Manipulator has great art to bad its wasted on a card that isn't going to see much play. I mean its a fun card and all just too slow would have been better if it could only take 1 creature at a time and kept its counters.
Also Boros guy isn't bad for a 2 drop great for limited and if boros aggro needs 2s this isn't bad.
Manipulator doesn't just remove counters to steal. You can remove 0 counters to take a 0 (or less) power creature. And blue is the -X/-0 color.
That and manipulator is likely to always be able to evolve.
I'm not saying he's amazing by any stretch of the imagination. But he's not as bad as people are saying. Definately worse than Beguiler of Wills...a card that swung limited games so hard it hurt (if you could untap with her).
While I certainly don't think Simic Manipulator is going to be breaking standard any time soon, the people saying he should have been common (or uncommon) are nutso! Lets put aside power level for a second, and consider that you're suggesting a repeatable, permanent control magic should be common. Remember, power level isn't everything, complexity and novelty also figure into it. This card is complex with a very novel effect, it belongs at rare.
I do think people are underestimating it though. As an 0/1, in a typical limited game it will evolve at least twice, and there are tons of enablers to add +1/+1 counters w/o evolve in Simic. A 3-drop that can steal your opponents 3 drop and stick around to do so again is pretty, pretty nice. Sure it's fragile, but a fragile 3-drop is soooo much better than a fragile 4 or 5-drop. Casting a 3-drop that does nothing the turn it enters play is an acceptable tempo loss, especially since it can get you a 2 for 0 one or two turns later. Casting a 5-drop that does nothing the turn it enters play is a much harder sell, regardless of what it does if you can untap w/it.
Keep in mind this analysis is focusing on limited play. If this was a common it would basically completely warp the format. Anything with 2 or less power would be considered unplayable :\.
Manipulator doesn't just remove counters to steal. You can remove 0 counters to take a 0 (or less) power creature.
Unfortunately, it's templated so that you do have to remove one or more counters, even to steal a 0 power creature. What you said about blue being the -x/0 color is certainly relevant though, even if there isn't an instant in GTC or DMZ that does that, there's some nice synergy between it and the RTR instant for when we get to play RGD (which will surely be one of the most glorious limited formats ever).
+1 To whomever talked about why this is supposed to be rare. A card's rarity isn't 100% about power level guys. Part of it is how insane the card would be in multiples - hence why pingers were bumped to uncommon, for instance. Getting 2 of this guy on board would get out of control pretty fast in spite of the setup required. Furthermore, if you cast him into a stalled board, he can and will win you the game single-handedly if the opponent doesn't remove him, so his power level in limited is still at least decent.
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Man... this set. Every single rare is pure junk. Crack packs, get nothing. Mythics ftw!
Almost sig worthy right here.
We have had plenty of solid rares not counting the shocklands.
@ rarity comments
Beguiler of Wills was absolutely a wrecking ball in limited if left unanswered for a few turns while this is not as bad as that it also can be extremely problematic and steal multiple creatures if left unanswered.
The Simic Manipulator is more reminiscent of Legacy's Allure more than anything else. Yes, it's a crappy topdeck, but if it comes down turn 2 or 3 it's definitely a problem. I think the format will lean towards green-based decks with Avacyn's Pilgrim and Arbor Elves as an 8 pack in all the builds.
The Mutant Wizard is pretty fun. Repeatable control magic effects that don't go away even when the creature stealer dies are absurd. Could become really dangerous in the future, IMO.
The Boros dude is strong. Boros is going to be pretty powerful in limited and constructed.
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hmm.. i think the paladin has not enough direct impact for constructed play, but he is still a very good card.
+2+0 for 2? and firststrike for another 2? sounds like a good manasink. definitly a limited bomb. and first pick material i think. and he also has vigilance.. hmm.. with haste he would be awesome. and btw: good thing i play boros at the pre-release
Manipulator is terrible. So terrible you should always pass thid card, especially when im sitting to your left. Repeatable creature steal isnt very good guys, what game are you playing.
On a side note, I'd love to see a format where creature steal is common and a subtheme with cards based on "when you gain control of this" effects.
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Haha, Cthulhu Manipulator
Nice effect anyway; theoretically repeatable removal, but it requires him to evolve many, many times, which won't be easy. But should be good enough to steal weenies and walls
And the paladin is an ok bear. Or maybe absurdly good since it has vigilance and the pump ability is just cheap.
PS: It's a pity that the manipulator is not in the same set as Downsize or Hydrosurge; It would have been able to steal more easily.
The Simic Manipulator is more reminiscent of Legacy's Allure more than anything else. Yes, it's a crappy topdeck, but if it comes down turn 2 or 3 it's definitely a problem. I think the format will lean towards green-based decks with Avacyn's Pilgrim and Arbor Elves as an 8 pack in all the builds.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
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Man... this set. Every single rare is pure junk. Crack packs, get nothing. Mythics ftw!
Hey, I got a proposal for you... if you hate this set so much, STOP PLAYING.
See, this way, you don't have to worry about what is in this set, and we don't have to listen to you whine and complain about it. It's really a Win-Win!
Remember that, even if he dies, you still get to keep your stolen dudes. it's very unfortunate that he can't instantly steal walls, (you have to remove at least 1 counter) but there are a lot of other creatures with low power (Orzhov and Simic, and now that i think about it boros too all have a lot of small creatures) you can steal. even if you stole 1 of them and then they kill it, you got value. in constructed it's a no though.
The "Less than or Equal To" clause means you can steal walls just fine.
At first I thought the manipulator sucked, but you guys are right. He will rock limited hard. Guildmages are a thing, and also this guys favorite food.
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Also Boros guy isn't bad for a 2 drop great for limited and if boros aggro needs 2s this isn't bad.
That and manipulator is likely to always be able to evolve.
I'm not saying he's amazing by any stretch of the imagination. But he's not as bad as people are saying. Definately worse than Beguiler of Wills...a card that swung limited games so hard it hurt (if you could untap with her).
The paladin is really solid.
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I do think people are underestimating it though. As an 0/1, in a typical limited game it will evolve at least twice, and there are tons of enablers to add +1/+1 counters w/o evolve in Simic. A 3-drop that can steal your opponents 3 drop and stick around to do so again is pretty, pretty nice. Sure it's fragile, but a fragile 3-drop is soooo much better than a fragile 4 or 5-drop. Casting a 3-drop that does nothing the turn it enters play is an acceptable tempo loss, especially since it can get you a 2 for 0 one or two turns later. Casting a 5-drop that does nothing the turn it enters play is a much harder sell, regardless of what it does if you can untap w/it.
Keep in mind this analysis is focusing on limited play. If this was a common it would basically completely warp the format. Anything with 2 or less power would be considered unplayable :\.
Unfortunately, it's templated so that you do have to remove one or more counters, even to steal a 0 power creature. What you said about blue being the -x/0 color is certainly relevant though, even if there isn't an instant in GTC or DMZ that does that, there's some nice synergy between it and the RTR instant for when we get to play RGD (which will surely be one of the most glorious limited formats ever).
Almost sig worthy right here.
We have had plenty of solid rares not counting the shocklands.
@ rarity comments
Beguiler of Wills was absolutely a wrecking ball in limited if left unanswered for a few turns while this is not as bad as that it also can be extremely problematic and steal multiple creatures if left unanswered.
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How many great cards over the years have been "horrible topdecks"? Ancestral Vision, Powder Keg, Bitterblossom? How is this even an argument?
The Boros dude is strong. Boros is going to be pretty powerful in limited and constructed.
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+2+0 for 2? and firststrike for another 2? sounds like a good manasink. definitly a limited bomb. and first pick material i think. and he also has vigilance.. hmm.. with haste he would be awesome. and btw: good thing i play boros at the pre-release
On a side note, I'd love to see a format where creature steal is common and a subtheme with cards based on "when you gain control of this" effects.
I know, shock lands are terrible, amirite?
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I'm quite positive Truefire Paladin will see constructed play. It's easily one of the better 2-drops we'll have.
Nice effect anyway; theoretically repeatable removal, but it requires him to evolve many, many times, which won't be easy. But should be good enough to steal weenies and walls
And the paladin is an ok bear. Or maybe absurdly good since it has vigilance and the pump ability is just cheap.
PS: It's a pity that the manipulator is not in the same set as Downsize or Hydrosurge; It would have been able to steal more easily.
It's can't even be applied to this creature. There are far more worst cards to top deck then a creature with a mana sink.
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That was one of my first thoughts too.
I wonder if this was originally designed as a guildmage.
I would like to see more guildmage type creatures for some other colors.
Deathrite Shaman is rather Guildmage-y.
I wish they had made a Shaman for each Guild, as well
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Hey, I got a proposal for you... if you hate this set so much, STOP PLAYING.
See, this way, you don't have to worry about what is in this set, and we don't have to listen to you whine and complain about it. It's really a Win-Win!
The "Less than or Equal To" clause means you can steal walls just fine.
Cytoplast, i mean simic manipulator is cool.
outside of aetherize). But Order of the Boros Hand looks like a decent limited beater...