This card is good because it is very versatile and answers a lot of different kinds of threads.
It's game one of a control mirror, and your opponent resolves Jace, Memory Adept (which is now being run maindeck in a lot of lists). If you have a Terminus in your hand then it isn't going to do anything to save you, but if you have this card you can use it to destroy their Jace. Now you can run O-Ring in your control decks, but my point is that you are going to be running some kind of Wrath no matter what. This happens to be a wrath that does something else. Or maybe you are the one who had the Jace, and they were able to remove it using Oblivion Ring or Detention Sphere. You can use this to get rid of the Oblivion Ring and bring your Jace back into play. You could sit around and come up with lots of situations like this.
As i've said in this thread it will see SB play in control for the mirror but it is not a main deckable card as you aren't going to run 8 six mana wraths and you aren't cutting terminus for this.
I think this could replace Terminus maindeck in certain decks. While Terminus is obviously going to be a stronger card against aggro, this should be a stronger card against control, while still not being totally irrelevant against creature decks.
Basically it would act as a board wipe that isn't dead against other control decks. That is my best guess as to what would make it playable.
I still really don't like it at 6. Scale it back a bit and bring it to 5 and it will be played, probably pretty heavily.
...You can use this to get rid of the Oblivion Ring and bring your Jace back into play. You could sit around and come up with lots of situations like this.
Or you can just O-Ring the O-Ring, something that sounds great but never happens.
Theory-crafting is fun.
This card is bad. If PWs are a problem and you are in 3-color, Cyclonic Rift and Dreadbore are your answers. In BW, I'd rather have an O-Ring.
Exiling won't be nearly as important after rotation when all the undying guys rotate, and 6 mana is not good enough for a wrath effect against the decks that are going to run Boros Charm.
That's of course assuming that us graveyard lovers don't get any bones thrown our way in DGM, M14, or Friends. Black will always find a way to use death to its advantage.
That's why I see it more as a sideboard play. It's not like control is going to be dead in the wake of Gatecrash. You have two of the best sweepers and one of the best aggro-hosing creatures ever printed, a playable Kismet, playable planeswalkers, a lifegaining draw engine, and a lifegain-doubling monster for sideboards. Control ain't dead, and having an ace in the hole for the mirror that is never redundant is a powerful tool.
I swear to every god that's out there, it's sickening to see a card that has the potential to turn a game on its head, and 90% of you are saying it's not even worth considering playing.
Is it an "I WIN LOLZ" card that's going to define the format? Of course not.
Is it something that'll be the cornerstone of a deck that rises to the top? Probably.
Everyone is going on about how you can't cast it before aggro kills you. How about, I dunno, playing some chump blockers? Counter a spell or two? maybe drop a removal spell on their sublime archangel or blow up their hellrider?
Anyone who is saying that it's too slow or needs to do more to be playable in standard (and yes Koopa, that includes you) needs to reassess whether or not they really understand this standard. Until then, I'll gladly pay $2.00 for each one any of you cracks at the pre-release.
I'm not kidding. If you get one and don't think it's worth the cardstock it's printed on, PM me. I'll send you a check for $2.00 once I get the card from you. And when this is a $15 staple of the format, I will laugh all the way to the goddamned bank.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Or you can just O-Ring the O-Ring, something that sounds great but never happens.
That has happened literally a million times. I'm afraid I can't take you seriously. I don't expect you to care, but there it is. As I said, I'm just glad I will be able to pick this card up on the cheap.
Probably not quite a thing 'til Terminus is out the door. But it could be relevant as a sweeper that isn't completely dead in control mirrors? I dunno...don't expect greatness from it.
The reason this card is not very good, not because it's a poor card by itself (by itself its decently strong), but because it is basically Terminus. Exiling, sending to the botom of the library are equally good now. Except it trades the miracle cost for two abilities that are not too relevant. Planeswalkers aren't very good, or common, in standard at the moment, and neither are artifacts or enchantments. The chance to flip over a Terminus on turn two or three (and then have counter-magic, or Azorius Charm back up) is far better than being able kill a few artifacts or Planeswalker every now and again.
I think this could replace Terminus maindeck in certain decks. While Terminus is obviously going to be a stronger card against aggro, this should be a stronger card against control, while still not being totally irrelevant against creature decks.
Basically it would act as a board wipe that isn't dead against other control decks. That is my best guess as to what would make it playable.
I still really don't like it at 6. Scale it back a bit and bring it to 5 and it will be played, probably pretty heavily.
If this was 5 mana or was choose 2 then it would be playable. As it is it is better vs control but worse vs aggro and midrange.
Ridiculous good in EDH, deals nicely with those darksteel forge abusers out there while also being final judgement and 2 other modes...
For standard, there's a very good chance this sees some play even if it's not ubiquitous. Yes, we all know that terminus is usually better, and supreme verdict can also be better, but for ohzhov, junk or dega control decks this is at least worth considering if you need sweepers 5-whatever. Anyways, 3 of 5 stars, doesn't suck etc.
That has happened literally a million times. I'm afraid I can't take you seriously. I don't expect you to care, but there it is. As I said, I'm just glad I will be able to pick this card up on the cheap.
If you play at an lgs where everyone is battling it out with O-Rings, you play in a slow-ass meta dude. Just sayin.
If you play at an lgs where everyone is battling it out with O-Rings, you play in a slow-ass meta dude. Just sayin.
I usually play on magic online and aggressive decks are very well represented on magic online. I'm not going to say anything else because the things I want to say are rude and condescending.
If you think O-Ring on an O-Ring "never actually happens," you play in a bizarrely aggro-heavy meta. My lgs is incredibly aggro-heavy and I still see O-Ring wars every week.
If you think O-Ring on an O-Ring "never actually happens," you play in a bizarrely aggro-heavy meta. My lgs is incredibly aggro-heavy and I still see O-Ring wars every week.
you'll be dead before you case that o-ring man, aggro decks are too fast for it!
I usually play on magic online and aggressive decks are very well represented on magic online. I'm not going to say anything else because the things I want to say are rude and condescending.
That explains it then. Online is populated with rogue decks where catch-alls like O-Ring are plentiful and shine.
I play at qualifiers in a big city where you almost always win or lose by turn 5, whether you realized it or not.
O-Rings are rare because all the power players now what each other are playing and sideboard hate accordingly.
Uh huh. So when's the last time you won $15k playing make-believe magic?
You're weird dude.
You realize that most pros and very good players use magic online a lot, right? I'm not saying that magic online is profitable, I'm saying that the level of competition on MTGO tends to be a lot higher than it is in the real world. You don't know anything about magic online, and it shows.
Why would I ever want to play this card over others(even in the control mirror)? I mean terminus and supreme verdict are fine and terminus seems better overall against aggro. Detention Sphere is already amazing against planeswalkers and control players must not be that worried about them as their only playing 1 or 2 D-Spheres in the first place but even if they played 4 it doesn't change my point. The artifact and enchantment removal is not very relevant at the moment. I'm not saying the card wont see play but it has a lot of competition with other cards.
If you want to ban powerful cards, why not Islands? They have been proven to be fairly unfair in most cases.
The worst turn 1 play you can face down is Draw, play basic Island and say, "go"
Uh huh. So when's the last time you won $15k playing make-believe magic?
You're weird dude.
Let me guess, you play in underground tournaments with thousands of dollars guarded by a baseball cap. The Pro Tour and Star City invitationals are the only tournaments with that kind of prize support. Which I can confidently say you've never won.
The fact that you're making such broad, inaccurate statements shows how inept you are at the game and it's more competitive nature.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
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As i've said in this thread it will see SB play in control for the mirror but it is not a main deckable card as you aren't going to run 8 six mana wraths and you aren't cutting terminus for this.
Basically it would act as a board wipe that isn't dead against other control decks. That is my best guess as to what would make it playable.
I still really don't like it at 6. Scale it back a bit and bring it to 5 and it will be played, probably pretty heavily.
Or you can just O-Ring the O-Ring, something that sounds great but never happens.
Theory-crafting is fun.
This card is bad. If PWs are a problem and you are in 3-color, Cyclonic Rift and Dreadbore are your answers. In BW, I'd rather have an O-Ring.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
That's of course assuming that us graveyard lovers don't get any bones thrown our way in DGM, M14, or Friends. Black will always find a way to use death to its advantage.
That's why I see it more as a sideboard play. It's not like control is going to be dead in the wake of Gatecrash. You have two of the best sweepers and one of the best aggro-hosing creatures ever printed, a playable Kismet, playable planeswalkers, a lifegaining draw engine, and a lifegain-doubling monster for sideboards. Control ain't dead, and having an ace in the hole for the mirror that is never redundant is a powerful tool.
Cubetutor Link
Is it an "I WIN LOLZ" card that's going to define the format? Of course not.
Is it something that'll be the cornerstone of a deck that rises to the top? Probably.
Everyone is going on about how you can't cast it before aggro kills you. How about, I dunno, playing some chump blockers? Counter a spell or two? maybe drop a removal spell on their sublime archangel or blow up their hellrider?
Anyone who is saying that it's too slow or needs to do more to be playable in standard (and yes Koopa, that includes you) needs to reassess whether or not they really understand this standard. Until then, I'll gladly pay $2.00 for each one any of you cracks at the pre-release.
I'm not kidding. If you get one and don't think it's worth the cardstock it's printed on, PM me. I'll send you a check for $2.00 once I get the card from you. And when this is a $15 staple of the format, I will laugh all the way to the goddamned bank.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Should have cost 1 less and had haste and trample. Works great with Illusionist's Bracers, though!
That has happened literally a million times. I'm afraid I can't take you seriously. I don't expect you to care, but there it is. As I said, I'm just glad I will be able to pick this card up on the cheap.
this couldnt cost 5? should cost 4 tbh. sick of aggro decks running a muck in t2
If this was 5 mana or was choose 2 then it would be playable. As it is it is better vs control but worse vs aggro and midrange.
For standard, there's a very good chance this sees some play even if it's not ubiquitous. Yes, we all know that terminus is usually better, and supreme verdict can also be better, but for ohzhov, junk or dega control decks this is at least worth considering if you need sweepers 5-whatever. Anyways, 3 of 5 stars, doesn't suck etc.
If you play at an lgs where everyone is battling it out with O-Rings, you play in a slow-ass meta dude. Just sayin.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
/thread
In fact, this should end every spoiler thread on mtgs
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Standard: W/R Aggro
you'll be dead before you case that o-ring man, aggro decks are too fast for it!
That explains it then. Online is populated with rogue decks where catch-alls like O-Ring are plentiful and shine.
I play at qualifiers in a big city where you almost always win or lose by turn 5, whether you realized it or not.
O-Rings are rare because all the power players now what each other are playing and sideboard hate accordingly.
But I'm a bad magic player, so nevermind me.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Magic Online is far more competitive than real life, bro.
Uh huh. So when's the last time you won $15k playing make-believe magic?
You're weird dude.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
You realize that most pros and very good players use magic online a lot, right? I'm not saying that magic online is profitable, I'm saying that the level of competition on MTGO tends to be a lot higher than it is in the real world. You don't know anything about magic online, and it shows.
BaconoftheArk speaks the truth:
Let me guess, you play in underground tournaments with thousands of dollars guarded by a baseball cap. The Pro Tour and Star City invitationals are the only tournaments with that kind of prize support. Which I can confidently say you've never won.
The fact that you're making such broad, inaccurate statements shows how inept you are at the game and it's more competitive nature.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control