Yes, but you are completely ignoring one fact that it is the interactions of the cards for the guild could make the ability interesting for people. Is it out of the realm of possibly for you to deny that there could be a card within the set that makes it more interesting.
Then it'd be a Standard thing at most, never to be good in bigger formats.
The ability is far from weak, and fits the guild perfectly. It might not fit your style of play (as I see you're a fellow BW tokens player) but just wait for the rest of the cards. The guild mechanic did not define Orzhov before (there was 1 moderately playable haunt creature in Orzhov Pontiff).
I'm not a tokens player, just tested the deck because I like to play BW decks, and that was the only possibility in Modern.
How is the ability far from weak? You like pinging your opponent for 1 and gaining 1 life? You feel like it helps to win the game in any way?
Something Im liking about extort is that it makes a nice mana sink with removal spells, Ultimate Price? :1mana::symb::symbw: : Destroy Target Monocolored Creature. Your opponent looses one life and you gain one life.
Could get even more bonkers with Blood Artist and similar cards.
If they print any relatively cheap Extort permanents (or even an Extort land!), I could see building WBG a control deck with a low mana curve which gets a few Extort triggers onto the field and then abuses them with things like Duress, Lingering Souls, Abrupt Decay, Selesnya Charm, and whatever cheap utility and control stuff Orzhov gets. Stall out your opponent in the early game, use Extort triggers on the cheap stuff mid-game, and if they aren't dead yet, drop an Armada Wurm, a Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis, or some other finisher late game (or even cheat it out a little earlier with Unburial Rites). Might not be incredibly competitive, but it could probably compete in FNM. And that's just stuff I'M thinking of. Someone who actually knows how to build a proper deck could do much better, especially when the rest of the set is spoiled. This mechanic has quite a bit of potential when you think about it.
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Man this seems really cool. I play almost exclusively limited, so don't know much about the constructed applications of this but if there are some lower mana cost extort cards, then I think I may be using Orzhov at the pre. Stacking multiple extort guys seems so goood, especially if Orzhov gets more disentomb style spells like this thrull.
I'm not a tokens player, just tested the deck because I like to play BW decks, and that was the only possibility in Modern.
How is the ability far from weak? You like pinging your opponent for 1 and gaining 1 life? You feel like it helps to win the game in any way?
Well it all depends on the permanents that will have Extort, but as a long time Esper/(sometimes Grixis) Teachings player, having a way to use extra mana at the end of turn, especially as something as crucial as life bleed to increase the gap even further, is something any control player will tell you is amazing. It's the sole reason why Pristine talisman was seen in Solar Flare builds last standard and will be the reason Extort will see play in Orzhov/Esper control lists this season. All assuming once again if Extort is seen either on durable/cheap creatures or on noncreature permanents.
Extort also stacks. I will pay 2 extra on an end of turn Ultimate Price or Think Twice to make it an uncounterable Syphon Life as well, with no loss of card advantage.
The Extort mechanic is just gravy on the control package. An intensely flavorful and rewarding gravy. I just hope that angel is a bomb worth having (heres hoping for Identity Crisis stapled onto a 5/5 body).
This is rather baseless, but I'm wondering what sort of noncreature cards this mechanic would show up on. I'm willing to bet there's a Pacifism variant with Extort, and it's also not past the realm of possibility that there would be a rare land with extort that only produces :1mana:.
Why people keep talking about a low CC permanents with extort?
Imagine a 1CC creature with exort. Would you pay 1 more for each of your spells for such effect?? Would you auto-thalia yourself to do 1 damage and gain 1 life? Is this a real question? This ability sucks completely, unless it changes from card to card and instead of draining life it does something else, or costs 0. If it cost 0, it'd be a free lightning helix every 3 spells that you can't target creatures with, which is not incredible but not bad if the permanent it's on is good enough by itself without the extort ability.
Why people keep talking about a low CC permanents with extort?
Imagine a 1CC creature with exort. Would you pay 1 more for each of your spells for such effect?? Would you auto-thalia yourself to do 1 damage and gain 1 life? Is this a real question? This ability sucks completely, unless it changes from card to card and instead of draining life it does something else, or costs 0.
A 1 CMC Extort creature that was 1/1 would suck you're right, why would you want that?
It's a good thing it wasn't what I had in mind when I thought of good extort permanents.
You also realize Extort is an option right? It's not something you must pay but rather a tool you can use to your advantage. You aren't auto-thaliaing yourself, you are paying for an ability you can afford and want at a certain time.
Also this is a fine spell with Lingering Souls as well come to think of it. I can also envision a janky control deck with Drogskol Reaver as a finisher, drawing cards everytime you extort. To Christmasland I know, but 'tis the season.
Why people keep talking about a low CC permanents with extort?
Imagine a 1CC creature with exort. Would you pay 1 more for each of your spells for such effect?? Would you auto-thalia yourself to do 1 damage and gain 1 life? Is this a real question? This ability sucks completely, unless it changes from card to card and instead of draining life it does something else, or costs 0. If it cost 0, it'd be a free lightning helix every 3 spells that you can't target creatures with, which is not incredible but not bad if the permanent it's on is good enough by itself without the extort ability.
Not early game, when you're struggling for mana, no. But if you've stabilized at, say, 8 HP, and on turn 6 your opponent drops a thalia on an empty field, you wouldn't care one bit.
If Extort is on a well-costed resilient permanent that helps you stabilize (say, a Journey to Nowhere variant), it will see a ton of play.
I bought three foil Drogskol Reavers when this card was spoiled. I don't think this specific card will fit well into an Esper control deck, but without knowledge of the rest of the set I could see the Extort mechanic being very good in a control deck as continual value is good. Hopefully it is not a creature only mechanic, as an enchantment style Oblivion Ring or something similarly difficult to remove would be great, perhaps a land like the Exalted land? The Reaver with an Extort permanent is like Sphinx's Revelation + WINCON that dodges much of the current standard removal suite.
the thing about extort is that it smooths out draws where you get semi-flooded and don't have enough high-CMC spells to close a game, and it gives you both reach and a longer clock for yourself. it doesn't give you raw power, it gives you consistency.
looking at the value they put on it, it's almost an incidental ability on the thrull, and it could be priced pretty aggressively.
Does this ability stck with other creatures with extort on the field? seems nasty
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Why people keep talking about a low CC permanents with extort?
Imagine a 1CC creature with exort. Would you pay 1 more for each of your spells for such effect?? Would you auto-thalia yourself to do 1 damage and gain 1 life? Is this a real question? This ability sucks completely, unless it changes from card to card and instead of draining life it does something else, or costs 0. If it cost 0, it'd be a free lightning helix every 3 spells that you can't target creatures with, which is not incredible but not bad if the permanent it's on is good enough by itself without the extort ability.
You obviously won't pay the extort cost if you are curving out, but lets be honest, you don't curve out every game. What happens when you don't have a tree drop in your hand, but you have multiple two drops? Every game isn't going to go according to plan, and that is where one of these things would be useful. A one or two drop with extort can account for 2-4 damage over the course of the game without attacking, or it eats removal and that is powerful.
Then again, only maybe useful on standard. In Modern or Legacy the early turns are the important ones.
Maybe what they give Orzhov/Dimir might make those early less meaningful. I can't wait to stretch those games out with my potentially new tools. The charms are what I'm especially waiting for what with my toolbox fetish.
Donno where the hate is coming from, but with extort being, hey ur other spells just got a extra kicker effect, i am totally down with it. Maybe most of these players forgot the flavor of orzhov, just take a look at pillory of sleepless.
Orzhov's style is to drain you bit by bit, and i think its actually more relevant as a mechanic for Orzhov than Haunting ever was. If you let them bleed you bit by bit with more permanents that can extort then next time they extort you it will be for multiple hp.
All orzhov needs is a couple of 2-3 cmc permanents with extort and you can see the kicker effect start to tax your opponent heavily when u play something and it leeches for an extra 2-3. Stalemates will start to favor orzhov in the long run.
I'm not convinced that you understand how this mechanic works.
Yes, but you are completely ignoring one fact that it is the interactions of the cards for the guild could make the ability interesting for people. Is it out of the realm of possibly for you to deny that there could be a card within the set that makes it more interesting.
Yes it is.
I'm not down on all of this whole set or anything; I think that that the Gruul mechanic is incredible and a perfect fit for that guild while also potentially being interesting and varied. Evolve and Battalion are cool new keywords too.
At 0 it'd be broken in storm.
I really don't care if the ability sucks as long as they bring overall good BW cards for once in their lives as I said last page :D.
earlier i said this mechanic was boring, well i take it back... kind of.
if this guild is truly going to be grindy and built around a mechanic like this, i could actually have quite a bit of fun. maybe they have a bunch of utility spells/creatures with big butts/protection instead of just playing guys and turning them sideways.
At 0 it'd be broken in storm.
I really don't care if the ability sucks as long as they bring overall good BW cards for once in their lives as I said last page :D.
I really doubt this. wotc would have to try pretty hard to make this keyword playable in storm. I honestly think it could cost 0 and it would still be much weaker than the current storm kills. Mostly because it would make you reliant on finding and casting the card with extort before going off.
Why people keep talking about a low CC permanents with extort?
Imagine a 1CC creature with exort. Would you pay 1 more for each of your spells for such effect?? Would you auto-thalia yourself to do 1 damage and gain 1 life? Is this a real question? This ability sucks completely, unless it changes from card to card and instead of draining life it does something else, or costs 0. If it cost 0, it'd be a free lightning helix every 3 spells that you can't target creatures with, which is not incredible but not bad if the permanent it's on is good enough by itself without the extort ability.
With the way they are flavoring the set, one can safely guess that there will be a cycle of 1-hybrid-mana uncommons for each guild. The Orzhov one could have Extort. Considering each of the five mechanic in RTR was printed on cards with only 2 CMC (Unleash and Scavenge was on the aforementioned 1 drops) It's not a stretch to think that it will happen again, since it's really one large 'set'. When Dragon's Maze is out it's all drafted together so there cannot be too much of a imbalance/difference between RTR and GTC.
It's a may ability. You absolutely do not need to do it for everything you cast. In most cases, it will fill out your curve for you. More often then not I've played limited games where there wasn't a five drop on turn five and I plopped down a four drop and left a mana unused. It's also a great late game reach. Board stalled, draw a bear, if you have three Extort abilities on the field then for 5CMC you get a dude and 6 point life swing. If you were both at 10 life, they would be at 7 and you at 13, that kind of life change can give you an opening to attack.
Plus, it's Orzhov, they are bound to have creatures that sacrifice themselves for an effect, which then you use this guy to recast and Extort.
I'm calling it now; there will be a low costed permanent that has 'Sacrifice ~: Target creature gets +1/+1 or -1/-1'
So you can use it with the Thrull, over and over again.
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Then it'd be a Standard thing at most, never to be good in bigger formats.
I'm not a tokens player, just tested the deck because I like to play BW decks, and that was the only possibility in Modern.
How is the ability far from weak? You like pinging your opponent for 1 and gaining 1 life? You feel like it helps to win the game in any way?
Could get even more bonkers with Blood Artist and similar cards.
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Well it all depends on the permanents that will have Extort, but as a long time Esper/(sometimes Grixis) Teachings player, having a way to use extra mana at the end of turn, especially as something as crucial as life bleed to increase the gap even further, is something any control player will tell you is amazing. It's the sole reason why Pristine talisman was seen in Solar Flare builds last standard and will be the reason Extort will see play in Orzhov/Esper control lists this season. All assuming once again if Extort is seen either on durable/cheap creatures or on noncreature permanents.
Extort also stacks. I will pay 2 extra on an end of turn Ultimate Price or Think Twice to make it an uncounterable Syphon Life as well, with no loss of card advantage.
The Extort mechanic is just gravy on the control package. An intensely flavorful and rewarding gravy. I just hope that angel is a bomb worth having (heres hoping for Identity Crisis stapled onto a 5/5 body).
Draining 1 life and doing that for every spell you play is decent enough.
Its obvisious not a mechanic for aggressive creature decks, much more for bleeding decks.
However its not a broken mechanic, its a long term thing, and MUCH better in multiplayer (drain 1 of each of them gain that much life).
So Orzhov is focused on EDH as it is. This guy here SCREAMS for a Sharuum deck, hes so good in Esper controllish EDH decks, so much fun with it.
Spike players that just look for T2 will have other cards and most likely other mechanics to look at, but this is EDH paradise here.
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Imagine a 1CC creature with exort. Would you pay 1 more for each of your spells for such effect?? Would you auto-thalia yourself to do 1 damage and gain 1 life? Is this a real question? This ability sucks completely, unless it changes from card to card and instead of draining life it does something else, or costs 0. If it cost 0, it'd be a free lightning helix every 3 spells that you can't target creatures with, which is not incredible but not bad if the permanent it's on is good enough by itself without the extort ability.
A 1 CMC Extort creature that was 1/1 would suck you're right, why would you want that?
It's a good thing it wasn't what I had in mind when I thought of good extort permanents.
You also realize Extort is an option right? It's not something you must pay but rather a tool you can use to your advantage. You aren't auto-thaliaing yourself, you are paying for an ability you can afford and want at a certain time.
Also this is a fine spell with Lingering Souls as well come to think of it. I can also envision a janky control deck with Drogskol Reaver as a finisher, drawing cards everytime you extort. To Christmasland I know, but 'tis the season.
Not early game, when you're struggling for mana, no. But if you've stabilized at, say, 8 HP, and on turn 6 your opponent drops a thalia on an empty field, you wouldn't care one bit.
If Extort is on a well-costed resilient permanent that helps you stabilize (say, a Journey to Nowhere variant), it will see a ton of play.
I love it.
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
looking at the value they put on it, it's almost an incidental ability on the thrull, and it could be priced pretty aggressively.
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You obviously won't pay the extort cost if you are curving out, but lets be honest, you don't curve out every game. What happens when you don't have a tree drop in your hand, but you have multiple two drops? Every game isn't going to go according to plan, and that is where one of these things would be useful. A one or two drop with extort can account for 2-4 damage over the course of the game without attacking, or it eats removal and that is powerful.
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Maybe what they give Orzhov/Dimir might make those early less meaningful. I can't wait to stretch those games out with my potentially new tools. The charms are what I'm especially waiting for what with my toolbox fetish.
I'm not convinced that you understand how this mechanic works.
Yes it is.
I'm not down on all of this whole set or anything; I think that that the Gruul mechanic is incredible and a perfect fit for that guild while also potentially being interesting and varied. Evolve and Battalion are cool new keywords too.
He described it just fine. Are you sure you understand?
I get it. Everyone has the entire block thought out and nothing at all in it is good.
I'm actually looking forward to the ajani's pridemate variants, one drops, and the lifegain triggers. This mechanic embodies white/black pretty well.
I really don't care if the ability sucks as long as they bring overall good BW cards for once in their lives as I said last page :D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
if this guild is truly going to be grindy and built around a mechanic like this, i could actually have quite a bit of fun. maybe they have a bunch of utility spells/creatures with big butts/protection instead of just playing guys and turning them sideways.
I really doubt this. wotc would have to try pretty hard to make this keyword playable in storm. I honestly think it could cost 0 and it would still be much weaker than the current storm kills. Mostly because it would make you reliant on finding and casting the card with extort before going off.
Then go read any of the other threads about the good/interesting preview cards. Sheesh, not every card/keyword is good.
With the way they are flavoring the set, one can safely guess that there will be a cycle of 1-hybrid-mana uncommons for each guild. The Orzhov one could have Extort. Considering each of the five mechanic in RTR was printed on cards with only 2 CMC (Unleash and Scavenge was on the aforementioned 1 drops) It's not a stretch to think that it will happen again, since it's really one large 'set'. When Dragon's Maze is out it's all drafted together so there cannot be too much of a imbalance/difference between RTR and GTC.
Auto-Thalia, Guardian of Thraben yourself? Hardly.
It's a may ability. You absolutely do not need to do it for everything you cast. In most cases, it will fill out your curve for you. More often then not I've played limited games where there wasn't a five drop on turn five and I plopped down a four drop and left a mana unused. It's also a great late game reach. Board stalled, draw a bear, if you have three Extort abilities on the field then for 5CMC you get a dude and 6 point life swing. If you were both at 10 life, they would be at 7 and you at 13, that kind of life change can give you an opening to attack.
Plus, it's Orzhov, they are bound to have creatures that sacrifice themselves for an effect, which then you use this guy to recast and Extort.
I'm calling it now; there will be a low costed permanent that has 'Sacrifice ~: Target creature gets +1/+1 or -1/-1'
So you can use it with the Thrull, over and over again.