I understand why people don't like this card for the current Standard environment, and all the reasons they give for that. My point is that there's absolutely no reason to judge this card as bad or good purely by the Standard meta as it sit right now. I'm a predominantly casual player, and most of the decks I own are full of cards like this, stuff that's not bad on its own, but gets a bad rap because it's not useful in the tournament du jour.
And yes, WotC is responsible for some cards being stronger than others. MaRo has even written articles on the topic himself. You're right, WotC has spoiled players with ridiculous cards like GoST and Resto Angel. But the fact remains that people will complain regardless of what you give them.
you're forgetting the main problem with evaluating this thing: we haven't seen even a fraction of the set yet. QED?
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
you're forgetting the main problem with evaluating this thing: we haven't seen even a fraction of the set yet. QED?
oh, i'm not forgetting it... i totally agree with you. People are already condemning this card AND mechanic, I'm just kinda shrugging my whole shoulders at the whole circus of it and trying to find a casual deck of mine that might like it. There's no point in judging anything seriously yet, and even then, people evaluate harshly based off of malleable circumstances.
the main issue I have with this card isnt even the card its the mechanic,
you can make a creature based mechanic that doesnt break creature based deck while at the same time is powerful without pushing you to overextend (see battlecry, a very creature based mechanic that works in small numbers) this is just not how you do it,
honestly ill still be playing r/w come january (I already am) but unless they have some seriously broken card with battalion I wont be playing it, maybe in the sb but certainly not md. Which is disappointing, there are so many other cool mechanics we could have gotten, anything from frenzy to a battlecry variant.
I really hope Im pleasantly surprised I just am not getting my hopes up anymore.
In an agro deck attacking with two other creatures is not that difficult , especially with all the token like effects.
Comparing to odric, I'd say Attacking with 3 creatures is WAY more plausible than 4. Both for overextension purposes and removal tendencies.
Inherently it's not as powerful for agro decks as hellrider, but if there were effects that benefited angels or gave creatures haste it could easily be played.
In an agro vs agro mirror match, a lightning helix effect is realllly really powerful.
This is the only recent spoiler that may see standard play if the right synergies are present.
In limited a 3/3 flyer for 4 is quite agressivly costed as Is...
It is BONKERS in limited.
This is the most powerful card that's been spoiled officially.
Solid card.. Lightning Helix on a stick. Obviously very good for limited. The fact that it has a 3 toughness and needs additional plays to make it shine, makes this card not extremely playable in Standard. Would've rather it had been 3 mana and smaller body.. but that might have made her too good.
I really like this mechanic. It makes you over commit like battlecry did but it rewards you much better. I hope they slap this on at least one 1-drop and at least one 2-drop so this sees some standard play. So far my favorite new mechanic.
oh, i'm not forgetting it... i totally agree with you. People are already condemning this card AND mechanic, I'm just kinda shrugging my whole shoulders at the whole circus of it and trying to find a casual deck of mine that might like it. There's no point in judging anything seriously yet, and even then, people evaluate harshly based off of malleable circumstances.
Yes, there's.
Card evaluation is important when people start to buy singles before the next meta take place. Knowing what will be what will not be played help people to struck a good deal in times the sellers don't know the card's value.
I expect this card to be have a great chance of being a 2.0 dollars rare and a small chance of being 4.0 dollars (if it's a sideboard card in Boros vs. aggro match ups). If i want to get then to build some casual deck and i see SCG selling it for higher price, i won't buy, but someone expecting it to be played in constructed might think the card will worth 8 dollars or so (Hellrider's tag) might buy for that value and struck a bad deal.
At least for me, evaluating card is form to help the community to make better deals, not a ego clash.
This card sucks in everything but casual magic and limited. 3/3 flyer for 4 that requires you to have two other attacking creatures; shouldn't you be winning at that point? What if you just have this card by itself? Wouldn't you rather have a vanilla 4/4 flyer at that point? I would rather kill myself than play this in a constructed format.
I won't deny the hesitation on part of the mechanic. It's a lucky break for the design team when even one card from each mechanic in standard finds a constructed home.
I really don't know why everyone is complaining about token based decks because of this card, sure it's probably the easiest way to get battalion to work but by far one of the worst and weakest. Pop her into a naya humans or even just naya aggro and she shines.
you're forgetting the main problem with evaluating this thing: we haven't seen even a fraction of the set yet. QED?
It's a terrible card, period. Unless they print a card that says you win the game when you cast Firemane Angle, it will always be a terrible card, outside of being a vanilla 3/3 flyer for 4 in draft.
Actually, I would like it more as a vanilla 3/3 flyer for 4, just so I wouldn't be forced to be reminded how awful a keyword Battalion is.
Solid card.. Lightning Helix on a stick
More like Lightning Helix locked behind an ability that will rarely if ever get triggered. I'd play a straight up reprint of Lightning Helix at 4 mana over this card.
People have the right to say this card sucks by itself, but it would be foolish to say Batallion isnt Constructed playable. What if we get a 2/2 haste with batallion for 1RW? I bet you guys would be "OMG BEST ABILITY EVAH!"
People have the right to say this card sucks by itself, but it would be foolish to say Batallion isnt Constructed playable. What if we get a 2/2 haste with batallion for 1RW? I bet you guys would be "OMG BEST ABILITY EVAH!"
Everything has potential to be constructed playable until all the cards are spoiled, Detain was going to be the new wave of tempo awesomeness, but then the cards didn't became that good.
Until then, we have to judge with what we have, and this card doesn't fix the problems that aggro have, nor improves other options like Hellrider. Of course, they can make your card and it's going to be playable.
Originally Posted by Biefall View Post
People have the right to say this card sucks by itself, but it would be foolish to say Batallion isnt Constructed playable. What if we get a 2/2 haste with batallion for 1RW? I bet you guys would be "OMG BEST ABILITY EVAH!"
Nope. I still wouldn't play it. It's too easy to disrupt.
The only way Battalion works is if your opponent has a religious objection to running any removal in thier deck, in which case, you are going to win anyway.
People have the right to say this card sucks by itself, but it would be foolish to say Batallion isnt Constructed playable. What if we get a 2/2 haste with batallion for 1RW? I bet you guys would be "OMG BEST ABILITY EVAH!"
What? That's moronic. It's an ability that requires two other attacking creatures to work. No one's going to say that the ability is great if a card sees play that possesses said ability, they're going to say the card is aggressively costed or a solid creature with an occasional upside. You are correct in that it is a positive ability, but a keyworded ability has to be pretty insane for people to get hype about the ability itself.
What? That's moronic. It's an ability that requires two other attacking creatures to work.
I have some advice that might help. Instead of playing a bunch of high cost creatures above 4 cost, play a large number of 1, 2, and 3 cost creatures. That way by the time you get to the 4 cost "top out", you have a bunch of smaller creatures that you already played on earlier turns.
Polk, most aggressive decks play multiple creatures, to say this is a bad card is very simple-minded. A 3/3 flyer for 4 is already very good (Dungeon Geists Galepowder Mage, Wydwyn, the Biting Gale), not mention the huge upside helixing everytime you attack with your guys makes this into an easy 5-10$ rare out of the guild of Boros.
I have some advice that might help. Instead of playing a bunch of high cost creatures above 4 cost, play a large number of 1, 2, and 3 cost creatures. That way by the time you get to the 4 cost "top out", you have a bunch of smaller creatures that you already played on earlier turns.
This is what's known as the "mana curve".
Thanks, dude! I know every game I'll have a 1, 2, and then 3 drop and my opponents will never interact with them! This makes the new ability super-number-one-for-winners!
Why do people act like having 3 attacking creatures on the board at once is such a hard thing to do? Especially in aggressive colors that aren't going to be playing many (if any) cards above 4 cmc to begin with.
I know we have Supreme Verdict and Terminus to deal with, but, believe it or not, you're not going to be hit with those every single time you play a creature. At least, I haven't been yet. Maybe some of you have and that's just unfortunate.
I admit, I wish this thing had haste, but that would probably make it too powerful. This just means that I'll be pairing it with Lightning Mauler whenever possible. And maybe there will be some other ways to give it haste that just hasn't been revealed yet. Point is, I like this card, and I'm not ready to write it off without having a chance to play around with it first.
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Yeah, creatures with haste exist, and last time I checked Fervor was in the format. It will be a breeze being able to attack with 3 guys on turn 4. I just hope the rest of the battalion cards are as good as this one.
Hmm. Battalion seems cool as long as boros gets good weenies again, which is basically inevitable. Never played with Goblin Guide when he was still standard but boros makes me want him back loll. I really like this angel though, could be pretty good as I do love me some Lightning Helix.
Three attacking creatures is hard? Psshh, how quickly you forget the lesson Windbrisk Heights taught you. And THAT card spanked ass in a world that had both more and better sweepers and worse token generators.
Three attacking creatures is hard? Psshh, how quickly you forget the lesson Windbrisk Heights taught you. And THAT card spanked ass in a world that had both more and better sweepers and worse token generators.
Some guys just want to troll and go either:
A)Unplayable jank.
B) Next JTMS.
That happens everytime a new set is being spoiled. And thats only 5 legit cards, and only 1 example of Boros Batallion.
Three attacking creatures is hard? Psshh, how quickly you forget the lesson Windbrisk Heights taught you. And THAT card spanked ass in a world that had both more and better sweepers and worse token generators.
You're comparing a land to a creature across formats. Yes, both require three creatures to attack to gain their benefits, but how are they similar besides that? Should we compare all cards that share prerequisites for activation? Is Borborygmos good because Seismic Assault saw play?
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you're forgetting the main problem with evaluating this thing: we haven't seen even a fraction of the set yet. QED?
oh, i'm not forgetting it... i totally agree with you. People are already condemning this card AND mechanic, I'm just kinda shrugging my whole shoulders at the whole circus of it and trying to find a casual deck of mine that might like it. There's no point in judging anything seriously yet, and even then, people evaluate harshly based off of malleable circumstances.
you can make a creature based mechanic that doesnt break creature based deck while at the same time is powerful without pushing you to overextend (see battlecry, a very creature based mechanic that works in small numbers) this is just not how you do it,
honestly ill still be playing r/w come january (I already am) but unless they have some seriously broken card with battalion I wont be playing it, maybe in the sb but certainly not md. Which is disappointing, there are so many other cool mechanics we could have gotten, anything from frenzy to a battlecry variant.
I really hope Im pleasantly surprised I just am not getting my hopes up anymore.
In an agro deck attacking with two other creatures is not that difficult , especially with all the token like effects.
Comparing to odric, I'd say Attacking with 3 creatures is WAY more plausible than 4. Both for overextension purposes and removal tendencies.
Inherently it's not as powerful for agro decks as hellrider, but if there were effects that benefited angels or gave creatures haste it could easily be played.
In an agro vs agro mirror match, a lightning helix effect is realllly really powerful.
This is the only recent spoiler that may see standard play if the right synergies are present.
In limited a 3/3 flyer for 4 is quite agressivly costed as Is...
It is BONKERS in limited.
This is the most powerful card that's been spoiled officially.
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More spirit token based decks are the last thing I want to see
Yes, there's.
Card evaluation is important when people start to buy singles before the next meta take place. Knowing what will be what will not be played help people to struck a good deal in times the sellers don't know the card's value.
I expect this card to be have a great chance of being a 2.0 dollars rare and a small chance of being 4.0 dollars (if it's a sideboard card in Boros vs. aggro match ups). If i want to get then to build some casual deck and i see SCG selling it for higher price, i won't buy, but someone expecting it to be played in constructed might think the card will worth 8 dollars or so (Hellrider's tag) might buy for that value and struck a bad deal.
At least for me, evaluating card is form to help the community to make better deals, not a ego clash.
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It's a terrible card, period. Unless they print a card that says you win the game when you cast Firemane Angle, it will always be a terrible card, outside of being a vanilla 3/3 flyer for 4 in draft.
Actually, I would like it more as a vanilla 3/3 flyer for 4, just so I wouldn't be forced to be reminded how awful a keyword Battalion is.
More like Lightning Helix locked behind an ability that will rarely if ever get triggered. I'd play a straight up reprint of Lightning Helix at 4 mana over this card.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
Everything has potential to be constructed playable until all the cards are spoiled, Detain was going to be the new wave of tempo awesomeness, but then the cards didn't became that good.
Until then, we have to judge with what we have, and this card doesn't fix the problems that aggro have, nor improves other options like Hellrider. Of course, they can make your card and it's going to be playable.
Nope. I still wouldn't play it. It's too easy to disrupt.
The only way Battalion works is if your opponent has a religious objection to running any removal in thier deck, in which case, you are going to win anyway.
What? That's moronic. It's an ability that requires two other attacking creatures to work. No one's going to say that the ability is great if a card sees play that possesses said ability, they're going to say the card is aggressively costed or a solid creature with an occasional upside. You are correct in that it is a positive ability, but a keyworded ability has to be pretty insane for people to get hype about the ability itself.
I have some advice that might help. Instead of playing a bunch of high cost creatures above 4 cost, play a large number of 1, 2, and 3 cost creatures. That way by the time you get to the 4 cost "top out", you have a bunch of smaller creatures that you already played on earlier turns.
This is what's known as the "mana curve".
Thanks, dude! I know every game I'll have a 1, 2, and then 3 drop and my opponents will never interact with them! This makes the new ability super-number-one-for-winners!
I know we have Supreme Verdict and Terminus to deal with, but, believe it or not, you're not going to be hit with those every single time you play a creature. At least, I haven't been yet. Maybe some of you have and that's just unfortunate.
I admit, I wish this thing had haste, but that would probably make it too powerful. This just means that I'll be pairing it with Lightning Mauler whenever possible. And maybe there will be some other ways to give it haste that just hasn't been revealed yet. Point is, I like this card, and I'm not ready to write it off without having a chance to play around with it first.
Some guys just want to troll and go either:
A)Unplayable jank.
B) Next JTMS.
That happens everytime a new set is being spoiled. And thats only 5 legit cards, and only 1 example of Boros Batallion.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
You're comparing a land to a creature across formats. Yes, both require three creatures to attack to gain their benefits, but how are they similar besides that? Should we compare all cards that share prerequisites for activation? Is Borborygmos good because Seismic Assault saw play?