So you are saying it is good because you can use other good cards to compensate for it being removed(I am not even sure if Aurelia is good or not)?
In a way, yes. I'm saying it's enough of a threat to the board state to warrant removal, which a deck has a limited amount of, and as Evenoire pointed out, most of which can't hit her, or Aurelia for that matter. Attacking into a Restoration Angel is probably your biggest worry and that can be dealt with before blocks with Thunderbolt or Ultimate Price. I do concede its ability can be held off by removing its support creatures instead, but leaving a 3/3 flying body on the board in an aggro/burn/lifegain deck is less than optimal when a simple EOT Midnight Haunting can bring it back online.
I guess that's true. Though if WOTC starts trying to slow down standard by reducing the number of ETB effects, then I certainly won't be complaining.
I think they're working on that with Ravnica. Besides Angelof Serenity, there's no bomby ETB/LTB effects.
Also, there's an extreme lack of hexproof and protection from X color. (I personally think Hexproof should be an activated mana ability, so it doesn't end up on cards like Geist.)
In a way, yes. I'm saying it's enough of a threat to the board state to warrant removal, which a deck has a limited amount of, and as Evenoire pointed out, most of which can't hit her, or Aurelia for that matter. Attacking into a Restoration Angel is probably your biggest worry and that can be dealt with before blocks with Thunderbolt or Ultimate Price. I do concede its ability can be held off by removing its support creatures instead, but leaving a 3/3 flying body on the board in an aggro/burn/lifegain deck is less than optimal when a simple EOT Midnight Haunting can bring it back online.
Getting blown out by attacking into a Resto is a real problem, on top of the other problems the card has (jumping through hoops to make it more than a 3/3 flier). You can't even Helix the Resto. Thunderbolt is a bad card, why would you play a bad card like that to make up for another bad card?
Like the Lightning Bolt test from previous years, that is a very relevant test right now, for a creature that relies solely on attacking.
Windbrisk Heights this ain't. It's more like Odric. I've been underwhelmed enough by Odric in an EDH soldier tokens deck that spits out swarms of dudes, playing against other casual decks, and that's not exactly a format where speed is of the essence.
Also, there's an extreme lack of hexproof and protection from X color. (I personally think Hexproof should be an activated mana ability, so it doesn't end up on cards like Geist.)
The only reason I like hexproof is it makes aura-voltron playable.
good in combat... the above poster is right... we won't actually know how good this is until much later... like hellrider... a 1-2 dollar card until people finally realized how good it was.
Attack triggers feel super Boros and if we can get some more sick card advantage effects out of other battalion cards this keyword could become constructed fodder in no time.
The shame is that, during limited matches, you almost never will have enough creatures to pull off a trigger, as powerful battalion cards will most likely draw removal. Only time will tell it's limited power level.
Loving the synergy with Aurelia. Two battalion triggers seems awesome. My loyalties still lie with Simic after Evolve was spoiled but I may shift later into spoiler season.
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I think they're working on that with Ravnica. Besides Angelof Serenity, there's no bomby ETB/LTB effects.
Also, there's an extreme lack of hexproof and protection from X.)
I noticed this as well. Look at the most valuable cards in Standard right now. Very few of the creatures are from RTR (and most if not all of them are ETB bombs from INN block and M13). If this trend continues in GTC/DMA/M14, Standard might look very different after next rotation, and Firemane Avenger might be quite playable then, as it should be imho.
Are we really already beginning the "Wait until rotation" comments? I mean, we don't have something like the Titans to get rid of. Is Resto Angel really that bad? Geist of Saint Traft maybe, but... come on.
This card may not even need to wait until rotation. She may just be good. We'll have to see the other cards that have yet to be spoiled AND how the meta develops around them.
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I'm more than willing to give this card a chance once it's released, but I hate that it won't even trade with a flashed in Restoration Angel on it's own. That just seems like a major oversight, given how common Resto is in the current standard.
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It looks weak, forces oneself to overcommit while Battalion is a mechanic that is just going to walk into a supreme verdict or terminus.
Is there a scenario currently in Standard that one can survive a terminus or supreme verdict unscathed outside countering them?
I'm no competitive player by any stretch but using a wrath effect as example of why the card is bad seems silly. Then again, I'm a casual player so maybe I'm missing something in your example.
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I'll bluff with just Angel and 1 other creature. Meanwhile they keep holding the Verdict, waiting for the 3rd creature that never drops.
Your going to bluff with a purposly held back card and some other random card?Don't complain when you lose because they detain it, use removal on it, or out muscle you.
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definitely going to use this in 2HG games and EDH with my token deck. looks awesome to me and love the mechanic, but i do see its downside. hopefully there will be other lower costed creatures to make use of it as well, but all in all.....awesome.
Is there a scenario currently in Standard that one can survive a terminus or supreme verdict unscathed outside countering them?
No. But when you can hold 1~2 creatures in hand and leave 2 in the battlefield attacking, even if the control player can 1-for-2 via Verdict/Terminus, the aggro player still has the upper hand in winning the game, specially if the creatures in hand have haste.
The card is super weak vs. control. It's not only sweepers, any removal in any one of your 3 creatures already ruin the battalion trigger. It's not like attacking with 3 creatures is a rare event in magic, but does not happen 100% of the matchs either. And a card that wiffy even 10% of the time is already unplayable by competitive standards.
No. But when you can hold 1~2 creatures in hand and leave 2 in the battlefield attacking, even if the control player can 1-for-2 via Verdict/Terminus, the aggro player still has the upper hand in winning the game, specially if the creatures in hand have haste.
The card is super weak vs. control. It's not only sweepers, any removal in any one of your 3 creatures already ruin the battalion trigger. It's not like attacking with 3 creatures is a rare event in magic, but does not happen 100% of the matchs either. And a card that wiffy even 10% of the time is already unplayable by competitive standards.
Untill we see another Boros creature who produces tokens with haste. Seriously, it's called a "set" for a reason.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
Beautiful art, a beast in limited, great casual card and it might even see some very fringe competitive play. Similar to Odric and he made it into a few standard beatdown decks as a 1 or 2-of
Is there a scenario currently in Standard that one can survive a terminus or supreme verdict unscathed outside countering them?
I'm no competitive player by any stretch but using a wrath effect as example of why the card is bad seems silly. Then again, I'm a casual player so maybe I'm missing something in your example.
well for the verdict, you could use golgari charm to regenerate all of your creatures. I dont think there is anything for terminus though
it would be tough to get green black in a boros deck though
well for the verdict, you could use golgari charm to regenerate all of your creatures. I dont think there is anything for terminus though
it would be tough to get green black in a boros deck though
Or you could use Rootborn Defenses which is actually in one of your colors and can boost your numbers if any of your creatures are tokens. I could see Precinct Captain fitting in a deck like that if you don't want to splash green for Call of the Conclave. Also thinking Attended Knight assuming we don't get something better in this set. Not getting 2 for 1'ed as much if your cards are 2 for 1's too
I posted this in the New Card Discussion forum thread on Fireman Angel where the argument is a little less heated but I thought I'd post it here too:
I agree with the people who are saying that Battalion sucks with the traditional Boros method of playing. RW decks like to balance quick and efficient burn and removal with quick and efficient creatures, and perhaps some good equipment to pump your creatures in the late game. They rarely have three creatures on the board until they have already essentially won the game.
Arguing that Battalion is weak to board sweeps is redundant, all creature based aggro strategies are weak against board sweeps. Being able to rebuild your board position quickly is one of the things aggro players need to learn to do incredibly quickly, or they lose allot. However, at the same time I can understand why people would have some trepidation - it's easier to only need to play one creature after a sweeper than having to get three on the board. However, not being able to activate a creatures Battalion ability every single time it attacks doesn't make cards with Battalion bad - it makes them balanced. Firemane Avengers ability is incredibly power, it needs to be a bit more difficult to activate to keep the game balanced, but that doesn't mean the ability is completely unplayable.
As many people have also rightly pointed out, Battalion works well in Naya Mid-Range and Zoo style decks which play a large amount of creatures. I could also see a deck which uses Geist of Saint Traft and some awesome Azorius cards, like Azorius Charm and Lyev Skyknight (detain plays naturally well with Battalion, it allows you to protect your attackers and you don't need to not throw away a creature blocking) to good use with some Battalion creatures (personally this is the deck I want to try out). One could also make a BWR (or just a plain BR deck if there are good creatures with battalion in mono-red) deck which uses hard to kill zombies and vampires as a means of ensuring you always have three creatures to attack with. There are tons of ways in the current meta and older formats to experiment with getting Battalion to work and more are likely to be printed in Gatecrash and Dragons Maze. Don't right off a mechanic until you've actually played with it.
In a way, yes. I'm saying it's enough of a threat to the board state to warrant removal, which a deck has a limited amount of, and as Evenoire pointed out, most of which can't hit her, or Aurelia for that matter. Attacking into a Restoration Angel is probably your biggest worry and that can be dealt with before blocks with Thunderbolt or Ultimate Price. I do concede its ability can be held off by removing its support creatures instead, but leaving a 3/3 flying body on the board in an aggro/burn/lifegain deck is less than optimal when a simple EOT Midnight Haunting can bring it back online.
I think they're working on that with Ravnica. Besides Angelof Serenity, there's no bomby ETB/LTB effects.
Also, there's an extreme lack of hexproof and protection from X color. (I personally think Hexproof should be an activated mana ability, so it doesn't end up on cards like Geist.)
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Getting blown out by attacking into a Resto is a real problem, on top of the other problems the card has (jumping through hoops to make it more than a 3/3 flier). You can't even Helix the Resto. Thunderbolt is a bad card, why would you play a bad card like that to make up for another bad card?
Like the Lightning Bolt test from previous years, that is a very relevant test right now, for a creature that relies solely on attacking.
Windbrisk Heights this ain't. It's more like Odric. I've been underwhelmed enough by Odric in an EDH soldier tokens deck that spits out swarms of dudes, playing against other casual decks, and that's not exactly a format where speed is of the essence.
The only reason I like hexproof is it makes aura-voltron playable.
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the card pool didn't even change that much.. .
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The shame is that, during limited matches, you almost never will have enough creatures to pull off a trigger, as powerful battalion cards will most likely draw removal. Only time will tell it's limited power level.
Loving the synergy with Aurelia. Two battalion triggers seems awesome. My loyalties still lie with Simic after Evolve was spoiled but I may shift later into spoiler season.
When posting he never did prattle
He was quite a nice bloke
Always quick with a joke
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I noticed this as well. Look at the most valuable cards in Standard right now. Very few of the creatures are from RTR (and most if not all of them are ETB bombs from INN block and M13). If this trend continues in GTC/DMA/M14, Standard might look very different after next rotation, and Firemane Avenger might be quite playable then, as it should be imho.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
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This card may not even need to wait until rotation. She may just be good. We'll have to see the other cards that have yet to be spoiled AND how the meta develops around them.
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Is there a scenario currently in Standard that one can survive a terminus or supreme verdict unscathed outside countering them?
I'm no competitive player by any stretch but using a wrath effect as example of why the card is bad seems silly. Then again, I'm a casual player so maybe I'm missing something in your example.
........................
Unless it's a functional reprint of Craterhoof Behemoth with hexproof and costs 4 mana, it sucks.
Your going to bluff with a purposly held back card and some other random card?Don't complain when you lose because they detain it, use removal on it, or out muscle you.
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Why should I wait for the 3rd creature? Why can't I cast Supreme Verdict then and there?
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No. But when you can hold 1~2 creatures in hand and leave 2 in the battlefield attacking, even if the control player can 1-for-2 via Verdict/Terminus, the aggro player still has the upper hand in winning the game, specially if the creatures in hand have haste.
The card is super weak vs. control. It's not only sweepers, any removal in any one of your 3 creatures already ruin the battalion trigger. It's not like attacking with 3 creatures is a rare event in magic, but does not happen 100% of the matchs either. And a card that wiffy even 10% of the time is already unplayable by competitive standards.
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Untill we see another Boros creature who produces tokens with haste. Seriously, it's called a "set" for a reason.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
well for the verdict, you could use golgari charm to regenerate all of your creatures. I dont think there is anything for terminus though
it would be tough to get green black in a boros deck though
Or you could use Rootborn Defenses which is actually in one of your colors and can boost your numbers if any of your creatures are tokens. I could see Precinct Captain fitting in a deck like that if you don't want to splash green for Call of the Conclave. Also thinking Attended Knight assuming we don't get something better in this set. Not getting 2 for 1'ed as much if your cards are 2 for 1's too
I agree with the people who are saying that Battalion sucks with the traditional Boros method of playing. RW decks like to balance quick and efficient burn and removal with quick and efficient creatures, and perhaps some good equipment to pump your creatures in the late game. They rarely have three creatures on the board until they have already essentially won the game.
Arguing that Battalion is weak to board sweeps is redundant, all creature based aggro strategies are weak against board sweeps. Being able to rebuild your board position quickly is one of the things aggro players need to learn to do incredibly quickly, or they lose allot. However, at the same time I can understand why people would have some trepidation - it's easier to only need to play one creature after a sweeper than having to get three on the board. However, not being able to activate a creatures Battalion ability every single time it attacks doesn't make cards with Battalion bad - it makes them balanced. Firemane Avengers ability is incredibly power, it needs to be a bit more difficult to activate to keep the game balanced, but that doesn't mean the ability is completely unplayable.
As many people have also rightly pointed out, Battalion works well in Naya Mid-Range and Zoo style decks which play a large amount of creatures. I could also see a deck which uses Geist of Saint Traft and some awesome Azorius cards, like Azorius Charm and Lyev Skyknight (detain plays naturally well with Battalion, it allows you to protect your attackers and you don't need to not throw away a creature blocking) to good use with some Battalion creatures (personally this is the deck I want to try out). One could also make a BWR (or just a plain BR deck if there are good creatures with battalion in mono-red) deck which uses hard to kill zombies and vampires as a means of ensuring you always have three creatures to attack with. There are tons of ways in the current meta and older formats to experiment with getting Battalion to work and more are likely to be printed in Gatecrash and Dragons Maze. Don't right off a mechanic until you've actually played with it.
How does it force you to overcommit? 99% of aggro decks run a strict no block policy