Which is likely where this card has the greatest chance to do something awesome. Since we don't have the specifics of Evolve yet, I'm not sure if it checks P/T upon resolution as well. If it doesn't, then it will almost certainly be a powerful 1 of in Glory's Rise decks.
It does. The reminder text uses and intervening if clause, which checks both on trigger and on resolution.
Would be very very surprised if this is standard playable.
To make this card very powerful youd need your deck to have a ton of add counter effects.. Most of which are not very good in decks outside aggressive decks.
You want your curve topping out strong in aggressive decks, not playing a durdly creature that will just <rape> your tempo if he doesnt live until the next turn.
Really sweet in limited if the format is similar to RTR and/or there is a increasing savagery type card at uncommon.
Ok my new janky combo deck for fnm is play angel of glories rise with the normal stuff (Chronic flodding, peddler,staticaster,huntmaster) plus this guy and lab maniac. reanimate, draw my whole deck and win.
Well I'm glad I picked up a playset of the U/G lands from Innistrad. I'm still waiting to see how powerful the other mechanics will be. I remember people at my local game store saying that Populate and Overload were going to dominate the Standard meta. I'd like to see how everything plays out after the first major tournament with Gatecrash
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Due to Evolve's wording, the Reanimangel combo will not be able to abuse it since it is a conditional triggered ability, which means it will check for the legality of the trigger twice: while entering the stack, and on resolution. At any of those times, if the [if] clause is not met, the ability will be removed from the stack.
I. E. You cast Angel of Glory's Rise, and it's triggered ability goes to the stack. In your graveyard you have a Fiend Hunter, two Precint Captain, one Riders of Gavony, one Fathom Mage and one Borderland Ranger.
The six creatures enter the battlefield at the same time. The Evolve triggered ability on Fathom Mage triggers 5 times, twice for the Captains and one for Riders of Gavony and Borderland Ranger, respectively, plus one for the Fiend Hunter. When you start resolving the triggers, you can only put two +1/+1 counters on the GTC rare, and it even depends on how do you send those triggers to the stack.
You'll need to put those triggers on highest-to-lowest-power/toughness order: first the Riders' one, then Fiend Hunter, then the Ranger and both Precint. The last one (Precint's) will resolve, putting one counter on Fathom Mage and triggering its second ability. Once you draw, the next two triggers (Ranger's and the second Precint) will do nothing as now, Fathom Mage has the same power as both. Then, the next trigger (Hunter's) will resolve, putting a second +1/+1 counter and netting you a second card. The last trigger (Riders') won't resolve since now the creature is a 3/3.
The card is a Johnny one, with some potential in limited but practically useless (given its current context) on Constructed Standard.
EDIT: For clarity and correctness. Reference for this is the 603.4 rule in the Comprehensive Rules.
If X>3 you'll only put 3 counters on it and draw 3 cards, it does not matter how much do you pay for X. (Evolve is a conditional ability, if the conditions for putting it onto the stack are not met on resolution, the triggers will be removed).
I hate to be the guy to say this but isn't it word to where it doesn't care about the number of +1/+1 counters just so long as 1 is put on her she'll trigger giving you 1 card where as card such as Common Bond makes her trigger several times thus netting you more than 1 card
I hate to be the guy to say this but isn't it word to where it doesn't care about the number of +1/+1 counters just so long as 1 is put on her she'll trigger giving you 1 card where as card such as Common Bond makes her trigger several times thus netting you more than 1 card
Yes, but Evolve is worded such that multiple creatures that enter play at the same time will not all trigger Evolve, so in the case of Entreat, you can only draw 3 cards, because only 3 counters will be placed.
Yes, but Evolve is worded such that multiple creatures that enter play at the same time will not all trigger Evolve, so in the case of Entreat, you can only draw 3 cards, because only 3 counters will be placed.
well i wasn't arguing that so... okay:thumbsup:
and doesn't your statement disprove itself?
Damn, if only her colors had access to mana acceleration, card drawing, counter spells, bounce spells, pump spells and big beefy creatures...
not after you tap out everything on turn 4 to drop this card. if I'm tapping out for a card it better do something than require me to play another creature just to make it better. when I tap out for thundermaw I get effect plus creature that means something.
when I tap out to play this, I get a 1/1 that is vulnerable to every kind of removal spell from Electrickery to Dreadbore. Then you have to play an additional creature to get any kind of value out of this guy.
yes I realize this card plus grizzly bear = a card and a +1 counter, but man that is a lot of work to draw one card. You can do a lot better in those colors to gain card advantage than this guy.
Also does not have trample/flying so opponent can just chump the guy if it gets out of control (which I suspect would ever happen).
The card just reminds me of a "wouldn't it be neato if this happened". Thats what evolved feels like to me. I like that they get plus counters when another "bigger" creature comes into play, but they are all probably going to be expensive.
What I would like to see is stuff like Ornithopters/sheild spheres.
you play this guy, then you can cantrip with free creatures. but that seems really bad too.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
Wow. Evolve is really a great, flavorful mechanic.
I really hope the other remaining guilds have equally great mechanics. I still feel like Rakdos and Selesnya got a bit screwed in the mechanic department.
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:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Standard: Pretty much all of them. :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:
Evolve is a very dangerous mechanic, it makes most creatures a "must kill". This one is a must kill, but so will be the other evolved creatures that got big already.
Also as already stated, evolve isn't the only way to place a +1/+1 counter on it.
this could be deceptively powerful. anything that can draw multiple cards is solid, and if it builds into a good wall or attacker it can get extra value there too. also has insane synergy with Gavony Township. multiples of this on the board with a Township means you just rifle through your deck.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
That doesn't even consider all the natural ways she builds counters, all the creatures that will have other effects based on +1/+1 counters, like the OTHER spoiler we've gotten, and all the other effects that multiply the number of creatures that come out at a given time (Like Armada Wurm).
Furthermore, you don't have to "make" her work, her design makes her JUST work, and at the very least cuts out a removal spell in a deck that is going to be playing on it's synergies.
That doesn't even consider all the natural ways she builds counters, all the creatures that will have other effects based on +1/+1 counters, like the OTHER spoiler we've gotten, and all the other effects that multiply the number of creatures that come out at a given time (Like Armada Wurm).
Furthermore, you don't have to "make" her work, her design makes her JUST work, and at the very least cuts out a removal spell in a deck that is going to be playing on it's synergies.
I believe she'll see play.
How many of the above cards see any actual play in standard? I venture the answer to that is zero except for some very, very rare exceptions with Mikaeus or maybe Goliath. You don't play bad cards together with other bad cards and expect a miracle unless you can do it with consistency AND it instantly wins you the game.
Barring something completely out of left field there is no chance at this being a standard playable card. It it had been 1UG it "might" have been playable. Even at that mana cost I doubt it would be a staple in anything. It is incredibly fragile and slow. Will it see play at 4? No.
I'm getting killed by turn 3? Wow standard is broken...
To be fair, both Rakdos agro and Selesnya agro can kill easily on turn 4, and when on the draw that is turn 3
Oh and topic of the card, pretty sweet card, a bit expensive yes.
However try to imagine this in the ol geist/savagery deck that was so potent in INN block. Current std still has barely any instant removal either.
With geist in play this becomes a 2/2 cantrip for 4 cmc, which is really not that bad.
Then again, whenever you have a resolved attacking geist you should be winning already, but still, sweet none the less.
Damn, if only those decks wanted a 4cc creature that wasn't beefy and didn't draw as many cards as the Xspell defining standard...
It does. The reminder text uses and intervening if clause, which checks both on trigger and on resolution.
To make this card very powerful youd need your deck to have a ton of add counter effects.. Most of which are not very good in decks outside aggressive decks.
You want your curve topping out strong in aggressive decks, not playing a durdly creature that will just <rape> your tempo if he doesnt live until the next turn.
Really sweet in limited if the format is similar to RTR and/or there is a increasing savagery type card at uncommon.
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I. E. You cast Angel of Glory's Rise, and it's triggered ability goes to the stack. In your graveyard you have a Fiend Hunter, two Precint Captain, one Riders of Gavony, one Fathom Mage and one Borderland Ranger.
The six creatures enter the battlefield at the same time. The Evolve triggered ability on Fathom Mage triggers 5 times, twice for the Captains and one for Riders of Gavony and Borderland Ranger, respectively, plus one for the Fiend Hunter. When you start resolving the triggers, you can only put two +1/+1 counters on the GTC rare, and it even depends on how do you send those triggers to the stack.
You'll need to put those triggers on highest-to-lowest-power/toughness order: first the Riders' one, then Fiend Hunter, then the Ranger and both Precint. The last one (Precint's) will resolve, putting one counter on Fathom Mage and triggering its second ability. Once you draw, the next two triggers (Ranger's and the second Precint) will do nothing as now, Fathom Mage has the same power as both. Then, the next trigger (Hunter's) will resolve, putting a second +1/+1 counter and netting you a second card. The last trigger (Riders') won't resolve since now the creature is a 3/3.
The card is a Johnny one, with some potential in limited but practically useless (given its current context) on Constructed Standard.
EDIT: For clarity and correctness. Reference for this is the 603.4 rule in the Comprehensive Rules.
I could see Slitherhead getting some play with it. Especially since you don't even have to splash black.
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If X>3 you'll only put 3 counters on it and draw 3 cards, it does not matter how much do you pay for X. (Evolve is a conditional ability, if the conditions for putting it onto the stack are not met on resolution, the triggers will be removed).
Yes, but Evolve is worded such that multiple creatures that enter play at the same time will not all trigger Evolve, so in the case of Entreat, you can only draw 3 cards, because only 3 counters will be placed.
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well i wasn't arguing that so... okay:thumbsup:
and doesn't your statement disprove itself?
not after you tap out everything on turn 4 to drop this card. if I'm tapping out for a card it better do something than require me to play another creature just to make it better. when I tap out for thundermaw I get effect plus creature that means something.
when I tap out to play this, I get a 1/1 that is vulnerable to every kind of removal spell from Electrickery to Dreadbore. Then you have to play an additional creature to get any kind of value out of this guy.
yes I realize this card plus grizzly bear = a card and a +1 counter, but man that is a lot of work to draw one card. You can do a lot better in those colors to gain card advantage than this guy.
Also does not have trample/flying so opponent can just chump the guy if it gets out of control (which I suspect would ever happen).
The card just reminds me of a "wouldn't it be neato if this happened". Thats what evolved feels like to me. I like that they get plus counters when another "bigger" creature comes into play, but they are all probably going to be expensive.
What I would like to see is stuff like Ornithopters/sheild spheres.
you play this guy, then you can cantrip with free creatures. but that seems really bad too.
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I really hope the other remaining guilds have equally great mechanics. I still feel like Rakdos and Selesnya got a bit screwed in the mechanic department.
Great art.
Also as already stated, evolve isn't the only way to place a +1/+1 counter on it.
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That doesn't even consider all the natural ways she builds counters, all the creatures that will have other effects based on +1/+1 counters, like the OTHER spoiler we've gotten, and all the other effects that multiply the number of creatures that come out at a given time (Like Armada Wurm).
Furthermore, you don't have to "make" her work, her design makes her JUST work, and at the very least cuts out a removal spell in a deck that is going to be playing on it's synergies.
I believe she'll see play.
It certainly looks that way to me.
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How many of the above cards see any actual play in standard? I venture the answer to that is zero except for some very, very rare exceptions with Mikaeus or maybe Goliath. You don't play bad cards together with other bad cards and expect a miracle unless you can do it with consistency AND it instantly wins you the game.
Barring something completely out of left field there is no chance at this being a standard playable card. It it had been 1UG it "might" have been playable. Even at that mana cost I doubt it would be a staple in anything. It is incredibly fragile and slow. Will it see play at 4? No.
To be fair, both Rakdos agro and Selesnya agro can kill easily on turn 4, and when on the draw that is turn 3
Oh and topic of the card, pretty sweet card, a bit expensive yes.
However try to imagine this in the ol geist/savagery deck that was so potent in INN block. Current std still has barely any instant removal either.
With geist in play this becomes a 2/2 cantrip for 4 cmc, which is really not that bad.
Then again, whenever you have a resolved attacking geist you should be winning already, but still, sweet none the less.
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