Seeing as they're all the same kind of counter, I don't see how you would. Why do you need soulbond markers? Just place the two bonded creatures adjacent to each other on the battlefield.
I've seen plenty of games grind to a standstill and result in a judge call because people claimed a soulbond creature was unpaired or paired to the card on the other side of it. It was a pretty poorly designed mechanic from a tracking perspective. So people started putting counters on creatures that were soulbound. Which works until you soulbound a creature to two other creatures, then you need different colors counters, and then you throw +1/+1 counters into the mix, and then tokens represented with dice which are even more of a headache trying to figure out which ones are tapped or summoning sick or what colors the tokens are...
It's just a hassle. It's a card game, not a dice game. When your board state looks more like dueling Yahtzee players, maybe we've gone a little overboard on the dice thing.
Putting counters on things is 'fun'.
"Fun" is in the eye of the beholder, then. Counters, and the evolve mechanic, are just lazy design IMHO. The "counter" design space has been done to death.
Oh wow... Evolve looks like something that could get out of hand really, REALLY fast...
Ehh, looks pretty weak to me. Takes to long to make your puny guys real threats, requires you to have perfect tempo to always drop bigger and bigger dudes, and one board wipe and you're back to square 1
If it was Evolve X, it would have a lot more potential. A 1/1 with Evolve 2 would be a solid card. As it is, IMHO, it's the worst new Mechanic so far.
"Fun" is in the eye of the beholder, then. Counters, and the evolve mechanic, are just lazy design IMHO. The "counter" design space has been done to death.
I partially agree. I think it's fine, interesting even, that three (so far!) of the guild mechanics involve +1/+1 counters. Some overlap like that can create some "puzzle-solving" situations like putting counters on Unleash creatures so they can't block, or using Scavenge cards to make your Evolve creatures huge all at once.
However I do agree with you that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters have become sort of played recently. They used to be a cool thing that showed up once in awhile. Now they appear in every single block and don't feel nearly as cool or special as they used to.
I've seen plenty of games grind to a standstill and result in a judge call because people claimed a soulbond creature was unpaired or paired to the card on the other side of it. It was a pretty poorly designed mechanic from a tracking perspective. So people started putting counters on creatures that were soulbound. Which works until you soulbound a creature to two other creatures, then you need different colors counters, and then you throw +1/+1 counters into the mix, and then tokens represented with dice which are even more of a headache trying to figure out which ones are tapped or summoning sick or what colors the tokens are...
Uhm... You can only soulbond a creature to one other creature, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Uhm... You can only soulbond a creature to one other creature, so that shouldn't be an issue.
The problem he mentioned was the tracking. In my LGS, because my deck uses +1/+1 counters all the time, I place the soulbonded creatures one ahead of the other, and, there goes by the problem. Doing that since the first spoilers of it, on Cockatrice. And yet players find complicated ways to do it, and the worst part is that people exploit the tracking problems to cheat.
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(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
Nothing. All I want is Heroes vs. Monsters spoilers.
Ehh, looks pretty weak to me. Takes to long to make your puny guys real threats, requires you to have perfect tempo to always drop bigger and bigger dudes, and one board wipe and you're back to square 1
If it was Evolve X, it would have a lot more potential. A 1/1 with Evolve 2 would be a solid card. As it is, IMHO, it's the worst new Mechanic so far.
You have seen two cards with the mechanic. You know nothing of how this limited format plays out. You have not played with the ability, you've just drawn a quick assumption. Watch this:
If it was Unleash X, it would have a lot more potential. A 1/1 with Unleash 2 would be a solid card. As it is, IMHO, it's the worst new Mechanic so far.
So the cheaper Evolve creatures or the ones with abilities that trigger off counters would have a bad manacost-to-size ratio (P/W < CMC) because it is easier to evolve.
I thought at first that larger evolve creatures would not be as good because you would need an even bigger creature to evolve it. Then I realized that you could just make a cost efficient creature with evolve to make up for the difficulties of evolving it.
There's a lot of design space with this mechanic. I like how it wants a higher power OR toughness. The many high toughness creatures in RTR and possibly GTC will tigger the ability reliably.
You have seen two cards with the mechanic. You know nothing of how this limited format plays out. You have not played with the ability, you've just drawn a quick assumption. Watch this:
Sound familiar?
The sad thing is, much like this mechanic, when I first saw Unleash I was floored. I really dont understand why ppl dont see whats obviously a beastly mechanic when it's right in front of them. Free 1/1 counter for doing what you want to do anyways is almost NEVER BAD.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
pay 2 to move the +1+1 counter is great so the evolve ability is useful anytime of the game!
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GU Experiment Kraj- all your abilities belong to us WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts- battlecruiser GUB The Mimeoplasm- when graveyards are not safe RGW Mayael the Anima- i luv the fatties
I think this is going to be the rakdos of gatecrash, being able to curve off properly with evolve creatures means you'll have an army of 3/3s or 4/4s by turn 4.
I use pennies. As everything. I used to have various colored glass fish tank stones but got tired of hauling them around. It only gets confusing if you dont keep them organised or if your playing in a format supporting both + & - counters. Believe thats part of why we dont see both in a set.
a simple bag of 6 sided die will do the trick
i play 3 player a lot and everyone uses them for SOMETHING and we always have enough
Since wizards just confirmed evolve, i dont think theres a need to doubt.
But the kid "pulled" it from an RTR pack at FNM
Just the like rootborn defenses pulled from an M13 pack.
Big thanks to Rivenor for the sig!!
I've seen plenty of games grind to a standstill and result in a judge call because people claimed a soulbond creature was unpaired or paired to the card on the other side of it. It was a pretty poorly designed mechanic from a tracking perspective. So people started putting counters on creatures that were soulbound. Which works until you soulbound a creature to two other creatures, then you need different colors counters, and then you throw +1/+1 counters into the mix, and then tokens represented with dice which are even more of a headache trying to figure out which ones are tapped or summoning sick or what colors the tokens are...
It's just a hassle. It's a card game, not a dice game. When your board state looks more like dueling Yahtzee players, maybe we've gone a little overboard on the dice thing.
"Fun" is in the eye of the beholder, then. Counters, and the evolve mechanic, are just lazy design IMHO. The "counter" design space has been done to death.
Ehh, looks pretty weak to me. Takes to long to make your puny guys real threats, requires you to have perfect tempo to always drop bigger and bigger dudes, and one board wipe and you're back to square 1
If it was Evolve X, it would have a lot more potential. A 1/1 with Evolve 2 would be a solid card. As it is, IMHO, it's the worst new Mechanic so far.
I partially agree. I think it's fine, interesting even, that three (so far!) of the guild mechanics involve +1/+1 counters. Some overlap like that can create some "puzzle-solving" situations like putting counters on Unleash creatures so they can't block, or using Scavenge cards to make your Evolve creatures huge all at once.
However I do agree with you that +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters have become sort of played recently. They used to be a cool thing that showed up once in awhile. Now they appear in every single block and don't feel nearly as cool or special as they used to.
Something CMC = 1 "T: Add {1/G/U} to your mana pool" + Evolve would be, to start, my favorite card ever. Then, it would cost more than Noble Hierarch.
And I see this coming.
(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
Uhm... You can only soulbond a creature to one other creature, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
The problem he mentioned was the tracking. In my LGS, because my deck uses +1/+1 counters all the time, I place the soulbonded creatures one ahead of the other, and, there goes by the problem. Doing that since the first spoilers of it, on Cockatrice. And yet players find complicated ways to do it, and the worst part is that people exploit the tracking problems to cheat.
(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
You have seen two cards with the mechanic. You know nothing of how this limited format plays out. You have not played with the ability, you've just drawn a quick assumption. Watch this:
Sound familiar?
I thought at first that larger evolve creatures would not be as good because you would need an even bigger creature to evolve it. Then I realized that you could just make a cost efficient creature with evolve to make up for the difficulties of evolving it.
There's a lot of design space with this mechanic. I like how it wants a higher power OR toughness. The many high toughness creatures in RTR and possibly GTC will tigger the ability reliably.
The sad thing is, much like this mechanic, when I first saw Unleash I was floored. I really dont understand why ppl dont see whats obviously a beastly mechanic when it's right in front of them. Free 1/1 counter for doing what you want to do anyways is almost NEVER BAD.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
BUG deck with evolve cards and Desecration Demon to drive 'em! Awesome...
GU Experiment Kraj- all your abilities belong to us
WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts- battlecruiser
GUB The Mimeoplasm- when graveyards are not safe
RGW Mayael the Anima- i luv the fatties
a simple bag of 6 sided die will do the trick
i play 3 player a lot and everyone uses them for SOMETHING and we always have enough