Ispiration can't block/eat removal/be protected to draw more cards/become a fattie after some draws. Also inspiration cost is the same.
The problem with people here is that they assume that new cards must be news JTMS. Good cards are trated as junk because they're not awesomely powerful.
People underated the new Jace, underated Angel of Serenity, underated Sphinx's Revelation, underated Deathrite Shaman. And they're all seeing play, different from the "this isn't constructed playable" people claimed.
This creature have great potential, people just need to think outside of the box. I'm not saying that it will surely see play and is a 4 of in all decks.
It already have great potential to be explored, and we have only 2 simic cards.
BTW.: if simcic brings more good "when a counter is placed" triggers, it might make Undying Evil playable on a BUG list.
Finally some sense in this thread.
I'll try her on my EDH deck, might give me some more card advantage.
I like it, but I'm hopelessly in love with card drawing engines. Anytime I play a game of magic and have a full on card drawing engine online, I just win. That's what a huge surplus of extra cards does. It wins.
First point I want to make on this card, if you're playing it on T4, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple. Your oppo is on R/B aggro, Maybe you farseek'd on T2 if your life is awesome. You're taking swings though, and things might even be looking grim. What do you do? I'm sure your hand is full of options, it's T3, and you have 4 mana! You can do things! Oh, I know! I'll just tap out for this 1/1 that will literally do nothing. Then die. Then cry. Then wonder why.
No, if you're at all any good at this game, you play a card that has this kind of potential for power in a couple different situations. 1. You're already pushing threats and running your oppo out of removal. Now you drop this guy. When you're Neck and Neck, or ahead, he'll just close the game. He absolutely demands an immediate answer, or you just savagery him for a super tidings and a huge body. Forces bad play from the other guy, and pulls his removal off the other random beater you have smashing him in the face(Like a thrags. Yes, you can actually play these cards together even!). Savagery than actually gets better because the other guy points removal at your engine, and doesn't then have removal for your flyer that just got 5/5 bigger. 2. Play this in a situation where you're a little more all in on it, and cast it when you can protect it. If you're playing Bant, you get to the late game. Like....always. That is just what Bant does. Sweepers, life, counters, draw, thrags, etc...Cast this when you have the mana to make sure it sticks around, draws you cards, and get's huge. Even a Evos Ile is fine. Maybe you run both rings. You now have a Gigantic, card drawing, untargetable, trampling monstrosity.
I just think it's wrong to automatically windmill slam "BAD" on a card capable of synergizing well with a deck concept while being a game winning engine. Incremental advantage is a ***** :/.
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Ispiration can't block/eat removal/be protected to draw more cards/become a fattie after some draws. Also inspiration cost is the same.
The problem with people here is that they assume that new cards must be news JTMS. Good cards are trated as junk because they're not awesomely powerful.
People underated the new Jace, underated Angel of Serenity, underated Sphinx's Revelation, underated Deathrite Shaman. And they're all seeing play, different from the "this isn't constructed playable" people claimed.
This creature have great potential, people just need to think outside of the box. I'm not saying that it will surely see play and is a 4 of in all decks.
It already have great potential to be explored, and we have only 2 simic cards.
BTW.: if simcic brings more good "when a counter is placed" triggers, it might make Undying Evil playable on a BUG list.
Those cards were entering into a fresh new undifined standard. That is not the case right now. Thragtusk and resto angel are being dropped on the same turn as this guy. While you spend another 2-3 cards to get value out of this 1/1 I will already be up 2-3 cards and attacking you.
It is a limited rare. This will not see constructed play. Evolve itself id a very weak constrcted mechanic. One of them might see standard play like most mechanics they make now.
Ehh, I'm not convinced this card is any good. Seems a lot like Beguiler of Wills or Soul Seizer. High CC cards with interesting abilities tacked onto weak bodies don't see any play. Most decks don't have any problem dealing with a 1/1 by turn 3-4. And if you stuff your deck full of silly tricks to try and draw cards, you'll be getting 2 for 1'ed all day when you try and pull the trick.
I predict this will be the rare I open 20 of.
There are four things which make this card potentially playable and not in the same league than the cards you've mentioned:
1) Fathom Mage generates quick and effective card advantage in the late game. It's not going to be a beater strait away, but it can net you "free" extra draws in the late game.
2) It gets bigger and triggers easily, play this in a Bant deck, then drop a Restoration Angle, blinking a Centaur Healer, and you gain 3 life, draw 2 cards and have three 3/3 on the board. Drop a Thragtusk the next turn and you gain another 5 life and draw another card, with a 4/4 on the table. Add in cards like Loxodon Smiter and Sigarda, you could have a great deck in the works.
3) It triggers whenever it has a +1/+1 counter put on it, not just when it evolves. So it plays well with mechanics like scavenge or cards that put +1/+1 counters on creatures.
4) In the Ravnica/ RtR and older formats, it has amazing synergy with graft. Drop this card, move a few +1/+1 counters onto it and draw a few cards. A 3/3 for 4 that lets your draw two cards when it comes into play is brokenly powerful. A 4/4, which let's you draw 3 cards more even more so.
This card also has 2 big weaknesses.
1) It's a 1/1 four drop, that has no natural protection from removal. That is not good, but if there are cards which can protect it, and some good ramp (which I really hope we get) then it can be played.
2) You lose tempo on the turn you play it, unless you can trigger it immediately - not impossible to do, but it requires some good deck building. That said, cards like Restoration Angel, Centaur Healer and Thragtusk allow for this delay in Bant.
These two weaknesses combined mean that you can easily waste the 4 drop in your game. However, if you pull it off it will win you games. It certainly is worth experimenting with. In Bant there are enough good creatures and token generators to play around it. Thragtusk works particularly well, because it allows you to not block on turn 4, and nets you an extra card or two on turn 5. BUG has some interesting combos too, even RUG could make use of it.
She's sort of a mini Soul of the Harvest. There isn't an abundance of removal in the format. If she were 3CC, I'd say instantly that she's very constructed playable in Bant Midrange. 4 is the real killer simply because you can't turn 2 her off a Pilgrim. I think at rare they should have made her 3CC and it wouldn't have broken the format or anything.
Those cards were entering into a fresh new undifined standard. That is not the case right now. Thragtusk and resto angel are being dropped on the same turn as this guy. While you spend another 2-3 cards to get value out of this 1/1 I will already be up 2-3 cards and attacking you.
It is a limited rare. This will not see constructed play. Evolve itself id a very weak constrcted mechanic. One of them might see standard play like most mechanics they make now.
Im sorry, but all I play is constructed and EDH and what you said is just wrong. We have seen 2 cards with this and we can presume several more will follow. This isnt some costed gy mechanic thats usually far over priced for a measly 2-3 counters. It's constant and built in. It scales with play right from the word go.
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I imagine we'll see creatures with Evolve having high power/toughness almost as a drawback. Might see some powerful vanilla creatures in there reasonably costed. Maybe a Smiterish 4/4 for 1UG with Evolve.
I think it's cool that this card plays SO well with the old Simic mechanic. Just having Llanowar Reborn or a Vigean Hydropon in play when you cast this makes it more than enough value to be playable.
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1) Fathom Mage generates quick and effective card advantage in the late game. It's not going to be a beater strait away, but it can net you "free" extra draws in the late game.
It *might* net you a free draw. The might there is pretty important. If it drew a card when it etb and had it's ability, that would be a different story. It's just like Beguiler of Wills or Soul Seizer, they might let you steal a creature. Most of the time, they don't. They just die.
2) It gets bigger and triggers easily, play this in a Bant deck, then drop a Restoration Angle, in response your opponent uses any number of kill spells to get rid of your 1/1.
That's what I'd see happening. Sure in Magical Christmas Tree land, your scenario could work, and in Magical Christamas Tree Land I could play an Izzet deck with Fervor and then play Beguiler of Wills then soulbond it with Galvanic Alchemist then get an infinite mana combo on board and steal everything in the game. That doesn't make Beguiler of Wills a good card or that deck a good deck.
3) It triggers whenever it has a +1/+1 counter put on it, not just when it evolves. So it plays well with mechanics like scavenge or cards that put +1/+1 counters on creatures.
You mean it dies when you tries and put a counter on it and you get 2 for 1'ed
4) In the Ravnica/ RtR and older formats, it has amazing synergy with graft. Drop this card, move a few +1/+1 counters onto it and draw a few cards. A 3/3 for 4 that lets your draw two cards when it comes into play is brokenly powerful. A 4/4, which let's you draw 3 cards more even more so.
Or I could play any of the other insanely better draw options available in Modern that aren't stapled to a 1/1 body that costs 4
There's just to many bad things about it. If it cost 3, or if it had hexproof, or if it drew a card when ANYTHING got a counter, or drew a card when it ETB'd, then there would be potential there. As it is, it's Beguiler of Wills 2.0 - powerful ability stapled on a bad card.
I know there are people who yearn for every spoiled card to be good, I get it it, and that's fine to want it to be good, but you have to evaluate the card for what it is, not what you want it to be or what you think it might be. Maybe there's some card yet to be spoiled that makes this a bomb, who knows. But based on what is known, it's not good
Just imagining this card with Increasing Savagery makes me a little wet.
And I'm not going to say that this isn't constructed playable, since those words should never be stated ever about anything, because as I keep trying to say: You literally never know.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
Pretty cool ability for Simic. Can allow a deck to "Burn out" and mill yourself if you Evolve too much and too fast, just like in real life. So in theroy, you want to increase your win you might have to take a hit form a very waterd down version of puctuated equilibrum or you will lose to mill decks becuse you cannot create stasis on yourself.
Simic is going to be my best friend this set. I've always loved UG cards, and this one makes me incredibly happy. Beautiful art, fun effect... Cannot wait to see what else Simic has in store!
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when i think of simic, i honestly think of things like mystic snake,tribe elder(and his u/g "variant") and eternal witness. im not really a fan of this keyword. and these simic cards honestly dont feel THAT simiccy to me.
thankfully, i love the guilds A LOT more in GTC than the 1s in RtR. im REALLY looking forward to dimir(but ill probably be disappointed because of how magic is moving towards creature based everything), simic, and orzhov. and i dont really like boros but i am willing to give it a chance.... and gruul just seems boring to me.
Would've liked this card a lot more at 1GU or GUU or GGU. As-is, it's gimmicky and really only suited for casual/limited. I do like the +1/+1 antics potential plenty, but really, the 4-drop slot is completely crowded in decks that would want to play something like this right now. Maybe more of the set will help it out, but as-is, this is a horrible topdeck, and doesn't come down early enough to balance the tempo loss of a 1/1 for 4 mana. Increasing Savagery is hilarious, but honestly, I'd rather play big creatures and Garruk 3.0 or just Jace 4.0.
She would work with an Elgaud Shieldmate I think. But then again, that's two four-mana drops, probably taking two turns. She's definitely got the feel of a Daggerdrome imp. Weak early, but if you can stack effects on her late game, she can definitely let you get the tools to do things.
Scenario: You hold her in your hand for later, play on turn 9 or 10. Your opponent doesn't have removal after using it all to board stall. Suddenly, you can flashback increasing savagery or graft onto her. Now, you have the bomb you need to play next turn, as well as some counterspells. Maybe even thinning the deck of lands.
when i think of simic, i honestly think of things like mystic snake,tribe elder(and his u/g "variant") and eternal witness. im not really a fan of this keyword. and these simic cards honestly dont feel THAT simiccy to me.
thankfully, i love the guilds A LOT more in GTC than the 1s in RtR. im REALLY looking forward to dimir(but ill probably be disappointed because of how magic is moving towards creature based everything), simic, and orzhov. and i dont really like boros but i am willing to give it a chance.... and gruul just seems boring to me.
I felt the same way about the Golgari...at first. When I think of simic, I think of smart fatties. I think of Omnibian, Kraj, Simic Sky Swallower, I think of creatures that in the day were dreaded. Plaxmanta and Frogling aside.
Point Im making is Simic wasn't just popular for Graft. Frankly Im anxious to see cards without Evolve for the Simic, and how they foster growth in the wee folk.
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Am I the only one who thinks that this card is sort of broken?
What's broken about it? The casting cost ensures you can't just near immediately draw like a crazy person, even with ramp and a mostly creatures deck. It can be easily destroyed, and in response to it's trigger nonetheless.
I'm mainly framing this in the context of Standard, as for modern/legacy, yeah, maybe a little more freedom there. Doesn't seem broken though, just has a potent/abusable ability. It's a combo card. Johnnytastic.
Hum... I like this evolve mechanic. Seems like a nice nod to Graft. Maybe the two together will work well.
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Hum... I like this evolve mechanic. Seems like a nice nod to Graft. Maybe the two together will work well.
Since we are seeing +1/+1 counter matters, the former enables the latter. Great designing, Wizards, great design.
But, still, want to know badly the other mechanics.
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Nothing. All I want is Heroes vs. Monsters spoilers.
As I read this thread, what I feared has come true. Not that spoilers have started for real, (that's great and I'm loving the simic feel) but that the onslaught of "this isn't viable because pro tours blah blah blah thundermaw Geist Geist thragtusk rakdos." Everyone just get in the spirit of the Christmas season and GIVE a bit of hope to people who want to try this new "jank" out. Who knows. Maybe there will be a surprise.
Finally some sense in this thread.
I'll try her on my EDH deck, might give me some more card advantage.
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First point I want to make on this card, if you're playing it on T4, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple. Your oppo is on R/B aggro, Maybe you farseek'd on T2 if your life is awesome. You're taking swings though, and things might even be looking grim. What do you do? I'm sure your hand is full of options, it's T3, and you have 4 mana! You can do things! Oh, I know! I'll just tap out for this 1/1 that will literally do nothing. Then die. Then cry. Then wonder why.
No, if you're at all any good at this game, you play a card that has this kind of potential for power in a couple different situations. 1. You're already pushing threats and running your oppo out of removal. Now you drop this guy. When you're Neck and Neck, or ahead, he'll just close the game. He absolutely demands an immediate answer, or you just savagery him for a super tidings and a huge body. Forces bad play from the other guy, and pulls his removal off the other random beater you have smashing him in the face(Like a thrags. Yes, you can actually play these cards together even!). Savagery than actually gets better because the other guy points removal at your engine, and doesn't then have removal for your flyer that just got 5/5 bigger. 2. Play this in a situation where you're a little more all in on it, and cast it when you can protect it. If you're playing Bant, you get to the late game. Like....always. That is just what Bant does. Sweepers, life, counters, draw, thrags, etc...Cast this when you have the mana to make sure it sticks around, draws you cards, and get's huge. Even a Evos Ile is fine. Maybe you run both rings. You now have a Gigantic, card drawing, untargetable, trampling monstrosity.
I just think it's wrong to automatically windmill slam "BAD" on a card capable of synergizing well with a deck concept while being a game winning engine. Incremental advantage is a ***** :/.
Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself, which is more dangerous then to copy others. It leads to sterility. – Pablo Picasso
Those cards were entering into a fresh new undifined standard. That is not the case right now. Thragtusk and resto angel are being dropped on the same turn as this guy. While you spend another 2-3 cards to get value out of this 1/1 I will already be up 2-3 cards and attacking you.
It is a limited rare. This will not see constructed play. Evolve itself id a very weak constrcted mechanic. One of them might see standard play like most mechanics they make now.
There are four things which make this card potentially playable and not in the same league than the cards you've mentioned:
1) Fathom Mage generates quick and effective card advantage in the late game. It's not going to be a beater strait away, but it can net you "free" extra draws in the late game.
2) It gets bigger and triggers easily, play this in a Bant deck, then drop a Restoration Angle, blinking a Centaur Healer, and you gain 3 life, draw 2 cards and have three 3/3 on the board. Drop a Thragtusk the next turn and you gain another 5 life and draw another card, with a 4/4 on the table. Add in cards like Loxodon Smiter and Sigarda, you could have a great deck in the works.
3) It triggers whenever it has a +1/+1 counter put on it, not just when it evolves. So it plays well with mechanics like scavenge or cards that put +1/+1 counters on creatures.
4) In the Ravnica/ RtR and older formats, it has amazing synergy with graft. Drop this card, move a few +1/+1 counters onto it and draw a few cards. A 3/3 for 4 that lets your draw two cards when it comes into play is brokenly powerful. A 4/4, which let's you draw 3 cards more even more so.
This card also has 2 big weaknesses.
1) It's a 1/1 four drop, that has no natural protection from removal. That is not good, but if there are cards which can protect it, and some good ramp (which I really hope we get) then it can be played.
2) You lose tempo on the turn you play it, unless you can trigger it immediately - not impossible to do, but it requires some good deck building. That said, cards like Restoration Angel, Centaur Healer and Thragtusk allow for this delay in Bant.
These two weaknesses combined mean that you can easily waste the 4 drop in your game. However, if you pull it off it will win you games. It certainly is worth experimenting with. In Bant there are enough good creatures and token generators to play around it. Thragtusk works particularly well, because it allows you to not block on turn 4, and nets you an extra card or two on turn 5. BUG has some interesting combos too, even RUG could make use of it.
Im sorry, but all I play is constructed and EDH and what you said is just wrong. We have seen 2 cards with this and we can presume several more will follow. This isnt some costed gy mechanic thats usually far over priced for a measly 2-3 counters. It's constant and built in. It scales with play right from the word go.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
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It *might* net you a free draw. The might there is pretty important. If it drew a card when it etb and had it's ability, that would be a different story. It's just like Beguiler of Wills or Soul Seizer, they might let you steal a creature. Most of the time, they don't. They just die.
That's what I'd see happening. Sure in Magical Christmas Tree land, your scenario could work, and in Magical Christamas Tree Land I could play an Izzet deck with Fervor and then play Beguiler of Wills then soulbond it with Galvanic Alchemist then get an infinite mana combo on board and steal everything in the game. That doesn't make Beguiler of Wills a good card or that deck a good deck.
You mean it dies when you tries and put a counter on it and you get 2 for 1'ed
Or I could play any of the other insanely better draw options available in Modern that aren't stapled to a 1/1 body that costs 4
There's just to many bad things about it. If it cost 3, or if it had hexproof, or if it drew a card when ANYTHING got a counter, or drew a card when it ETB'd, then there would be potential there. As it is, it's Beguiler of Wills 2.0 - powerful ability stapled on a bad card.
I know there are people who yearn for every spoiled card to be good, I get it it, and that's fine to want it to be good, but you have to evaluate the card for what it is, not what you want it to be or what you think it might be. Maybe there's some card yet to be spoiled that makes this a bomb, who knows. But based on what is known, it's not good
And I'm not going to say that this isn't constructed playable, since those words should never be stated ever about anything, because as I keep trying to say: You literally never know.
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thankfully, i love the guilds A LOT more in GTC than the 1s in RtR. im REALLY looking forward to dimir(but ill probably be disappointed because of how magic is moving towards creature based everything), simic, and orzhov. and i dont really like boros but i am willing to give it a chance.... and gruul just seems boring to me.
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Scenario: You hold her in your hand for later, play on turn 9 or 10. Your opponent doesn't have removal after using it all to board stall. Suddenly, you can flashback increasing savagery or graft onto her. Now, you have the bomb you need to play next turn, as well as some counterspells. Maybe even thinning the deck of lands.
This is exactly what I was thinking. And if we see more countermagic or other flash cards in those colors, it might even be workable in Standard.
It would need some more support first though.
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I felt the same way about the Golgari...at first. When I think of simic, I think of smart fatties. I think of Omnibian, Kraj, Simic Sky Swallower, I think of creatures that in the day were dreaded. Plaxmanta and Frogling aside.
Point Im making is Simic wasn't just popular for Graft. Frankly Im anxious to see cards without Evolve for the Simic, and how they foster growth in the wee folk.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
What's broken about it? The casting cost ensures you can't just near immediately draw like a crazy person, even with ramp and a mostly creatures deck. It can be easily destroyed, and in response to it's trigger nonetheless.
I'm mainly framing this in the context of Standard, as for modern/legacy, yeah, maybe a little more freedom there. Doesn't seem broken though, just has a potent/abusable ability. It's a combo card. Johnnytastic.
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Since we are seeing +1/+1 counter matters, the former enables the latter. Great designing, Wizards, great design.
But, still, want to know badly the other mechanics.
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