no can't be countered cycle

  • #1
    From Maro's article Card Day's Night, he confirms that the cycle of uncounterable spells and creatures will not continue in Gatecrash


    some cycles carry over and some do not. The "can't be countered" cycle is one that does not. It is merely a single cycle in Return to Ravnica. Many of the other cycles, such as the five I talked about last week (the charms, the guildmages, the guildgates, the "shocklands," and the guild leaders), will be picked up in Gatecrash.


    this probably could have gone into a GTC known info thread, but no one has started one yet
  • #2
    Good. Supreme Verdict and Abrupt Decay were the only ones that were needed to keep Delver in check.
    The only good EDH is the kind with Smokestack.
  • #3
    That's a really strange, stupid decision, IMO.

    I *hate* partial cycles, especially when they're as color-random as this!
    (see Torment)


    Thanks, WotC- now I won't have cool (U/B)(G/U)(W/B)(W/R) uncounterables :p
    Mad Slant Mad
    Last edited by Empathogen: 9/24/2012 5:28:19 PM

    Azorius
    SimicSimic
    Orzhov
    Reprint Stasis!
    Control needs more love.
    Dimir

    EDH:

    :simic:Momir Vig, Simic Visionary:simic:
    :izzet:Melek, Izzet Paragon:izzet:
    :dimir:Oona, Queen of the Fae:dimir:
    :azorius:Bruna, Light of Alabaster:azorius:
    :boros:Gisela, Blade of Goldnight:boros:
    :golgari:Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord:golgari:
    :dimir:Sen Triplets:orzhov:
    :simic:The Mimeoplasm:dimir:
    WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
  • #4
    I think it's a good idea not to continue cycles between the two sets; we want to still have some unpredictability between RTR and GTC!:)
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  • #5
    Meh, this seems kind of random. I'm not a big fan of the uncounterable thing in the first place, but I was excited to see what the Simic spell was going to be...
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  • #6
    Maybe we´re getting another good cycle in its place? Maybe cards that have triggered abilities when played , like the eldrazi bosses =P
  • #7
    That was a pretty weak cycle (from a design perspective, the cards are obviously powerful) I mean, it's not as if counters are gonna be a thing anymore... Rolleyes

    There are already so many cycles that will carry on to Gatecrash (guildleaders, shocklands, keyrunes, charms, guildmages...) We need more unique stuff too!
    Elspeth is dead. Long live Elspeth.
  • #8
    Well, we don't know if counters will be a thing or not. Remember, there are still two other blue guilds (Simic and Dimir). While I doubt Simic will get any, one should not dismiss the possibility of Dimir having counterspells in GTC. Like Maro says, you can't base your conclusions about the block on one set, especially when it's the only set that's been released so far. You just can't look at RTR alone and go "OMG wizards y u punish blue?"
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  • #9
    Perhaps they'll continue the 10 card cycle, just not as uncounterable-focused as before. 4 uncounterables, 3 undiscardables, 3 indestructibles? Something like that maybe.

    B/G mana B/G mana R/G mana B/G mana B/G mana B/G mana R/G mana B/G mana B/G mana B/G mana W/G mana B/G mana B/G mana B/G mana R/G mana B/G mana B/G mana B/G mana R/G mana B/G mana B/G mana
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  • #10
    Well I for one am glad they are not forcing this cycle to 10 cards over 2 sets.

    Also those that complain about this being a "random cycle" now based on color selection. The only reason the enemy colored and alllied colored things feel right is because WotC has been beating us over the head with it for nearly 2 decades.

    I mean if they didn't put such a huge emphasis on colors hating other colors no 2 color combination would be favored over another. In Ravnica enemy and allied colors mean absolutely nothing UG is as logical in Ravnica as RG.
    Last edited by Monopoman: 9/24/2012 6:07:35 PM

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  • #11
    I am very disappointed. The only "uncounterable" that mattered to me for being uncounterable outside of Abrupt Decay was going to be whatever Dimir got. I really was hoping for something eternally relevant and uncounterable in U/B, most optimally as a gift to Storm.

    I simply see no reason people should cry if they did so. It was pathetic enough people were over the RTR ones, and rather funny that people are acting like their backs are broken by the ones that already exist.

    Wizards wants control (via countermagic) to become practically dead, it seems. Is this seriously news to everyone? They claimed Mana Leak was unfair and unfun, but Delver was fine. If it's turning creatures sideways, it's what they want. Welcome to Standard everyone! Hence why I don't play bad formats.
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  • #12
    Mono, that wasn't really my point.
    Sure, any color pair makes sense on Ravnica;
    My complaint is that this "cycle" is just the five color pairs in RtR,
    which have no real connection other than being chosen for RtR.

    I'll admit I have an unrelenting desire for symmetry,
    and considering how much of a U player I am, it's an odd complaint from me,
    but I just like full cycles.
    This is not only an incomplete cycle, it's not even all-ally or all-enemy colors;
    It's just totally random.

    It's not exactly the end of the world, it just irritates me.
    Just look up the number of possible UG Commanders vs. BG.

    Is it so wrong to want some consistency so certain Guilds don't get shafted?

    Azorius
    SimicSimic
    Orzhov
    Reprint Stasis!
    Control needs more love.
    Dimir

    EDH:

    :simic:Momir Vig, Simic Visionary:simic:
    :izzet:Melek, Izzet Paragon:izzet:
    :dimir:Oona, Queen of the Fae:dimir:
    :azorius:Bruna, Light of Alabaster:azorius:
    :boros:Gisela, Blade of Goldnight:boros:
    :golgari:Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord:golgari:
    :dimir:Sen Triplets:orzhov:
    :simic:The Mimeoplasm:dimir:
    WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
  • #13
    Quote from empathogen

    It's not exactly the end of the world, it just irritates me.
    Just look up the number of possible UG Commanders vs. BG.

    Is it so wrong to want some consistency so certain Guilds don't get shafted?


    Well if you demand symmetry in this game you will surely be quite upset, especially with something like # of legendary creatures in 2 color combinations.

    They are designing a game that focuses on truly competitive formats barring a few cards here or there. I am sure yearly Commander releases will give more options to UG commanders as time goes on, but I doubt they have a guy on staff whose only job is to help ensure parity of everything.

    Not getting one of these cards does not ensure that "guild get's shafted". How do we know what card for each guild will take that slot in GTC?

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  • #14
    Kinda lame in my opinion. 5 guilds get the "Can't be countered." touch, the other 5 get the finger. They really could do 5 more and I doubt we'd see much complaint.
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  • #15
    I find this very disappointing. I just wonder what Wotc would do for the other 5 guilds to baklance them though.
  • #16
    Quote from thetrueshyguy
    Kinda lame in my opinion. 5 guilds get the "Can't be countered." touch, the other 5 get the finger. They really could do 5 more and I doubt we'd see much complaint.


    Again they will probably have a different cycle of 5 in that same slot that may or may not be more powerful. Not to mention "can't be countered", isn't as cool as it used to be.

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  • #17
    I hope the hybrid one drop cycle is continued; I want me some Boros hyper-aggro one drops XD


  • #18
    Quote from ~Aura~
    I hope the hybrid one drop cycle is continued; I want me some Boros hyper-aggro one drops XD


    God, if they deny me another (G/U) one-drop,
    I will rage!

    This is part of the problem-
    If they discontinue one cycle, might they do the same with others?

    We're definitely getting lands and keyrunes, etc.
    But I sincerely hope they continue all the Hybrid cycles-
    They could give me a second Christmas by printing two (G/U) one-drop creatures,
    like what Izzet got this time...

    Are you listening, Wizards?!
    Please don't **** everything up in the set that has my four favorite Guilds :p

    Azorius
    SimicSimic
    Orzhov
    Reprint Stasis!
    Control needs more love.
    Dimir

    EDH:

    :simic:Momir Vig, Simic Visionary:simic:
    :izzet:Melek, Izzet Paragon:izzet:
    :dimir:Oona, Queen of the Fae:dimir:
    :azorius:Bruna, Light of Alabaster:azorius:
    :boros:Gisela, Blade of Goldnight:boros:
    :golgari:Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord:golgari:
    :dimir:Sen Triplets:orzhov:
    :simic:The Mimeoplasm:dimir:
    WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
  • #19
    Quote from thetrueshyguy
    Kinda lame in my opinion. 5 guilds get the "Can't be countered." touch, the other 5 get the finger. They really could do 5 more and I doubt we'd see much complaint.


    To be fair, it's better than if they completed the cycle with bad cards. The Rakdos and Izzet ones are pretty weak already.

    How much countermagic hate do we need anyway? Everyone has access to Cavern of Souls now.
    Last edited by makochman: 9/24/2012 6:42:57 PM
  • #20
    Quote from makochman
    To be fair, it's better than if they completed the cycle with bad cards. The Rakdos and Izzet ones are pretty weak already.


    Huh?! Counterflux is quite good.
    Different strokes, I suppose,
    but it's going into every (U/R) deck I make.

    I'd rather have a complete cycle with some bad cards than a completely random incomplete "cycle".

    Azorius
    SimicSimic
    Orzhov
    Reprint Stasis!
    Control needs more love.
    Dimir

    EDH:

    :simic:Momir Vig, Simic Visionary:simic:
    :izzet:Melek, Izzet Paragon:izzet:
    :dimir:Oona, Queen of the Fae:dimir:
    :azorius:Bruna, Light of Alabaster:azorius:
    :boros:Gisela, Blade of Goldnight:boros:
    :golgari:Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord:golgari:
    :dimir:Sen Triplets:orzhov:
    :simic:The Mimeoplasm:dimir:
    WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
  • #21
    they'll probably do a cycle in which the 5 gtc guilds get cards and the rtf guilds are excluded. duh.
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  • #22
    Quote from Lord Void
    Wizards wants control (via countermagic) to become practically dead, it seems. Is this seriously news to everyone? They claimed Mana Leak was unfair and unfun, but Delver was fine. If it's turning creatures sideways, it's what they want. Welcome to Standard everyone! Hence why I don't play bad formats.


    Moar whine.

    Most of the can't be countered cycle doesn't even hurt control. Supreme Verdict helps it, Abrupt Decay, Slaughter Games, and Counterflux don't really hurt it, and Smiter is manageable.

    Counterspells aren't the only way to control, people.
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  • #23
    I think this kind of sucks. If you're going to stretch in a big way to make Abrupt Decay and Supreme Verdict acceptable then you may as well stretch for the other colours. Since 'uncounterable' clearly only has to exist in one colour:

    Orzhov - Black will do anything to win.
    Boros - Red doesn't play by anyone's rules. Counterspells stop Red from doing what it likes - that isn't going to work this time.
    Simic - See Azorius / Golgari reasoning. Its weak, but hey, they used it already right?!
    Gruul - See Boros.
    Dimir - See Orzhov.

    See, that wasnt that difficult.

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  • #24
    Quote from Axelle Blitzer
    Moar whine.


    I love when people post this. I will quite often as a joke to people who do frequently, simply because it shows you don't actually have a viable argument. I am not a control player. I merely think it's rather stupid...as do numerous other people on here voicing their opinions. How about you tell 60% of the posters here to "whine more?"

    Quote from Axelle Blitzer
    Most of the can't be countered cycle doesn't even hurt control. Supreme Verdict helps it, Abrupt Decay, Slaughter Games, and Counterflux don't really hurt it, and Smiter is manageable.


    You clearly do not read my posts, or do not understand what "eternally relevant" means. Once again, I do not play bad formats. I enjoyed the uncounterable cycle, and not just for being uncounterable. I do not play standard. Reading is tech. Just because you do not play the same formats that I do is no reason for you to say that such cards "do not hurt control." Stop talking out of your ass about things you very clearly do not know, or are simply too lazy to bother to comprehend. This information coming to light is annoying because, if nothing else, of the guild-wide inconsistency of it with no flavor reasoning. That is, there is no reason five of the guilds get an uncounterable cycle, and the other do not. Not for flavor reasons, nor design, nor any others that I can think of.

    Quote from Axelle Blitzer
    Counterspells aren't the only way to control, people.


    Once again, this is why I posted the words, very clearly; VIA COUNTERMAGIC. Once again, reading is tech.

    Next time you post, try to think a little bit, or at least read the post you are replying to. Failure to do so simply makes you like look an imbecile, or someone who lacks the comprehension to form the argument they are attempting to start. Please consider this in the future; it may help you immensely.
    Last edited by Lord Void: 9/24/2012 7:29:17 PM
    Quote from Mockingbird
    While Blue is a color that should receive a lot of spite, the color that I hate the most is Dredge.


    MtGS; the only forum I know of where defending yourself with facts leads to being called a whiner by those who know nothing of Magic/logic. The site is good for spoilers and nothing more, mostly due to lack of a competent player base, and abundance of idiots who enjoy starting arguments.
  • #25
    This was pretty obvious since the cycle first became known. A BW uncounterable spell is just not something you can do.
    Last edited by Sliver Lord: 9/24/2012 7:50:22 PM
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