I would sincerely like a foil deception for my EDH deck--I really love that art. Hopefully they won't be too expensive.
I'm a little surprised by the P3K cards, they seem a bit random.
The P3K cards are still useful in EDH and have some appeal, like I would like to have a loyal retainers for my ghave deck since I have a tendency to sac everything and anything I can to get ahead. So the eldrazi and ghave would be nice to reanimate with that guy.
I've never played with Diaochan but that would be because I'd never thought to...seems like a fun quirky card for multiplayer.
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the user formerly known as isopsycho86
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig Legacy RUBFaithless Dredge
thhis product is a total trainwreck. letting your most expensive product quadruple in price before release is a recipe for disastear
Rofl...thats the point! Low supply+rare unqiue reprints for one of the most popular formats that Wizards is cashing in on? This is exactlly what Apple does with each new IWhatever product. Low supply+high demand=more profits
Retainers will raise the price of this product much more than I'd like, and I'm not a fan of the card in general.
Spider and Diaochan I don't like because IMO this product should contain goodstuff. I think that you shouldn't need to build around cards in this. The other cards can be easily played in any deck.
I don't really care about the oversized cards, but I think that they picked decent generals to enlarge.
Rofl...thats the point! Low supply+rare unqiue reprints for one of the most popular formats that Wizards is cashing in on? This is exactlly what Apple does with each new IWhatever product. Low supply+high demand=more profits
Apple products have infinite supply (until the next model comes out obviously) and you can buy them for a standard price.
FTV and this commander's arsenal products are totally different.
I'm not exactly sure why wotc prints ftv and this in such small supply but it is NOT because of profits. If they printed twice as many copies of ftv's they'd still sell every single one.
Anyway, before I singlehandedly turn this into another "moaning about price gouging" thread, let's get back to the topic at hand.
I play a lot of multiplayer and cube, and a little EDH. These cards are pretty much in my slot, and even I'm skeptical on the price. Really, they'd need to throw another couple of really good reprints in here to make me consider it (like another couple of P3K cards... Imperial Seal? Imperial Recruiter? Please?). I understand the concept of this one, but really, it's looking more and more like it's marketed solely to the Spikes who want to bling up their Cubes and EDH decks, and will be out of the range (or care level) of everyone else.
I like that now we've seen the spoilers, people are actually splitting into fairly clear camps of "competitive" versus "casual" based on what cards they like and do not like. At the very least, I can learn a lot about someone's play style and whether or not they and I would fit together in a game.
I'm quite psyched, really. Diao Chan figuratively made me wet my pants. DAT ART. IN FOIL. *happiness sound*
Scroll Rack is a nice surprise. I don't use it in many of my decks, but it's nice to have it in shiny.
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
Man, this thread is making my head spin now. In one comment, someone will moan about how there is feel-bad includes and that they will cancel their pre-order (as if). In another, someone is agape at how much money got jampacked into this thing. My store says they are getting 4, but some say stores are getting 5. What is going on here? This product is a hot and pretty mess.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
The P3K cards are still useful in EDH and have some appeal, like I would like to have a loyal retainers for my ghave deck since I have a tendency to sac everything and anything I can to get ahead. So the eldrazi and ghave would be nice to reanimate with that guy.
I've never played with Diaochan but that would be because I'd never thought to...seems like a fun quirky card for multiplayer.
I like that now we've seen the spoilers, people are actually splitting into fairly clear camps of "competitive" versus "casual" based on what cards they like and do not like. At the very least, I can learn a lot about someone's play style and whether or not they and I would fit together in a game.
I'm quite psyched, really. Diao Chan figuratively made me wet my pants. DAT ART. IN FOIL. *happiness sound*
Scroll Rack is a nice surprise. I don't use it in many of my decks, but it's nice to have it in shiny.
Didn't see Scroll Rack in OP list. Was it confimed in?
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"De potentia juvenis somniabat, nunc de Mundo somniat..."
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
Rofl...thats the point! Low supply+rare unqiue reprints for one of the most popular formats that Wizards is cashing in on? This is exactlly what Apple does with each new IWhatever product. Low supply+high demand=more profits
The secondary market are the only ones making money off of the low supply. Wizards would have made more money if they had made more arsenals
If we operate under the assumption that WotC had to jam this in while still printing everything else and just couldn't extend the print run then we can assume they just couldn't produce enough more, at least not in any meaningful numbers, to change the secondary market. But yes, by the numbers WotC would have been better off making a crap load of these and cashing in on the demand
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the user formerly known as isopsycho86
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig Legacy RUBFaithless Dredge
I don't think YOU get it. Sure, WotC is making money on this product, we're not disputing that. They're making the like 50$ (or whatever it actually costs retailers to pick this up at) it costs for each box to be ordered and it will absolutely sell out. Retailers are making the 150-200$ markup as profit.
The issue is that WotC could actually make even more money and satisfy a lot more people had the print run not been as overly short as it was. Profit is determined by a supply / demand - you maximize the amount of money you can make when your supply exactly meets your demand. Too much supply, no one will buy it for the price you want to sell it at; too little supply and you're missing the opportunity to sell more to make more money. In this case, it's fair to say they'd have to print at least more than 5 times what they are printing now (say at the FtV level or greater) before they'd ever hit a scenario where a single copy would be sitting on shelves due to lack of demand.
Bottom line, by short printing it, they are missing the chance to make more customers happy and increase their overall profits, which completely goes against your statement.
Obviously WOTC definitely knows that, but there is also brand equity. Printing in limited supplies makes the products more valuable. And overall the brand increases value. There will be profits in the long term for sure.
These "reprints" are their way of cashing on the secondary market, but they are not doing a mass reprint as the cards will lose too much of their value.
They have to strike a balance in between, constantly supplying in demand cards, but always, always, making sure not eveyone gets them.
...except all of the Advanced level stores, which get 5 instead of 4.
So... Is it 2/4/5 or just 2/5? I'm 5th in line for one and my store says the first 4 are gobbled up bye bye cry cry sad nerd. Should I kick the doors down, or what?
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
And after almost 250 pages, all this time speculating...this thing is a huge waste of time.
Wizards had a great opportunity here and they squandered it. Sure there are some decent reprints, and I'm sure there are people there genuinely excited for some of what this contains (even the P3K stuff, which adds to the value, sure, but I'd never play either of them in the format).
There's only a couple of cards I'd argue as staples. Far too many cards in this are incredibly new too, especially the majority of the legendaries.
Again the only things I would personally want out of this are an oversized Grimgrin, I guess the oversized Karn, the foil command tower, the foil new art decree of pain (even though I just cut that from my deck), and the life counter.
I wouldn't pay $75 for that and stuff that likely would just end up sitting around or end up maybe getting sold. But it's gonna be impossible to get these at that price anyways. The several hundred dollar price tags on eBay are ridiculous.
To counter all the Negative Nancys, I frankly think it's about perfect. It's a wide variety of cards that will see play in all kinds of decks, and the never-before-foil generals from the Commander precons and PC2 are some of the most popular in the format.
While I'm not particularly pleased with the limited availability... c'est la vie.
Off course not my friend I started to play magic on M11, from all the product relases I have seen in my time playing, this is the worst and most expensive.
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The P3K cards are still useful in EDH and have some appeal, like I would like to have a loyal retainers for my ghave deck since I have a tendency to sac everything and anything I can to get ahead. So the eldrazi and ghave would be nice to reanimate with that guy.
I've never played with Diaochan but that would be because I'd never thought to...seems like a fun quirky card for multiplayer.
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig
Legacy
RUBFaithless Dredge
Rofl...thats the point! Low supply+rare unqiue reprints for one of the most popular formats that Wizards is cashing in on? This is exactlly what Apple does with each new IWhatever product. Low supply+high demand=more profits
Does nobody get this on this forum?
Dragonlair Spider...thats gross who even plays that...
Retainers will raise the price of this product much more than I'd like, and I'm not a fan of the card in general.
Spider and Diaochan I don't like because IMO this product should contain goodstuff. I think that you shouldn't need to build around cards in this. The other cards can be easily played in any deck.
I don't really care about the oversized cards, but I think that they picked decent generals to enlarge.
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
Total garbage, aside from Sylvan Library and Rhystic Study with new art. Wouldn't even pay MSRP for these...
To think that some folks who were eager to get extra bling cards paid up to 400$ for this just made my day!
Apple products have infinite supply (until the next model comes out obviously) and you can buy them for a standard price.
FTV and this commander's arsenal products are totally different.
I'm not exactly sure why wotc prints ftv and this in such small supply but it is NOT because of profits. If they printed twice as many copies of ftv's they'd still sell every single one.
If he's stuck in Australia like I am, good luck. The biggest gaming chain in Australia is currently charging another $20 on top of that, even.
That's why I got mine from the US via a third party, and paid $118 (after shipping)!
Anyway, before I singlehandedly turn this into another "moaning about price gouging" thread, let's get back to the topic at hand.
I play a lot of multiplayer and cube, and a little EDH. These cards are pretty much in my slot, and even I'm skeptical on the price. Really, they'd need to throw another couple of really good reprints in here to make me consider it (like another couple of P3K cards... Imperial Seal? Imperial Recruiter? Please?). I understand the concept of this one, but really, it's looking more and more like it's marketed solely to the Spikes who want to bling up their Cubes and EDH decks, and will be out of the range (or care level) of everyone else.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
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I'm quite psyched, really. Diao Chan figuratively made me wet my pants. DAT ART. IN FOIL. *happiness sound*
Scroll Rack is a nice surprise. I don't use it in many of my decks, but it's nice to have it in shiny.
Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
Feel free to tell me yours!
Eldrazi get shuffled in, silly.
Loyal Retainers is extremely capable of reanimating an eldrazi legend.
It is limited to your turn before you attack but it is not limited to sorcery-speed.
Retainers can be activated at instant speed, works really well with saccing eldrazi and the like...reanimate with the trigger on the stack
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig
Legacy
RUBFaithless Dredge
Didn't see Scroll Rack in OP list. Was it confimed in?
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig
Legacy
RUBFaithless Dredge
Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
The secondary market are the only ones making money off of the low supply. Wizards would have made more money if they had made more arsenals
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
If we operate under the assumption that WotC had to jam this in while still printing everything else and just couldn't extend the print run then we can assume they just couldn't produce enough more, at least not in any meaningful numbers, to change the secondary market. But yes, by the numbers WotC would have been better off making a crap load of these and cashing in on the demand
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig
Legacy
RUBFaithless Dredge
Cheers
Obviously WOTC definitely knows that, but there is also brand equity. Printing in limited supplies makes the products more valuable. And overall the brand increases value. There will be profits in the long term for sure.
These "reprints" are their way of cashing on the secondary market, but they are not doing a mass reprint as the cards will lose too much of their value.
They have to strike a balance in between, constantly supplying in demand cards, but always, always, making sure not eveyone gets them.
...except all of the Advanced level stores, which get 5 instead of 4.
EVOLVE ALL THE THINGS!!!
So... Is it 2/4/5 or just 2/5? I'm 5th in line for one and my store says the first 4 are gobbled up bye bye cry cry sad nerd. Should I kick the doors down, or what?
Feel free to tell me yours!
As for how I feel about the exploitative store owners that were selling them, well, that's another story for another day.
Wizards had a great opportunity here and they squandered it. Sure there are some decent reprints, and I'm sure there are people there genuinely excited for some of what this contains (even the P3K stuff, which adds to the value, sure, but I'd never play either of them in the format).
There's only a couple of cards I'd argue as staples. Far too many cards in this are incredibly new too, especially the majority of the legendaries.
Again the only things I would personally want out of this are an oversized Grimgrin, I guess the oversized Karn, the foil command tower, the foil new art decree of pain (even though I just cut that from my deck), and the life counter.
I wouldn't pay $75 for that and stuff that likely would just end up sitting around or end up maybe getting sold. But it's gonna be impossible to get these at that price anyways. The several hundred dollar price tags on eBay are ridiculous.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
While I'm not particularly pleased with the limited availability... c'est la vie.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Off course not my friend I started to play magic on M11, from all the product relases I have seen in my time playing, this is the worst and most expensive.
WUBRGProgenitusWUBRG
URGAnimar Soul of ElementsURG
UBGThe MiemoplasmUBG