The drawback is far too steep, imo. You're essentially playing five mana for a sorcery speed creature kill and one-turn blocker.
This is only true if you play him as soon as you can without considering what kind of low CC creatures that might have some graveyard/leave the battlefield abilities that could (should really) be in your deck. Bascially if you don't think about how to play with him he won't be as good, yes; not really a novel concept however.
Honestly people, this guy is pretty good and if he gets some support in M14 he could be deadly.
I think everyone is overlooking something very important about the spoiling of this card:
The keyword for the coreset, if this indeed a spoiler for it and not only DotP, could be Threshold.
Then why not just give him Threshold? Also, MaRo has said that people don't normally keep track wheter threshold is active or not, so a return is unlikely, especially in a core set.
I think everyone is overlooking something very important about the spoiling of this card:
The keyword for the coreset, if this indeed a spoiler for it and not only DotP, could be Threshold.
Threshold is not likely to return, since it makes the field way too complicated for most players. It didn't even return in Time Spiral except for Mystic Enforcer.
The argument that he isn't good in limited is hilarious.
So let me get this straight.. you're saying that a 5/6 flier for 5 that has an almost unconditional murder attached to him is bad?! You really don't think you'll have chaff like goblin piker to chuck away to keep one of the bigger fliers in limited afloat until you hit a target number?!
The argument that he isn't good in limited is hilarious.
So let me get this straight.. you're saying that a 5/6 flier for 5 that has an almost unconditional murder attached to him is bad?! You really don't think you'll have chaff like goblin piker to chuck away to keep one of the bigger fliers in limited afloat until you hit a target number?!
Does anyone actually play limited?!
We'll need to know more about the rest of the set to get a proper limited evaluation.
He doesn't have trample nor haste so if there's a lot of flying he wouln't be all that great; still pretty good though!
We'll need to know more about the rest of the set to get a proper limited evaluation.
He doesn't have trample nor haste so if there's a lot of flying he wouln't be all that great; still pretty good though!
Even if he dies the very next turn because you're OOC, he is still a five mana removal spell (I would take a five mana uncon removal in every core set limited ever).
The way I see it, there are only two very far-flung cases where he's not an all-star slam.
1. Every color gets a boatload of demons.
2. The format is even faster than zendikar.
Standard is another story though. He is highly, highly dependent on top-down recursive dudes, etb chaff, or dies triggers.
Unless dredge is the returning keyword in M14, this card is never going to amount to anything in Standard. The creature kill is fine, but the level of gymnastics you have to perform just to keep his 5/6 body on the field will never be warranted. Unless cheap, easy, recurring graveyard dump is a thing (dredge.)
It's Limited playable. It's not exactly a bomb. I'd rate it about a 3.0.
We'll need to know more about the rest of the set to get a proper limited evaluation.
No we don't. Even in an extremely fast format, Angelic Edict is still good. This card is miles better than that, and should be good in just about every Limited format conceivable.
It's not incredible at any one thing, but it is versatile. At worst, it's a Murder, since you can always just have it as a blocker for a turn and then sac it to itself. There's no Lord of the Pit-style drawback to hurt you. If you're running Lingering Souls, the drawback is mostly irrelevant. It's just nice to have the versatility, and it will probably see significant play.
No we don't. Even in an extremely fast format, Angelic Edict is still good. This card is miles better than that, and should be good in just about every Limited format conceivable.
I never said it wasn't good.
I said to get a good idea of how good it is in limited we'll need to more about the set.
I think this card is awesome in both limited in constructed but I'm much excited about it in constructed: it's going to be fun trying to figure out how to make him REAL good!
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
I'm thinking, like a lot of you probably are, that in the right build this guy could be insane and a great curve topper for controlish type decks. We will have to wait and see what else they come up with in Dragon Maze and M14, but this guy just whets my appetite for more spoilers.
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Not standard legal but having something like Bloodghast alongside him would make his drawback almost non-existent
Or having creatures that do stuff when they go to the graveyard
There are way to make having to sacrifice creatures good for you
It isn't about building a deck around the upkeep, it's about making the upkeep work for you rather than against you
Not surprised that some of you are calling it unplayable though, lack of imagination seems to be rampant around here
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This is only true if you play him as soon as you can without considering what kind of low CC creatures that might have some graveyard/leave the battlefield abilities that could (should really) be in your deck. Bascially if you don't think about how to play with him he won't be as good, yes; not really a novel concept however.
Honestly people, this guy is pretty good and if he gets some support in M14 he could be deadly.
This guy gets it!
I agree. In Limited, you won't have enough creatures in your graveyard. In constructed, you lose to things like rest in peace.
The keyword for the coreset, if this indeed a spoiler for it and not only DotP, could be Threshold.
Fair enough this guy is clearly not all that great in limited
The Rest in Peace argument is balloney. Just because there are answers to him he's no good?
Then why not just give him Threshold? Also, MaRo has said that people don't normally keep track wheter threshold is active or not, so a return is unlikely, especially in a core set.
They dont just make up cards for the DotP games, every card we hadnt seen before has come out at paper cards.
Threshold is not likely to return, since it makes the field way too complicated for most players. It didn't even return in Time Spiral except for Mystic Enforcer.
So let me get this straight.. you're saying that a 5/6 flier for 5 that has an almost unconditional murder attached to him is bad?! You really don't think you'll have chaff like goblin piker to chuck away to keep one of the bigger fliers in limited afloat until you hit a target number?!
Does anyone actually play limited?!
We'll need to know more about the rest of the set to get a proper limited evaluation.
He doesn't have trample nor haste so if there's a lot of flying he wouln't be all that great; still pretty good though!
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Hahaha had not thought of that one!
Even if he dies the very next turn because you're OOC, he is still a five mana removal spell (I would take a five mana uncon removal in every core set limited ever).
The way I see it, there are only two very far-flung cases where he's not an all-star slam.
1. Every color gets a boatload of demons.
2. The format is even faster than zendikar.
Standard is another story though. He is highly, highly dependent on top-down recursive dudes, etb chaff, or dies triggers.
It's Limited playable. It's not exactly a bomb. I'd rate it about a 3.0.
No we don't. Even in an extremely fast format, Angelic Edict is still good. This card is miles better than that, and should be good in just about every Limited format conceivable.
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Agreed, though it's not standard legal.
It's not incredible at any one thing, but it is versatile. At worst, it's a Murder, since you can always just have it as a blocker for a turn and then sac it to itself. There's no Lord of the Pit-style drawback to hurt you. If you're running Lingering Souls, the drawback is mostly irrelevant. It's just nice to have the versatility, and it will probably see significant play.
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Yards, maybe.
That costs 3BB and can't be played at instant speed.
I never said it wasn't good.
I said to get a good idea of how good it is in limited we'll need to more about the set.
I think this card is awesome in both limited in constructed but I'm much excited about it in constructed: it's going to be fun trying to figure out how to make him REAL good!
Murder doesn't have an upkeep'd 5/6 flying body either.
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