy creatures say non-black and/or non-artifact. The Non-demon clause makes him an infinitely more versatile black removal-on-a-stick than say Shriekmaw or Bone Shredder.
In reanimtor decks, his 'drawback' is actually a positive since he can out himself in the graveyard to more easily reuse himself.
Is there some 3xx mana cycle going on with this demon,Baneslayer angel and Thundermaw hellkite. I mean they all appreaed in core sets so I wonder if we will get the green and blue version.
persecutor + this is just an awesome idea for the gate, another one is for dredge. 6 creatures? no problem!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Is there some 3xx mana cycle going on with this demon,Baneslayer angel and Thundermaw hellkite. I mean they all appreaed in core sets so I wonder if we will get the green and blue version.
I don't know that this guy will be playable, but I find it laughable how certain some people are that it will be absolutely unplayable. Are you folks seeing into the future? Do you have information that I don't about what Standard will look like in six months? As usual, as spoilers are released people will set their opinions down like they just returned from Mount Sinai, dismissing cards as complete garbage; then five months later they quietly sleeve those same cards up...
It's certainly hard to know what the Standard and Draft environments will look like, but it's safe to say it won't be playable in Modern or Legacy. I think it's easy to conclude it isn't very powerful, but it isn't bad either. I think the mythic rare aspect is what is disappointing people.
There are no circumstances where this card is bad. If someone called soul ransom a $20 card theyre an idiot.
Calling this a playable card is reasonable. Underestimating anything that costs 5 and kills a creature when it enters is done at your own peril. Remember when people thought Angel of Serenity wouldn't see play?
I don't think this is far off from being the black angel of serenity. It's not a bad reanimation target and is cheaper to boot. I expect this to get more play than bloodgift demon because it has an impace when it hits the board.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Calling this a playable card is reasonable. Underestimating anything that costs 5 and kills a creature when it enters is done at your own peril. Remember when people thought Angel of Serenity wouldn't see play?
This card is much closer to Desecration Demon than it is to Angel of Serenity. People thought that Desecration Demon would be playable because its drawback wasn't really one. It turns out the drawback was real.
But that's how demons roll, they tempt you with power and before you know it, you've sold your soul to them and are in more of a pickle than before.
There are no circumstances where this card is bad. If someone called soul ransom a $20 card theyre an idiot.
Calling this a playable card is reasonable. Underestimating anything that costs 5 and kills a creature when it enters is done at your own peril. Remember when people thought Angel of Serenity wouldn't see play?
I don't think this is far off from being the black angel of serenity. It's not a bad reanimation target and is cheaper to boot. I expect this to get more play than bloodgift demon because it has an impace when it hits the board.
Not to pick on this specifically but there are dozens of different situations where this card would be terrible. Not to mention a dozen more where it would be just mediocre.
It sucks vs non creature decks (combo, superfriends). It sucks against anything with built in protections like pro black/hexproof. It sucks against decks that swarm you and only care if your deck runs supreme verdict. It sucks on an empty board. It sucks when all you get is a murder and then have to sacrifice it next turn.
And those are just the general situations that don't get into specifics.
Its good when you need a murder that cost 5 and is attached to a body, its good when you need to stabilize against a midrange deck that doesnt run a lot of dudes?
It might be fine but its not omg another baneslayer.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
It gives black something it has not had access to before? Maybe I misread the card, but I'm not sure what it is that it does that is new for black.
Not that I disagree with you on it seeing EDH play. It definitely will if it is real; I certainly will be one of those people playing it.
I saw this card, and I thought that perhaps one of the keyword (particularly for Black/Red/ Maybe Green) could very well be unearth.
As far as this card being bad, I don't really agree. Yes, I don't think it will change the face of standard, but who knows, MBC could make a come back. I think we need to see more of Dragon's Maze/ M14 to determine if this guy will be standard playable. That said I think this guy has a lot of potential for EDH/ Casual. Admittedly I don't play competitively anymore, but I had control deck built around Gravepact/ Mortician Beetle/ Bloodghast/ Pawn of Ulamog/ Bloodthrone Vampire that would be happy to include this guy. Just because a card isn't a GoST doesn't mean it's not playable.
We were discussing worst-case scenarios. And the worst-case scenario here is that this is a sorcery-speed Murder that costs an additional and can't hit 100% of the targets that Murder can hit.
The best case scenario involves reliable, cheap graveyard dump, printed on otherwise desirable black cards, that exists simultaneously with this card in Standard. In other words, dredge or something very much like it. There is currently no evidence that any such cards will co-exist in Standard with this card.
None of the middle-ground scenarios result in this card being anything other than OK. 5 mana for a Murder + a 5/6 flying blocker for 1 turn is fine, but it's not exactly setting the world on fire. Some elaborate sacrifice outlet combo is fine, but again, it's just not particularly worth the effort, given the size and the cost.
I'll remind everybody that this is the same forum that predicted that Soul Ransom would be a $15-20 chase rare. There is always a great deal of over-optimism and/or hype on early spoilers like this.
6 toughness is quite relevant these days, no smiter or tusk gettin through, resto and serenity dont trade with it
i also like how it works with deadeye navigator and resto haha... VALUE!
OR
You topdeck him late game, your graveyard is filled with creatures and he's a slightly worse sorcery-speed murder with a 5/6 flyer body with no drawback for 5 mana: sounds pretty good.
What a surprise we can all come up with scenarios where he's great OR awful!
Have all of them.
Join us on Cardgame Coalition!
It's pretty damn powerful
Not in your face powerful but very, very strong
Not particularly pushed though.
Will probably go the way of every other demon from the last 3 years that isn't named abyssal persecutor.
Also, not even close to baneslayer angel. Who said that...
This sounds like a Casual scenario. I'm talking about Standard. If you just assume that you'll probably have 6 or more creatures in your graveyard by the endgame, and don't build a deck that's dedicated to achieving just this, I don't think that this card is going to work out particularly well for you.
In my opinion, who is this card for? Casual / EDH. Which is fine. It looks fun.
But people who are saying "Black Baneslayer!" or "Thragtusk Killer!" are grossly overestimating its applications in highly-competitive formats, like Standard.
Most black destroy creatures say non-black and/or non-artifact. The Non-demon clause makes him an infinitely more versatile black removal-on-a-stick than say Shriekmaw or Bone Shredder.
In reanimtor decks, his 'drawback' is actually a positive since he can out himself in the graveyard to more easily reuse himself.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Abyssal Persecutor went somewhere?
I don't think its terrible or anything, but i'd be surprised if it found a home in any kind of a competitive standard deck.
I'm assuming this is just unnecessary in modern POD but I guess it might get plugged into that deck somehow.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Thats not a cycle.
It's certainly hard to know what the Standard and Draft environments will look like, but it's safe to say it won't be playable in Modern or Legacy. I think it's easy to conclude it isn't very powerful, but it isn't bad either. I think the mythic rare aspect is what is disappointing people.
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
It might just be for Android tablets the game would be horrible on a phone. Even on an Ipad the screen can sometimes be problematic in size.
Pretty sure the IOS version doesn't run on an Iphone since the screen area is needed.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Calling this a playable card is reasonable. Underestimating anything that costs 5 and kills a creature when it enters is done at your own peril. Remember when people thought Angel of Serenity wouldn't see play?
I don't think this is far off from being the black angel of serenity. It's not a bad reanimation target and is cheaper to boot. I expect this to get more play than bloodgift demon because it has an impace when it hits the board.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
This card is much closer to Desecration Demon than it is to Angel of Serenity. People thought that Desecration Demon would be playable because its drawback wasn't really one. It turns out the drawback was real.
But that's how demons roll, they tempt you with power and before you know it, you've sold your soul to them and are in more of a pickle than before.
Not to pick on this specifically but there are dozens of different situations where this card would be terrible. Not to mention a dozen more where it would be just mediocre.
It sucks vs non creature decks (combo, superfriends). It sucks against anything with built in protections like pro black/hexproof. It sucks against decks that swarm you and only care if your deck runs supreme verdict. It sucks on an empty board. It sucks when all you get is a murder and then have to sacrifice it next turn.
And those are just the general situations that don't get into specifics.
Its good when you need a murder that cost 5 and is attached to a body, its good when you need to stabilize against a midrange deck that doesnt run a lot of dudes?
It might be fine but its not omg another baneslayer.