Hey correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo rely on having an instant way to blow up Exquisite Blood to prevent a draw due to an uncontrollable infinite combo?
It's only infinite if your opponent has infinite life. I assume you don't usually play with opponents that have infinite life. Note that simple arbitrary life doesn't work, they need actual infinite life.
Hey correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo rely on having an instant way to blow up Exquisite Blood to prevent a draw due to an uncontrollable infinite combo?
Nope. Once the opponent is at 0 or less life, he/she loses the game due to state-based actions. The guildmage and the enchantment both have triggered abilities which use the stack. State-based effects are checked when when a player receives priority after an ability (like these) triggers.
EDIT: Also, I REALLY like this card. I've already fallen in love with the lifegain in my Dirty Bant Control deck, and this makes it so I don't even have to turn d00dz sideways to win. So I can take out those worthless Angels of Serenity and put in a real card, like this odd-looking young lady. Hmmm ... okay, maybe not. But it will make me rethink how I build my deck. Yeah, I think I'm gonna try Moldy Esper, splashing the green for Thragtusk, and making black the main color for the better removal that'll be available when the new set comes out. Yes.
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Hey correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo rely on having an instant way to blow up Exquisite Blood to prevent a draw due to an uncontrollable infinite combo?
Yeah you win if they have:
-no pithing needles
-no creature/enchantment removal whatsoever
-no skullcrack
-no slaughter games
-it's turn 6 and both of these cards stuck for the turns before
-you're not dead
-they can't kill you in response
Pretty solid win con in limited if you happen to get slipped an AVR pack.
Irrelevant. You didn't know what strictly better means, but you saw some cool people use it, so you went with it. Now you want to save face by aggressively turning it into a discussion of whether or not the charm [Dimir Charm] is standard playable, which is an altogether different discussion. Very transparent, zero points for trying.
Hey correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo rely on having an instant way to blow up Exquisite Blood to prevent a draw due to an uncontrollable infinite combo?
No, state-based actions and effects (such as losing the game for having 0 or less life) are checked every time a player would receive priority. Since the active player receives priority after each resolution of a trigger, your opponent would lose the game, thus breaking the cycle.
I'm not sure what the effect would be if some effect was causing your opponent to not lose the game (such as a Platinum Angel or your control of an Abyssal Persecutor). Neither is a "may" effect...
EDIT: Not only super Nath'd, but also duh, it would be a draw.
Nah, the combo relies on infinite triggered effects. After the resolution of any on trigger SBE are checked and your opponent will lose when they hit zero or negative life with another triggger on the stack.
Thanks, I don't usually mess with infinite combos, so just wanted to clarify. Hmm, so with that cleared up, let's see how long it takes for people to take this to the top, or to figure out if it's not reliable enough for standard?
Yeah you win if they have:
-no pithing needles
-no creature/enchantment removal whatsoever
-no skullcrack
-no slaughter games
-it's turn 6 and both of these cards stuck for the turns before
-you're not dead
-they can't kill you in response
Pretty solid win con in limited if you happen to get slipped an AVR pack.
Otherwise terrible in every other format.
(Not the guildmage just that combo)
Good thing you can run Junk or Esper and have answer for their answers. In fact, I might make it G/W/B, take it to my FNM, win with it, and start calling it Junk Jank.
Good thing you can run Junk or Esper and have answer for their answers. In fact, I might make it G/W/B, take it to my FNM, win with it, and start calling it Junk Jank.
How do you answer a slaughter games?
Or a golgari charm after youve tapped out for blood?
Or supreme verdict?
It's way too unreliable and it goes off turn 6 at the earliest.
Irrelevant. You didn't know what strictly better means, but you saw some cool people use it, so you went with it. Now you want to save face by aggressively turning it into a discussion of whether or not the charm [Dimir Charm] is standard playable, which is an altogether different discussion. Very transparent, zero points for trying.
Or a golgari charm after youve tapped out for blood?
Or supreme verdict?
It's way too unreliable and it goes off turn 6 at the earliest.
I'd rather just win by playing well.
And removal?
You know, there IS a little deck called Pillow Fort that Travis Woo advocates, that runs Bant splashing Black, and that DOES give the deck an additional win-con...
Yeah you win if they have:
-no pithing needles
-no creature/enchantment removal whatsoever
-no skullcrack
-no slaughter games
-it's turn 6 and both of these cards stuck for the turns before
-you're not dead
-they can't kill you in response
Pretty solid win con in limited if you happen to get slipped an AVR pack.
Otherwise terrible in every other format.
(Not the guildmage just that combo)
1. Pithing Needle sees little to no play, and none at all maindeck.
2. If you play it right, creature removal does exactly squat.
3. There are very few playable enchantment removal spells in standard, and even fewer playable enchantments to make people play enchantment removal in the first place.
4. Since it can't target players and isn't really efficient, Skullcrack will likely see play in exactly one deck (Mono red burn), assuming said deck even exists, which isn't all that likely.
5. Slaughter Games isn't a good card, and B/R decks tend to be aggro, making it even worse. 4 mana to not affect life totals or the board state? Umm.. No.
6. Guildmage doesn't tap, so it doesn't need to survive a turn.
7. Nothing works if you're deck. That's not really an argument.
8. If they can kill you in response, they should have killed you there turn about 99% of the time. See 7.
I'm not saying this'll actually be good. But the reasons you state are just silly.
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Decks: Standard - Rally, Modern - Kikichord, Legacy - Elves
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
After seeing what rhox faithmender's can do in a deck NOT devoted to lifegain, this might actually be a deck. Cathedral Sanctifier's maybe even a single Chalice of Life as an alternate finisher. ORzhov charm can recur sanctifiers. If you want to splash in green you get centaur healer and thragtusk.
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The most often misspelled word on these forums is ROGUE. Let me clarify, ROUGE, is something your mother puts on her face to keep her looking pretty. ROGUE is the word you're looking for.
Another fun card for the combo: Cathedral Sanctifier. One mana life gain creature, slows the opponent down and is returnable at instant speed with Orzhov Charm to trigger the combo.
I hear combos based on 5-mana enchantments that don't affect the board are super-reliable.
I heard than heavy extort decks can resist a lot and suck anyone's lives just by landing down creatures, removals and stuff. 5-mana enchantments are just for making the Victory Dance.
The Comic Sans says more about this post than I ever could.
LOL I'm unsure of what does that mean
.
.
.
Ahem, anyway. Extort IMO is the most complete mechanic on the set, your cheap creatures are still a good draw in mid-game, since you use the extra to extort as much as you're able to. I don't see Orzhov to have a hard-time resisting while they can just summon the 2 things and make their combo.
It's only infinite if your opponent has infinite life. I assume you don't usually play with opponents that have infinite life. Note that simple arbitrary life doesn't work, they need actual infinite life.
Nope. Once the opponent is at 0 or less life, he/she loses the game due to state-based actions. The guildmage and the enchantment both have triggered abilities which use the stack. State-based effects are checked when when a player receives priority after an ability (like these) triggers.
EDIT: Also, I REALLY like this card. I've already fallen in love with the lifegain in my Dirty Bant Control deck, and this makes it so I don't even have to turn d00dz sideways to win. So I can take out those worthless Angels of Serenity and put in a real card, like this odd-looking young lady. Hmmm ... okay, maybe not. But it will make me rethink how I build my deck. Yeah, I think I'm gonna try Moldy Esper, splashing the green for Thragtusk, and making black the main color for the better removal that'll be available when the new set comes out. Yes.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
You are at 2. You healing salve. I bolt you.
I win.
You are at 2. You put some crazy infinite loop onto the stack. I bolt you.
I win.
I don't understand
Once the opponent hits 0 it's game over no?
-no pithing needles
-no creature/enchantment removal whatsoever
-no skullcrack
-no slaughter games
-it's turn 6 and both of these cards stuck for the turns before
-you're not dead
-they can't kill you in response
Pretty solid win con in limited if you happen to get slipped an AVR pack.
Otherwise terrible in every other format.
(Not the guildmage just that combo)
No, state-based actions and effects (such as losing the game for having 0 or less life) are checked every time a player would receive priority. Since the active player receives priority after each resolution of a trigger, your opponent would lose the game, thus breaking the cycle.
I'm not sure what the effect would be if some effect was causing your opponent to not lose the game (such as a Platinum Angel or your control of an Abyssal Persecutor). Neither is a "may" effect...
EDIT: Not only super Nath'd, but also duh, it would be a draw.
Modern - UG Mana Denial GU
. . . . . . .
WBG Melira Pod GBWCommander - BR Olivia Voldaren RB Vampire Tribal
. . . . . . . . . WUB Sharuum the Hegemon BUW Not-Broken Artifact Midrange
. . . . . . . . . WUG Rafiq of the Many GUW Voltron
. . . . . . . . . . .UB Oona, Queen of the Fae BU No-combo Tempo-Mill
. . . . . . . . . WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic BUW Pillow Fort
Thanks, I don't usually mess with infinite combos, so just wanted to clarify. Hmm, so with that cleared up, let's see how long it takes for people to take this to the top, or to figure out if it's not reliable enough for standard?
Come on and check it out. You know you want to.
Good thing you can run Junk or Esper and have answer for their answers. In fact, I might make it G/W/B, take it to my FNM, win with it, and start calling it Junk Jank.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
How do you answer a slaughter games?
Or a golgari charm after youve tapped out for blood?
Or supreme verdict?
It's way too unreliable and it goes off turn 6 at the earliest.
I'd rather just win by playing well.
And removal?
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
1. Pithing Needle sees little to no play, and none at all maindeck.
2. If you play it right, creature removal does exactly squat.
3. There are very few playable enchantment removal spells in standard, and even fewer playable enchantments to make people play enchantment removal in the first place.
4. Since it can't target players and isn't really efficient, Skullcrack will likely see play in exactly one deck (Mono red burn), assuming said deck even exists, which isn't all that likely.
5. Slaughter Games isn't a good card, and B/R decks tend to be aggro, making it even worse. 4 mana to not affect life totals or the board state? Umm.. No.
6. Guildmage doesn't tap, so it doesn't need to survive a turn.
7. Nothing works if you're deck. That's not really an argument.
8. If they can kill you in response, they should have killed you there turn about 99% of the time. See 7.
I'm not saying this'll actually be good. But the reasons you state are just silly.
Commmander - Eight-and-a-Half Tails; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; Prime Speaker Zegana; Alesha, Who Smiles at Death; Daxos the Returned; Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest; Patron of the Moonfolk; Animar, Soul of Elements
I'm pretty sure many BW decks will try to run this combo
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
This deck will be awesome.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Yes, it would
I heard than heavy extort decks can resist a lot and suck anyone's lives just by landing down creatures, removals and stuff. 5-mana enchantments are just for making the Victory Dance.
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
The Comic Sans says more about this post than I ever could.
Standard: W/R Aggro
LOL I'm unsure of what does that mean
.
.
.
Ahem, anyway. Extort IMO is the most complete mechanic on the set, your cheap creatures are still a good draw in mid-game, since you use the extra to extort as much as you're able to. I don't see Orzhov to have a hard-time resisting while they can just summon the 2 things and make their combo.
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!