Judge foil regrowth already shows regrowth in the new border. So it will probably be the same without the foil DCI logo. Kinda like MM doubling season to the judge foil one.
Most likely we will see the MTGO version of Regrowth, as this is an ongoing trend these days (look at FTV:20 version of the latest reprint of Hymn to Tourach).
Oddly the lumberjacks are what grab my attention most from the list.
Never underestimate Orcish Lumberjack, he's a powerhouse in FiresofYavimaya.dec. Turn 1 Lumberjack into a turn 2 Blitz Hellion is hard to recover from.
Don't know which thread to post this in so ill post in both.
The monsters deck is just filled with a ton of boring vanilla beaters while the heros deck isn't much better I consider armory guard to be vanilla cause he is that boring.
Also the World eater's ability is horribly costed and wont scratch any of the heros that have power ups on. You would be better just casting a over the edge fireball
The decks are litted with m14,m13, or just terrible not even suited for limited fodder vanilla creatures that serve no purpose and are merely gap fillers cause the designer couldn't be bothered to spend a few more hours trying out different cards and seeing how they work. I can see what they going for with the whole mana ramp creatures for the monster deck to help Pocahontus pull off his ability but atleast go full ball with it.
There decent reprints especially figure of destiny but I do feel a things were missed we it comes to the smaller creatures Ghor-Clan Savage for example compared to say Deadshot Minotaur or Zhur-Taa Swine . (Please note bloodlust is a crap mechanic stop using it designers)
If I had to give a rating for the duel deck before playing with it, I would say 5/10 its not bad but its far far from being good.
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Now that the full decklist of this set has been revealed, I can comment about it.
I have mixed feelings about it, while it is not as terribly disappointing as was Venser versus Koth, it is not quite as excellent as my four favorite sets in the Duel Decks series (Divine versus Demonic, Phyrexia versus the Coalition, Ajani versus Nicol Bolas, and Izzet versus Golgari), which would make it equal to Sorin versus Tibalt, in my mind. The Heroes deck has only two legendary creatures, and I had been expecting it to have many more legendary creatures, since legendary creatures are often the "heroes" of their stories, and not too many of the creatures in that deck seem to be properly "heroic," to me.
I also do not like how the monsters decks has a greater amount and variety of non-basic lands than does the heroes deck, but there is nothing that I can do about that, so I shall not allow that to bother me.
I do like the alternate artwork for many of the cards, particularly Fires of Yavimaya, and several of the preview cards, so this set is certainly very exciting and epic-feeling, mostly. I understand that not every set can be composed solely of awesome cards, but at least this set is not the worst of the Duel Decks series. I shall likely purchase several single cards from it, but certainly not the entire deck, which is what I have done in the past. However, this deck does certainly have me very excited for Theros, so I shall be awaiting that set with great anticipation.
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Ok me again, Normally what I do with duel decks is get 4x and then pick and choose from them to get decent playable casual decks and after spending some time going over the decks my initial opinion has been slightly altered.
Heros Deck
Starting with the heros, apart from the few junk even in limited cards like Armory Guard, Somberwald Vigilante. The deck does a decent job of weenies getting pumped. Fencing Ace, Thraben Valiant, Figure of Destiny are great cards to start off pushing a early aggression only to move into enchanment power ups.
The enchanments and spells share the same fate as the creatures some decent ones like Bonds of FaithGriffin GuideRighteousness Miraculous Recovery. But there also the sinkers like Battle MasterySmite the MonstrousPay No Heed. Its odd to see a wrath spell in a duel deck especially one that can end up being quite 1 sided. Kamahl, Pit Fighter seems out of place even if wizards trys to justify it. Just isn't a hero and is pretty crappy with its 1 toughness maybe Pocohontus can atleast kill it.
(Hero deck 8/10, decent theme but limited trash pull it down )
monsters deck....
You know how koth and venser was kinda silly in terms of koth being totally trash and venser barely having enough cards to make the price tag justifiable. Well the Monsters deck is koths deck.
Firstly the creatures, there are a few cute mechanics Zhur-Taa Druid pinging for damage and getting bloodlust off. Blood Ogre probably the best mana to power ratio for a blood lust creature in this deck. Even the combination of Orcish Lumberjack combined with Deus of Calamity lets you drop it turn 2 at the cost of just 1 land is incredible. On the other hand cards like Ghor-Clan SavageGorehorn Minotaurs which are bad in terms of mana to power ratio get worse as they just are vanilla beaters. Only takes a few seconds on gatherer to find better replacements Beacon Behemoth Deadshot Minotaur, Heirs of Stromkirk , Rubblebelt Maaka . Even cards like Skarrgan Skybreaker just scream seriously your not even trying to add decent stuff Ill take a Pelakka Wurm any day.
In terms of spells I wasn't expecting anything spectacular from a G/ deck. beast within, Prey Upon, Volt Charge are all pretty decent slots. Special mention to Regrowth a great inclusion. I would of liked to see a bit more mana ramp especially in such a mana heavy deck. Exploding Borders, Explosive Vegetation even something as cool as Fertilid which works well with cards like Dragon blood would of been great. Shower of Sparks ugh just give me Arc TrailAssault // Battery (Assault) Chain Lightning lightning bolt any day.
Monsters deck (6/10) the cool combinations with Orcish lumber jack bring it up to a passing standard but just barely.
New cards
Anax and Cymede: great legend, very good outside these duel decks, still a able to be brought back by sun titan but not enough spells to take advantage of the effect.
Ordeal of Purphoros: fantastic art, well costed, cant wait to see the rest of the cycle.
Cavalry Pegasus: Kinda wish it said soliders instead of humans...but still a good limited card don't see it doing much in the duel deck though.
Satyr Hedonist: Good flavor, bit annoyed by the 1R need to pop it. Still a chump blocking dark ritual isn't bad.
Destructive Revelry: Its ok, well costed could of been 3 damage as opposed to just 2 .
Polukranos, World Eater: Ugh, this is probably the card I have the most issues with. Considering its suppose to be the head liner for the deck and for theros itself. Its quite rubbish, there used to be a time when 4 cmc in green for a 5/5 was great but not really any more. Rumbling Slum in my opinion trounces it, other cards Fangren FirstbornThrun, the Last Troll, Vengevine are better in certain decks, hell even Wolfbriar Elemental for the same mana that people talk about 9 give a 4/4 and 5 2/2. Development really messed up this card that could of been a decent trouble making in standard and modern ended up being weak and pathetic. In terms of the duel decks. The heros deck has so many options to remove it or negate the damage and even if it can get monstrous the best it could managed will be like 3 damage, divided. Which doesn't help against pumped up creatures that by turn 4 could be a 3/3 with double strike that has already chewed through most of your life points.
I apologies for the wall of text. I hope you enjoyed reading this I apologies for any spelling mistakes. Ill be posting deck lists in my blog the weekend after the decks get released. Feel free to check out my other lists in the mean time. Taking casual duels decks into SUPER casual duel decks.
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
@Lantid: One of the monster's deck best rares is Crater Hellion. A large percentage of its creatures have 5+ toughness to survive the Hellion. In fact, all of the "bad" creatures you listed survive the Hellion (which I assume is intentional), whereas most of the "better" replacements you've listed die to it. In contrast, the much-maligned Armory Guards are the Hero's best way of surviving a Hellion, along with possible trading afterwards w/ a larger threat. Of course, the Heroes get their own one-sided Wrath to play with, so all's fair.
I'd need to play w/ them before I can make a full judgement, but there are a lot of hidden synergies I like. For example, Sun Titan trades with most of the larger Monsters... unless you return and attach an Aura (like Battle Mastery) to it.
That said, I'd have liked to see Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile (although she's a bit underwhelming matched up against the monsters) and Hero's Resolve (if there's room for a bunch of bad limited cards, there must be room for an on-flavor aura with awesome flavor text).
Sadly, yes, and I for one am surprised that people keep buying this crap. The cards inside aren't worth the price of the box, or, when they are, are still a collection of cards that are not going to see play in actual Magic decks except maybe for one or two.
Duel Decks, Intro Packs, Event Decks, they all end up being boxes of mostly commons and uncommons with a rare or mythic or two that MIGHT have value. I just can't believe these things get so much attention from the player base. Buy singles. You'll do better by far, far, far.
I noticed that cards from this set are now available for pre-order at TrollandToad.com, only several hours, barely more a day, after WotC has revealed the full card list for each deck, yet pre-orders for single cards in From the Vault: Twenty became available on that site only today, despite the fact that the list of cards for that set was revealed weeks ago, far before the content of this set. Does anyone know why that happened as it did? That makes no sense to me.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I noticed that cards from this set are now available for pre-order at TrollandToad.com, only several hours, barely more a day, after WotC has revealed the full card list for each deck, yet pre-orders for single cards in From the Vault: Twenty became available on that site only today, despite the fact that the list of cards for that set was revealed weeks ago, far before the content of this set. Does anyone know why that happened as it did? That makes no sense to me.
its much easier to walk into a walmart to get one of these to sell than it is to walk into your lgs and get an ftv to sell?
Sadly, yes, and I for one am surprised that people keep buying this crap. The cards inside aren't worth the price of the box, or, when they are, are still a collection of cards that are not going to see play in actual Magic decks except maybe for one or two.
Duel Decks, Intro Packs, Event Decks, they all end up being boxes of mostly commons and uncommons with a rare or mythic or two that MIGHT have value. I just can't believe these things get so much attention from the player base. Buy singles. You'll do better by far, far, far.
The players buying these "crap" are not looking to buy competitive cards for cheap. The pre-constructed products, the duel decks in particular, are just decks that players can pick up and play straight out of the box.
Think of them as a hybrid format between limited and constructed. Limited is subject to a lot of randomness. Constructed magic is dominated by people buying 4x of the most expensive cards. The duel decks provide a format where players can have a few games of magic without worrying about money or luck beyond what they draw off the top of the deck.
Duel decks are no different than drafting or sealed or EDH. They might even be better than the former two since Duel decks don't warp how Wotc makes sets.
While you might not understand why these products are still in print, they are in fact very popular for people who enjoy duel decks for what they are meant to be: easy games of magic without external factors taking away from the fun.
Sadly, yes, and I for one am surprised that people keep buying this crap. The cards inside aren't worth the price of the box, or, when they are, are still a collection of cards that are not going to see play in actual Magic decks except maybe for one or two.
Duel Decks, Intro Packs, Event Decks, they all end up being boxes of mostly commons and uncommons with a rare or mythic or two that MIGHT have value. I just can't believe these things get so much attention from the player base. Buy singles. You'll do better by far, far, far.
I don't think anyone expect a pre-constructed product to be more price efficient then singles from the secondary market. But if you would buy the whole deck list from the secondary market it would actually be more expansive due common/uncommon cards and shipping (and for the fact that singles are open cards, not cards that come straight out of a box).
People buy those cards to play with mostly and then increment their collection.
Sadly, yes, and I for one am surprised that people keep buying this crap. The cards inside aren't worth the price of the box, or, when they are, are still a collection of cards that are not going to see play in actual Magic decks except maybe for one or two.
Duel Decks, Intro Packs, Event Decks, they all end up being boxes of mostly commons and uncommons with a rare or mythic or two that MIGHT have value. I just can't believe these things get so much attention from the player base. Buy singles. You'll do better by far, far, far.
There are VERY few times that a Dual Deck has failed to top $20 in value with the cards inside. Sorin vs. Tibalt did it with three cards. Angels vs. Demons did it with 1.
As far as I know, only Phyrexia vs. The Coalition failed to beat $20.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
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Looks an awful lot more like a baloth (Obstinate Baloth, to be precise) than a kavu.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Most likely we will see the MTGO version of Regrowth, as this is an ongoing trend these days (look at FTV:20 version of the latest reprint of Hymn to Tourach).
this goes to Orcish Lumberjack as well.
Never underestimate Orcish Lumberjack, he's a powerhouse in FiresofYavimaya.dec. Turn 1 Lumberjack into a turn 2 Blitz Hellion is hard to recover from.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
The monsters deck is just filled with a ton of boring vanilla beaters while the heros deck isn't much better I consider armory guard to be vanilla cause he is that boring.
Also the World eater's ability is horribly costed and wont scratch any of the heros that have power ups on. You would be better just casting a over the edge fireball
Kamahl, Pit Fighter feels so out of place and we all know there are better rare heros out there. In fact (goes away quickly) Basandra, Battle Seraph , Commander Eesha, Crovax, Ascendant Hero, Darien, King of Kjeldor, Kumano, Master Yamabushi, Odric, Master Tactician all spring to mind.
The decks are litted with m14,m13, or just terrible not even suited for limited fodder vanilla creatures that serve no purpose and are merely gap fillers cause the designer couldn't be bothered to spend a few more hours trying out different cards and seeing how they work. I can see what they going for with the whole mana ramp creatures for the monster deck to help Pocahontus pull off his ability but atleast go full ball with it.
There decent reprints especially figure of destiny but I do feel a things were missed we it comes to the smaller creatures Ghor-Clan Savage for example compared to say Deadshot Minotaur or Zhur-Taa Swine . (Please note bloodlust is a crap mechanic stop using it designers)
If I had to give a rating for the duel deck before playing with it, I would say 5/10 its not bad but its far far from being good.
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Kind of glad i didnt pre-order one....
The only things I want out of it are the Beat Within, its token, Sun Titan, and Recovery.... (and thats just be cause they have new art....)
Heres to waiting till Commander in November....
This is typical of a duel deck, though, isn't it?
I have mixed feelings about it, while it is not as terribly disappointing as was Venser versus Koth, it is not quite as excellent as my four favorite sets in the Duel Decks series (Divine versus Demonic, Phyrexia versus the Coalition, Ajani versus Nicol Bolas, and Izzet versus Golgari), which would make it equal to Sorin versus Tibalt, in my mind. The Heroes deck has only two legendary creatures, and I had been expecting it to have many more legendary creatures, since legendary creatures are often the "heroes" of their stories, and not too many of the creatures in that deck seem to be properly "heroic," to me.
I also do not like how the monsters decks has a greater amount and variety of non-basic lands than does the heroes deck, but there is nothing that I can do about that, so I shall not allow that to bother me.
I do like the alternate artwork for many of the cards, particularly Fires of Yavimaya, and several of the preview cards, so this set is certainly very exciting and epic-feeling, mostly. I understand that not every set can be composed solely of awesome cards, but at least this set is not the worst of the Duel Decks series. I shall likely purchase several single cards from it, but certainly not the entire deck, which is what I have done in the past. However, this deck does certainly have me very excited for Theros, so I shall be awaiting that set with great anticipation.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Heros Deck
Starting with the heros, apart from the few junk even in limited cards like Armory Guard, Somberwald Vigilante. The deck does a decent job of weenies getting pumped. Fencing Ace, Thraben Valiant, Figure of Destiny are great cards to start off pushing a early aggression only to move into enchanment power ups.
The enchanments and spells share the same fate as the creatures some decent ones like Bonds of Faith Griffin Guide Righteousness Miraculous Recovery. But there also the sinkers like Battle Mastery Smite the Monstrous Pay No Heed. Its odd to see a wrath spell in a duel deck especially one that can end up being quite 1 sided. Kamahl, Pit Fighter seems out of place even if wizards trys to justify it. Just isn't a hero and is pretty crappy with its 1 toughness maybe Pocohontus can atleast kill it.
(Hero deck 8/10, decent theme but limited trash pull it down )
monsters deck....
You know how koth and venser was kinda silly in terms of koth being totally trash and venser barely having enough cards to make the price tag justifiable. Well the Monsters deck is koths deck.
Firstly the creatures, there are a few cute mechanics Zhur-Taa Druid pinging for damage and getting bloodlust off. Blood Ogre probably the best mana to power ratio for a blood lust creature in this deck. Even the combination of Orcish Lumberjack combined with Deus of Calamity lets you drop it turn 2 at the cost of just 1 land is incredible. On the other hand cards like Ghor-Clan Savage Gorehorn Minotaurs which are bad in terms of mana to power ratio get worse as they just are vanilla beaters. Only takes a few seconds on gatherer to find better replacements Beacon Behemoth Deadshot Minotaur, Heirs of Stromkirk , Rubblebelt Maaka . Even cards like Skarrgan Skybreaker just scream seriously your not even trying to add decent stuff Ill take a Pelakka Wurm any day.
In terms of spells I wasn't expecting anything spectacular from a G/ deck. beast within, Prey Upon, Volt Charge are all pretty decent slots. Special mention to Regrowth a great inclusion. I would of liked to see a bit more mana ramp especially in such a mana heavy deck. Exploding Borders, Explosive Vegetation even something as cool as Fertilid which works well with cards like Dragon blood would of been great. Shower of Sparks ugh just give me Arc Trail Assault // Battery (Assault) Chain Lightning lightning bolt any day.
Monsters deck (6/10) the cool combinations with Orcish lumber jack bring it up to a passing standard but just barely.
New cards
Anax and Cymede: great legend, very good outside these duel decks, still a able to be brought back by sun titan but not enough spells to take advantage of the effect.
Ordeal of Purphoros: fantastic art, well costed, cant wait to see the rest of the cycle.
Cavalry Pegasus: Kinda wish it said soliders instead of humans...but still a good limited card don't see it doing much in the duel deck though.
Satyr Hedonist: Good flavor, bit annoyed by the 1R need to pop it. Still a chump blocking dark ritual isn't bad.
Destructive Revelry: Its ok, well costed could of been 3 damage as opposed to just 2 .
Polukranos, World Eater: Ugh, this is probably the card I have the most issues with. Considering its suppose to be the head liner for the deck and for theros itself. Its quite rubbish, there used to be a time when 4 cmc in green for a 5/5 was great but not really any more. Rumbling Slum in my opinion trounces it, other cards Fangren Firstborn Thrun, the Last Troll, Vengevine are better in certain decks, hell even Wolfbriar Elemental for the same mana that people talk about 9 give a 4/4 and 5 2/2. Development really messed up this card that could of been a decent trouble making in standard and modern ended up being weak and pathetic. In terms of the duel decks. The heros deck has so many options to remove it or negate the damage and even if it can get monstrous the best it could managed will be like 3 damage, divided. Which doesn't help against pumped up creatures that by turn 4 could be a 3/3 with double strike that has already chewed through most of your life points.
I apologies for the wall of text. I hope you enjoyed reading this I apologies for any spelling mistakes. Ill be posting deck lists in my blog the weekend after the decks get released. Feel free to check out my other lists in the mean time. Taking casual duels decks into SUPER casual duel decks.
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
I'd need to play w/ them before I can make a full judgement, but there are a lot of hidden synergies I like. For example, Sun Titan trades with most of the larger Monsters... unless you return and attach an Aura (like Battle Mastery) to it.
That said, I'd have liked to see Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile (although she's a bit underwhelming matched up against the monsters) and Hero's Resolve (if there's room for a bunch of bad limited cards, there must be room for an on-flavor aura with awesome flavor text).
Sadly, yes, and I for one am surprised that people keep buying this crap. The cards inside aren't worth the price of the box, or, when they are, are still a collection of cards that are not going to see play in actual Magic decks except maybe for one or two.
Duel Decks, Intro Packs, Event Decks, they all end up being boxes of mostly commons and uncommons with a rare or mythic or two that MIGHT have value. I just can't believe these things get so much attention from the player base. Buy singles. You'll do better by far, far, far.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
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“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
its much easier to walk into a walmart to get one of these to sell than it is to walk into your lgs and get an ftv to sell?
The players buying these "crap" are not looking to buy competitive cards for cheap. The pre-constructed products, the duel decks in particular, are just decks that players can pick up and play straight out of the box.
Think of them as a hybrid format between limited and constructed. Limited is subject to a lot of randomness. Constructed magic is dominated by people buying 4x of the most expensive cards. The duel decks provide a format where players can have a few games of magic without worrying about money or luck beyond what they draw off the top of the deck.
Duel decks are no different than drafting or sealed or EDH. They might even be better than the former two since Duel decks don't warp how Wotc makes sets.
While you might not understand why these products are still in print, they are in fact very popular for people who enjoy duel decks for what they are meant to be: easy games of magic without external factors taking away from the fun.
I don't think anyone expect a pre-constructed product to be more price efficient then singles from the secondary market. But if you would buy the whole deck list from the secondary market it would actually be more expansive due common/uncommon cards and shipping (and for the fact that singles are open cards, not cards that come straight out of a box).
People buy those cards to play with mostly and then increment their collection.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
There are VERY few times that a Dual Deck has failed to top $20 in value with the cards inside. Sorin vs. Tibalt did it with three cards. Angels vs. Demons did it with 1.
As far as I know, only Phyrexia vs. The Coalition failed to beat $20.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."