If it is good enough to see play, it's a good card. Not being as good as another card does not mean a card is not good. It simply means there are better cards. Shock is not better than Lightning Bolt, but Shock has seen play when Lightning Bolt hasn't been an option. Syncopate may not be as good as Mana Leak, but if it's the best option availible for an otherwise viable archetype, it'll see play and people will praise how effective it is.
I hate how people saying Syncopate is "great" late-game in this thread. have they not heard of Dissipate? It's only decent on turns 2-4 if they're not playing mana dorks. All the good blue decks (i.e. Delver and Solar falre) t even do draw-go anymore. They rather drop their big early turn threats or wrath the board then sit there while you drop 5-6 creatures in 4 turns.
The "best" option is not the same thing as a "viable" option.
Ture, but you can not back up the viability of Syncopate with statements like 'the format is too fast for it' when a) it's just as fast as Mana Leak, Remand, and a bunch of other playable counters (and will often be as effective) and b) there's not even a format defined to compare its relative speed too! Funnily enough I bet lots of people would have oved having Syncopate around as an option for the last few months, since it's effective against a number of the powerful graveyard-based strategies at all points in the game.
If you honestly do not think Syncopate is playable in Standard, well, enjoy your ivory tower. Professional Magic players (who actually consider the potential of a card in the context of its format and evaluate a card on what it can do, not what other cards could have done) will play the card if there is a strategy that wants that type of effect. And if there's not, it won't be because they did not make a good enough counter spell, because likely any printable counter spell wouldn't be good enough.
I, for one, do not expect the latter to be the case. Delver and Snapcaster aren't going anywhere, and Syncopate fits in perfectly as a potential replacement for a needed counter, and is especially good at beating cards that Delver could, otherwise, have a difficult time with (namely Geralf's Messenger).
The very argument you are raging about, that Magic is becoming 'dumbed down' and all people do is attack with creatures, actually supports Syncopate being a better card. More and more players are tapping out during their turns to land big, board dominating threats (be they Creatures and/or Planeswalkers), meaning most of the time Syncopate is going to effective as a 2 mana Force Spike with an added bonus, and the rest of the time it'll be better than Mana Leak because you can make use of it past the 5th or 6th turns of the game. This is part of the reason why counters are getting weaker internally; the direction Magic is going makes them more powerful in the context of the Standard format, so even a moderately good counter like Syncopate becomes far more effective.
The only other reasonable approach to what they are doing with counter magic is to expand it outside of Blue, to allow the stack to become a more interactive space with more colors than just Blue and Red (since Red does have a small but noticeable share of abilities that work with the stack) but since giving more counter magic to other colors would likely turn more players away from the game, reducing the amount of interaction with the stack in general is a better way to go.
I've been playing Magic since Revised, and they've done a great job in the last decade of noticeably improving the game at every level. This attitude amongst Blue players/control players/people who want Magic to be a means for them to demonstrate their obvious mental superiority does no good for the game in any discernable way, and I for one will be glad to see it gone.
And if you're really not getting, just imagine what Magic would be like if the Black players were as such an annoyingly vocal minority and Wizards caved to them; if you ever tried playing counters in an age of Hymn to Tourachs, well, you'll have a better understanding of how much worse Magic is, as a game, when it's no longer fun.
I hate how people saying Syncopate is "great" late-game in this thread. have they not heard of Dissipate? It's only decent on turns 2-4 if they're not playing mana dorks. All the good blue decks (i.e. Delver and Solar falre) t even do draw-go anymore. They rather drop their big early turn threats or wrath the board then sit there while you drop 5-6 creatures in 4 turns.
Dissipate is a good card, don't get me wrong, and I am not advocating that people only play Syncopate or play it above any other counter spell; but for the sake of arguing with people who think Magic is over because they can not cast Mana Leak, Syncopate is a more versatile answer (since it can be cast just as early as Mana Leak, generally to the same effect) and in the late game, yes, Dissipate is more efficient, but Syncopate is no less likely to be effective because you can scale.
What something costs is always weighed by the rewards you reap from it. If you Syncopate for 7 in order to stop your opponent from resolving a late game, topdecked Brimstone Volley that is going to lose you the game, 8 mana for that counter spell is entirely worth it.
Wow, so personal opinions bother you huh? ya mad bro?
Yes, even at a 5 card cycle, considering what they do, it seems excessive to me. live with it.:crying:
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Ture, but you can not back up the viability of Syncopate with statements like 'the format is too fast for it' when a) it's just as fast as Mana Leak, Remand, and a bunch of other playable counters (and will often be as effective) and b) there's not even a format defined to compare its relative speed too! Funnily enough I bet lots of people would have oved having Syncopate around as an option for the last few months, since it's effective against a number of the powerful graveyard-based strategies at all points in the game.
If you honestly do not think Syncopate is playable in Standard, well, enjoy your ivory tower. Professional Magic players (who actually consider the potential of a card in the context of its format and evaluate a card on what it can do, not what other cards could have done) will play the card if there is a strategy that wants that type of effect. And if there's not, it won't be because they did not make a good enough counter spell, because likely any printable counter spell wouldn't be good enough.
I, for one, do not expect the latter to be the case. Delver and Snapcaster aren't going anywhere, and Syncopate fits in perfectly as a potential replacement for a needed counter, and is especially good at beating cards that Delver could, otherwise, have a difficult time with (namely Geralf's Messenger).
The very argument you are raging about, that Magic is becoming 'dumbed down' and all people do is attack with creatures, actually supports Syncopate being a better card. More and more players are tapping out during their turns to land big, board dominating threats (be they Creatures and/or Planeswalkers), meaning most of the time Syncopate is going to effective as a 2 mana Force Spike with an added bonus, and the rest of the time it'll be better than Mana Leak because you can make use of it past the 5th or 6th turns of the game. This is part of the reason why counters are getting weaker internally; the direction Magic is going makes them more powerful in the context of the Standard format, so even a moderately good counter like Syncopate becomes far more effective.
The only other reasonable approach to what they are doing with counter magic is to expand it outside of Blue, to allow the stack to become a more interactive space with more colors than just Blue and Red (since Red does have a small but noticeable share of abilities that work with the stack) but since giving more counter magic to other colors would likely turn more players away from the game, reducing the amount of interaction with the stack in general is a better way to go.
I've been playing Magic since Revised, and they've done a great job in the last decade of noticeably improving the game at every level. This attitude amongst Blue players/control players/people who want Magic to be a means for them to demonstrate their obvious mental superiority does no good for the game in any discernable way, and I for one will be glad to see it gone.
And if you're really not getting, just imagine what Magic would be like if the Black players were as such an annoyingly vocal minority and Wizards caved to them; if you ever tried playing counters in an age of Hymn to Tourachs, well, you'll have a better understanding of how much worse Magic is, as a game, when it's no longer fun.
Well said. Personally, I think the new "Power Sink" is a great counter. It's not a dead draw late game like Leak is most of the time. I too have been playing since Revised and I think the game is fine. Sure, I'd like more archetypes to be viable but all in all, WotC is doing what it feels is best to appease the vocal majority without whom there would be no game.
I dare say neither of those would actually see play in Standard at this point.
Well, Mana Drain might but solely because the mana boost would allow you to play a big threat earlier than the other guy.
Creatures are simply too good for countermagic to be viable.
Dissipate is a quite good spell but it's not played because it's too slow to be relevant. Even if we had good old Counterspell available now it wouldn't be played either.
The only deck that could really use it is Delver and for that deck Mana Leak is still better. And Delver has already started moving Mana Leak to the sideboard.
I experienced this firsthand when I built a MBC deck post M13.
It worked decently, though I noticed that the more control cards I boarded out in favor of beaters the better the deck became. In the end I scrapped the whole control idea and went mono-black beats instead.
It played much better.
The current meta is simply hostile to spells, pretty much regardless of their power level, on account of creatures being too good.
When you're right you're right. It is absolutely easier to deal with the other player's threats by putting in more of your own, which is why we have the standard that we have today.
Syncopate's still garbage.
Smiter is Watchwolf 90% of the time, but I still like it because I enjoy those colours and I enjoy efficient creatures that mess with blue and/or black
This thread makes me lol. All the blue "control" whiners saying blue is dying, even though they get a good counterspell. On top of that, there are plenty of ways to play control. Go QQ more.
For the record; just because Wizards prints a few power creeps doesn't mean control is dead. Tell me all about how SCM isn't an undercosted CMC card.
Anyways, love the Smiter and the return of Syncopate.
Seeing as blue had just lost Rune Snag, Delay, Mana Leak, and a slew of other situational counters, Broken Ambitions was one of the only options worth running that countered most spells. The only other real options were Cryptic Command, which cost 4, and Cancel/Faerie Trickery which just weren't good enough compared to all the turn two counters.
Broken Ambitions wasn't actually that good of a card, and neither is Syncopate. The only reason it would see play is if no other good counterspells are printed in the set -which, in all honesty, is actually somewhat likely. Wizards has decided to stop supporting its real playerbase as of late in favor of catering to children.
Casual players are the ones paying wizards more money than tournament players ever will, its always been this way man, always. If you don't like that, you should stop buying cards now.
Wizards is scared of blue dominating the meta anyways because it HAS dominated the meta since Zen/Scars standard with Caw-Blade, AND now with WU Delver, not to mention Delver melded the meta into a speed fest due to how fast it could be come a 3/2.
Standard is still going to be a speed fest due to Overload, Abrupt Decay, Radkos spells, Golgari nonsense, etc.
As for the two cards, Syncopate is too slow to see play in anything other than limited. Smiter is legit as **** though, because it can be splashed in any sideboard, including the Jund Sideboard. Its also a 4/4 for 3 mana which is insane in itself.
How is Syncopate slow? Syncopate is great in the first 2-3 turns when your opponent has tapped out, in that scenario is nearly as good as Mana Leak. When your opponent has as much mana as you, then it becomes useless.
Syncopate's still garbage.
Smiter is Watchwolf 90% of the time, but I still like it because I enjoy those colours and I enjoy efficient creatures that mess with blue and/or black
Care to provide any factual evidence that demonstrates that Syncopate is garbage, or is your own opinion without any notion of what the new Standard format is going to be like so rock solid that I could also ask you for next week's lottery numbers?
Care to provide any factual evidence that demonstrates that Syncopate is garbage, or is your own opinion without any notion of what the new Standard format is going to be like so rock solid that I could also ask you for next week's lottery numbers?
Rancored Elf has demonstrated the clarity of his judgment in the past *cough* *cough*
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Rancored Elf has demonstrated the clarity of his judgment in the past *cough* *cough*
It must be awesome to have played the new format extensively enough to comment on a card's viability in it when we've seen less than half of the new set.
Guys have you forgotten about Broken Ambitions way back during the days of Lorwyn and how widely it was used along with Cryptic Command in 5cc and UB Faeries
Broken Ambitions and Syncopate follow similar roles with control decks.
I'll just say this: if you take the counter magic out of this game, then you might as well just call it duel masters. And I for one cringe at the thought.
"At first it required twelve feet. Then, but six. Now, only two."
What is "it"?
how close blue players are getting to the edge?
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I fear I won't have much time to play Magic these days.
I get to watch worlds develop around me.
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
That's just a poor argument, revered film critics like Ebert aren't directors and their opinions are held in very high regard. You don't have to be a master chef to say your food tastes bad, a master architect to see that your house is falling over, or an interior desiner to see your room looks like crap. It is the opinions of the people in this thread (and mine included) that this art is bleh, especially in comparison to the other pieces we've seen so far.
The art might not be to your liking, that doesnt make that art crap....
Its skillfull art, and thus its never crap, just because in your opinion it doesnt look great compared to other art, doesnt make it a piece of crappy art.....
Any true artist wil let you know, that there is no such thing as bad art... and anything artistic, original and selfmade is true art... wether you like it or not....
I hate how people saying Syncopate is "great" late-game in this thread. have they not heard of Dissipate? It's only decent on turns 2-4 if they're not playing mana dorks. All the good blue decks (i.e. Delver and Solar falre) t even do draw-go anymore. They rather drop their big early turn threats or wrath the board then sit there while you drop 5-6 creatures in 4 turns.
2.) Syncopate is like a more fair yet still splashable mana leak/dissipate. I like it.
Ture, but you can not back up the viability of Syncopate with statements like 'the format is too fast for it' when a) it's just as fast as Mana Leak, Remand, and a bunch of other playable counters (and will often be as effective) and b) there's not even a format defined to compare its relative speed too! Funnily enough I bet lots of people would have oved having Syncopate around as an option for the last few months, since it's effective against a number of the powerful graveyard-based strategies at all points in the game.
If you honestly do not think Syncopate is playable in Standard, well, enjoy your ivory tower. Professional Magic players (who actually consider the potential of a card in the context of its format and evaluate a card on what it can do, not what other cards could have done) will play the card if there is a strategy that wants that type of effect. And if there's not, it won't be because they did not make a good enough counter spell, because likely any printable counter spell wouldn't be good enough.
I, for one, do not expect the latter to be the case. Delver and Snapcaster aren't going anywhere, and Syncopate fits in perfectly as a potential replacement for a needed counter, and is especially good at beating cards that Delver could, otherwise, have a difficult time with (namely Geralf's Messenger).
The very argument you are raging about, that Magic is becoming 'dumbed down' and all people do is attack with creatures, actually supports Syncopate being a better card. More and more players are tapping out during their turns to land big, board dominating threats (be they Creatures and/or Planeswalkers), meaning most of the time Syncopate is going to effective as a 2 mana Force Spike with an added bonus, and the rest of the time it'll be better than Mana Leak because you can make use of it past the 5th or 6th turns of the game. This is part of the reason why counters are getting weaker internally; the direction Magic is going makes them more powerful in the context of the Standard format, so even a moderately good counter like Syncopate becomes far more effective.
The only other reasonable approach to what they are doing with counter magic is to expand it outside of Blue, to allow the stack to become a more interactive space with more colors than just Blue and Red (since Red does have a small but noticeable share of abilities that work with the stack) but since giving more counter magic to other colors would likely turn more players away from the game, reducing the amount of interaction with the stack in general is a better way to go.
I've been playing Magic since Revised, and they've done a great job in the last decade of noticeably improving the game at every level. This attitude amongst Blue players/control players/people who want Magic to be a means for them to demonstrate their obvious mental superiority does no good for the game in any discernable way, and I for one will be glad to see it gone.
And if you're really not getting, just imagine what Magic would be like if the Black players were as such an annoyingly vocal minority and Wizards caved to them; if you ever tried playing counters in an age of Hymn to Tourachs, well, you'll have a better understanding of how much worse Magic is, as a game, when it's no longer fun.
Dissipate is a good card, don't get me wrong, and I am not advocating that people only play Syncopate or play it above any other counter spell; but for the sake of arguing with people who think Magic is over because they can not cast Mana Leak, Syncopate is a more versatile answer (since it can be cast just as early as Mana Leak, generally to the same effect) and in the late game, yes, Dissipate is more efficient, but Syncopate is no less likely to be effective because you can scale.
What something costs is always weighed by the rewards you reap from it. If you Syncopate for 7 in order to stop your opponent from resolving a late game, topdecked Brimstone Volley that is going to lose you the game, 8 mana for that counter spell is entirely worth it.
Wow, so personal opinions bother you huh? ya mad bro?
Yes, even at a 5 card cycle, considering what they do, it seems excessive to me. live with it.:crying:
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Well said. Personally, I think the new "Power Sink" is a great counter. It's not a dead draw late game like Leak is most of the time. I too have been playing since Revised and I think the game is fine. Sure, I'd like more archetypes to be viable but all in all, WotC is doing what it feels is best to appease the vocal majority without whom there would be no game.
When you're right you're right. It is absolutely easier to deal with the other player's threats by putting in more of your own, which is why we have the standard that we have today.
For better or worse.
Smiter is Watchwolf 90% of the time, but I still like it because I enjoy those colours and I enjoy efficient creatures that mess with blue and/or black
For the record; just because Wizards prints a few power creeps doesn't mean control is dead. Tell me all about how SCM isn't an undercosted CMC card.
Anyways, love the Smiter and the return of Syncopate.
Casual players are the ones paying wizards more money than tournament players ever will, its always been this way man, always. If you don't like that, you should stop buying cards now.
Wizards is scared of blue dominating the meta anyways because it HAS dominated the meta since Zen/Scars standard with Caw-Blade, AND now with WU Delver, not to mention Delver melded the meta into a speed fest due to how fast it could be come a 3/2.
Standard is still going to be a speed fest due to Overload, Abrupt Decay, Radkos spells, Golgari nonsense, etc.
As for the two cards, Syncopate is too slow to see play in anything other than limited. Smiter is legit as **** though, because it can be splashed in any sideboard, including the Jund Sideboard. Its also a 4/4 for 3 mana which is insane in itself.
Care to provide any factual evidence that demonstrates that Syncopate is garbage, or is your own opinion without any notion of what the new Standard format is going to be like so rock solid that I could also ask you for next week's lottery numbers?
Rancored Elf has demonstrated the clarity of his judgment in the past *cough* *cough*
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It must be awesome to have played the new format extensively enough to comment on a card's viability in it when we've seen less than half of the new set.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Broken Ambitions and Syncopate follow similar roles with control decks.
UR Murktide
Pauper
RW Monarch
UW Caw-Gate
UBR Affinity
to me she looks like she's doing the "oh no you di-in't" hand + index finger wave or something.
Or like after Mutombo blocks
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
"At first it required twelve feet. Then, but six. Now, only two."
What is "it"?
how close blue players are getting to the edge?
I get to watch great leaders, terrible oppressors, and trend setters rise and fall.
Limited, Standard, Modern, everything is a different playing field I feel I can observe, but will not actually touch.
I look forward to the stories I will hear.
And more so to the ones I will watch unfold first hand.
Isn't the unknown exciting?
Hawt D:
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Misbehavin':
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True art.
Standard: W/R Aggro