Can you stack the ability? Like play one spell and tap three mana to deal 3 and gain 3?
Each instance of extort provides you an opportunity
to play a B/ for life drain.
so if you had 3 of the thrulls you would have 3 triggers,
and chances to respond by paying the cost.
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Extort seems very weak outside of multiplayer. It is very flavourful, though.
I think that one thing that RTR proved is that all of the mechanics are useful and well-balanced (for limited). Even Izzet, which looked like the dud guild early, ended up being quite good because its overload mechanic was put onto some cards that ended up being really, really good. Similarly for Rakdos, where the idea of just adding a +1/+1 counter to a creature being worth that creature being unable to block seemed preposterous; but if you look at the creatures they put unleash on, they actually are very strong.
I think that's the key here - Wizards balanced the guilds; if their guild ability is weak or narrow, they put it on good cards to make up for that. For this reason I expect that Orzhov is going to get some pretty good cards, because Extort by itself is not a mechanic that is going to win games outright like Overload or Populate can.
EDIT: Also, someone pointed out that Orzhov may get spells that interact with life gain or life loss, and that makes perfect sense as a way to pump up the utility of the guild ability.
I'm really curious to know what kind of abilities the new Orzhov guildmage will have that will interact with Extort but not be too similar to the original guildmage's abilities.
That's the rub. Alone it's pretty weak. But a set of Extort can turn the tide, theoretically.
If you have a ton of mana. Sure, late game it can theoretically break stalls. But earlier in a game, when mana efficiency is paramount? Extort is worthless in the situations that matter.
I like this card a lot, not only is the mechanic really flavorful but its attack trigger is pretty much a reclaim. You could argue whether or not its trigger is better or worse than Sun Titan which is the closest card I can think of at the moment.
My only question is: Can you pay the extort cost multiple times for the same spell or just once? (is it really a mana sink?)
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Why on earth are we making EDH keywords now? Is Wizards that desperate? Unless you're playing some massive EDH casual thingy, this is crap. Even then, its decent. Come on, Wizards, maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to casual players.
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Boo hoo, this card doesn't cater for you. You can go look at some of the other 249 cards.
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You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
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If you have a ton of mana. Sure, late game it can theoretically break stalls. But earlier in a game, when mana efficiency is paramount? Extort is worthless in the situations that matter.
That's why extort can potentially be good though, it allows you to have a mana sink if you don't curve out like you had hoped meaning mana won't go to waste.
Why on earth are we making EDH keywords now? Is Wizards that desperate? Unless you're playing some massive EDH casual thingy, this is crap. Even then, its decent. Come on, Wizards, maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to casual players.
Because sanctioned tournaments are the only REAL way to play...
Why on earth are we making EDH keywords now? Is Wizards that desperate? Unless you're playing some massive EDH casual thingy, this is crap. Even then, its decent. Come on, Wizards, maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to casual players.
Casual players are their largest markets. Also, B/W only interact in so many places, and drain is one of the better places where they overlap. Pay the Mafia, Tithe to the Church. Very flavorful
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EDH W/U Lavinia of the Tenth G/W Selvala, Explorer Returned B Mono-black random General R/G Xenagos, God of Revels U/B Wydwen the BIting Gale
This seems like a very powerful mechanic as an "add-on" to alraedy good cards - I imagine primarily non-creature spells. If they reprinted O-Ring at 1WB with this for instance, it would enable control to be very grindy and reduce even further the need for dedicated win-conditions
If you have a ton of mana. Sure, late game it can theoretically break stalls. But earlier in a game, when mana efficiency is paramount? Extort is worthless in the situations that matter.
Extort seems like lots of grindy fun. It's hardly overpowered, but having a bunch of these guys out on the battlefield and cheap spells means that your opponent can get dollars-and-centsed to death. I love the flavor of it too; the Orzhov can frame you for everything they do, so every time they do something nasty, you find a small army of low-level scrubs at your door trying to collect.
If you have a ton of mana. Sure, late game it can theoretically break stalls. But earlier in a game, when mana efficiency is paramount? Extort is worthless in the situations that matter.
Exactly, it requires that you have several permaments in play, lots of mana and a spell you can cast in your hand. If you have all those things going for you than there should be more powerful things you could be doing.
Why on earth are we making EDH keywords now? Is Wizards that desperate? Unless you're playing some massive EDH casual thingy, this is crap. Even then, its decent. Come on, Wizards, maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to casual players.
The thing is, it's not useless. Lots of turns, especially in control decks you may have some extra mana open at the end of an opponents turn. End of turn Think Twice with 1 mana open? Might as well Extort and make the difference in our life totals that much greater. If this happens every turns and even in multiples, this will be used to great effect. It's not that great for an agro set up (at least from the cards seen/deduced from an orzhov playstyle) but it works to a great effect for the typical orzhov bleeder style.
It's also bonkers in multiplayer casual, which I just got back from playing :). I can't be more excited as a die hard Orzhov fan from last Ravnica. Go Orzhov!
I see this card getting play. Maybe not right when Gatecrash drops, but who knows what enchantments and artifacts are to come. This could also see play in modern if mana ramp or reanimation is available to get around the casting cost.
I think the second ability, which has nothing to do with the mechanic, is pretty awesome.
Extort seems very weak outside of multiplayer. It is very flavourful, though.
The fact that it discourages playing more than two colours could also hurt it in limited.
There are still many more cards with the mechanics to be spoiled, but so far, it seems like the weakest for both limited and constructed.
How does it discourage playing multicolor at all? It's off any spell...
4/4 for 6 cmc that's two colors, has no etb, requires attacking to activate, makes every spell you cast a potential cmc+1 pinger. Weak. It's going to make every card with the keyword overcosted.
This mechanics value is in that it gives freemana a place. I HATE lands that sit around doing nothing. This makes every permanent you control with extort into a mana sink engine. Play a 1 drop on turn 5 with 3 extorts on the field and thats some decent mana value for each card played.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
So to make sure I have this right, I can only pay a B/ once for each instance? So I couldn't pay like 5 white or black mana on a single exort trigger correct? Thanks.
Personally, I think 1 mana for 1 damage and 1 life gain is overcosted. Add in that it has to be B/W in a time of 4/5 color decks being viable and that essentially it slows your tempo by a turn if you're trying to make use of it, I just don't see it being good.
Best case scenario would be something like Lingering Souls, and I don't want to be casting it for 4 or 5.
I could be totally wrong though. I'm just underwhelmed.
The mechanic is only as narrow as exalted. I have to agree with the sentiment that it's best on cheaper permanents so that you can get them down early and use the extra sinks to fill out your curve for value, but it's not terrible. At least as long as it doesn't increase mana costs too much.
"Destroy target creature or lose 2 life" is strictly better than "Destroy target creature". Options make cards stronger, regardless of how efficient/good/powerful they are.
Whether or not the mechanic is viable in constructed formats or not really depends on the cards that they'll print with it. I will grant that in 60-card deck formats, this particular card is likely too expensive to see play. EDH will love it, though, because EDH loves repeatable graveyard recursion. For them, the Extort ability is just gravy (although it does provide an instant win-con for the mana infinite spells to produce infinite mana combos).
With some more aggressively costed cards, I can see this making an impact in standard. Just go to the thread about Thragtusk and see how much rage there is about the lifegain aspect of that card. If they printed a good defender or first striker creature, or maybe a controllish enchantment card with extort, then I can easily see a control deck sitting back and wearing down the opponent with small Life Drains attached to each of their control spells. I could see many an aggro deck flipping the table in rage at that match-up.
Cons: Very narrow, not incredibly powerful outside of multiplayer.
Pros: It's an uncounterable life drain effect that can happen whenever you cast a spell, and the spell doesn't have to be black/white, VERY strong in multiplayer.
Fine. Keywords never change between cards so long as a numbered variable isn't on the keyword itself (notable exceptions being annihilator, bloodthirst, and devour, among others). So Extort will always be 1 for 1.
And for the people asking, Extort triggers once for each spell you cast for each permanent with Extort you have. So you would have to pay three mana to extort three times, and only if you had at least three extort permanents out.
Value thrull gives value... My fist impression of this card was that it was a bad Sun Titan, and it is, but really, that might be good enough right now. Really looking forward to seeing what cheaper extort cards (really needs to be a playable enchantment with the keyword) they came up with as a good playable extort card might just be a good alternate win con in Omnidoor ramp decks.
How does it discourage playing multicolor at all? It's off any spell...
4/4 for 6 cmc that's two colors, has no etb, requires attacking to activate, makes every spell you cast a potential cmc+1 pinger. Weak. It's going to make every card with the keyword overcosted.
It made THIS creature overcosted. hopefully not all of them will be. A 0/1 1 drop with extort would be in MBC
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Each instance of extort provides you an opportunity
to play a B/ for life drain.
so if you had 3 of the thrulls you would have 3 triggers,
and chances to respond by paying the cost.
Avid teacher of Magic to new players.
Flavor enthusiast, Storyteller, and Illustrator
Red Blue aligned Mage
I play limited, casual modern, and keep several standard decks on hand.
In process of writing articles about MTG as a subculture delving into it from a sociological standpoint. If you know of a mtg site looking for a column like that, please private message me. Thanks
I think that one thing that RTR proved is that all of the mechanics are useful and well-balanced (for limited). Even Izzet, which looked like the dud guild early, ended up being quite good because its overload mechanic was put onto some cards that ended up being really, really good. Similarly for Rakdos, where the idea of just adding a +1/+1 counter to a creature being worth that creature being unable to block seemed preposterous; but if you look at the creatures they put unleash on, they actually are very strong.
I think that's the key here - Wizards balanced the guilds; if their guild ability is weak or narrow, they put it on good cards to make up for that. For this reason I expect that Orzhov is going to get some pretty good cards, because Extort by itself is not a mechanic that is going to win games outright like Overload or Populate can.
EDIT: Also, someone pointed out that Orzhov may get spells that interact with life gain or life loss, and that makes perfect sense as a way to pump up the utility of the guild ability.
I'm really curious to know what kind of abilities the new Orzhov guildmage will have that will interact with Extort but not be too similar to the original guildmage's abilities.
If you have a ton of mana. Sure, late game it can theoretically break stalls. But earlier in a game, when mana efficiency is paramount? Extort is worthless in the situations that matter.
It like Exalted--it doesn't vary, always +1/+1.
........................
My only question is: Can you pay the extort cost multiple times for the same spell or just once? (is it really a mana sink?)
-Anonymous
"Maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to limited players."
"Maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to constructed players."
"Maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to standard players."
"Maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to modern players."
"Maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to legacy players."
"Maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to vintage players."
"Maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to new players."
"Maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to old players."
Boo hoo, this card doesn't cater for you. You can go look at some of the other 249 cards.
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
The Winner is Judge | 7
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That's why extort can potentially be good though, it allows you to have a mana sink if you don't curve out like you had hoped meaning mana won't go to waste.
Because sanctioned tournaments are the only REAL way to play...
Casual players are their largest markets. Also, B/W only interact in so many places, and drain is one of the better places where they overlap. Pay the Mafia, Tithe to the Church. Very flavorful
W/U Lavinia of the Tenth
G/W Selvala, Explorer Returned
B Mono-black random General
R/G Xenagos, God of Revels
U/B Wydwen the BIting Gale
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Same can be said for a lot of mechanics.
........................
Cubetutor Link
Exactly, it requires that you have several permaments in play, lots of mana and a spell you can cast in your hand. If you have all those things going for you than there should be more powerful things you could be doing.
The thing is, it's not useless. Lots of turns, especially in control decks you may have some extra mana open at the end of an opponents turn. End of turn Think Twice with 1 mana open? Might as well Extort and make the difference in our life totals that much greater. If this happens every turns and even in multiples, this will be used to great effect. It's not that great for an agro set up (at least from the cards seen/deduced from an orzhov playstyle) but it works to a great effect for the typical orzhov bleeder style.
It's also bonkers in multiplayer casual, which I just got back from playing :). I can't be more excited as a die hard Orzhov fan from last Ravnica. Go Orzhov!
I think the second ability, which has nothing to do with the mechanic, is pretty awesome.
How does it discourage playing multicolor at all? It's off any spell...
4/4 for 6 cmc that's two colors, has no etb, requires attacking to activate, makes every spell you cast a potential cmc+1 pinger. Weak. It's going to make every card with the keyword overcosted.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
Best case scenario would be something like Lingering Souls, and I don't want to be casting it for 4 or 5.
I could be totally wrong though. I'm just underwhelmed.
"Destroy target creature or lose 2 life" is strictly better than "Destroy target creature". Options make cards stronger, regardless of how efficient/good/powerful they are.
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With some more aggressively costed cards, I can see this making an impact in standard. Just go to the thread about Thragtusk and see how much rage there is about the lifegain aspect of that card. If they printed a good defender or first striker creature, or maybe a controllish enchantment card with extort, then I can easily see a control deck sitting back and wearing down the opponent with small Life Drains attached to each of their control spells. I could see many an aggro deck flipping the table in rage at that match-up.
Cons: Very narrow, not incredibly powerful outside of multiplayer.
Pros: It's an uncounterable life drain effect that can happen whenever you cast a spell, and the spell doesn't have to be black/white, VERY strong in multiplayer.
Fine. Keywords never change between cards so long as a numbered variable isn't on the keyword itself (notable exceptions being annihilator, bloodthirst, and devour, among others). So Extort will always be 1 for 1.
And for the people asking, Extort triggers once for each spell you cast for each permanent with Extort you have. So you would have to pay three mana to extort three times, and only if you had at least three extort permanents out.
It made THIS creature overcosted. hopefully not all of them will be. A 0/1 1 drop with extort would be in MBC