I almost spat my coffee all over my computer screen.
Thank you Wizards for the free money.
Though I absolutely agree it is a fantasic promo, it isnt as free as people make it out to be.
First of all you need 15 qp's, which is by no means an easy feat.
For example you get 1 qp from 3-0' ing a draft. Lets say the better and more experience players under us can do this 2/3rd of the time (which is an incredible feat by itself). This means they have to play 21 drafts in a month and keep up such an amazing win ratio.
Considering a draft will take up about 3.5-4 hours of your time, this will mean you will have to spend 84 hours drafting alone to get that many QP's.
Now if you are not one of those prodigies, and you 3-0 50% of the time this equates to 120 hours.
Which equates to the same amount of time you would spend in 15 work days.
You can always take the 'shortcut' and win multiple events, or top 8 them, but again this is not an easy feat.
From this point on you can attain multiple copies of the promo card:
All players who qualify for the Season Preliminaries or Season Finals will automatically receive a copy of that season's promo card awarded to their qualifying account during the scheduled maintenance period prior to the Season Preliminaries. If for any reason there is no scheduled maintenance on that date, the promo card will be awarded during the next scheduled maintenance period.
2013 MAGIC ONLINE CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES SEASON PRELIMINARIES DETAILS
START TIME: Scheduled start times listed as posted on the MOCS schedule above.
LOCATION: Scheduled Events room.
ENTRY REQUIREMENT: 15 Qualifier Points for the appropriate season.
PRODUCT: Players will need to supply an appropriate format legal deck for constructed format events. Magic Online will supply the correct Phantom product for limited format events (such as booster draft or sealed deck).
SIZE: 33 players minimum, 1024 players maximum.
DURATION: Six 50-minute, Swiss pairings rounds.
PRIZES: Prizes are based on the total Match Points at the end of the tournament. Each match win awards 3 points and each match loss awards 0 points.
Match
Points Prize
18 35 Qualifier Points and 1 premium foil copy of that season's promo card
15 35 Qualifier Points and 1 standard non-foil copy of that season's promo card
12 1 standard non-foil copy of that season's promo card
Though I absolutely agree it is a fantasic promo, it isnt as free as people make it out to be.
First of all you need 15 qp's, which is by no means an easy feat.
For example you get 1 qp from 3-0' ing a draft. Lets say the better and more experience players under us can do this 2/3rd of the time (which is an incredible feat by itself). This means they have to play 21 drafts in a month and keep up such an amazing win ratio.
Considering a draft will take up about 3.5-4 hours of your time, this will mean you will have to spend 84 hours drafting alone to get that many QP's.
Now if you are not one of those prodigies, and you 3-0 50% of the time this equates to 120 hours.
Which equates to the same amount of time you would spend in 15 work days.
Its really easy grinding constructed to get 15 QP's in 2 weeks, assuming you work a part time job and don't play MTGO everyday of the week.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
You can however join multiple prelim qualifers when you attain 15 qp's, and there will be 4 prelims each season.
As I read it, each prelim you enter costs you 15 QP. So to enter 2, you'll need to either have 30 points or 15 points and do 5-1 or better in your first one.
As I read it, each prelim you enter costs you 15 QP. So to enter 2, you'll need to either have 30 points or 15 points and do 5-1 or better in your first one.
nah I thought this too at first, but it is just worded awkwardly here.
Somewhere else in the article states that you can enter multiple prelims once you attain the 15 QP's.
It is a requirement, not an entry fee.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
nah I thought this too at first, but it is just worded awkwardly here.
Somewhere else in the article states that you can enter multiple prelims once you attain the 15 QP's.
It is a requirement, not an entry fee.
Do you mean this?
Second, we are eliminating byes as they currently exist. Instead, players who earn 35 QPs can just join the Season Finals directly, bypassing the need to play in the Season Preliminaries. Players who earn enough QPs are free to join multiple Season Preliminaries tournaments to try and make it to the Season Finals.
I read that to mean that if you have 30QP you can use them to enter 2 Prelims.
How many of you think this is a sign that they will eventually reprint it in real life?
Mark Rosewater already stated in his blog that R&D were testing Force of Will extensively in Standard and they just couldn't work it out, so they've now come to the conclusion it'll see a reprint in a product that won't be legal in Standard.
I'm not sure the best way to distribute them as promos or as a reprint, though. Commander, for example, would be a terrible way to reprint FoW. Eternal players would eat up the product, causing it rise tremmendously in price before it was even released. FTV is simply not an effective way to do so, either, given that one usually wants a FoW playset, not a singleton, so it'd be hard to find a copy of FTV for it's normal 35-100$ if FoW was included. They really can't print it as a playset in a product, either, because collectors and speculators would just hoard that product immediately.
That's the problem with reprinting eternal staples.
It's pretty easy to grind Pauper if you have Infect/Storm (those decks have the most "oops I win" moments) going to try to see if I can't run the gauntlet with pauper decks. Most QPs I've ever received was 5 in a season (albeit I wasn't grinding for a FOW). I'll will attempt to get to 15 QPs this season, I think I have to at least try.
I'll probably flesh out my Modern Robots deck and try to do well in Modern/Pauper.
I don't think I'll be able to grind to 30 QP and then do well enough to get additional FoWs. But getting 1 or 2 would be a start (15 points, then well enough in the qualifier)
Mark Rosewater already stated in his blog that R&D were testing Force of Will extensively in Standard and they just couldn't work it out, so they've now come to the conclusion it'll see a reprint in a product that won't be legal in Standard.
I'm not sure the best way to distribute them as promos or as a reprint, though. Commander, for example, would be a terrible way to reprint FoW. Eternal players would eat up the product, causing it rise tremmendously in price before it was even released. FTV is simply not an effective way to do so, either, given that one usually wants a FoW playset, not a singleton, so it'd be hard to find a copy of FTV for it's normal 35-100$ if FoW was included. They really can't print it as a playset in a product, either, because collectors and speculators would just hoard that product immediately.
That's the problem with reprinting eternal staples.
I think it should start at the GP level, I think if it was a GP foil first that would get the ball rolling. Next, I think including it as a 2x or 3x in a dual deck is the way to go first. Gets a lot out there initially. You can't worry about hoarders/speculators because they are going to be there regardless on how it is released.
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
Mark Rosewater already stated in his blog that R&D were testing Force of Will extensively in Standard and they just couldn't work it out, so they've now come to the conclusion it'll see a reprint in a product that won't be legal in Standard.
I'm not sure the best way to distribute them as promos or as a reprint, though. Commander, for example, would be a terrible way to reprint FoW. Eternal players would eat up the product, causing it rise tremmendously in price before it was even released. FTV is simply not an effective way to do so, either, given that one usually wants a FoW playset, not a singleton, so it'd be hard to find a copy of FTV for it's normal 35-100$ if FoW was included. They really can't print it as a playset in a product, either, because collectors and speculators would just hoard that product immediately.
That's the problem with reprinting eternal staples.
They could perfectly include it with the new art in a Duel Deck, coupled with a Foil release in a special product (FTV for example). Duel Decks are produced in huge amounts, so price gouging would be next to impossible on them.
Of course, that would crash the market, but there is no Reserve List for FoW, Wasteland... and several other Legacy staples that they could perfectly reprint, but choose not to.
I think WotC is testing the market with the MTGO release. If the pricedrop is within bounds but still reasonable, they might do a reprint in paper too.
As for the difficulty and time spent to get 15 QP, keep in mind that the first week is a week a lot of people will have a week off and can grind as much as they want.
So it's not unreasonable to spend 8 hours a day or more in the first week. And also keep in mind that people can multibox. 2 Drafts at the same time is very doable for a lot of people.
Still, 15 QP is a solid investment.
I do hope this sparks the Legacy MTGO scene up again. I love Legacy! (except the rediculous prices)
I am not sure of the percentages, but about 300-500 people play the MOCS at the end of each season.
And there are also some amount of people that have more than 15 QPs at the end of each season that do not play the end of season MOCS for one reason or another.
Is 1,000 people a right estimate for the amount of people with at least 15 QP's at the end of each season?
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I am not sure of the percentages, but about 300-500 people play the MOCS at the end of each season.
And there are also some amount of people that have more than 15 QPs at the end of each season that do not play the end of season MOCS for one reason or another.
Is 1,000 people a right estimate for the amount of people with at least 15 QP's at the end of each season?
It depends on the format how many people play. I know there was at least one sealed tournament that reached capacity at 1,028, so I would guess that 1,000 total is a little low.
It depends on the format how many people play. I know there was at least one sealed tournament that reached capacity at 1,028, so I would guess that 1,000 total is a little low.
Right, derp, 500 was the turnout for the Legacy MOCS.
So the question now is, what percentage is 2000 out of the number of people playing MTGO?
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I am not sure of the percentages, but about 300-500 people play the MOCS at the end of each season.
And there are also some amount of people that have more than 15 QPs at the end of each season that do not play the end of season MOCS for one reason or another.
Is 1,000 people a right estimate for the amount of people with at least 15 QP's at the end of each season?
I know i've personally qualified for at least 3 mocs that I didn't play in last year due to other stuff going on that day so i'm pretty sure there's a huge number of people who just don't show.
According to Lee Sharpe on Twitter (@Lee_Sharpe) you can earn a maximum of 3 Force of Will per account:
"Yes, if you get 15 QP, X-2 or better a prelim, and top 64 the finals, then you'll get one promo card for each (three total)."
That is not the maximum. It's an example.
The maximum is 6. You get 1 for 15 QP or more. You can technically play in all 4 preliminaries, and if you had 50QP, there's no reason not to play in at least one, because you'd stil lhave enough QPs to get into the champs. If you got QPs from that one you'd also have another FoW and you could play in at least 2 more. Going 5-1 in one and say 4-2 in another would give you 2 more, and the QPs needed to play in the final, where you need to go 4-2 for your 5th FoW.
Then you could top 64 the finals and end up with another.
6 Total.
Many people have ground out 50QPs in a season before.
There will be a LOT of Force of Will promos in the system
I wasn't going to bother qualifying this month. And since it's Legacy, there's even less of a reason. But if I can get a $100 card for getting 15 QPs, I guess I've got to go for it.
<so I take it you're a garbage standard player then?>
How many of you think this is a sign that they will eventually reprint it in real life?
The reprint is much more badly needed on MTGO.
Paper, Force of Will isn't the big expense for Legacy, it's dual lands (and to a lesser extent Tarmogoyf and Wasteland but they are high on MTGO too). But in MTGO, dual lands are in much higher print (each one rare in two ME sets) than Force of Will (rare in only one ME set, with a firm promise made not to reprint it in a booster product).
A 40-50% drop in FoW's price on MTGO would make Legacy much more viable online. In doing so it would push up interest in other format staples like dual lands, both fetchlands, Wasteland and the like, probably increasing the total value of most players' and dealers' collections (except for those few that own four foil Force of Wills).
OTOH a paper 40-50% fall in Force's price would have little impact in Legacy's overall price as a format or its appeal.
I love this promo, but why have we all of a sudden, gotten an awesome promo for this season? I'm not complaining at all as this seems like such a great thing for legacy players or for people to get into this format, but why hasn't there been a promo like this before? Every other QP I've qualified for has given us 2-3 dollar rares like Sol Ring.
Though I absolutely agree it is a fantasic promo, it isnt as free as people make it out to be.
First of all you need 15 qp's, which is by no means an easy feat.
For example you get 1 qp from 3-0' ing a draft. Lets say the better and more experience players under us can do this 2/3rd of the time (which is an incredible feat by itself). This means they have to play 21 drafts in a month and keep up such an amazing win ratio.
Considering a draft will take up about 3.5-4 hours of your time, this will mean you will have to spend 84 hours drafting alone to get that many QP's.
Now if you are not one of those prodigies, and you 3-0 50% of the time this equates to 120 hours.
Which equates to the same amount of time you would spend in 15 work days.
You can always take the 'shortcut' and win multiple events, or top 8 them, but again this is not an easy feat.
From this point on you can attain multiple copies of the promo card:
You can however join multiple prelim qualifers when you attain 15 qp's, and there will be 4 prelims each season.
So in theory if you are god amongst men you can earn up to 6 copies of FoW, and a max of 5 foil copies.
Edited: found the missing links
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Its really easy grinding constructed to get 15 QP's in 2 weeks, assuming you work a part time job and don't play MTGO everyday of the week.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
As I read it, each prelim you enter costs you 15 QP. So to enter 2, you'll need to either have 30 points or 15 points and do 5-1 or better in your first one.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
nah I thought this too at first, but it is just worded awkwardly here.
Somewhere else in the article states that you can enter multiple prelims once you attain the 15 QP's.
It is a requirement, not an entry fee.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Do you mean this?
I read that to mean that if you have 30QP you can use them to enter 2 Prelims.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
I agree it is still a very ambiguous description, the only way to verify it is to get an official statement I guess
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Mark Rosewater already stated in his blog that R&D were testing Force of Will extensively in Standard and they just couldn't work it out, so they've now come to the conclusion it'll see a reprint in a product that won't be legal in Standard.
I'm not sure the best way to distribute them as promos or as a reprint, though. Commander, for example, would be a terrible way to reprint FoW. Eternal players would eat up the product, causing it rise tremmendously in price before it was even released. FTV is simply not an effective way to do so, either, given that one usually wants a FoW playset, not a singleton, so it'd be hard to find a copy of FTV for it's normal 35-100$ if FoW was included. They really can't print it as a playset in a product, either, because collectors and speculators would just hoard that product immediately.
That's the problem with reprinting eternal staples.
On Twitter they said it "eats" the QPs when you enter. So when you enter a preliminary, you lose 15 QPs.
EDIT (Source):
https://twitter.com/Lee_Sharpe/status/280912404257333250
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I'll probably flesh out my Modern Robots deck and try to do well in Modern/Pauper.
I don't think I'll be able to grind to 30 QP and then do well enough to get additional FoWs. But getting 1 or 2 would be a start (15 points, then well enough in the qualifier)
I think it should start at the GP level, I think if it was a GP foil first that would get the ball rolling. Next, I think including it as a 2x or 3x in a dual deck is the way to go first. Gets a lot out there initially. You can't worry about hoarders/speculators because they are going to be there regardless on how it is released.
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True enough, if you have a T1 deck, you can reliably x-1 or better in events.
However it is by no definition easy.
Just pulling a random number out of my hat, but I am pretty certain not even 0.1% of the modo community will reach 15 qp's.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
They could perfectly include it with the new art in a Duel Deck, coupled with a Foil release in a special product (FTV for example). Duel Decks are produced in huge amounts, so price gouging would be next to impossible on them.
Of course, that would crash the market, but there is no Reserve List for FoW, Wasteland... and several other Legacy staples that they could perfectly reprint, but choose not to.
As for the difficulty and time spent to get 15 QP, keep in mind that the first week is a week a lot of people will have a week off and can grind as much as they want.
So it's not unreasonable to spend 8 hours a day or more in the first week. And also keep in mind that people can multibox. 2 Drafts at the same time is very doable for a lot of people.
Still, 15 QP is a solid investment.
I do hope this sparks the Legacy MTGO scene up again. I love Legacy! (except the rediculous prices)
This great banner was made by Topher
And there are also some amount of people that have more than 15 QPs at the end of each season that do not play the end of season MOCS for one reason or another.
Is 1,000 people a right estimate for the amount of people with at least 15 QP's at the end of each season?
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
It depends on the format how many people play. I know there was at least one sealed tournament that reached capacity at 1,028, so I would guess that 1,000 total is a little low.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Right, derp, 500 was the turnout for the Legacy MOCS.
So the question now is, what percentage is 2000 out of the number of people playing MTGO?
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
I know i've personally qualified for at least 3 mocs that I didn't play in last year due to other stuff going on that day so i'm pretty sure there's a huge number of people who just don't show.
That is not the maximum. It's an example.
The maximum is 6. You get 1 for 15 QP or more. You can technically play in all 4 preliminaries, and if you had 50QP, there's no reason not to play in at least one, because you'd stil lhave enough QPs to get into the champs. If you got QPs from that one you'd also have another FoW and you could play in at least 2 more. Going 5-1 in one and say 4-2 in another would give you 2 more, and the QPs needed to play in the final, where you need to go 4-2 for your 5th FoW.
Then you could top 64 the finals and end up with another.
6 Total.
Many people have ground out 50QPs in a season before.
There will be a LOT of Force of Will promos in the system
Signature courtesy of Rivenor and Miraculous Recovery
EDH Altered Cards by Galspanic (Seriously, this guy's awesome.)
My Pauper Cube
Tapped-Out Simulator
My Trade Thread
-Decks-
Commander:
GWR Rith, the Awakener RWG
U Kami of the Crescent Moon U (Flagship Deck)
BW Teysa, Orzhov Scion WB
Under Construction:
UBR Crosis, the Purger RBU
Cube:
WUBRGX Pauper XGRBUW
Tell that to my playmat !
That looks amazing. Where did you acquire?
Currently Playing:
Brewing for Rotation
And some EDH
<so I take it you're a garbage standard player then?>
Please don't troll other users. -TK
The reprint is much more badly needed on MTGO.
Paper, Force of Will isn't the big expense for Legacy, it's dual lands (and to a lesser extent Tarmogoyf and Wasteland but they are high on MTGO too). But in MTGO, dual lands are in much higher print (each one rare in two ME sets) than Force of Will (rare in only one ME set, with a firm promise made not to reprint it in a booster product).
A 40-50% drop in FoW's price on MTGO would make Legacy much more viable online. In doing so it would push up interest in other format staples like dual lands, both fetchlands, Wasteland and the like, probably increasing the total value of most players' and dealers' collections (except for those few that own four foil Force of Wills).
OTOH a paper 40-50% fall in Force's price would have little impact in Legacy's overall price as a format or its appeal.