Unrelated to mechanics and competitive viability and whatnot; a dimir specter doesn't make complete sense to me. Specters and their ilk (my argument is based on tolkein lore, and that the implied sources of fiction that he pulled from uses those same themes) are being specifically adept to evoking fear in absolutely anyone. Their very presence is unsettling, and they have many traits that add onto this, like their black metal screeches, etc. The rift lies in the fact that these beings are implemented historically for their charismatic qualities, and have been made iconic due to this. The nature of implementing fear is to draw attention to oneself to make the victim feel inferior and overcome.before anything happens; this screams of spotlight. The dimir have no business in spotlights. But then at the end of this wotc could slap anything onto anything because the game is not about the fluff but the numbers, and having a specter that works under a veil of night is seemingly dimir and off-setting to the icons of terror of yore. Just some observations.
I am not saying it is real, but do you realize how sick that regen ability would be with a snappy deck?
Not that good.
I am still going to think that its going to be a fairly simple creature without any wild abilities. Something like this is simple. We haven't seen good ol' Hypnotic Specter in many years, and I love to see him come back even better. This card could even cost four and people would still play it. Here is what my speculation is.
Nightveil Specter 1UB
Creature - Specter
Flying, hexproof
When Nightveil Specter deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card at random.
2/2
Unrelated to mechanics and competitive viability and whatnot; a dimir specter doesn't make complete sense to me. Specters and their ilk (my argument is based on tolkein lore, and that the implied sources of fiction that he pulled from uses those same themes) are being specifically adept to evoking fear in absolutely anyone. Their very presence is unsettling, and they have many traits that add onto this, like their black metal screeches, etc. The rift lies in the fact that these beings are implemented historically for their charismatic qualities, and have been made iconic due to this. The nature of implementing fear is to draw attention to oneself to make the victim feel inferior and overcome.before anything happens; this screams of spotlight. The dimir have no business in spotlights. But then at the end of this wotc could slap anything onto anything because the game is not about the fluff but the numbers, and having a specter that works under a veil of night is seemingly dimir and off-setting to the icons of terror of yore. Just some observations.
the problem with that is, the MtG specters don't necessarily follow that same lore. mechanically, every single specter in the game except for one is a flying creature with some sort of discard trigger. thematically, that discard could be in some way tied to their implementation of fear (however, "fear" is MtG is/was an entirely different thing), but more likely it represents some dark magic forcing itself upon the mind of the victim, causing certain information to be lost/brain damage/etc. it doesn't mesh well with other mythos/lore, but that's what they have become in this particular game.
seen in that light, Dimir are very much in the business of (dis)information and the lack thereof, so the employment of specters wouldn't be out of the question. whether or not this particular creature is directly allied with the Dimir (in terms of flavor as well as mechanically/multicolored) is still anybody's guess, as a generic specter would most likely be mono-black (and likewise able to be affiliated with any other black guild in would synergize with). it's really up to what specifically makes this particular specter special that would determine if it justifies a splash of blue mana vs. a splash of white mana.
personally, i feel that if it isn't mono-black, Dimir would make the most sense (judging from the past representations of the creature type in terms of mechanics and flavor).
Edit: found this article that gives some light as to what makes a specter in the MtG universe.
for the lazy, i'll reiterate the important part:
"The specter is an undead being so terrifying that its proximity sends reason off to pack its things and catch a crazy-cab straight to Gibbertown. The specter's face is usually hidden under a cloth cowl or hood, as the abject horror of staring into its true face is thought to be the source of its thought-disintegrating power."
taking this into mind, i could see a Dimir specter being something like an undead version of "The Haitian" from Heroes (granted with a different physical method of utilizing his power). he's not in the spotlight. he's a shadowy mind-assassin. he sneaks through undetected to erase valuable information from the minds of his victims. that totally screams Dimir, imo.
That card would be disgusting with Geralf's Messenger or Thragtusk or Restoration Angel or Snapcaster or planeswalkers or hell knows how many other things.
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Judging a set based on 5 unconfirmed cards, and the name of a promo.
lol wut
This is Mtg Salvation.
Everything is meh.
At least until some name says that a card is good, then everyone always knew it was good card all of the sudden.
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This is Mtg Salvation.
Everything is meh.
At least until some name says that a card is good, then everyone always knew it was good card all of the sudden.
Big hug for you!
Yeah, it is so rare that ANYONE is impressed. Then when someone important is, EVERYONE KNEW the card was good! Plus, people LOVE to complain!
it's really up to what specifically makes this particular specter special that would determine if it justifies a splash of blue mana vs. a splash of white mana.
Personally, I feel that if it isn't mono-black, Dimir would make the most sense (judging from the past representations of the creature type in terms of mechanics and flavor).
This. You points are very valid, thanks for the mothership reference as well. I can see the specter as an Orzhovan one, as they do have many behind the scenes evil schemes that take place while implementing their religious and fiscal subjugation tactics. This perspective makes the word Nightveil seem more at home in BW, but then most definitely it's not more comfortable than if it were UB.
I'm beginning to think that Nightveil Specter is going to be to RTR block as Dark Confidant was to RAV block; at least thematically, I'm not saying this is going to be black's next bomb. Confidant's art makes you think he is obviously a member of the Orzhov, but then at the same time makes alot of sense being either Dimir or just a non-affiliate. So then Nightveil Specter can probably be mono-black as well. I've talked about this at length with my friend, why is beyond me, as all of this is trivial as soon as we see the card...
Nightveil Specter just immediately makes you think UB when you read it though, am I the only one who thought that it was UB when I read the title of the thread?
There has never been a white-black one. And I would so want one. It can be so good, just imagine the art. So, my bet is Orzhov.
Nightveil Specter 1WB
Creature- Specter
Flying, lifelink 2/2
Whenever Nightveil Specter deals damage to an opponent, that player discards a card at random.
if this turned out to be correct, i would say someone in the flavor/naming department needs to be fired. what about "nightveil" translates into lifelink?
imo, as i'm sure has been stated already, it sounds like it should have hexproof, shroud, unblockable, or some kind of protection ability.
but then again, they don't knock 'em all out of the park.
Card's names don't have to relate to their abilities.
no, they don't have to. but WotC has been increasingly focused on flavor, resonance, etc in recent years. and with a finite amount of design space, it would make sense to try to sync up the naming of cards with what they represent mechanically or otherwise whenever possible. most of the time, these names don't just come out of thin air. rather, they are thought up in relation to a pre-existing concept. it would be a shame to blow an evocative name like Nightveil Specter on some generic creature, or worse, on something with no relative mechanic or flavor (i.e. in this case, a creature with lifelink) when it could instead be used on something that makes more sense (e.g. hexproof, shroud, etc).
It can work under the cover of night. So something like:
Nightveil specter 1BB
Flying, intimidate
Whenever nightveil specter deals combat damage to a player that player discards a card at random.
3/2
In this instance intimidate serves two purposes:
1# it scares people (as specter like to do in many lores)
2# only black creatures and artifact creatures see it comming. (as it works under the veil of night.)
This works great without letting hexproof or shroud near the concept.
I, too, thought of Intimidate for this specter. But man this card is super strong. It's stronger then Hypnotic Specter in both Power and is even more difficult to block. The only cards I think that see decent play in standard that could block it are Vampire Nighthawk, Falkenrath Aristocrat and that legendary Vampire with the awkward art. I think Hypnotic Specter would be playable. A suped up version might be too good.
I dunno if it was mentioned in the thread earlier or not. I found an image on it and it read
Nightviel spector 2UB
"When nightviel spector deals damage to a player, that player chooses a card from his or her hand and discards that card"
1: Return two non land permanents you control to their owner's hands. Regenerate nightviel spector
1/2
idk if its real or not but it seems legit ish. It sucks for the most part unless we have a reprint of cascade or other ETB mechanics in Dimir. So I am not excited about the card and it seems nigh unplayabe at 4cmc 1/2 with 0 evastion and crappy regen ability. Also the discard effect is opponents choice of his own discarded card. at least at Random it would have a chance of being game changing.
Hypnotic Specter has been underpowered for ages.... would love to see a small upgrade.
Mechanically there isn't much you can do with Hypnotic Specter to make it better for the same cost. The farthest they could push it would be to make it a 2/3. The ole specter is still a solid card, and random discard is a rarity these days.
Mechanically there isn't much you can do with Hypnotic Specter to make it better for the same cost. The farthest they could push it would be to make it a 2/3. The ole specter is still a solid card, and random discard is a rarity these days.
You could decrease the power or toughness to put something line Intimidate on it. Or just make it a 1/1 for 2 with all the same abilities.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
http://alveaenerlee.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5kjd97
Poor design and obvious fake.
I am not saying it is real, but do you realize how sick that regen ability would be with a snappy deck?
Not that good.
I am still going to think that its going to be a fairly simple creature without any wild abilities. Something like this is simple. We haven't seen good ol' Hypnotic Specter in many years, and I love to see him come back even better. This card could even cost four and people would still play it. Here is what my speculation is.
Nightveil Specter 1UB
Creature - Specter
Flying, hexproof
When Nightveil Specter deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card at random.
2/2
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Plus the 224/249 doesn't add up correctly
End of Story.
the problem with that is, the MtG specters don't necessarily follow that same lore. mechanically, every single specter in the game except for one is a flying creature with some sort of discard trigger. thematically, that discard could be in some way tied to their implementation of fear (however, "fear" is MtG is/was an entirely different thing), but more likely it represents some dark magic forcing itself upon the mind of the victim, causing certain information to be lost/brain damage/etc. it doesn't mesh well with other mythos/lore, but that's what they have become in this particular game.
seen in that light, Dimir are very much in the business of (dis)information and the lack thereof, so the employment of specters wouldn't be out of the question. whether or not this particular creature is directly allied with the Dimir (in terms of flavor as well as mechanically/multicolored) is still anybody's guess, as a generic specter would most likely be mono-black (and likewise able to be affiliated with any other black guild in would synergize with). it's really up to what specifically makes this particular specter special that would determine if it justifies a splash of blue mana vs. a splash of white mana.
personally, i feel that if it isn't mono-black, Dimir would make the most sense (judging from the past representations of the creature type in terms of mechanics and flavor).
Edit: found this article that gives some light as to what makes a specter in the MtG universe.
for the lazy, i'll reiterate the important part:
"The specter is an undead being so terrifying that its proximity sends reason off to pack its things and catch a crazy-cab straight to Gibbertown. The specter's face is usually hidden under a cloth cowl or hood, as the abject horror of staring into its true face is thought to be the source of its thought-disintegrating power."
taking this into mind, i could see a Dimir specter being something like an undead version of "The Haitian" from Heroes (granted with a different physical method of utilizing his power). he's not in the spotlight. he's a shadowy mind-assassin. he sneaks through undetected to erase valuable information from the minds of his victims. that totally screams Dimir, imo.
Selling domain "walkingtheplanes.com"- PM me with serious inquiries.
Thanks to Sioux for the Sig!
^v^ The Hooded Pumpkin's Trading Patch ^v^
Deck Tech:
UDagon's Fish N ChipsU
This is Mtg Salvation.
Everything is meh.
At least until some name says that a card is good, then everyone always knew it was good card all of the sudden.
Selling domain "walkingtheplanes.com"- PM me with serious inquiries.
Thanks to Sioux for the Sig!
^v^ The Hooded Pumpkin's Trading Patch ^v^
Deck Tech:
UDagon's Fish N ChipsU
Big hug for you!
Yeah, it is so rare that ANYONE is impressed. Then when someone important is, EVERYONE KNEW the card was good! Plus, people LOVE to complain!
Cyriss
This. You points are very valid, thanks for the mothership reference as well. I can see the specter as an Orzhovan one, as they do have many behind the scenes evil schemes that take place while implementing their religious and fiscal subjugation tactics. This perspective makes the word Nightveil seem more at home in BW, but then most definitely it's not more comfortable than if it were UB.
I'm beginning to think that Nightveil Specter is going to be to RTR block as Dark Confidant was to RAV block; at least thematically, I'm not saying this is going to be black's next bomb. Confidant's art makes you think he is obviously a member of the Orzhov, but then at the same time makes alot of sense being either Dimir or just a non-affiliate. So then Nightveil Specter can probably be mono-black as well. I've talked about this at length with my friend, why is beyond me, as all of this is trivial as soon as we see the card...
Nightveil Specter just immediately makes you think UB when you read it though, am I the only one who thought that it was UB when I read the title of the thread?
That doesn't even add up well with Dimir's guild ability.
Oh wait, the mothership hasn't revealed the ability? [Dragged away by masked specters...]
Edit: And the other cards from that site also confirms this. First of all Orzhov's guild ability is... hmmph! [Ultimate Priced :(]
This is what I'm hoping for as well. Albeit mostly because Dimir Cutpurse is one of my favorite cards.
also a favorite of mine... except for the fact that they steal your "coin purse"
Did we just become best friends!!?!?
if this turned out to be correct, i would say someone in the flavor/naming department needs to be fired. what about "nightveil" translates into lifelink?
imo, as i'm sure has been stated already, it sounds like it should have hexproof, shroud, unblockable, or some kind of protection ability.
but then again, they don't knock 'em all out of the park.
no, they don't have to. but WotC has been increasingly focused on flavor, resonance, etc in recent years. and with a finite amount of design space, it would make sense to try to sync up the naming of cards with what they represent mechanically or otherwise whenever possible. most of the time, these names don't just come out of thin air. rather, they are thought up in relation to a pre-existing concept. it would be a shame to blow an evocative name like Nightveil Specter on some generic creature, or worse, on something with no relative mechanic or flavor (i.e. in this case, a creature with lifelink) when it could instead be used on something that makes more sense (e.g. hexproof, shroud, etc).
I, too, thought of Intimidate for this specter. But man this card is super strong. It's stronger then Hypnotic Specter in both Power and is even more difficult to block. The only cards I think that see decent play in standard that could block it are Vampire Nighthawk, Falkenrath Aristocrat and that legendary Vampire with the awkward art. I think Hypnotic Specter would be playable. A suped up version might be too good.
idk if its real or not but it seems legit ish. It sucks for the most part unless we have a reprint of cascade or other ETB mechanics in Dimir. So I am not excited about the card and it seems nigh unplayabe at 4cmc 1/2 with 0 evastion and crappy regen ability. Also the discard effect is opponents choice of his own discarded card. at least at Random it would have a chance of being game changing.
Mechanically there isn't much you can do with Hypnotic Specter to make it better for the same cost. The farthest they could push it would be to make it a 2/3. The ole specter is still a solid card, and random discard is a rarity these days.
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You could decrease the power or toughness to put something line Intimidate on it. Or just make it a 1/1 for 2 with all the same abilities.