The reason is that wizards said so. And thats all that matters. They own this game not the fans, and not you.
Good companies do not base their practices off of said policies. Good companies realize that fans/consumers pay their expenses and paychecks. I am not saying that Wizards is a bad company, nor that they are not listening to their players, because that would be false. I am, however, saying that your logic is piss-poor, and that if you ran a company, that much would show.
Do you understand the concept of flavor? How about symmetry? Your "argument" makes it seem like you simply take what is given to you like a blind fool. I am not saying that you are wrong in your idea that only what Wizards says matters, but unfortunately in this situation saying such a thing makes you look rather like you do not understand many of the concepts that Wizards tries to please their customer base with. If you cannot offer a better argument than this, you simply don't have one.
This is not a subject I fervently oppose, but the appalling ignorance of the people on this forum makes me cringe with the thought that I very well could have been born with a mind set to such similar limits; exceedingly strict ones.
We wouldn't want counterspells to become completely obsolete, would we?
That would obviate the whole point of having spells that can't be countered.
I find the Azorious uncounterable quite strange, personally. What need does a BLUE mage have of an uncounterable spell? It's nice to have, sure, but wasn't part of the point of playing blue having one's own counterspells to protect critical spells, a sweeper for example?
I'd much rather see uncounterable mixed with non-blue colors.
I understand that they're trying to give the format the means to deal with this Delver creature that they (for unfathomable reasons) printed. I'm not complaining about Delver (I play Legacy where it doesn't dominate to the same extent, and I probably wouldn't care even if I DID play standard anyhow).
Would have been nice to get some more uncounterables though. I like the idea.
A 3 mana hard counter is pretty bad. The overload clause is hardly ever relevant, and will most likely only catch a bad player off guard anyways, since most people very rarely (if ever) throw multiple instants on the stack anyways (especially in standard). It's effect also just does not compare to an uncounterable smother for any (non-land?) permanent, or an uncounterable wrath of god...it's just very, very average.
This is a pretty good point, but it also reveals something that (I think!) is really great news.. creating incentives to make elaborate stacks seems like a pretty neat area for design space.
Maybe Flash creatures with ETB bonuses for each creature spell on the stack? Obviously the idea is quite fetal at this point.. just a thought!
A 3 mana hard counter is pretty bad. The overload clause is hardly ever relevant, and will most likely only catch a bad player off guard anyways, since most people very rarely (if ever) throw multiple instants on the stack anyways (especially in standard). It's effect also just does not compare to an uncounterable smother for any (non-land?) permanent, or an uncounterable wrath of god...it's just very, very average.
the overload clause makes it an UNCOUNTERABLE answer to storm. Having played sacland tendrils in legacy, I'd love an uncounterable answer to flusterstorm in a meta where everyone is playing countertop
This is a pretty good point, but it also reveals something that (I think!) is really great news.. creating incentives to make elaborate stacks seems like a pretty neat area for design space.
Maybe Flash creatures with ETB bonuses for each creature spell on the stack? Obviously the idea is quite fetal at this point.. just a thought!
LOVE IT.
Maybe make it any spell so you you can do tricksy things.
If the Simic Keyword were something like, say,
"Consume X: This creature has Flash, and ETB with X +1/+1 counters,
where X is the number of spells on the stack (including this one),"
I'd be all over it.
They could even make a new Mystic Snake/Draining Whelk type thing that gets "Consume" or whatever,
which I would totally eat up if it doesn't cost too much to cast
Anyway, this is getting a bit off-topic,
but that Consuming Mystic Snake would make for a really awesome Simic uncounterable
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
its amazing on how many people dont read the developement articles to explain how these cycles or what not are not going to continue. the logic for the cant be counter is explained like this. there are three colors that cannot be countered can appear on cards. red, green, and blue. counterflux is alright because it red. and its a spell. so its legit. its also blue and a spell. so its double legit. surprime verdict. is blue. blue gets an uncounterable spell once in a blue moon. last time it used it was darksteel with Lastword. green white elephant man is okay cause its green. green gets uncounterble creatures. the rakdos uncounterble is okay cause its a red spell. the only card that really had to stretch was abrupt decay. cause its not a dude. it was a pushed cycle by development. MaRo pushed the charm cycle. the thing about ravinca block it was designed really weird. first. Rtr was a set by itself. its drafted by itself. gatecrash will be drafted by itself. and when sinker hits. all three have to mesh. so in reality what we are looking for is when the 3rd set releases. then we will have all the pieces. so if you look at it from a top down view. its not a block its a set. a reallly big set.
How does this in any way translate into an uncounterable spell?
Even if we were to follow this logic, does this mean that black gets access to every single effect in the game now?
Well black was originally sold as being able to do things it normally couldn't by making a greater sacrifice than the color it normally belongs to. This hasn't really ever entered design space but it is extremely flavorful. I don't see an issue with giving black things it doesn't normally receive if there is an additional payment of sorts.
Reactive parasitism was just as horrible a cycle now as it was a mechanic in split second- moreso if anything, with the even more limited scope. Maybe its necessary for metagame checks and balances in small slot usage, but 5 was ridiculous.
Anyway, for an incomplete cycle remember that GTC will bring incomplete cycles of its own no doubt, a complement to this tragedy, hopefully not as so. Like the mega-mega cycle, there is often better space for design without perfect symmetry. Some lopsidedness is a good thing
In the original Ravnica block, all the cycles that were begun in the first set were completed in the following sets. It was what people expected, after all, but it did lead to increased clutter and predictability. MaRo has commented on this in the past.
This time around the Wizards have made a conscious design decision not to continue all of RtR cycles. If you'd read MaRo's design articles on this, you wouldn't be surprised.
And think of the upside: There's gonna be *new* cycles in Gatecrash. Cycles there would scarce be room for were it otherwise. If they didn't do this, Gatecrash would seem a bit boring once it rolls around. Sure it's nice and exciting to look at an existing cycle and speculate on how it's finished but there's still plenty cycles for that.
As for the uncounterable cycle being one of the discontinued ones, the most recent article implies that if they'd felt compelled to finish all cycles, this one would probably not have seen the light of day. It could exist only by the happy coincidence that the color wheel didn't have to be broken (only slightly stretched) to fit the effect on RtR's guild color combinations.
To the people who complain that there's no reason for this, that it's so random: I suggest you read MaRo's design articles more regularly. You might not agree with the reasoning, but there's always a reason for big design decisions.
I won't try to pretend that I understand WotC R&D but he does have a cogent argument as to the Orzhov, chiefly, not having an uncounterable spell; however, I do feel like rules could be broken or the borders pushed to accommodate one cycle (or so-called guild cycle, even if there's not that much that shouts that they're guild cards other than the colors of the card).
I too don't like the inequality in 5 colors, somewhat arbitrarily chosen, having uncounterable cards in a cycle but there's not much that can be done. We'll see what we get in time.
All I want is another card like Cytoshape in the symic and I'll be happy. that was one of the silliest and most fun cards I have ever played with, besides wild ricochet
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
My complaint is that this "cycle" is just the five color pairs in RtR,
which have no real connection other than being chosen for RtR.
Sorry, but this one bugs me. You're wildly contradicting yourself within the same sentence. The reason that they're those chosen color pairs is BECAUSE they're in Return to Ravnica. Their connection is that they're in Return to Ravnica.
If a policeman is investigating a series of deaths and comes to the conclusion that all the dead have nothing in common except that they attended a banquet last Friday night and ordered the chicken, guess what? That's the connection. You'd be a (sub-par) policeman to ignore it.
If Gatecrash got the uncounterable cycle, it would seem just as arbitrary. Probably more so, given that Orzhov has no business having an uncounterable spell.
Bigger picture, on topic stuff: Besides, do we really need 10 uncounterable spells in standard? 5 is a whole lot, but each uncounterable spell would see diminishing returns. Shooting counterspells in the gut 10 times isn't necessary when 5 shots will do. Plus, there would be a few 3 color combinations that would get access to at least two very playable uncounterable spells, if not 3. I don't want to play a deck with Abrupt Decay, Loxodon Smiter, AND a theoretical 4 mana uncounterable Vindicate. As it stands, you'd have to play a particular 3 color combo to get access to two.
The same exact thing happened in Shadowmoor/Eventide too remember? So I'm not surprised at all.
Shadowmoor/Eventide together had all 10 combinations like Ravnica, all used the avatars, all had similar 1 drops and many similar cycles, etc etc. Yet only Eventide used cycles of Hatchlings, Hedge-mages, Mimics, etc and only Shadowmoor had cycles of Duos, Hideaways, Witches, etc.
In Ravnica, we'll keep the cycles of Guild leaders, shocklands, gates, guildmages, keyrunes and all may have a cycle of champions, but I can see everything else drop (maybe charms could? not sure).
I think I remember someone saying like a "When you cast X spell..." Maybe all the next 5 cards are going to be creatures, as opposed to this cycle being all non-creatures
I think I remember someone saying like a "When you cast X spell..." Maybe all the next 5 cards are going to be creatures, as opposed to this cycle being all non-creatures
You mean like how Loxodon Smiter is a non-creature....?
I will be very upset if the replacement cycle (if there is one) is all creatures. I am very tired of Wizards pushing the "turn me sideways" strategies, especially in Dimir, a rather non-creature based guild, color combination, as well as my personal favorite that I have high hopes for.
The same exact thing happened in Shadowmoor/Eventide too remember? So I'm not surprised at all.
Shadowmoor/Eventide together had all 10 combinations like Ravnica, all used the avatars, all had similar 1 drops and many similar cycles, etc etc. Yet only Eventide used cycles of Hatchlings, Hedge-mages, Mimics, etc and only Shadowmoor had cycles of Duos, Hideaways, Witches, etc.
In Ravnica, we'll keep the cycles of Guild leaders, shocklands, gates, guildmages, keyrunes and all may have a cycle of champions, but I can see everything else drop (maybe charms could? not sure).
but they were 'complete' cycles, weren't they? They were accounted for in all color combinations that made sense
(Hedge-Mages were in enemy color pairs, so were the mimics and hatchlings, witches were allied-colored. Hideaways were accounted for in each color, etc)
RtR had 3 allied color guilds and 2 enemy colored guilds, hence the general discontentment here. I don't mind that there aren't going to be any, although I'd have loved to see Gruul get a sick beater that couldn't be countered
but they were 'complete' cycles, weren't they? They were accounted for in all color combinations that made sense
(Hedge-Mages were in enemy color pairs, so were the mimics and hatchlings, witches were allied-colored. Hideaways were accounted for in each color, etc)
RtR had 3 allied color guilds and 2 enemy colored guilds, hence the general discontentment here. I don't mind that there aren't going to be any, although I'd have loved to see Gruul get a sick beater that couldn't be countered
Kind of. There were 10 2-color combinations and some cycles were only for enemy pairs and some were for friendly pairs. I don't really think their effects made sense to not have them in the other 5 color combinations though.
The point I was trying to make though, is one set had a cycle for its 5 2-color combinations, and the next set could ignore it and have its own cycles for its separate 5 2-color combinations. Yet some cycles went through all 10 2-color combinations.
Good companies do not base their practices off of said policies. Good companies realize that fans/consumers pay their expenses and paychecks. I am not saying that Wizards is a bad company, nor that they are not listening to their players, because that would be false. I am, however, saying that your logic is piss-poor, and that if you ran a company, that much would show.
Do you understand the concept of flavor? How about symmetry? Your "argument" makes it seem like you simply take what is given to you like a blind fool. I am not saying that you are wrong in your idea that only what Wizards says matters, but unfortunately in this situation saying such a thing makes you look rather like you do not understand many of the concepts that Wizards tries to please their customer base with. If you cannot offer a better argument than this, you simply don't have one.
This is not a subject I fervently oppose, but the appalling ignorance of the people on this forum makes me cringe with the thought that I very well could have been born with a mind set to such similar limits; exceedingly strict ones.
That would obviate the whole point of having spells that can't be countered.
I find the Azorious uncounterable quite strange, personally. What need does a BLUE mage have of an uncounterable spell? It's nice to have, sure, but wasn't part of the point of playing blue having one's own counterspells to protect critical spells, a sweeper for example?
I'd much rather see uncounterable mixed with non-blue colors.
I understand that they're trying to give the format the means to deal with this Delver creature that they (for unfathomable reasons) printed. I'm not complaining about Delver (I play Legacy where it doesn't dominate to the same extent, and I probably wouldn't care even if I DID play standard anyhow).
Would have been nice to get some more uncounterables though. I like the idea.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
This is a pretty good point, but it also reveals something that (I think!) is really great news.. creating incentives to make elaborate stacks seems like a pretty neat area for design space.
Maybe Flash creatures with ETB bonuses for each creature spell on the stack? Obviously the idea is quite fetal at this point.. just a thought!
the overload clause makes it an UNCOUNTERABLE answer to storm. Having played sacland tendrils in legacy, I'd love an uncounterable answer to flusterstorm in a meta where everyone is playing countertop
LOVE IT.
Maybe make it any spell so you you can do tricksy things.
If the Simic Keyword were something like, say,
"Consume X: This creature has Flash, and ETB with X +1/+1 counters,
where X is the number of spells on the stack (including this one),"
I'd be all over it.
They could even make a new Mystic Snake/Draining Whelk type thing that gets "Consume" or whatever,
which I would totally eat up if it doesn't cost too much to cast
Anyway, this is getting a bit off-topic,
but that Consuming Mystic Snake would make for a really awesome Simic uncounterable
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."
Rotation is going to keep Delver in check more than those 2 cards.
How does this in any way translate into an uncounterable spell?
Even if we were to follow this logic, does this mean that black gets access to every single effect in the game now?
Well black was originally sold as being able to do things it normally couldn't by making a greater sacrifice than the color it normally belongs to. This hasn't really ever entered design space but it is extremely flavorful. I don't see an issue with giving black things it doesn't normally receive if there is an additional payment of sorts.
http://magiclampoon.com/blog/2011/02/19/wizards-realizes-that-any-color-can-be-justified-as-doing-anything-part-2/
Standard: W/R Aggro
Anyway, for an incomplete cycle remember that GTC will bring incomplete cycles of its own no doubt, a complement to this tragedy, hopefully not as so. Like the mega-mega cycle, there is often better space for design without perfect symmetry. Some lopsidedness is a good thing
My whole post was a joke. Sorry for the confusion. Another poster linked to the article I was referring to. Enjoy!
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This time around the Wizards have made a conscious design decision not to continue all of RtR cycles. If you'd read MaRo's design articles on this, you wouldn't be surprised.
And think of the upside: There's gonna be *new* cycles in Gatecrash. Cycles there would scarce be room for were it otherwise. If they didn't do this, Gatecrash would seem a bit boring once it rolls around. Sure it's nice and exciting to look at an existing cycle and speculate on how it's finished but there's still plenty cycles for that.
As for the uncounterable cycle being one of the discontinued ones, the most recent article implies that if they'd felt compelled to finish all cycles, this one would probably not have seen the light of day. It could exist only by the happy coincidence that the color wheel didn't have to be broken (only slightly stretched) to fit the effect on RtR's guild color combinations.
To the people who complain that there's no reason for this, that it's so random: I suggest you read MaRo's design articles more regularly. You might not agree with the reasoning, but there's always a reason for big design decisions.
I too don't like the inequality in 5 colors, somewhat arbitrarily chosen, having uncounterable cards in a cycle but there's not much that can be done. We'll see what we get in time.
Sorry, but this one bugs me. You're wildly contradicting yourself within the same sentence. The reason that they're those chosen color pairs is BECAUSE they're in Return to Ravnica. Their connection is that they're in Return to Ravnica.
If a policeman is investigating a series of deaths and comes to the conclusion that all the dead have nothing in common except that they attended a banquet last Friday night and ordered the chicken, guess what? That's the connection. You'd be a (sub-par) policeman to ignore it.
If Gatecrash got the uncounterable cycle, it would seem just as arbitrary. Probably more so, given that Orzhov has no business having an uncounterable spell.
Bigger picture, on topic stuff: Besides, do we really need 10 uncounterable spells in standard? 5 is a whole lot, but each uncounterable spell would see diminishing returns. Shooting counterspells in the gut 10 times isn't necessary when 5 shots will do. Plus, there would be a few 3 color combinations that would get access to at least two very playable uncounterable spells, if not 3. I don't want to play a deck with Abrupt Decay, Loxodon Smiter, AND a theoretical 4 mana uncounterable Vindicate. As it stands, you'd have to play a particular 3 color combo to get access to two.
Shadowmoor/Eventide together had all 10 combinations like Ravnica, all used the avatars, all had similar 1 drops and many similar cycles, etc etc. Yet only Eventide used cycles of Hatchlings, Hedge-mages, Mimics, etc and only Shadowmoor had cycles of Duos, Hideaways, Witches, etc.
In Ravnica, we'll keep the cycles of Guild leaders, shocklands, gates, guildmages, keyrunes and all may have a cycle of champions, but I can see everything else drop (maybe charms could? not sure).
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You mean like how Loxodon Smiter is a non-creature....?
I will be very upset if the replacement cycle (if there is one) is all creatures. I am very tired of Wizards pushing the "turn me sideways" strategies, especially in Dimir, a rather non-creature based guild, color combination, as well as my personal favorite that I have high hopes for.
but they were 'complete' cycles, weren't they? They were accounted for in all color combinations that made sense
(Hedge-Mages were in enemy color pairs, so were the mimics and hatchlings, witches were allied-colored. Hideaways were accounted for in each color, etc)
RtR had 3 allied color guilds and 2 enemy colored guilds, hence the general discontentment here. I don't mind that there aren't going to be any, although I'd have loved to see Gruul get a sick beater that couldn't be countered
Kind of. There were 10 2-color combinations and some cycles were only for enemy pairs and some were for friendly pairs. I don't really think their effects made sense to not have them in the other 5 color combinations though.
The point I was trying to make though, is one set had a cycle for its 5 2-color combinations, and the next set could ignore it and have its own cycles for its separate 5 2-color combinations. Yet some cycles went through all 10 2-color combinations.
RoblinTheGoblin's Pro M15 Template:
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