Ghost Dad is ridiculous. The fact that most removal doesn't work on him the majority of the time makes him even stronger. Definitely a strong finisher for a Esper Control deck, and the keyrune will definitely end games in limited. (Let's hope we get some common/uncommon removal this set) Honestly, I'm surprised that they made a guild leader constructed playable, as most of them saw very little play. (I saw Niv in a few Grixis decks as a one of for a finisher and saw some Junk tokens run Trostani with varied results- but topdecking an Entreat with her in play is hilarious.)
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“My abusive words are filled with forty grams of copper, twenty five grams of zinc, fifteen grams of nickel, five grams of embarrassment and ninety seven kilograms of spite.”
So Obezedat basically dodges blacks best removal, every sweeper in the game, legend kill clone effects, Oblivion ring exile effects and is also resistant to soft removal because of it's huge body. In the same color as Resto angel no less, with a CIP ability. Are you kidding me wizard?
This is all true, however I would be shocked if there wasn't at least 1 fantastic instant speed removal spell in a set with 2 black-based guilds and the knowledge that instant removal currently is lacking.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
Ghost Council is incredible, I was kinda depressed at the unimpressive Orzhov creatures we had gotten and this brightened my outlook towards Orzhov considerably. If you can't see what makes Ghost Council great then don't worry about it, when you start losing to it every FNM, you might just catch on.
From an EDH player's perspective, I'm not very impressed with Obzedat; he costs more, can't be exiled at instant-speed, has no synergy with recursion decks, and the 5/5 body is not impressive at all. No doubt he'll be everyone's darling in Standard but coming from someone who doesn't play Standard he's...meh. Nuts in Standard, not so much in every other format.
Lazav, on the other hand, is all kinds of awesome with so much potential. It's like he decided Dimir Doppelganger was too good at his job, decided "I want some of that action too," and just devoured his soul. Hexproof is icing on the cake. Make him indestructible to resist Wrath of God effects and go to town. With the amount of removal and mill that Black and Blue have at their disposal, he is truly an evil that the simple mind cannot fathom. Plus, he gives Glimpse the Unthinkable a brand new purpose for House Dimir.
Dimir Keyrune has troll potential. "I poke you in the eye for 2 damage. Stop me now or I'll do it again, ha ha!" I like it.
You're not counting every white or black creature with Suspend.
The haste is only here as a workaround for the unusual timing of the Obzedat's flicker ability. It's less color bleed and more just using the keyword as a tool make the mechanic work as intended.
Yes, I didn't count suspend, unearth or any similar mechanics. And I think the card would have been strong by itself without the haste. You could choose to exile it and gain life, or hold it back to attack/block.
So with this, Treasury Thrull, and Deathpact Angel, anyone else see a strong "You ain't getting rid of my stuff" theme with Orzhov? (which thematically fits with haunt)
Ghost Council seems OK. It's a 5/5 for 5, which is reasonable. Unfortunately, it can't block and use it's flicker ability in the same turn. It doesn't fit aggro or control, but it could be a good midrange card.
Lazav seems pretty good. He's got hexproof, and he works well with Nephalia Drownyard and Thought Scour. I suppose that this creature's power is highly dependent on the opponent's deck, but in the right matchup it could be pretty powerful.
GHOST DAD DIES TO TRAGIC SLIP! I don't even know what deck plays it anymore. Of course, you can always sac a creature to Aristocrat and then Brimstone Volley his ass, but not every deck has that option. Guess the best way is to counter him, but Cavern of Souls exists, so I wonder what's the "best" way of answering him? Because if you don't find a way to do so, you're probably going to lose pretty fast.
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“My abusive words are filled with forty grams of copper, twenty five grams of zinc, fifteen grams of nickel, five grams of embarrassment and ninety seven kilograms of spite.”
GHOST DAD DIES TO TRAGIC SLIP! I don't even know what deck plays it anymore. Of course, you can always sac a creature to Aristocrat and then Brimstone Volley his ass, but not every deck has that option. Guess the best way is to counter him, but Cavern of Souls exists, so I wonder what's the "best" way of answering him? Because if you don't find a way to do so, you're probably going to lose pretty fast.
Selesnya Charm/Victim of Night is about it, or something coming in Gatecrash I would imagine, or perhaps Wizards is actually trying to get people to play Murder.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
Color me crazy and possibly behind rose-tinted glasses, but I think people are giving less credit to Lazav. Even looking on the black side of Dimir with creature destruction, you have the ability to make what you want. Even without that, there are still milleffects that are at instant speed which provide a semi-instant Clone effect. Although balancing him out is the random effectiveness because you don't know what's on top of your opponents library. Still, having your opponent flip over their Angel of Serenity, them not having it and you having it seems very powerful.
I'll be happy to see further build-around-me cards for this guy. I'm unhappy if mill because a major strategy for Dimir once again, but I'm also happy that isn't the only option for Lazav.
Selesnya Charm/Victim of Night is about it, or something coming in Gatecrash I would imagine, or perhaps Wizards is actually trying to get people to play Murder.
That makes sense, it just doesn't seem like a very good move on Wizards part to make a 5 drop that dodges almost all the removal we currently have, and it seems your best bet would be to race it- but then again, they did think that Jace, the Mind Sculptor was a good idea...
Anyone want to guess the pre-order price on him? I'm going to go with at least $25
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“My abusive words are filled with forty grams of copper, twenty five grams of zinc, fifteen grams of nickel, five grams of embarrassment and ninety seven kilograms of spite.”
That makes sense, it just doesn't seem like a very good move on Wizards part to make a 5 drop that dodges almost all the removal we currently have, and it seems your best bet would be to race it- but then again, they did think that Jace, the Mind Sculptor was a good idea...
Anyone want to guess the pre-order price on him? I'm going to go with at least $25
~$25 to start. Jump to $50+ once people start winning majors with him
What happens if Lazav mills Ghost Dad? Does he become insane?
Not really. He will just come back as Lazav if the player chooses to exile him.
Now that I think about Lazav... he may not be an effective clone as I thought. He can't use any ETB abilities. So if the person mills Iona, Shield of Emeria or Angel of Despair you won't get the ETB ability at all. Since Standard is all about ETB that will seriously limit his power. In EDH as well is somewhat of an abusive environment to have creatures with ETB abilities. I still kinda like him though... still being able to copy random fatties like Skittles, Akroma and other stuff would be cool. Can you imagine milling their Akroma? All her abilites PLUS hexproof? As if pro black/red wasn't enough lol.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Of course Wotc didn't even have the decency to force him to exile so he can't be used as a blocker. NOPE.
That's what I was thinking. Seriously Wizards, sometimes having a downside is more interesting! I'm okay with "may" in many situations, but Wiards needs to remember that it's often fun to play around limitations.:-/
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The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
Color me crazy and possibly behind rose-tinted glasses, but I think people are giving less credit to Lazav. Even looking on the black side of Dimir with creature destruction, you have the ability to make what you want. Even without that, there are still milleffects that are at instant speed which provide a semi-instant Clone effect. Although balancing him out is the random effectiveness because you don't know what's on top of your opponents library. Still, having your opponent flip over their Angel of Serenity, them not having it and you having it seems very powerful.
I'll be happy to see further build-around-me cards for this guy. I'm unhappy if mill because a major strategy for Dimir once again, but I'm also happy that isn't the only option for Lazav.
Well like all clone effects it's only as good as creatures in your opponent's deck. In some ways he's inferior to Clone or Evil Twin, because he has no CIP at all, he can't be used as removal to legends, he can't target your own creatures if they have nothing and he has no immediate effect on the turn he's cast. I see him being a house in EDH that's about all. Also he has a fairly restrictive mana cost.
Not that I'm suggesting this is going to be a valid strategy, but the fact that Obzedat is a spirit makes Drogskol Captain (the hexproof) a little interesting.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
Not that I'm suggesting this is going to be a valid strategy, but the fact that Obzedat is a spirit makes Drogskol Captain (the hexproof) a little interesting.
I'm not so sure giving Obzedat hexproof is all that beneficial since he already dodges pretty much everything.
Here's to hoping we get a decently costed instant that deals with him. We'll need it.
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This is all true, however I would be shocked if there wasn't at least 1 fantastic instant speed removal spell in a set with 2 black-based guilds and the knowledge that instant removal currently is lacking.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Lazav, on the other hand, is all kinds of awesome with so much potential. It's like he decided Dimir Doppelganger was too good at his job, decided "I want some of that action too," and just devoured his soul. Hexproof is icing on the cake. Make him indestructible to resist Wrath of God effects and go to town. With the amount of removal and mill that Black and Blue have at their disposal, he is truly an evil that the simple mind cannot fathom. Plus, he gives Glimpse the Unthinkable a brand new purpose for House Dimir.
Dimir Keyrune has troll potential. "I poke you in the eye for 2 damage. Stop me now or I'll do it again, ha ha!" I like it.
Honestly, I wish he DID suspend himself. If he did, he'd interact with Extort. It would've been PERFECT.
But alas, WotC R&D hates suspend, and it would've been awkward having the keyword come back for just one card...
Yes, I didn't count suspend, unearth or any similar mechanics. And I think the card would have been strong by itself without the haste. You could choose to exile it and gain life, or hold it back to attack/block.
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A lot of people disliked suspend, it was to good of a limited mechanic. (looking at you Errant Ephemeron/Corpulent Corpse)
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Lazav seems pretty good. He's got hexproof, and he works well with Nephalia Drownyard and Thought Scour. I suppose that this creature's power is highly dependent on the opponent's deck, but in the right matchup it could be pretty powerful.
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I would guess 4-5 (if it does mill, which I really hope it doesn't because it's just horrible)
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Decks
Future EDH
BRGAdun OakenshieldG[MANA]R[/MANA]B
When it escaped, the experimenters hesitated. It would cause untold havoc, yet they wished to see it in action.
Selesnya Charm/Victim of Night is about it, or something coming in Gatecrash I would imagine, or perhaps Wizards is actually trying to get people to play Murder.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Well I guess he just reverts back when he gets exiled.
I'll be happy to see further build-around-me cards for this guy. I'm unhappy if mill because a major strategy for Dimir once again, but I'm also happy that isn't the only option for Lazav.
Standard
Nah
Modern
UFishbowlU
That makes sense, it just doesn't seem like a very good move on Wizards part to make a 5 drop that dodges almost all the removal we currently have, and it seems your best bet would be to race it- but then again, they did think that Jace, the Mind Sculptor was a good idea...
Anyone want to guess the pre-order price on him? I'm going to go with at least $25
~$25 to start. Jump to $50+ once people start winning majors with him
Not really. He will just come back as Lazav if the player chooses to exile him.
Now that I think about Lazav... he may not be an effective clone as I thought. He can't use any ETB abilities. So if the person mills Iona, Shield of Emeria or Angel of Despair you won't get the ETB ability at all. Since Standard is all about ETB that will seriously limit his power. In EDH as well is somewhat of an abusive environment to have creatures with ETB abilities. I still kinda like him though... still being able to copy random fatties like Skittles, Akroma and other stuff would be cool. Can you imagine milling their Akroma? All her abilites PLUS hexproof? As if pro black/red wasn't enough lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
I hope so. Would make sense though. Probably not the best guild leader to copy. Nasty for 1 turn but no need since he has hexproof
Decks
Future EDH
BRGAdun OakenshieldG[MANA]R[/MANA]B
When it escaped, the experimenters hesitated. It would cause untold havoc, yet they wished to see it in action.
That's what I was thinking. Seriously Wizards, sometimes having a downside is more interesting! I'm okay with "may" in many situations, but Wiards needs to remember that it's often fun to play around limitations.:-/
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
Well like all clone effects it's only as good as creatures in your opponent's deck. In some ways he's inferior to Clone or Evil Twin, because he has no CIP at all, he can't be used as removal to legends, he can't target your own creatures if they have nothing and he has no immediate effect on the turn he's cast. I see him being a house in EDH that's about all. Also he has a fairly restrictive mana cost.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
I'm not so sure giving Obzedat hexproof is all that beneficial since he already dodges pretty much everything.
Here's to hoping we get a decently costed instant that deals with him. We'll need it.