Anyhow, that's precisely how I use Tibalt. I keep him at around 2-3 of, and in my Burning Vengeance deck, he really shines. I get rid of lands I don't need, and if I pitch a relevant spell? Guess what, that's a good thing.
I have been using Tibalt for a long time now... after Shrine rotated he's managed to act as a pretty good sideboard card vs the control decks that are popular now. I always just think of him as a burn spell, 2 mana for 5+ dmg is always great and the random discard doesn't hurt nearly as much in a hyper-aggressive build.
@above, your perception of the statistics here is a bit limited. Its about the average card quality in your hand vs average card quality in your deck. Tibalt allows you to keep hands with too much lands as he gives you a proper chance to replace them with spells. Of course it can backfire on you greatly, but because magic is a game of chance some times and the cards that you draw without a tibalt can also all be bad. He just increases your ''chance'' of replacing those lands with good cards. Added to that, I suspect a number of flashback and unearth spells in there to give value to the cards you discard.
That is why he'll never be a 4 of but in decks with a high chance of getting swingy hands, he may as well be played.
I think I ll buy just to get my hands on Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, as I think this card is really awesome. I will probably also play with the duel decks, because I am interested to see how they will craft a deck around either walker.
Profani,
My understanding of statistics is quite up to par as I've done a fair amount of work with mathematics in school and work.
Further, the format I play exclusively is EDH where Tibalt will be 1 of 100 cards so no, he will never be a 4 of for me.
With respect to a hand with a lot of lands - that's what a Partial Paris mulligan is for. With having Tibalt in your deck, there is simply no instance where I would not rather have a different 2 drop for what he brings.
Even in a deck with flashback, retrace (aka Bob's Tibor and Lumia), he just doesn't do enough.
He's subpar - there's a reason his price is what it is.
Tibalt is an example of being too cautious in design; they were afraid of making him too powerful yet it had the exact opposite effect. The truth is that Tibalt is a greater mistake than any planeswalker ever printed (including Jace). He is so bad, it would have been preferable to use the cardstock wasted on him for something more fruitful.
Alright, let's be somewhat realistic. Jace ruined formats. Tibalt is underwhelming, but he's nowhere near the mistake level of Jace TMS.
Is Tibalt a super-powered planeswalker? No. He never saw, and will probably never see, serious constructed play. Neither did Venser (his +1 does nothing ... unless you use etb effects. Kinda like Tibalt's +1 does nothing ... unless you play with cards that abuse it). You can still make a somewhat fun to play set of decks including him,
Alright, let's be somewhat realistic. Jace ruined formats. Tibalt is underwhelming, but he's nowhere near the mistake level of Jace TMS.
Is Tibalt a super-powered planeswalker? No. He never saw, and will probably never see, serious constructed play. Neither did Venser (his +1 does nothing ... unless you use etb effects. Kinda like Tibalt's +1 does nothing ... unless you play with cards that abuse it). You can still make a somewhat fun to play set of decks including him,
Is Tibalt a super-powered planeswalker? No. He never saw, and will probably never see, serious constructed play. Neither did Venser (his +1 does nothing ... unless you use etb effects. Kinda like Tibalt's +1 does nothing ... unless you play with cards that abuse it). You can still make a somewhat fun to play set of decks including him,
The difference between Tibalt and Venser is huge. Venser's +2 ability is practically always going to be of at least marginal use. Even if you play him on an empty board, you can tick him up two notches to "untap" a land. And his ability is far more useful in more archetypes. It's not just ETB creatures that might want him, but Persist/Undying/Fading dudes. Or blink a permanent that got a bad Aura attached to them. Or give an attacking creature pseudo-vigilance. The point is, Venser's plus ability is much more easily made useful, and its uses have a lot more impact than our devilishly bad friend's ability.
And Venser can actually fire off a second ability upon being played, one that can have a lot of impact. And he can do it without dying. Or telegraphing it two (or more) turns in advance. Venser is just a better card. He fits in decks and is often the optimal choice.
And that's something Tibalt can never boast, as in practically any strategy, he is beyond sub-optimal. I have a Burning Vengeance deck and a B/R Madness deck (both casual). Tibalt would awful in both of them, even though those are probably the strategies where he can best shine.
He's a bad card in a very bad spot; a Planeswalker, the big, marquee card type of contemporary Magical Cards. A 'walker in the color that has been most shafted in the planeswalking department. And a 'walker set to highlight a product. Bad situation....worse card.
He would be instantly playable if his +1 abilty didnt have the word Random in it. :/ That being said Sorin is very decent and will most likely be the best card in the deck while tibalts will probably make his deck better than he is.
Hope wizards decides to increase the decks power rather than drop sorins deck down to a point where tibalts deck has a chance.
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
I think the planeswalkers are irrelevant in the end. They exist only to tie together a theme, and the fact that they're one ofs makes them unimportant as part of a whole.
Alright, let's be somewhat realistic. Jace ruined formats. Tibalt is underwhelming, but he's nowhere near the mistake level of Jace TMS.
Is Tibalt a super-powered planeswalker? No. He never saw, and will probably never see, serious constructed play. Neither did Venser (his +1 does nothing ... unless you use etb effects. Kinda like Tibalt's +1 does nothing ... unless you play with cards that abuse it). You can still make a somewhat fun to play set of decks including him,
Venser saw lots of play, and his +1 was very very powerful.
Out of every duel deck so far, I think Tezzeret vs. Elspeth had the best value.
But I think Garruk v Liliana was the most fun to play by far.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Anyhow, that's precisely how I use Tibalt. I keep him at around 2-3 of, and in my Burning Vengeance deck, he really shines. I get rid of lands I don't need, and if I pitch a relevant spell? Guess what, that's a good thing.
Seems like they were hoping to have him work with the Flashback mechanic.
I've not been around MTG long enough to know how the Duel Decks work, but is it expected that Sorin, Lord of Innistrad will be re-printed for this set?
Does that usually cause the price of a PW to bottom out? I'd like to pick up some Sorins for Gatecrash/Orhzov shenanigans, but may wait if this is coming soon.
Yes. Sorin and Tibalt (Innistrad incarnations) will be reprinted with new art. If you look at prior Duel Decks, you can see the reprinted PWs featured up front in the product packaging.
It usually causes a dip in the price for the original printings.
Regardless of whether the duel decks make sense, I am a huge fan of altered art, and would honestly prefer the original Sorin and not Lord of Innistrad. But either one will have altered art for both decks, and that makes me happy. Besides, each of these decks usually has some collection of cards that become extremely high priced later on.
I've not been around MTG long enough to know how the Duel Decks work, but is it expected that Sorin, Lord of Innistrad will be re-printed for this set?
Does that usually cause the price of a PW to bottom out? I'd like to pick up some Sorins for Gatecrash/Orhzov shenanigans, but may wait if this is coming soon.
Only if the price of the card is above 20 dollars because thats the value of the duel deck besides that they might drop a few bucks nothing major
So if the card is already standard legal (like Sorin 2.0) and then is printed in DD, the DD version is standard legal as long as DKA Sorin 2.0 is right?
So if the card is already standard legal (like Sorin 2.0) and then is printed in DD, the DD version is standard legal as long as DKA Sorin 2.0 is right?
Yes the DD versions are legal in whatever format their other printings are legal in. The same is true of any other cards. You would not have to keep getting new versions of a card like Naturalize.
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There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
Elspeth, Knight-Errant dropped some (from $40-45 to $20-25 if I remember correctly) when she was printed in her Duel Deck, but even after rotation, her original ALA printing still held value. I assume it's because she's really powerful, has a fair amount of casual appeal, and seems some Legacy/Modern play.
Sorin, LOI might not have the benefit of seeing Eternal play. I'm not aware of him being run in anything outside of Standard (and even in Standard he's pretty niche). Unless he finds his way into a Tier-1 deck before the next rotation, I think he's probably near his peak price.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Elspeth, Knight-Errant dropped some (from $40-45 to $20-25 if I remember correctly) when she was printed in her Duel Deck, but even after rotation, her original ALA printing still held value. I assume it's because she's really powerful, has a fair amount of casual appeal, and seems some Legacy/Modern play.
Ark42 says that Elsepth was at $15 (SCG price) when she rotated. She his since risen to $30. DD:EvT came out during the time the price was rising.
Ark42 says that Elsepth was at $15 (SCG price) when she rotated. She his since risen to $30. DD:EvT came out during the time the price was rising.
EvT came out about a month before rotation.
It dropped as soon as it came out, but didn't drop like a rock because even the dual deck was tough to get for a couple of weeks (unless you wanted to pay $40 for it). It then continued to drop until rotation. Since then, it slowly creeped, then took a decent bump and has been slowly increasing.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Many others...
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Anyhow, that's precisely how I use Tibalt. I keep him at around 2-3 of, and in my Burning Vengeance deck, he really shines. I get rid of lands I don't need, and if I pitch a relevant spell? Guess what, that's a good thing.
Profani,
My understanding of statistics is quite up to par as I've done a fair amount of work with mathematics in school and work.
Further, the format I play exclusively is EDH where Tibalt will be 1 of 100 cards so no, he will never be a 4 of for me.
With respect to a hand with a lot of lands - that's what a Partial Paris mulligan is for. With having Tibalt in your deck, there is simply no instance where I would not rather have a different 2 drop for what he brings.
Even in a deck with flashback, retrace (aka Bob's Tibor and Lumia), he just doesn't do enough.
He's subpar - there's a reason his price is what it is.
Is Tibalt a super-powered planeswalker? No. He never saw, and will probably never see, serious constructed play. Neither did Venser (his +1 does nothing ... unless you use etb effects. Kinda like Tibalt's +1 does nothing ... unless you play with cards that abuse it). You can still make a somewhat fun to play set of decks including him,
Venser actually did see play though...
The difference between Tibalt and Venser is huge. Venser's +2 ability is practically always going to be of at least marginal use. Even if you play him on an empty board, you can tick him up two notches to "untap" a land. And his ability is far more useful in more archetypes. It's not just ETB creatures that might want him, but Persist/Undying/Fading dudes. Or blink a permanent that got a bad Aura attached to them. Or give an attacking creature pseudo-vigilance. The point is, Venser's plus ability is much more easily made useful, and its uses have a lot more impact than our devilishly bad friend's ability.
And Venser can actually fire off a second ability upon being played, one that can have a lot of impact. And he can do it without dying. Or telegraphing it two (or more) turns in advance. Venser is just a better card. He fits in decks and is often the optimal choice.
And that's something Tibalt can never boast, as in practically any strategy, he is beyond sub-optimal. I have a Burning Vengeance deck and a B/R Madness deck (both casual). Tibalt would awful in both of them, even though those are probably the strategies where he can best shine.
He's a bad card in a very bad spot; a Planeswalker, the big, marquee card type of contemporary Magical Cards. A 'walker in the color that has been most shafted in the planeswalking department. And a 'walker set to highlight a product. Bad situation....worse card.
Hope wizards decides to increase the decks power rather than drop sorins deck down to a point where tibalts deck has a chance.
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Venser saw lots of play, and his +1 was very very powerful.
Tradsies here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=336060
But I think Garruk v Liliana was the most fun to play by far.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Seems like they were hoping to have him work with the Flashback mechanic.
Did you ever play those decks against each other? Elspeth's deck dominated Tezzie's. Did not produce a level playing ground at all.
That's not the type of value (monetary) he means.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Does that usually cause the price of a PW to bottom out? I'd like to pick up some Sorins for Gatecrash/Orhzov shenanigans, but may wait if this is coming soon.
It usually causes a dip in the price for the original printings.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
RUG Intet, the Dreamer
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
WRG Mayael the Anima
UUU Jalira, Master Polymorphist
BBB Sherei, Shizo's Caretaker
GGG Yeva, Nature's Herald
GGG Ezuri, the Renegade Leader
Constructing: Karn, Silver Golem - Ephara, God of the Polis
Only if the price of the card is above 20 dollars because thats the value of the duel deck besides that they might drop a few bucks nothing major
In the future questions like this are better asked in the Rules forums
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28
but ...
Yes the DD versions are legal in whatever format their other printings are legal in. The same is true of any other cards. You would not have to keep getting new versions of a card like Naturalize.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
Sorin, LOI might not have the benefit of seeing Eternal play. I'm not aware of him being run in anything outside of Standard (and even in Standard he's pretty niche). Unless he finds his way into a Tier-1 deck before the next rotation, I think he's probably near his peak price.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Ark42 says that Elsepth was at $15 (SCG price) when she rotated. She his since risen to $30. DD:EvT came out during the time the price was rising.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
EvT came out about a month before rotation.
It dropped as soon as it came out, but didn't drop like a rock because even the dual deck was tough to get for a couple of weeks (unless you wanted to pay $40 for it). It then continued to drop until rotation. Since then, it slowly creeped, then took a decent bump and has been slowly increasing.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB