Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
If you don't think Mind Grind is viable in standard, I really don't know what to tell you.
I know what to tell to those people: they are better at card evaluation than you are.
Turn 9-10 Mind Grind for 7-8 milling 20-30 cards. Decks right now get to turn 10 and Sphinx's revelation for 7, why wouldn't you KNOW Mind Grind is going to see play? I can understand people being ignorant to it but don't be blind.
Turn 5 Traumatize mills ~24 cards, and guess what, it wasn't good enough when it was in standard. You're delusional, ignorant, blind and also full of yourself. Mind Grind is just a multiplayer mill toy (and limited bomb of course), nothing more.
I know what to tell to those people: they are better at card evaluation than you are.
Turn 5 Traumatize mills ~24 cards, and guess what, it wasn't good enough when it was in standard. You're delusional, ignorant, blind and also full of yourself. Mind Grind is just a multiplayer mill toy (and limited bomb of course), nothing more.
Probably because Traumatize had very little support. Citing completely unrelated examples doesn't help your argument at all.
Not surprised with the Boros keyrune. People called it earlier. Still a 1/2 would've been nice. The Dimir cards look really nice. I wonder if mill will be playable in Standard or not. Mind Grind could be better or worse than Mind Funeral.
People keep using that term incorrectly. Like "timewalking X" people use wrong.
In fairness, it seems like half the people think "strictly better" means "there are no circumstances in which card A is worse than card B", which would make it a totally worthless term because then it would never apply to any form of card evaluation. Even WotC R&D prefers to use "strictly better" to mean "card A is better than card B in all reasonable situations". Bolt is strictly better than Shock, for example, because the only situations in which Shock is better involve silly things like "you've been Mindslavered - which card would you rather have in your hand?"
Of course, Mind Grind and Mind Funeral is one of those situations where neither card is strictly better than the other. Even in heads-up play, the fact that X can equal more than 4 means that there are reasonable situations in which one would rather have Mind Grind in their hand than Mind Funeral and vice versa.
Clearing up things: Angelic Destiny is pretty much strictly better than Divine Transformation.
Lightning bolt is strictly better than shock, and it is vaguely similar to Blaze but they fulfill different roles. (cheap burn vs X scalable)
Golgari Decoy is often a better card than Prized Unicorn.
Mind Funeral is often a better card than Mind Grind in a duel format, but they fulfill different roles. I can see a mill deck being full of Glimpse the Unthinkable and Archive Trap and Snapcaster and Mind Funeral, or I can see a very defensive deck using Axebane Guardian, Hover Barrier, Ogre Gatecrasher, and Mind Grind as a win condition.
They are both good cards, and it's silly to say things like "In general, X is better" because the format is not defined and cards don't exist in a vacuum.
Now that that's cleared up, how about this Cipher Followed Footsteps? Play it on an invisible stalker, copy your thragtusk twice?
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Proud Member of the "Help Fblthp Get Home in DGM" Society
In fairness, it seems like half the people think "strictly better" means "there are no circumstances in which card A is worse than card B", which would make it a totally worthless term because then it would never apply to any form of card evaluation. Even WotC R&D prefers to use "strictly better" to mean "card A is better than card B in all reasonable situations". Bolt is strictly better than Shock, for example, because the only situations in which Shock is better involve silly things like "you've been Mindslavered - which card would you rather have in your hand?"
Of course, Mind Grind and Mind Funeral is one of those situations where neither card is strictly better than the other. Even in heads-up play, the fact that X can equal more than 4 means that there are reasonable situations in which one would rather have Mind Grind in their hand than Mind Funeral and vice versa.
"Strictly better" does mean "There is no situation in which card A is worse than card B" regardless of how extreme the corner cases might be. However, as you say, this definition doesn't apply very well to magic cards, and so it slightly altered to include "in all reasonable play scenarios"
That being said, Mind Grind will still most likely see play in Standard (where Mind Funeral is not legal) simply because it is still a potent milling card. There are already a lot of reasonably strong milling mechanics so you can most likely make a deck out of it post-gatecrash.
"Strictly better" does mean "There is no situation in which card A is worse than card B" regardless of how extreme the corner cases might be. However, as you say, this definition doesn't apply very well to magic cards, and so it slightly altered to include "in all reasonable play scenarios"
That being said, Mind Grind will still most likely see play in Standard (where Mind Funeral is not legal) simply because it is still a potent milling card. There are already a lot of reasonably strong milling mechanics so you can most likely make a deck out of it post-gatecrash.
Wow... Mind Grind is nuts...I can definitely see Dimir Mill being a deck...
A quick question on Stolen Identity. If I have SI encoded onto an invisible stalker, and then choose the Invisible Stalker as the target for SI, does the token gain any encoded spells or does it etb as a fresh copy?
So let me see if I got this right. Artifact or creature? I can cypher the spell into the newly created token?[/CARD].
Not unless you have another Stolen Identity in your hand-
the Encode doesn't get copied onto the token by default.
EDIT: Sorry, not sure if I fully understood.
If you're asking if you can Cipher this spell onto the token it creates when you cast it,
I believe the answer is "yes,"
but it doesn't create some exponentially increasing army like some people believe.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
EDIT: Sorry, not sure if I fully understood.
If you're asking if you can Cipher this spell onto the token it creates when you cast it,
I believe the answer is "yes,"
but it doesn't create some exponentially increasing army like some people believe.
That's what I meant. Like, I cast SI targeting an opponent's Hellkite Charger, then cyphering the spell into the Hellkite token.
Private Mod Note
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Commander:GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (list) - U Talrand, Sky Summoner - GRU Maelstrom Wanderer
Hypersonic Dragon+Niv-Mizzet+Stolen Identity seems like a great combo to me. You can potentially have 4 Hypersonic Drakes and Niv-Mizzet attacking on turn 7 after dealing 3 damage directly and drawing 3 cards.
Wait... I just figured out the weird wording of Stolen Idenity's Cipher mechanic...
For some reason i can't wait to animate a Dimir Keyrune, cast stolen identity copying the keyrune, cipher SI onto the first keyrune, and swing to generate a third keyrune.
For some reason i can't wait to animate a Dimir Keyrune, cast stolen identity copying the keyrune, cipher SI onto the first keyrune, and swing to generate a third keyrune.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
For those freaking out about mind grind it's a 6 mana mind funeral. Comparatively it's pretty bad actually.
Thanks for pointing this out. Nobody else had realized that in the first 14 pages. It's still a better card for multiplayer, since it hits every opponent instead of just one. And it scales better into the late game. There are enough (reasonable) mill cards at low CMCs already that designing a large oneshot X-cost mill card to close out a longer game is not an unreasonable thing for Wizards to do
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
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QFT.
The Time Walk thing *really* grates me-
when you get Time Walked, you don't get to draw a card, play a land, or attack.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I know what to tell to those people: they are better at card evaluation than you are.
Turn 5 Traumatize mills ~24 cards, and guess what, it wasn't good enough when it was in standard. You're delusional, ignorant, blind and also full of yourself. Mind Grind is just a multiplayer mill toy (and limited bomb of course), nothing more.
Probably because Traumatize had very little support. Citing completely unrelated examples doesn't help your argument at all.
@Greenlexluther: yes.
Standard: W/R Aggro
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
In fairness, it seems like half the people think "strictly better" means "there are no circumstances in which card A is worse than card B", which would make it a totally worthless term because then it would never apply to any form of card evaluation. Even WotC R&D prefers to use "strictly better" to mean "card A is better than card B in all reasonable situations". Bolt is strictly better than Shock, for example, because the only situations in which Shock is better involve silly things like "you've been Mindslavered - which card would you rather have in your hand?"
Of course, Mind Grind and Mind Funeral is one of those situations where neither card is strictly better than the other. Even in heads-up play, the fact that X can equal more than 4 means that there are reasonable situations in which one would rather have Mind Grind in their hand than Mind Funeral and vice versa.
........................
Lightning bolt is strictly better than shock, and it is vaguely similar to Blaze but they fulfill different roles. (cheap burn vs X scalable)
Golgari Decoy is often a better card than Prized Unicorn.
Mind Funeral is often a better card than Mind Grind in a duel format, but they fulfill different roles. I can see a mill deck being full of Glimpse the Unthinkable and Archive Trap and Snapcaster and Mind Funeral, or I can see a very defensive deck using Axebane Guardian, Hover Barrier, Ogre Gatecrasher, and Mind Grind as a win condition.
They are both good cards, and it's silly to say things like "In general, X is better" because the format is not defined and cards don't exist in a vacuum.
Now that that's cleared up, how about this Cipher Followed Footsteps? Play it on an invisible stalker, copy your thragtusk twice?
Proud Member of the "Help Fblthp Get Home in DGM" Society
"Strictly better" does mean "There is no situation in which card A is worse than card B" regardless of how extreme the corner cases might be. However, as you say, this definition doesn't apply very well to magic cards, and so it slightly altered to include "in all reasonable play scenarios"
That being said, Mind Grind will still most likely see play in Standard (where Mind Funeral is not legal) simply because it is still a potent milling card. There are already a lot of reasonably strong milling mechanics so you can most likely make a deck out of it post-gatecrash.
And a few others, certainly enough to create a deck with a reasonable clock.
Dont forget the Duskmantle Guildmage. With him you only have to mill 20 cards to win the game(without life gaining).
A quick question on Stolen Identity. If I have SI encoded onto an invisible stalker, and then choose the Invisible Stalker as the target for SI, does the token gain any encoded spells or does it etb as a fresh copy?
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
Not unless you have another Stolen Identity in your hand-
the Encode doesn't get copied onto the token by default.
EDIT: Sorry, not sure if I fully understood.
If you're asking if you can Cipher this spell onto the token it creates when you cast it,
I believe the answer is "yes,"
but it doesn't create some exponentially increasing army like some people believe.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
That's what I meant. Like, I cast SI targeting an opponent's Hellkite Charger, then cyphering the spell into the Hellkite token.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
Wait... I just figured out the weird wording of Stolen Idenity's Cipher mechanic...
DCI Level 1 Judge
Heh, Dimir Ramp!
Too bad it's so costly...
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Thanks for pointing this out. Nobody else had realized that in the first 14 pages. It's still a better card for multiplayer, since it hits every opponent instead of just one. And it scales better into the late game. There are enough (reasonable) mill cards at low CMCs already that designing a large oneshot X-cost mill card to close out a longer game is not an unreasonable thing for Wizards to do
Hmm.. No. Only 5 x rares confirms that cycle =p
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Not necessarily-
One could look at Epic Experiment, Sphinx's Revelation, and Rakdos's Return,
and reasonably assume a cycle, but it was not complete.
That said, I hope this one is.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW